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      CommentAuthorPupato
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2011
     (10239.1)
    @LokiZero, & i´m just saying you´re speaking about nothing
  1.  (10239.2)
    Alright kids, I smell eels. We need to police ourselves a bit here.
    •  
      CommentAuthorPupato
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2011
     (10239.3)
    ok, gov, you´re right, thanks : )
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      CommentAuthorLokiZero
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2011
     (10239.4)
    @government spy sorry. no more troll feeding.
  2.  (10239.5)
    ... and that's what I love about this place.
  3.  (10239.6)
    @BrianMowrey: Thanks for bringing up the population comparisons. I was thinking much of the same stuff, but it's hard for me to not get ranty when talking about those things (it's related to one of my biggest pet peeves in terms of misconceptions about non-western countries).
    • CommentAuthorKosmopolit
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2011
     (10239.7)
    See if the OWS people are saying "Our grievances are as serious as those of the Arab spring protesters" they're being absurd but if they're saying "We're inspired by the Arab spring protests who are taking action in the face of far greater danger than we could imagine" that's fair enough.
    • CommentAuthorFlabyo
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2011
     (10239.8)
    So there are states in the US where prisoners are allowed to vote? Interesting. The EU says all felons should vote. The UK is very much against that, anyone in jail here is barred from voting and always has been.

    There's no doubt that this is an interesting movement, but I don't think it counts as global if noone in Russia, China or Japan seems interested in joining in. It's very much a 'western' protest movement at the moment. And even then, the actual grievances being protested are not common across all the countries.

    In Italy it's about government corruption, they have one of the worst in the EU. In Belgium they'd just like to *have* a government, they've failed to form any kind of parliament since the elections 18 months ago. The Greeks just want to know where all their money went. The Germans don't understand why they should pay for Greece's problems. The British want to show solidarity with the Americans, but their situation isn't as bad as the colonials. And so on.

    It's interesting from a sociology point of view, but can it last in the face of the coming winter? It's not going to be much fun camping in tents outside St. Pauls once it drops below freezing overnight.
  4.  (10239.9)
    Prisoners can vote here in the Feds until they've been convicted. Innocent until proven guilty actually matters when it comes to voting in prison. Now, I've seen them vote here; I've seen the ballots, but I don't know who is responsible for getting them from the prison to the voting commission.

    This seems to answer some questions better than I could.
  5.  (10239.10)
    I don't know whether this should go here or in the Informus thread, I'm hoping it's appropriate here (please tell me if it isn't): Thirteen Observations made by Lemony Snicket while watching Occupy Wall Street from a Discreet Distance

    Incidentally, this thread is awesome, both in its informativeness and its politeness.
    • CommentAuthorKosmopolit
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2011
     (10239.11)
    There's no doubt that this is an interesting movement, but I don't think it counts as global if noone in Russia, China or Japan seems interested in joining in. It's very much a 'western' protest movement at the moment. And even then, the actual grievances being protested are not common across all the countries.

    In Italy it's about government corruption, they have one of the worst in the EU. In Belgium they'd just like to *have* a government, they've failed to form any kind of parliament since the elections 18 months ago. The Greeks just want to know where all their money went. The Germans don't understand why they should pay for Greece's problems. The British want to show solidarity with the Americans, but their situation isn't as bad as the colonials. And so on.


    And here in Australia they really don't seem to be sure what they're doing other than showing solidarity with the people protesting in Europe and the US.

    Occupy Sydney lost most of its participants Sunday because they had to get ready for work on Monday.
    • CommentAuthorOddcult
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2011
     (10239.12)
    "Anon insisting on wearing their V masks means there's now a section 66aa in place in London which empowers the police to force people to remove masks (and hoodies, bandanas, anything else they're using to conceal their faces)."


    Sauce? That should be challengable if they're claiming Anon constitutes a terrorist threat now. But let's face it, they were always going to slap a section 60 on this one. And it doesn't mean you're not allowed to wear a mask or face covering, it means a policeman can ask you to remove it for the purposes of checking your identity. Which you don't have to provide unless arrested.
    • CommentAuthorVerissimus
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2011 edited
     (10239.13)
    There are some things that make the Occupy protests in Western countries similar to the protest in the Middle East but there are also huge differences. I'd say they are similar in that they are a sign of dissatisfaction with the regular political process and the behavior of politicians or the rich "upper layers" of society. They are also both a consequence of the economic downturns that we've seen. They are dissimilar in that the scale of the abuse of power, the repression, and the suffering of the population is much greater in the Middle East.
  6.  (10239.14)
    I don't think it's a contest in terms of who is suffering more. The differences in the protests in the middle east, the protests in the US and the riots in the UK is clear to anyone with half a brain. What interests me far more is what connects them. I see them as slightly differing symptoms of the same malaise, which is: Globalisation + Corporate Capitalism = Massive Underclass.

