Andre: You make drug problems sound simplistic. They are not. And I think you know what he meant, no matter if she "brought it upon hersels" the people taking delight in the death of others make me feel sick right now. I'm not saying you are one of them, but one still seems a bit like an over-intellectual five-year-old when putting it that way in which you did.

@Andre,

I was bewildered by the apparent callousness of some of the comments I'd seen, bordering on the vindictive - the 'I have no sympathy and don't care, she was an addict' type of thing. In some cases from people I had some respect for. Touched a raw nerve.

Callousness more like fact. Maybe Andre and others aren't treating it with the kid glove that her fans would appreciate.
The only reason 99% know her was a song about refusing to get help and living with the consequences and these are the consequences. When you don't care other people tend not to care.

And I think the reason I've seen more from people about this than Norway is that people feel personally touched by music, but unless they know someone in Norway, there's a slight sense of detachment from the event.

I think there's a disconnect here in that it's hard for many people to conceptualize that someone indulging in all manner of excessive drug use may actually not enjoying themselves on the way down. A woman who completely reduces herself like that is living a tortuous existence.

Those who’ve never struggled with drug dependency themselves, or loved anybody who has, will often dismiss the props more empathetic folks extend to the ex-junkie with caustic bon mots along the lines of “So he/she quit drugs? Big deal. Why celebrate someone for finally exhibiting common sense? They didn’t have to get hooked in the first place. It’s not like someone held a gun to their head and told them to try drugs.” Oftentimes, these are the same people who think being gay is a choice, too.

But in the case of drug abusers, not every addict has the luxury of choosing a glamorous existence of despair, lies, theft and self-loathing. Some people are born genetically predisposed to chasing the dragon.

Let's be honest, drugs work and work damn well for stoping pain. Short term and there'll be hell to pay in side effects, but that's not the point.

I wonder if seeking fame/money is itself an attempt for some to banish their own personal demons? I imagine it must feel incredibly shitty to put in the work to become famous and then find out that it doesn't fix anything.

Your cigarette smoking allegory is not really appropriate or equivalent in this discussion. That's like saying you have a choice to be depressed, because if you wanted to, there is nothing keeping you from walking outside and being social with the world and smiling at children.

And addiction is no different.

It's not about wanting. It's not about choices. It's about constantly clamoring forward and still just sinking deeper in.

Was clinical depression the root of her doing drugs? An attempt at coping?

If it didn't ALSO include disposition then everyone who ever drank a beer or tried a puff would be screwed. Only a fraction of people who try a drug get addicted - the size of the fraction depends on the insidiousness of the drug, it's true, but the point is not everyone gets hooked. And when you're partying and you see other people try it and walk away unscathed rolling the dice doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

You're making it sound like if only Amy Winehouse had just said "no" the very first time, like Nancy Reagan said to, it all would have been hunky dorry. That's a stunning lack of appreciation for the pervasiveness of drugs, the monstrously desperate mentality that seeks any release from the demands of life and finally how completely drug addiction overwrites someone's mind and motives. By the time a drug addict is really in the throes of addiction every single action and choice is made to support their addiction, period. Choice is an illusion for anyone who can't think past getting her next fix.

I think this is the first thread I've seen where Andre was actually unpopular.

And that's it, really. To be quite a few addicts, not all, but quite a few, don't even think there's a problem and I think Winehouse was of that mentality.

Sort of like how you were still willing to take a puff of that cigarette, knowing that your family all smokes. Your ability to go to bed that night and not be a raging smoker (while patting yourself on the back for acknowledging that your throat felt scratchy and was therefore the cons outweighted the pros) does NOT mean that you have uncovered and thus now understand the genetic predisposition of addiction, and what it's like to be tempted to stick a toe in the water of substance abuse. Knowing that it causes cancer and that your family all smokes, well, you tried it anyway, didn't you?

Like as in depression, the brain stops being able to feel enjoyment - that is, UNLESS the substance at hand is administered.

Do you mean is it more helpful to understand where you're coming from in the context of this conversation, or is it a more helpful attitude to take with people who are addicts?

I base my insistence that depression and drug addiction are similar based on my understanding of neuro chemistry. Many illegal drugs affect dopamine levels, the chemical that is associated with feelings of reward and pleasure, either increasing dopamine, making it linger or creating a synthetic effect. Chemical addiction physically changes the structure of the brain to a point where events that once made a person happy don't anymore (including the usual doses of drugs, prompting increased use for the same effect). With lower than usual dopamine levels - which may now be crippled for life - a person is subject to a psychological state called anhedonia. Very little feels at all pleasurable. Food that used to be delicious loses its taste, playing around loses its luster, creativity loses its drive...etc. And only annoyances really spark life in a person. I know that feeling all too well. If I never lose another month only feeling alive when I was angry and otherwise expending energy on trying to smile and care about ordinary things, it'll be too soon.

Hence I don't think it's fair to give no weight to the fact that addiction is a disease.