Whitechapel - Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? Thu, 23 May 2013 22:29:07 -0700 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.1.4 & Feed Publisher Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317479#Comment_317479 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317479#Comment_317479 Fri, 02 Dec 2011 00:36:00 -0800 Vornaskotti
I'm not looking for trends and technologies here, so not stuff like the rise of e-books, mmorpgs going mainstream or the rise of reality TV, but single works of art and design (books, comics, fonts, movies, songs, games...), and to a certain extent people, who might be household names half a century into the future.

What's your take on this? Give me your list of stuff you think may endure the teeth of time. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317487#Comment_317487 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317487#Comment_317487 Fri, 02 Dec 2011 01:57:48 -0800 flecky Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317497#Comment_317497 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317497#Comment_317497 Fri, 02 Dec 2011 04:26:07 -0800 Finagle Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317499#Comment_317499 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317499#Comment_317499 Fri, 02 Dec 2011 05:02:12 -0800 Vornaskotti
Dude, Frisbee was invented in 1930's :P ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317507#Comment_317507 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317507#Comment_317507 Fri, 02 Dec 2011 06:52:22 -0800 phill_sea
System of a Down's "Toxicity" and TOOL's "Lateralus" are both rock albums from the early 2000's that (imiho) still hold up.

. . . can we count Transmetropolitan? Started in '97, sure, but went through '02! ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317508#Comment_317508 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317508#Comment_317508 Fri, 02 Dec 2011 06:57:20 -0800 taphead Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317519#Comment_317519 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317519#Comment_317519 Fri, 02 Dec 2011 08:16:04 -0800 Morac
For written works, the majority of the Harry Potter books were release in the last decade. I never finished the series, though, so I can't really speak to the longevity as well as someone else might. Should be present in the popular consciousness for at least 30 years, though. Maybe not 60.

Firefly's cult status is probably going to stick around for quite a while, I think.

Music is a tricky one, especially given the genre-explosion of the past decade. The previous grand palooka wrote a thing on this recently. More than sums up my views on that subject, but also outlines the trickiness of identifying a only a few songs as more influential or important than other songs. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317523#Comment_317523 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317523#Comment_317523 Fri, 02 Dec 2011 09:09:10 -0800 Flabyo
Grand Theft Auto will probably still be known about, maybe the Call of Duty series. Tetris will still be around as it's the universal law of gaming that Tetris will exist on every platform until the end of time.

Gaming's great moments that will be considered on a par with the great moments of film are still yet to happen, to my mind. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317527#Comment_317527 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317527#Comment_317527 Fri, 02 Dec 2011 09:44:16 -0800 Morac
I like to think that the timeline that video games are progressing along is closer to that of comic books than that of films. There were a number of great films pretty early on in the medium's life cycle, which may have something to do with the way film as an art form extended out of theater. Video games have very little existing context to evolve from, which is why I think many people don't view them as a legitimate art form yet. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317555#Comment_317555 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317555#Comment_317555 Fri, 02 Dec 2011 15:21:47 -0800 StefanJ
Most movies survive from around 1961, and there's no reason to burn the film stock, and in fact theoretically they're easier to get a hold of then they'd have been 25 years ago (pre-VHS), but even so no more than a tiny fraction of these films get actually watched. Have they "survived?"

Computer games will have a harder time getting "ported" than video or music. You can build emulators and adaptation layers and such, but it takes work, and folks may not care enough about such-and-such game to bother coming up with a Circa 2011 PC emulator to run them. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317559#Comment_317559 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317559#Comment_317559 Fri, 02 Dec 2011 15:55:28 -0800 Morac
In the context of this thread, though, I think that "survive" means "still has a presence in the collective consciousness" rather than the physical longevity of the item. For instance, I know there were a bunch of books written in the 1950s, but the vast majority of them have been lost to obscurity. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317561#Comment_317561 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317561#Comment_317561 Fri, 02 Dec 2011 16:02:08 -0800 JP Carpenter
And pretty much every design trend gets recycled every few years anyway, or at least heavily referenced. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317602#Comment_317602 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317602#Comment_317602 Sat, 03 Dec 2011 00:25:52 -0800 Vornaskotti
By "survive" I meant being present in the collective cultural consciousness - as in songs played in the radio, books and movies being known and referenced as classics, games... god knows how they will be remembered. So, not physical copies. Think the original Star Trek, Beatles, Prisoner, etc. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317628#Comment_317628 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317628#Comment_317628 Sat, 03 Dec 2011 09:43:01 -0800 curb
On one hand, I can see WALL-E standing up as well as say, Snow White. That's still being watched and enjoyed by kids today, and the 'Hi-Ho!' song is still referenced and recycled pretty frequently. I can see WALL-E being just as well loved. On the other hand, and at the risk of sounding like a doomsayer, viewers in 2060 might think themselves beyond ecological redemption, and therefore find WALL-E too naive to elicit any response other than a cynical yawn. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317644#Comment_317644 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317644#Comment_317644 Sat, 03 Dec 2011 12:22:25 -0800 oogliemooglie
My guess would be huge mainstream cultural phenomenons from the 90s like The Lion King (a smash as a movie AND on Broadway), Nirvana (hugely popular across most demographics), and Harry Potter (smash books and movies) will still be known.

The 2000s were weird musically, since the internet opened up so many niche options. I guess Top 40 stuff like the Foo FIghters and Lady Gaga might be played on throwback stations in the future. Avatar will probably have staying power due to its huge success around the world. The iphone might be remembered as the grand-daddy of whatever surgically-implanted electronic devices we're using then? ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317650#Comment_317650 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317650#Comment_317650 Sat, 03 Dec 2011 12:44:02 -0800 StefanJ
That . . . astonished me.
* * *
I think PIXAR films will be remembered, if not by everyone (not everyone remembers Disney's Snow White), then by connoisseurs. They are exactly the carefully, lovingly made work that would be remembered and sometimes watched by future generations.

