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      CommentAuthorDoc Ocassi
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2011
     (10239.141)
    Yes that does sound more reasonable.

    It was probably the fact that the individual ego was being incorporated into the group that I was referring to as the taming of the ego, but specifically meaning the in individual ego being somewhat lost.

    I don't think it helps against invasion but it may help in terms of stopping consolidation of power and co-option. The original reason would seem to be to deflect culpability.
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      CommentAuthorArtenshiur
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2011
     (10239.142)
    Having just been to a session of the New York City General Assembly (the OWS deliberational body, that is to say, everybody who shows up), I am incredibly impressed by their organizational structure. The establishment of the working groups is not the arrival of leadership, I don't think, and concerns about leadership may be misplaced. While there are people who are more influential than others, the structure of the thing quite actively prevents anyone from taking control. It is very horizontal direct democracy.

    The dialogue going on there is remarkably in-depth, and surprisingly positive. All voices are heard. The problem with such discussions is that their meaning and purpose can not be easily summarized. I certainly can't answer in a sentence or two what OWS is about. But engaging in discussions like this one, about what it's about, seems to be how it's spreading.
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      CommentAuthorNygaard
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2011
     (10239.143)
    Interesting to watch the decision making process in action. Tea partiers have been sharing a clip of the Atlanta occupiers deciding not to let congressman John Lewis give a speech during the general assembly (apparently, he was free to speak afterwards, but had to leave due to his schedule; watching the clammy Teabagger outrage on behalf of a black democrat civil rights movement hero is kind of cute). Not sure I understand everything that's going on here. But Lewis himself does not seem to mind.
    • CommentAuthorFlabyo
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2011 edited
     (10239.144)
    Well, they're going to have a crack at it in London.

    Best of luck to them, but the British public seem to not be in the mood for this kind of anarchic sit-in protest after the riots earlier this year, still too raw in the minds of a lot of Londoners. And the City of London is a much harder place to 'occupy', it's a real sprawl over a pretty large area. And we're due a *really* cold end to autumn again if they manage to stick it out until mid November. The police won't be keen on it either, last time there were protestors down in the City it turned pretty ugly, and after the riots the public sympathy might well be more with the coppers than it would normally be.

    (Most protests here tend to be small and pre-organised with police permission, there was a pretty good one today about NHS cuts that went off with no issues as far as I can tell)
    • CommentAuthorStefanJ
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2011
     (10239.145)
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      CommentAuthorDoc Ocassi
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2011
     (10239.146)
  1.  (10239.147)


    This guy gets it.
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      CommentAuthorAlan Tyson
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2011 edited
     (10239.148)
    Tweets are rolling in of police raiding Occupy Boston and Occupy Seattle. Boston movement has been hit hard, clubs have reportedly come out, and anyone with a camera, so the police have said, is in danger of being arrested. Seattle mayor's office has apparently sent a legal team to call off the PD, no word yet on how effective it's being. There was talk of Atlanta being raided as well, but now it's looking like that was a false alarm.

    Bad night. Have to wonder what set things off.

    Edit: Sorry I don't have any hard links for this stuff, I'm getting most of it off twitter and a few Livestreams at the sites.

    Edit 2: Best I can do at the moment - Boston police making their first arrests, members of Veterans for Peace among them.
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      CommentAuthoroddbill
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2011
     (10239.149)
    Here's a Thinkprogress summary of the arrests in Boston along with video.

    It literally shows Boston police arresting people who are standing still and shouting "we are veterans of the United States of America". The police, in arresting them cause their flags to be dropped to the ground. Among the Veterans for Peace flags are also at least one American flag. Following that, and what looks like the police pushing a man down, are widespread shouts of "shame! shame!"

