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  1.  (1030.1)
    here's my logic: turn on the tv, see celebrities and wack musicians all doing some "Rock the vote" shit. "Why do they do that?" I ask myself. Obviously, it's important for dumb people to vote--- I mean, you don't call in celebrities or shitass arena rockers unless you want to reach dumbasses, and those same celebs don't risk saying anything remotely political unless it's REAL important. Why would it be REAL important for dumb people to vote?

    I'm not sure, but I don't think I'm going to have anything to do with it this year. I see all kinda new jack libs getting all riled to cheerlead for Obama and I can't see anything different between these people and the ones who were cheerleading for Bush eight years ago. I mean christ, they have same haircuts and most of the same clothes and everything, and they all either have bosses or are a boss and think nothing of structuring their entire lives around these bossy relationships. Maybe there's a few more faces of color in the crowd, but both sides have been stacking the deck whenever TV cameras are around for as long as I've been alive, so that doesn't really mean anything.

    Why doesn't anyone famous publically advocate not voting? The shit is obviously broken right down to the goddamn diebold ballotbots, why don't more voices with carry support a strategy of retracting the mandate until those slimy fucks shape up their act?
    •  
      CommentAuthorChrisSick
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008 edited
     (1030.2)
    You're advocating doing nothing to bring about change?

    Not the best plan, but since it requires nothing, it will have a lot of support from lazy people who can't be bothered to stand up.
  2.  (1030.3)
    Good stuff man. I even fell for it for a few minutes.



    p.s. This was a joke right?
    •  
      CommentAuthorBurch
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
     (1030.4)
    You realize that not voting is probably one of the worst things you can do. Sure your voice can be heard here, but why not speak up when it counts?
  3.  (1030.5)
    You realize that not voting is probably one of the worst things you can do. Sure your voice can be heard here, but why not speak up when it counts?


    Because this would mean being proactive and American Idol is on and I want to see who Simon is mean at this week.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBurch
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
     (1030.6)
    Because this would mean being proactive and American Idol is on and I want to see who Simon is mean at this week.


    I really hope it's the kid with the blond hair. I don't like him much.
    • CommentAuthorsacredchao
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
     (1030.7)
    Well, I don't know how famous they really are, but the punk band Propagandhi is anti-voting. There argument is basically that it's pointless and keeps the bullshit going by giving people faux-power over the political system, thus satiating their need for involvement, while allowing the fat cats to continue to fuck everyone who makes less then 6 figures.

    While I agree with this in principle, I still feel compelled to vote, even if I am a (basically disenfranchised) Green Party member. It may not be much, but it is my voice. My little peep in the midst of cacophony is better then nothing.
  4.  (1030.8)
    whoa whoa whoa cowboys. Not voting=doing nothing?

    Oh, oh-- I get it. You guys say that because you don't do anything for change except for voting.

    "Speak up when it counts"--- ya see that's very thing, the counting part.
  5.  (1030.9)
    It's not the best system, but what's the alternative? Seriously, what's the alternative?
    • CommentAuthorsacredchao
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
     (1030.10)
    It's not the best system, but what's the alternative? Seriously, what's the alternative?


    Runoffs, representation proportional to voter wishes (similar to Germany - if 2% of the people vote Green, 2% of the congress is green), ability to vote for favorite candidate, as well as second and third favorite. There are probably other possibilities as well.
  6.  (1030.11)
    Runoffs, representation proportional to voter wishes (similar to Germany - if 2% of the people vote Green, 2% of the congress is green), ability to vote for favorite candidate, as well as second and third favorite. There are probably other possibilities as well.


    These are really good alternatives. But I kind of meant for the entire voting system.

    But yeah, the American system of voting is in no way the best system.
    •  
      CommentAuthorVespers
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008 edited
     (1030.12)
    Assassinating politicians until only the ones you like are alive (I mean, it's kind of like voting, right? You're just 'voting' for only the ones you like to stay alive. Right? Right?)
  7.  (1030.13)
    Why doesn't anyone famous publically advocate not voting?

    Penn Jillette does and he speaks for and gets alot of attention from people. Course, by his own admission, he's a nut.

    His logic is that rather than vote for the lesser of two evils he'd rather vote for the perfect candidate. Which in his case is an anarcho-capitalist libertarian atheist. As he puts it "The only way you can waste your vote is by voting."

    Of course, this is complete and total horseshit.

    Waiting around for the perfect candidate means you're ignoring perfectly good candidates with whom you might only have slight or reasonable idealogical differences. It also gives more meaning to the vote of the chunderhead who likes to vote for people because they're good bible-believing Christians.

    I don't hold my nose and vote. I vote for third party candidates, write-ins and the people who most (but obviously not perfectly) speak for my issues best.

    The real issue isn't voting, it's the broken system of debates, campaign finance and general electoral bullying that give only two parties, any chance at getting into power.
    • CommentAuthorPhro
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
     (1030.14)
    vespers, i don't totally disagree with you. i think a sniper is a great way to show dissatisfaction with corrupt politicians. at least no human beings are dead.