Wall-E will probably look even better, and get more respect, in retrospect. Its profoundly anti-consumerist message was an odd fit for a Disney production. (There is no trace left of the utterly brilliant, sardonic buynlarge.com site . . . it goes to a Disney page.) If the environment truly goes to shit, Wall-E will get referenced when politicians and industry shills pull the "well, we could never have imagined . . ." line.

The not-really-made-from-krill cracker Soylent Green seems to have entered the lexicon, and is used by people who have never seen the film. Soylent Green is a shlock movie by most standards, and while we seem to have dodged the packed-jowl-to-jowl future it showed, there are some deeply dismaying things in that movie that may yet come true. The ocean ecosystem has died off, and the greenhouse effect has mired New York, at least, in a perpetual filthy hot summer. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317652#Comment_317652 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317652#Comment_317652 Sat, 03 Dec 2011 12:48:21 -0800 Beamish Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317662#Comment_317662 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317662#Comment_317662 Sat, 03 Dec 2011 14:40:37 -0800 Vornaskotti
Video games are a very interesting point here, mostly because it's a medium without history. You can pick up an old album and find an easy way to listen to it, but even games published in the 90's are a huge bother to get working straight from the shelf. Also, I kind of agree that the greatest moments of gaming are still ahead of us, since frankly - stories in games are still a little bit in the level of being "good for a game" or "almost as good as a movie". This applies to stuff like LA Noire, Heavy Rain, Bioshock etc., no matter how great their stories and atmosphere feel to a modern gamer. And this from a guy who's been an active gamer since the 80's and who values story and atmosphere in games very high.

Of course, game != story, so what gameplay elements might survive for half a century... I'd say Bejeweled is the new Tetris in that regard. You can dispute the nomination because match-three was hardly invented by PopCap in 2000, but Bejeweled became synonymous for that puzzle game type, lifted it to the radar of a surprisingly wide and diverse audience, and in its way perfected what it did.

From other games... I personally dislike mmorpgs, so it pains me to say that from the games of the last 10 years, WoW probably has the biggest amount of cultural staying power. There have been such a crazy amount of human hours pumped into that game, and it has has kind of nailed down the mold for what a successful mmorpg is, that I'm surprised if it'll be forgotten while the current players are still alive. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317674#Comment_317674 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317674#Comment_317674 Sat, 03 Dec 2011 20:50:53 -0800 Orpheus

So... Video games?
Pokémon. Easy. Something that has and is still affecting generations of children, teens and young adults. The same goes for the Halo franchise. And in my opinion, yes (unfortunately) the Grand Theft Auto franchise.

As for film...
The Matrix (yes, and its sequels) shall be remembered for game changing special effects and action scenes. Avatar also gets a worthwhile mention for being essentially the flagship of the 3D reboot.

Literature and books.
A Song of Ice and Fire? I really hope so. Along with the Harry Potter books, His Dark Materials and the DISCWORLD series. Perhaps in a similar way to how Tolkien's work is around today.

I'm honestly rather unsure what Kraken Scriptures would be able to last 50 odd years that have been created in the last 10. I would like it to include 'The Walking Dead' or similar long form stories from Indy labels. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317679#Comment_317679 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317679#Comment_317679 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 02:28:06 -0800 manglr
On the one hand is the availability of so many more options in today's environment. This hit popular music in particular...if the Beatles (and presumably other top tier folks like Dylan, Elvis, The Stones, etc) are the benchmark of artistic longevity can any modern musician crossover enough to make that kind of lasting impact?

Another issue is the decline in print media. Frank Lloyd Wright, Andy Warhol, Picasso, Jackson Pollack...all of these type of figures were in part able to cross over into contemporary awareness in part due to coverage from a Time or Life magazine. Those magazines don't fill the same niche today...and I'm honestly hard pressed to come up with anyone from a 'high art' perspective who meets that bar. Frank Gehry from an architecture perspective (although his work well predates the Aughts)...and Banksy and Shepard Fairey from a contemporary art standpoint. Gehry I think makes it sixty years if only because a number of his building will still be extant...Banksy and Fairey...I dunno...they may have a niche...but I doubt their estates will have the legacy that the 20th century masters do... ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317681#Comment_317681 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317681#Comment_317681 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 03:54:25 -0800 government spy
And I'm not even a Trent fanboy. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317684#Comment_317684 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317684#Comment_317684 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 05:01:28 -0800 lazarus corporation I've been thinking about how much of stuff that are well known cultural canon nowadays are from the 60's - songs, books, movies, TV-series', stuff like that - and which products of our time (let's define it as created between 2000-2011) will survive to be some sort of cultural mainstream 'till 2060.

Hmmm. I've been thinking about this, and I've started questioning the assumption within the question itself.

I think that a "cultural mainstream" is something which is formed when a small number of parties control information flow. So when you have a small number (comparative to the population) of TV stations, Radio, Newspapers etc then there is a limit on the breadth of culture that is transmitted, especially in a market economy where concentrating on the "big head" is far more profitable than the "long tail" (which is, of course, a vicious circle).

The "mainstream" media are still hugely dominant, but the internet is starting to provide an alternative to the dominance of the media, and democratise the information flow. If, by 2060, this change has advanced to such a point that there is no "mainstream media" then I don't think there'll be a cultural mainstream but rather a "cultural ocean". It'll have currents and tides, but it would be far wider and less exclusive, allowing things to remain in the public consciousness that would otherwise disappear.

(Apologies for over-thinking a fun question!) ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317690#Comment_317690 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317690#Comment_317690 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 08:58:17 -0800 Vornaskotti
You're hitting one nail of the issue squarely in the head. Even now it's starting to be questionable how much a "cultural mainstream" exists, since the selection, types of media and ease of publishing has exploded so insanely in the last decade or two, and a big chunk of it is already out of the hands of traditional PR machines. In my opinion this doesn't make the original question invalid, though. There has to be certain venues of intersecting common ground, which can be, for a lack of a better term, called "cultural mainstream".