    Video of police arresting non-resisting armed services veterans while allowing an American flag to lay on the ground and be walked is going to play on a lot of newscasts tomorrow, I suspect.
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      CommentAuthorPupato
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2011 edited
     (10239.150)
    #15oct events all over the world

    There are events planned in 670 cities in 69 countries already!

    united for global change



    ,,,
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      CommentAuthorPupato
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2011 edited
     (10239.151)
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      CommentAuthorPupato
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2011 edited
     (10239.152)
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      CommentAuthorAlan Tyson
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2011
     (10239.153)
    Tactical Image Consultants

    A group of tailors, barbers, and other fine people are planning to transform as many Occupiers into sharp-looking dudes y duderinas on October 15. I believe this topic was discussed earlier in the thread?
    • CommentAuthorRenThing
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2011 edited
     (10239.154)
  2.  (10239.155)
    I certainly can't answer in a sentence or two what OWS is about.


    Herein lies the problem. I think that Occupy Wall Street is a fantastic idea in theory. But starting a protest without direction or a defined purpose is ultimately pointless. Not to mention it also gives free ammunition to the people that mock this kind of civil action in the first place.

    So far the main achievement of the occupation has been to take a valuable social tool with the power to create real & positive change and turn it into little more than an open public forum for civilised debate. Whilst an open forum for intelligent discussion is a wonderful thing, I can't escape the feeling that all the publicity being generated at the moment is just one, big, missed opportunity. For true changes to happen, whether they be to the regulation of the financial system, health care, or any one of a million other good causes, you need to come to the table with a solution, or at the very least an idea of how to practically effect a positive change.

    Video of police arresting non-resisting armed services veterans while allowing an American flag to lay on the ground and be walked is going to play on a lot of newscasts tomorrow, I suspect.


    This is another major issue - the desperate scrabble by the media to find images that 'define' what is happening. We are all aware of definitive images of the past century, but a definitive image devoid of a meaningful context is just a good picture.

    Truth be told, little is actually happening.

    These protests have been a brilliant display of the need for things to change. But this is a fact the vast majority of people have been well aware of for (at least) the past two decades. It has also highlighted the sad fact that, whilst everyone wants things to change for the better, no-one really has any idea of how to do it.

    Sound-bites and images can speak to those that want to listen, but without real, planned action and changes to legislation and social attitudes, they don't do a thing.

    I'm not a defeatist, or a cynic, but too many people seem to be turning up or organising their own protests just to feel like they're part of something significant. To those people all I have to say is:

    1. Go home and make a viable plan for changes to specific organisations or pieces of legislation; Changes that could be practically implemented using the existing systems.
    2. Come back and let's do this properly.

    That's how you change things. That's how you become part of something significant.

    Edited to add half a sentence that vanished
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      CommentAuthorNygaard
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2011 edited
     (10239.156)
    @RenThing - (I think it was) the Daily Show which pointed out that, the Boston Tea party was an actual felony, not just a misdemeanor or act of civil disobedience. :)
    • CommentAuthorFlabyo
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2011
     (10239.157)
    The chaps over at the Virtual Shackles webcomic summarise my own thoughts pretty well.

    And I appreciate that it's a simplification of the issues, and that it makes me a bad person etc...
    • CommentAuthorBankara
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2011
     (10239.158)
    I shot a portrait series last night in Zucotti Park. Going back today and as often as I can to do more.

    The Occupiers

    Shameless Plug
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      CommentAuthorArtenshiur
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2011
     (10239.159)
    @Mhengla: I can understand your skepticism, but I think using this public discussion to come up with that answer rather than "going home" to do so is really valuable, because once a purpose is found everyone is behind it. It's about doing the right thing, rather than just doing for the sake of doing. Having talked to visitors from Tahrir square at OWS, this is how what they did started. Everyone came out knowing they needed change, but not sure what kind, and then collectively they came to a conclusion. Now I don't think OWS will be bringing down governments, but my hope is that they will in fact come to a conclusion, and as a result of this deep discussion it will be a solid, important one.
  3.  (10239.160)
    Meanwhile, in Washington:

    Our Congress, Ladies and Gentlemen

    I don't understand why these protesters don't simply go through our long-established, efficient, reasonable political process to get their goals accomplished! It's almost like they think the system is a ridiculous mess or something.

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