    I hope and pray that OWS and their like will stimulate conversation amongst all members of society. Once everyone is aware that there is a problem and is talking about it, we will be on the path to finding a solution.

  7.  (10239.15)
    @Oddcult, according to the FBI Domestic Terrorist Awareness Handbook, which I have a copy of, it's available /somewhere/ on the internet because it was leaked. Anon is actually listed as a domestic terrorist threat. Along with a number of other groups, like, um, "fringe" media, as in, any news source that is not considered mainstream. So yeah, it's ridiculous, but they have a whole profile and a few pages dedicated to them.
    • CommentAuthorFlabyo
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2011
     (10239.16)
    Every activist group gets a secret service profile in the UK. If you're not watching them, how can you tell when they've gone bad? (yes, I know, but we're more used to being surveiled all the time over here)
  8.  (10239.17)
    • CommentAuthorVerissimus
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2011 edited
     (10239.18)
    There's something iffy with that. He says:
    I don’t know what the voting behavior is of all these people, but I'm a little bit unhappy when people didn't vote last time blame me for the consequences of their not voting.


    So he's blaming people of not voting while admitting he doesn't know if they voted or not. That's all wrong.

    Another thing is where he says
    ...we had an election last year in which people who disagree with them, and disagree with me and with you, got elected.


    While that may be true, it's not like the other guys achieved very much that might have assuaged the protestors dissatisfaction before that election. So he's creating a false dichotomy between Republicans and Democrats there, and what he's really saying is "they are against you, but we're with you. Vote for us and all your problems will be solved." While most of the protestors actually have very real issues with both the Democrats and the Republicans.
  9.  (10239.19)
    Yeah, I suspect the vast majority of those occupying wall street did vote democrat and Obama in particular. Has Washington filed any charges against the fraudsters that caused the economy to collapse? Did the bailouts stop them from foreclosing on peoples homes? Or was it just billions of dollars of free public money in their pockets because they cried poor? Are the super rich treated the same as anybody else when it comes to the law or are they above it?

    I could be wrong, but I'm guessing the general feeling is it doesn't matter who the fuck gets elected, the democratic system is rigged. They already did vote for and elect a left wing democrat president and what does it get them? The super rich are what feeds the politicians in both parties (and control the media to keep them in line) and nobody is going to bite the hand that feeds them (and can destroy them). It appears they can do whatever they want and are untouchable.

    I'm not sure what Occupy Wall street can do about it, but they are voicing their displeasure.
  10.  (10239.20)
    Look, you get the democracy you deserve. Liberals and moderates haven't been involved in the democratic process much since the 70s and have allowed things to fall into the hands of the far right. Voting numbers bear this out. Only the far right go vote.

    Politicians are cowards.They will take on whatever position they need to in order to stay in power. Do you really think Mittens, or Perry believe half the bullshit they've been spouting? Not at all. They're trying to make the FoxNews-loving far right lunatics happy when they say they'll electrocute illegal immigrants. And they know, that since most of the 99% do not fucking vote at any level of government because "Obama, I am disappoint", they turn to Wall Street and the Koch Brothers because the voters have abandoned their duty to keep them in line. Yeah, those pieces of shit at "I'm the 53%" and that piece of shit Herman Cain are absolutely wrong about the reasons, but at the core they are right: It's the 99%'s fault. They let the bad members of society take control and those guys gleefully proceeded to fuck over everyone.

    America isn't much of a democracy. It's stuck with two parties. That's one party away from communist China. But one party is openly working against the 99%. The other is dragging it's feet, but it is not actively working against their interests. Do you understand what he's saying now? You vote for your interests even if that means you need to hold your nose. Democracy goes to the people who show up on election day. That is flat out the bottom line.

    The far right play long term and they play for keeps. Barney Frank knows this. He's trying to tell you that you can beat them at their own game.

    The protests will mean nothing, otherwise.

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