Christ, I just realized today that A Fistful of Dollar, For a Few Dollar's More and The Good, The Bad and the Ugly are made in the 60's... ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317692#Comment_317692 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317692#Comment_317692 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 09:15:44 -0800 KeeperofManyNames
Ditto with comics. Krazy Kat is still around partly because it's absolutely fucking brilliant and partly because people interested in comics as an art form have preserved its legacy, despite the fact that most of the general public probably isn't particularly familiar with it.

The weird thing about this, though, is that academia is also becoming democratized in a lot of ways. Comics and games scholars seem to mostly be independent, self-taught web writers. This says to me that it'll be extremely difficult to predict what works will be sort of selected for preservation by the hivemind. I mean, any of us could be actively involved and successful in keeping different works in the academic--if not the public--consciousness. So, yeah, to go off of the other discussion above, it's quite possible that the academic canon will become a similar cultural ocean. I'm willing to bet that even more traditionally static fields like literary criticism and art history will start to break up into a more liquid state.

I think these might be a few works that might stick around in the academic consciousness due either to their artistic successes or their cultural significance:

Neon Genesis Evangelion
Bioshock (which I haven't played, but seems to be something people point to in Games As Art discussion)
Mass Effect (ditto)
My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic
Harry Potter
Twilight (if only in a "Why on earth did this happen?" sort of way)
Lady Gaga ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317695#Comment_317695 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317695#Comment_317695 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 09:38:41 -0800 Flabyo
I guess in the same light, The Simpsons (although that's been around a lot longer). ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317703#Comment_317703 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317703#Comment_317703 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 11:18:16 -0800 nelzbub I've been wracking my brains for musical artists or albums that may be remembered widely. Most of the albums off the top of my head seem to be from the nineties, perhaps because they've already shown some staying power. I was thinking of Radiohead and perhaps Portishead with Dummy among others.
edit-I've just noticed that 'off the top of my head' came two groups with"head" in their names, I'm no longer sure I can trust my brain.
I'd love to think that Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle will grow to be considered the classic that I already believe it to be but considering its sheer size I can understand it never reaching the wider audience we're discussing.
I also have a naive hope that the current reawakening of a politically aware protest movement may be the beginnings of a watershed moment bringing about a profound and lasting change in worldwide cultural thinking but then, my brain is demonstrably addled by the years of drug use! ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317704#Comment_317704 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317704#Comment_317704 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 11:38:07 -0800 KeeperofManyNames Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317705#Comment_317705 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317705#Comment_317705 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 11:52:23 -0800 BrianMowrey
Two items most probably don't realize are cultural artifacts, but like a good car the straddle a line between the industrial and the mythological:

The M1911 handgun and the Kalashnikov carbine (AK47)


The M1911

As the US Govt designation denotes, the M1911 was first manufactured and used in 1911. It was designed by prolific gunsmith John M. Browning and in its initial military trials could be fired until it got too hot to hold, dunked in water to cool off, and fired some more. 100 years old, it still looks attractive and modern. When you see a handgun in a movie that looks athletic and sexy, like Jolie's exotic custom Matchmaster in Wanted, it is often all the same gun, a design roughly as old as the Model T.

It first appeared in movies in 1929. (It has probably also been the model for over 50% of the magazined handguns you have seen in American comics.) Here is a complete list of movie and TV appearances. Here is a clue for why it won't stop being a part of your culture:




The Kalashnikov

You probably are very aware of this gun. If unfamiliar of the purveyance of the AK47 and variants in worldwide conflict and the way it changed warfare there is a new book on it.

In warfare the Kalashnikov is not going away. It answered the question of urban warfare and the question doesn't need to be reanswered. It forgives any amount of abuse and powder load unlike the American counterpart, the AR-15 (M16), which gave users virtual non-function in Vietnam for two years due to a change to over-powered powder in cartridge manufacture. It is famously easier to learn to use and maintain than any other rifle.

It was the iPhone (or more like the PC) of automatic fire. Simply by being cheap and versatile, it made under-funded armies as able to consistently fire and strike the enemy as any super-power or imperial overlord*.

In culture the Kalashnikov is not going to stop being the default prop and symbol for modern strife. The distinctive banana-magazine is embedded into our conception of warfare in the developing world. A complete list of uses of the AK47 in film and TV is here. For an idea of whether the Kalashnikov will still be the defining image of entire swathes of the collective unconscious, just do a Google image search on "Africa war." Or "Guerrilla Fighter", which brings you




*The AK47 is the prototype automatic carbine, and the automatic carbine ideally solves the problems of both urban and guerrilla warfare. The automatic carbine has become so fundamental to human war that in this year's Libya conflict, wherein lines of arms distribution were never firmly settled, rifles and carbines were selling for three times as much as full size machine guns (this article is also by Chivers, author of the book on the Kalashnikov):
This spring in eastern Libya, the prices for Kalashnikovs and FN FAL rifles crested at top-dollar war prices – as much as $2,500 for a rifle in good condition. [...] Weapons that are technically more powerful, including rocket-propelled grenades and PKM machine guns, have been costing $700 to $900, rebels said. [...] These weapons, objectively fearsome, can cost one-third the price of an assault rifle. Sometimes such weapons are even free, Mr. Alsharkasy said, “because many people do not know how to use them” and simply turn them over to the rebels.
]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317708#Comment_317708 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317708#Comment_317708 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 12:07:51 -0800 Flabyo as part of their national flag. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317713#Comment_317713 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317713#Comment_317713 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 12:49:31 -0800 Susimur
Discworld (third nomintion!) I suspect will survive time much like Austen has, and for the same reason: it's critique of it's own age dressed up as light funny reading. Not all the books will weather as well though -- the romances and humor will survive and make Lords and Ladies or Hogfather approachable to new audiences, but only scholars will laugh at Soul Music or Moving Pictures.