    I whole-heartedly advocate the execution of fuck-heads who SELL OUT THEIR OWN FUCKING COUNTRY AND PEOPLE. fuck them.

    until EVERYONE starts shooting politicians. and then we have a civil war, blah, blah, blah.

    voting is actually the fairest, most peaceful way to change things, as long as everyone abides by certain rules. which is why constitutions are awesome.

    i do think america's voting system is dumbshit retarded. i am all for most of the alternatives. democracy is idiocy in numbers. (seriously, fuck direct democracy. it's basically mob rule. 51% of the people decide they don't like, and they mandate your DEATH.) a constitutional republic (which the united states is supposed to be) is a pretty good idea.

    but yah, a new voting system would be nice.

    but i doubt anyone who gets elected would think so...
  8.  (1030.15)
    When you vote (in the US) you also:

    Vote on local ordnances.
    Vote on very local representation. I don't even mean state I mean your neighborhood.
    Determine the unelected appointees to numerous regulatory positions.
    Impact the character of the Supreme Court and Federal courts nationally. (this is my favorite - it will not be very funny if we get another conservative on the Supreme Court).
    Do the same for local courts in your state.
    Influence lobby's and campaign focus next go around by showing your age range and demographic comes to the polls.
    Possibly get voter minimum percentages for third parties that result in public funding.
    Occasionally are one of the 500 votes which would have kept George W. Bush out of office.

    The idea that it is all about finding the perfect presidential candidate, taking the South Park/Penn and Teller route that if you do not like their of the presidential candidates you should not vote is nonsense. The idea that they are all the same in their position is a blatant untruth which I would think the last 8 years would have well exemplified. Orwell has it 100% right (as I notice he often does), hold your nose and vote for the candidate that best represents you. Or pick an issue or two that matters to you, vote because there are new laws being voted on that day, vote because the party you vote for will pick the judges you want - but vote.

    Nothing is won by staying home.
    •  
      CommentAuthorroque
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
     (1030.16)
    Jehovah's Witnesses don't vote. but they also don't tend to become famous.

    (pointless comment for a pointless thread)
  9.  (1030.17)
    JTraub:

    You're dead on about local issues.

    I live in a city and a state where it is literally a one-party system. The mayor will be in office until he decides to leave or dies, the Republican party on the state level is in shambles. They actually tried to run ALAN KEYES against Barack Obama back in 2004. Think on that. They might as well have run a large basket of fruit. We have graft and corruption that makes the machine days of Daley the First look like something out of Plato's Republic and a state government run by a man who refuses to live in the capitol and commutes across the state (2.5 hours) at tax payer expense daily.

    I hear people piss and moan about all this. I ask if they vote and when they say "No." I have to resist the urge to slap them very, very hard.

    Even with the Obama rockstar effect the turnout for the primary was something like 30% statewide. All those judges, local officials, prosecutors, state's attorneys will impact the lives of everyone in the state significantly, and people can't be assed to tap a touch screen once every two years to pick some decent ones?

    Apathy has fucked over this country good and proper.
  10.  (1030.18)
    Apathy has fucked over this country good and proper.


    Yup and I bristle anytime its repackaged as rebellion.
    •  
      CommentAuthorChrisSick
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2008
     (1030.19)
    Probably the scariest thing about how people don't vote is the fact that turn-out is always higher in a presidential election year.

    To the non-voters, think on it like this, you can piss and moan about the two party system all you want, and I wouldn't defend it, but you have representative that you vote for at every single level of government and you should consider for a second what do you think about more often, what the President of the United States is doing or what's happening right outside your front door and on your block? You may not be able to ever influence the policy of anyone in D.C. but if you try hard enough you can always get a council person on the phone. Politicians work like anything else, the more volume you apply to them the more willing they are to address your issues. And often, you can get a whole lot more accomplished at a local level than anywhere else.

    While you're busy complaining about how useless voting is GoodWill, tell me what exactly you're doing to change the things that are bothering you? I remember reading the news in '03 and seeing something like several hundred thousand people protest against the War in Iraq around the world, and guess what, we still went to war. Now it's five years later and people are turning out in record numbers to vote in primary elections and every single candidate on The Democratic side has vowed to end the occupation and come up with a new idea since the old ones aren't working. So you tell me which is the more effective model for change.
  11.  (1030.20)
    uh, and who counts all these so-very-noble votes? You talk like there's some reason to believe a crack team of honest men are involved. I've been under the impression that the state department has a voting machine contract with a wealthy corporation run by a large man who makes no secret of his interest in the success of one particular party.

    @Jtraub: "The idea that they are all the same in their position is a blatant untruth which I would think the last 8 years would have well exemplified"-- what does that mean? How exactly did the reign of Bush II prove anything at all positive about team donkey? It's meaningless conjecture to say they would have handled anything differently. Given how long dems were rolling over in the name of the War on Terror, I'm not at all convinced that other guy from the Skull & Bones would have written such a different story.

    Nobody's "packaging shit--- I'm saying I don't have any interest in participating in an obvious farce, and that this shouldn't be an unreasonable or uncommon position given the chicanery that's surrounded every election I've had the privilege to witness in my adult life.

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