For TV, Stargate. Started in 1997 but ran a full ten years, and the spinoffs are still knocking about. It'll be the thing people had on lunchboxes and t-shirts when they were kids 'cause their parents were fans. House MD might be another candidate - and I have nightmarish visions of Friends being last decade's Lucy Show.

Games - Pokemon, GTA and Call of Duty have already been mentioned, WoW (if only because so many people will have grandparents who met while playing it). Possibly Guitar Hero and Sing Star, 'cause karaoke game parties. Scholars might remember Assassin's Creed and Bioshock, but I doubt mainstream or even fandom culture will.

Music, comics... hmm. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317720#Comment_317720 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317720#Comment_317720 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 13:41:30 -0800 government spy Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317721#Comment_317721 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317721#Comment_317721 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 13:50:07 -0800 nelzbub It got me thinking of what horrors from this decades' military industrial complex will have a bearing on future warfare.
I'm thinking specifically of the rise of predator drone strikes and other such remote controlled weapon systems like those from the lovely people at Metal Storm
While I agree that the AK47 and its descendants are likely to remain the weapon of choice for the rebels of the world, I think it will be used on an increasingly asymmetrical battlefield against an enemy who is physically in a different time zone.
How will the future thank us for these advances?
ok, enough with the guns now... ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317732#Comment_317732 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317732#Comment_317732 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 17:07:09 -0800 Jason A. Quest ...to what extent has the fragmentation of media and popular tastemakers hamstrung the development of media sensations?
On the one hand is the availability of so many more options in today's environment. This hit popular music in particular...if the Beatles (and presumably other top tier folks like Dylan, Elvis, The Stones, etc) are the benchmark of artistic longevity can any modern musician crossover enough to make that kind of lasting impact?I seriously doubt it. I'm seeing folks here saying that This or That will surely be remembered and referenced 50 years from now, but for some of them I don't know what you're talking about today. They simply aren't in my circle of attention. Fifty years ago, the 3 TV stations, the 10 radio stations, and the 8 cinema screens in town ensured that everyone was at least being exposed to the same stuff, because... what else was there to watch or listen to? And if you didn't see it or hear it, you heard people talking about it. So you knew about Elvis, whether you were into "rock and roll" music or not.

But today... Is there any TV show that a majority of Americans watch, like they did I Love Lucy? If I don't own the console that your favorite game runs on, it effectively doesn't exist in my world. Heck, there's still a substantial segment of the population that doesn't own a console, which means that a game has to cross over into some other medium, or get news/buzz coverage outside of gaming, for them to know about it. In the past decade (give or take), that'd probably be GTA, Final Fantasy, and Angry Birds. Even if all of your friends know and love your favorite band, most people have never heard them. The fragmentation caused by cable TV around 20 years ago ain't nothin' compared to what's happened in the past 10 years.

What passes for "shared culture" these days is literally the least-common-denominator stuff that can approaches "mass audience" status, regardless of quality. American Idol. Whatshername Kardashian. Twilight will be remembered fondly in 50 years.

In any case, I think we're too close to predict things "of today" that will be classics. But if we're permitted to go back a little farther, last week I saw a preview (literally) of the emerging list of classic films from the past few decades. The preview consisted of trailers shown before Hugo, of three films which are being converted into 3D for theatrical re-release: Beauty and the Beast, Titanic, and The Phantom Menace. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317749#Comment_317749 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317749#Comment_317749 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 21:41:42 -0800 D.J. Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317769#Comment_317769 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317769#Comment_317769 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 03:03:45 -0800 sneak046 Global collective memory? It's just that I cannot for a second think that very much of the West's recent 'cultural' ouptut will stand both the test of time, and a shift in the World's cultural polarity towards the East. To pick up on one particularly puzzling (to me, at least) suggestion, just how many Chinese fans does Trent Reznor have? That is a genuine question, he may indeed be massive in Guangdong province for all I know.

Of course there are many films, games and music that will remain popular through either long term fan-interest (but only among the self identifying members of that particular thing's fandom) or as hipster retro fads - 18 year old Azerbaijani Witch House revivalists for instance, Nigerian cyberpunks or Mongolian Noughties' Console Game fanatics.

I basically agree with what Jason said above, that Jersey Shore/American Idol/X-Factor/tabloid celebrities will be among the few Western things to be remain in the global collective memory a few decades down the line, perhaps only as a sad reminder of the once-powerful/rich West's addiction to pointless consumerism... ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317771#Comment_317771 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317771#Comment_317771 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 03:56:31 -0800 tedcroland
But, somehow, everyone's left off Valve. Portal, Half-Life and Team Fortress 2, and probably less Left 4 Dead, have such incredible staying power they can't be ignored. Sure, part of the reason they're still around is that Valve owns and operates the best digital distribution option for PC games, but they're available on multiple platforms, and you can take any sensibility for games and chances are they will enjoy at least one of them. Hell, my ex-girlfriend learned how to play FPS's just to play Portal after I showed it to her. She had previously not gotten too far past Mario 3.

Interestingly, I think that Farmville and the like will be wholly forgotten, if they're not already. They make a ton of money and take a ton of time, but they're occupations for non-serious game players, and therefore will disintigrate in the minds of people after they're gone. People will be replaying Half-Life 2 like they do Zelda and similar long-staying series.

Movies is a sad topic. Classic films from every other decade are mostly actually good, whereas I feel that "highest grossing" is going to mean most memorable. While I like a few of those films, things like Avatar and Transformers can burn in fire forever and ever.

That's my two bits for now. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317772#Comment_317772 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317772#Comment_317772 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 04:21:37 -0800 Timbo
Music from the 50's and 60's persists because (arguably) it is very good music and was playable on (carefully kept vinyl) for decades after. It also coincided with the baby boom and was passed in to mainstream culture by the baby boomers.

Our rampant consumerism menas that CDs will be gone soon posssibly to be follow by print books. Consoles change every few years. Most people will not have a PS3 or Xbox kicking about in the next 15 years on which to revisit any games.

Genuinely cannot think of one group or item off the top of my head that will hold the same sway as the Beatles or the TV did from their relevant decades. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317774#Comment_317774 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317774#Comment_317774 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 04:40:08 -0800 sneak046 And I also agree with you about the vidya games of today too - they'll only be played/remembered/relevant for as long as the tech is around to play them on. No one will be dusting off a fifty year old console in order to play any of the Call of Duty games.. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317780#Comment_317780 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317780#Comment_317780 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 05:42:55 -0800 Flabyo Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317785#Comment_317785 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317785#Comment_317785 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:46:09 -0800 D.J. Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317787#Comment_317787 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317787#Comment_317787 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 08:16:36 -0800 sneak046 Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317791#Comment_317791 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317791#Comment_317791 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 08:44:43 -0800 lampcommander
When I look back to the history of fifty years ago, and even 100 years ago, a huge part of sustained culture does revolve around entertainment--so I don't think it's unreasonable that video games take more prominence as a main cultural signifier. I would probably agree, though, that the expansion of various forms of entertainment--along with forms of communication, and other things--might lead to a more general view of culture of this period, as in "video games were neat" rather than "that Bioshock game, we remember that one".

Interesting idea and discussion so far. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317792#Comment_317792 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317792#Comment_317792 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 08:56:17 -0800 Flabyo Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317793#Comment_317793 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317793#Comment_317793 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 08:57:56 -0800 oldhat Zombo.com will live for years and years? Already over 12 years strong... ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317800#Comment_317800 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317800#Comment_317800 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 10:19:07 -0800 KeeperofManyNames
And yeah, where's the whole "The West Is Already Fallen" thing coming from? That sounds more than a little alarmist to me. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317801#Comment_317801 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317801#Comment_317801 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 10:27:32 -0800 joe.distort
sure, there will be people like us, but i still buy vinyl and hate e-books. we are going to be the continually dwindling minority. my guess is that by 2060, ever-increasing speed of disposable culture and everything layering over each other will have rendered everything older than a year or two as part of cultural waste for everyone but a small slice of stubborn retro minded people. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317803#Comment_317803 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317803#Comment_317803 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 10:30:14 -0800 taphead
The AK47 was an inspired choice, though. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317804#Comment_317804 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317804#Comment_317804 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 10:33:56 -0800 taphead
(And even there I just started getting doubts. Do people still remember the Berlin Wall?) ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317805#Comment_317805 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=317805#Comment_317805 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 10:35:28 -0800 lampcommander
The only reason we read things like Moby-Dick today, or worship movies like Citizen Kane, is because someone else years later took notice and said "Hey, wait a minute..."

I'm speaking in terms of separate cultures, not a world culture, which doesn't exist yet. And I'm not optimistic (pessimistic?) enough to think it'll happen anytime in the near future.

I'm also speaking mostly of art here--in terms of broader cultural context I tend to suspect 2000-2010 will be more grouped in with the late 90s as "Net 1.0". ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318059#Comment_318059 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318059#Comment_318059 Wed, 07 Dec 2011 15:08:08 -0800 Morac
(Also, in case you haven't noticed, video games are What I Do, so they are my first point of reference when approaching these sorts of debates).

@taphead: Time to make you feel old: I was two years old when the wall came down. While I definitely don't remember that event the way I remember the towers, the impact that event created is not going anywhere (mostly due to it being a staple of high school history classes these days). The towers will most likely live on in a similar way, due to the way the influenced the next 10 years of global politics.

@lamcommander Re: "Net 1.0" - Web 2.0 was a term that started being bandied about starting in 2004. I'd say a huge portion of site design practices are well in to the second, or even third generations of design. Look at the differences in interface design, technology used, and general philosophy of sites like early-era Myspace compared to modern-day Twitter. Barring some sort of major ground up restructuring, the movement from one generation to another is such a spread out and iterative process that I doubt we will ever reach a point where the average person will be able to "that was net 1.0, and this is net 2.0". ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318075#Comment_318075 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318075#Comment_318075 Wed, 07 Dec 2011 16:41:46 -0800 lampcommander Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318138#Comment_318138 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318138#Comment_318138 Thu, 08 Dec 2011 07:11:17 -0800 city creed Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318175#Comment_318175 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318175#Comment_318175 Thu, 08 Dec 2011 11:49:42 -0800 KeeperofManyNames
It's interesting to consider what the actual creators of new media will look to as well. I mean, Art Nouveau is still largely ignored critically, but commercial artists keep returning to it as a style because it's just such a goldmine. Similarly, Tim Burton is still basically just cribbing the notes of Fritz Lang and the other German Expressionists, so even though most people probably haven't seen Metropolis (tragically) the actual aesthetic is still around because modern creators DO still pay attention to the past.

That's, of course, even harder to predict than the original question. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318289#Comment_318289 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318289#Comment_318289 Fri, 09 Dec 2011 09:43:48 -0800 city creed filmcrithulk just posted a HULK-SIZED review of The Cinema of Edgar Wright which does a much better job of articulating the case for Pilgrim's significance.
TO HULK, THE CINEMA OF EDGAR WRIGHT IS ABOUT THIS MODERN CATHARSIS. WE ARE PUNY BEINGS AND WE LIVE IN THE AGE OF THE GREAT POP-CULTURE AMALGAMATION. THESE REFERENCES ARE SHORT HAND FOR SURE, BUT THERE IS NO DENYING THEY HAVE BECOME A TACTILE PART OF OUR PSYCHE.

The whole thing is well worth reading.

Spaced's second season was aired in 2001. As cultural artifacts go, that show is a gem which will surely outlive us all. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318331#Comment_318331 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318331#Comment_318331 Fri, 09 Dec 2011 18:01:12 -0800 mister hex
I recently came across a tv guide from 1982, previewing the new fall season. The only show I remembered was CHEERS. (And MANIMAL, of course but it only lasted one seaon. One magical season.) One very interesting thing was the "tv at a glance" page - there were a startlingly few number of channels (compared to now) and no specialty channels at all. The Big 3 networks were absolutely dominant. There's something that's changed within my lifetime that seems small and yet monumental at the same time.

What will "survive"? The Beatles and the Stones but not the Kinks or the Dave Clark Five. Hell, not even the MC5.

We don't really have a unified culture anymore so it's hard to say.

Then again, I'm predicting that this time next year, we'll all be huddling in a shell-hole, eating cold rat and hoping the robots don't kill us so I might be the wrong chap to ask ... ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318377#Comment_318377 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318377#Comment_318377 Sat, 10 Dec 2011 09:28:36 -0800 Jason A. Quest Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318381#Comment_318381 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318381#Comment_318381 Sat, 10 Dec 2011 10:39:07 -0800 twentythoughts
Tomb Raider is a good example. Back when it came out, and for a good bit after that, it was lauded as one of the most important games ever. It helped bring games into the mainstream. Where is it today, though? How many current, young gamers give a crap about Tomb Raider?

Really answering this question is hard, since the way pop culture spreads has changed so much with the Internet. Stuff gets popular and forgotten again at such a rapid rate these days, it's hard to say whether it takes the same for a property to have a lasting impact today as it would 60 years ago. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318386#Comment_318386 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318386#Comment_318386 Sat, 10 Dec 2011 11:44:13 -0800 oddbill
Same goes for Scott Pilgrim. Not known now, except by niche. Won't be remembered.

When you are talking about cultural artifacts that might be remembered across six decades, you need to look for things that transcend niches already.

Pixar films, for example. Disney Princesses. Sitcoms like The Office, maybe, might be remembered.

That's culture pumped full of preservatives.

The things being talked about here are more like fresh picked perishables. More nutritious, but it rots quickly, and is replaced by other newer things. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318394#Comment_318394 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318394#Comment_318394 Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:46:52 -0800 KeeperofManyNames
What should be preserved? Because once we have that list, we can begin the task of preserving. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318396#Comment_318396 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318396#Comment_318396 Sat, 10 Dec 2011 14:13:20 -0800 oddbill
Kane is held up by film critics and historians as foundational as so many technical and compositional techniques in modern cinema were invented or done with inspired skill in that one film.

I really think the gaming equivalents of that are all the first generation arcade games, or maybe World of Warcraft. Everything else is iterated or derived from those roots. I guess that doesn't account for first person shooters, so maybe put Doom in that list. But in 2060 I do not believe anyone but game historians will know anything about Doom.

And gaming, despite it's massive market, does not have the depth of cultural penetration that film has. It just doesn't. Films easily cross cultural boundaries and linger in people's minds their whole lives, are rewatched across generations fondly. Video games are tied too closely to constantly obsoleting technology. There are 18 year olds today who are watching and enjoying Casablanca for the first time. In 2060, do you really think an 18 year old is going to even be able to fire up Bioshock, and if he did, that they will find it the equal of their current generation game experience?

Maybe the character of GLADOSS has a chance to be as culturally famous as 2001's HAL, if the dialog from the Portal games had an impact on a generation of young creatives.

I don't think gaming's culturally impactful era has arrived yet. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318409#Comment_318409 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318409#Comment_318409 Sat, 10 Dec 2011 16:14:17 -0800 KeeperofManyNames They still know the name, because the scholars and cinephiles keep the name alive. How many people have read Ulysses? Not a whole lot, I'm willing to bet. Yet it's still something that people who know about literature recognize by title, if not by content. I don't know if we have games yet that are worth remembering. It's not my field, and I'm not really qualified to say. But the question isn't whether the masses will care. They won't. But they won't care about anything else, either. They can be safely ignored, because ultimately it's the people that DO care that will keep works alive. It's just much more worthwhile to look at what the niche folks are interested in, because they have the longer attention span.

And maybe just knowing something's name isn't enough to count as "still existing in 60 years." I think it is, though. It has to be. Otherwise, I honestly don't think we can look at culture and argue that ANYTHING has survived of the past. If our litmus test is whether or not the general masses still remember something, then our culture goes back, at best, two or three years. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318410#Comment_318410 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318410#Comment_318410 Sat, 10 Dec 2011 16:25:10 -0800 oddbill
Things in this class arise out of niches, but it's not easy for that to happen anymore, and you need to look at things in that light.

Cultural curators matter, sure, but mostly to narrow communities of interest. There is still a mass culture, though, and it's fairly immune to curation. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318413#Comment_318413 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318413#Comment_318413 Sat, 10 Dec 2011 17:15:36 -0800 KeeperofManyNames
Of course, I could be totally off base here, and it does strike me as a rather chicken-and-egg kind of question.

Has anyone actually studied this phenomenon in detail? What really does come first--long-lasting interest, or careful marketing?

And... again, is there really a mass culture anymore? I mean... I'm not sure I've seen It's A Wonderful Life all the way through, ever. If I did, I don't remember it. So, I don't know, maybe even those things that are supposedly universal cultural touchstones are becoming less and less universal. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318415#Comment_318415 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318415#Comment_318415 Sat, 10 Dec 2011 18:22:27 -0800 DavidLejeune huge cultural touchstone, even if the number of people who have seen it from beginning to end is comparatively small (though I'd argue it's not nearly as small as you seem to think). If you make a 'rosebud' joke most people will laugh, even if they don't quite get it, because it's practically part of the collective unconscious at this point.

The thing about niche stuff is that niches always grow with time, and I think there are definitely games that will survive as part of the culture at large. I don't think BioShock will be one of them, and I honestly hope it isn't because in most ways it was a step back both narratively and gameplaywise from the games that it claimed to be the spiritual successor to, but Final Fantasy VII, The Legend of Zelda? These have left enough of a mark on enough people that they're very likely to seep into the culture at large over the course of the next fifty years, and to a degree already have. How many people that laugh at the 'It's dangerous to go alone' meme do you think have actually played the original Zelda? ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318416#Comment_318416 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318416#Comment_318416 Sat, 10 Dec 2011 18:31:22 -0800 oddbill
It may be that characters like Link or Mario may achieve Betty Boop levels of cultural perseverance.

I'll stand by my stance on Citizen Kane though. People in the entertainment industry riff on Citizen Kane when they want other entertainment industry insiders to laugh. That's what Tiny Toons and the Simpsons did with it. That stuff passes right by most people though. It's like the people who laugh conspicuously loudly at the miserable puns in Shakespeare. It's just a way of signalling that you are smart enough or inside enough to know about that. It's not actually, in and of itself, all that universal or funny. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318425#Comment_318425 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318425#Comment_318425 Sat, 10 Dec 2011 22:26:30 -0800 mister hex
All of these things came from the First World War (often called the Great War and trust me, I've seen photos, it wasn't THAT "Great").

"Chatting" used to mean sitting around, going through your clothes for lice. You'd talk, as you ran a fingernail along the seams or even held it up to a candle-flame. (That crackling noise means it's working!)

The Great War was ALMOST A HUNDRED YEARS AGO.

Guessing about which video-game will be remembered is beside the point. The point IS you don't really GET to pick what gets remembered.

I remember my pal (another word from WWI) and I talking about an old Bugs Bunny short, that referenced "Treasure of the Sierra Madre" (if you haven't seen it, it's the one where Bogey demands to see their badges. With predictable results). My pal hadn't seen the film when he was, oh, I don't know, seven? So he never knew why some random dude kept coming up and putting the touch on Bugs Bunny for a "dollar for an American who's down on his luck". It wasn't until my pal went to Film School that he saw the film and went "Oh, yeah! I remember that from an old Bugs Bunny cartoon!"

Bill's right about Citizen Kane, it'll be here in a hundred years. (I've always wanted to see a screening of it and at the end, exclaim "I GET IT NOW! ROSEBUD WAS THE FUCKING SLED! OH MY GOD, WHAT A FOOL I'VE BEEN!" And then shoot myself.)

At the rate I'm running out of jokes, I'll go broke .... in about sixty-five years! (Ba-Dum-Bum)

You kids and your internet and your computer vidya games and your gadgets .... ("gadget" - noun - popularized during .... yep.) .... try to take the long view of history. And get off my lawn. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318435#Comment_318435 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318435#Comment_318435 Sun, 11 Dec 2011 02:35:22 -0800 D.J. Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318437#Comment_318437 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318437#Comment_318437 Sun, 11 Dec 2011 04:19:28 -0800 lazarus corporation what I said above about there probably being no "cultural mainstream" in 2060, if there was such a thing as a "cultural mainstream" then the things it would contain would entirely be dependent on what the people of 2060 want to say about themselves.

By which I mean that the choice of what gets preserved in "common memory" (as opposed to things preserved in the minds of specialists) is not a result of how important something is to the people of 2011, but by whether it plays any significant role in "why the people/culture of 2060 is how it is".

This is how popular art history works (as opposed to what is know by art historians) - particular paintings/movements are highlighted as a way to describe a linear journey from past to present. If a particularly stunning piece of artwork isn't on that path then it simply doesn't get included. It's all about storytelling, and nothing to do with an objective curation of the most impressive artworks/songs/games of any year.

It relates to "Chekhov's gun":

"If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise don't put it there."


Similarly artworks/songs/films/games in the collective story of "how we got where we are" that is also known as the "Cultural Mainstream" must play a role in the plot. {insert name of artwork/game/film here} may be a fantastic piece of work, but unless it can be shown to be an important part of the process of the evolution of {artform} between now and 2060 then it won't be included.

And since we don't know what art/films/songs/games will be present in 2060 then we can't possibly claim that a particular thing is part of that journey.

Edit: example: Van Gogh. I've sold more pictures than Van Gogh sold in his lifetime. He was, to all intents and purposes, utterly unknown and deemed insignificant by his contemporary society. However he became part of the "Cultural Mainstream" because his paintings play an important role in the part of story of art that links the (post-)impressionism of the 19th Century with the artwork of the 20th Century. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318448#Comment_318448 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318448#Comment_318448 Sun, 11 Dec 2011 07:45:31 -0800 mister hex
We also agree that ideas bubble up from unexpected places, if it's useful, it will be used and that video games WILL be important but the medium is still too new to have an auteur/genius/ Big Man to blaze a trail for lesser lights to follow, or even something our descendants won't find as quaint as, say, Pong (which I remember playing. It was fun! Ruined your tv, though ...).

Kim Kardashian is the new Norma Talmadge. She won't be remembered any more than Norma is today (she was HUGE in her day, though). George Clooney WILL be remembered because, well, look at him.

I predict sex-robots will be huge in the future. Sex-robots for all! Even those that believe it to be deviant! "I'm Partnered With A Sex-Robot - But We're Celibate!" Next on Oprah 2.0! (Oprah will be remembered in 50 years.) The strange, uncanny-valley versions we have now (RealDolls that Japanese bloke, people who own anime hug pillows) will seem bizarre and crude to Teens of the Future.

What great films, made in the last ten-twenty years will survive? Fight Club? Yes. The Phantom Menace? Unfortunately, Yes. Whate else?

Is music exciting enough anymore to make people recall it fondly? Am I going to have to listen to Auto-Tune again, possibly while I wear bell-bottom pants for the fourth fucking time? When does the Justin Bieber Retrospective/Rehabillitation begin?

What troubling trends of today may plague the future? ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318470#Comment_318470 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318470#Comment_318470 Sun, 11 Dec 2011 13:37:49 -0800 IsaacSher
FILM: I suspect PULP FICTION will be remembered as one of the key films of its era. Possibly the first MATRIX movie as well, but that's less clear to me. STAR WARS will remain noteworthy, at least the original trilogy, although I suspect history will continue to look askance at Lucas in regards to the prequels. STAR TREK is already on its way downhill, I don't think the film series will give it a long-term kick in the pants. We'd need a new TV show that's on par with TNG to really revive it, and I don't think that'll happen. I'd like to think that SCOTT PILGRIM VS. THE WORLD will be well remembered in the future, but that's entirely wishful thinking on my part.

TV: Ten years ago, I would've said CHEERS, but that show is all but forgotten now, Shelly Long becoming an egotistical has-been punchline, Kirstie Alley a Scientologist has-been, and the show generally been outshined in every way by FRASIER. FRASIER may be well remembered, but I don't know if I'd put money on that. Survivor will be a footnote in TV history for launching the reality craze, but not much beyond that. Professional Wrestling will still exist in some form, but probably all but unrecognizable to today's fans as today's stuff was compared to the old territory work of the 70's and earlier. FRIENDS will be remembered as being an extremely popular show, but lacking depth or substance, and being painfully Whitebread. THE COSBY SHOW of the 80's will be a footnote in the history of American race relations. People will still know who Bugs Bunny is, but not variations on the Looney Toons like Animaniacs, Tiny Toons, or Tazmania. It wouldn't shock me if the Timm/Dini BATMAN THE ANIMATED SERIES is fondly remembered in the future, and may even be the definitive version of Batman that people know in the future, but other Timm-verse shows like Superman and Justice League Unlimited and Batman Beyond will fade into obscurity. POKEMON will have some enduring legacy, but probably toned down from the current level of constant new additions to the franchise. For some reason, I have a feeling that IRON CHEF will have some lasting impact, for the kitsch value if nothing else. I also suspect that DOCTOR WHO will endure in some form, as the regeneration gimmick allows for generational reinvention, as we've seen with the last six years of the new version of the show. MONTY PYTHON will still be remembered, as new nerds will discover it at a certain age and quote it incessantly, giving older nerds nearby uncomfortable reminders of when they used to be young and quote it incessantly, and the cycle will continue.

VIDEO GAMES: I agree that video games haven't had a Citizen Kane yet. The closest we've come to it is, in my opinion, not BIOSHOCK but SHADOW OF THE COLOSSUS. Bioshock is a fine game, but not everyone's cup of tea. I have yet to hear anyone ever say a bad thing about SHADOW, and it got brought up constantly in the recent Roger Ebert "are games art?" kerfluffle. If the MMO paradigm survives, then World of Warcraft will be remembered. If not, then not. Popular games like HALO or CALL OF DUTY are certainly very popular, but I don't quite see them becoming cultural touchstones decades down the line.

COMICS: This begs the question of "will comics even still exist in sixty years", but assuming they do, I think that ALL-STAR SUPERMAN will be this decade's answer to WATCHMEN -- the superhero comic that gets lauded as relatively high art. SCOTT PILGRIM will be remembered by comic historians as noteworthy, but the general public will ask "who's he?". SPIDER-MAN, SUPERMAN, BATMAN, and *maybe* THE X-MEN will be the recognizable icons, but our current notions of canon will be shot completely to hell. Personally, I suspect that in the next several decades, attempts to create a continuous canon will simply be abandoned, and people will tell stories that try to reinforce the basic essence of the myth rather than deal with minute detail -- not unlike ALL-STAR SUPERMAN, for example.

Anyway, that's my sleep-deprived theory. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318522#Comment_318522 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318522#Comment_318522 Sun, 11 Dec 2011 20:30:58 -0800 Greg Sullivan
One thing to keep in mind, though, about thinking our current pop culture is too shallow or ephemeral to make anything lasting: To Literati at the time (and particulary their own author) nothing was more shallow and ephemeral than the Sherlock Holmes stories. Doyle and his contemporaries knew they were popular, they just didn't think they had anything of lasting value in them. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318523#Comment_318523 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318523#Comment_318523 Sun, 11 Dec 2011 20:56:49 -0800 DavidLejeune
That's why I think it's very premature to dismiss today's video games in a discussion like this. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318541#Comment_318541 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318541#Comment_318541 Mon, 12 Dec 2011 01:36:19 -0800 Morac Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318549#Comment_318549 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318549#Comment_318549 Mon, 12 Dec 2011 02:29:01 -0800 Flabyo Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318551#Comment_318551 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318551#Comment_318551 Mon, 12 Dec 2011 02:41:02 -0800 Vornaskotti Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318589#Comment_318589 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318589#Comment_318589 Mon, 12 Dec 2011 12:57:23 -0800 lampcommander here are two different articles discussing video games in a broader social context that at least back up the notion of video gaming's endured cultural relevance in the future. ]]> Modern cultural artifacts that'll survive 'till 2060 - your list? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318629#Comment_318629 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10371&Focus=318629#Comment_318629 Tue, 13 Dec 2011 05:12:46 -0800 Timbo
It is possible that working on this model that Alvin & The Chipmunks may be around 60 years from now!

The longevity of products and 'culture@ in the present day is limited by the sheer volume of stuff being made and specific marketing approaches and target groups. Twilight has been a smash but does anyone over 20 give a fuck? Will they still give on in 20 years time? Does Harry Potter have the legs to be a Rupert the Bear (UK) , Mickey Mouse or LOTR?

Our own diversity is making our cultural products less likely to persist. That said I love the fact that so many different groups exist and that they are enabled/allowed to comic con, emo fest or goth it up as they feel fit.

I have really enjoyed this thread.... ]]>