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WorldWeird: Malvinas Fucklands

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      CommentAuthorJP Stargazer
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2012 edited
     (10475.1)
    So, as you know, I'm argentine, and as you know, people from the UK, things have been getting pretty much difficult between both our lands in the past few months, diplomatically speaking. I've read somewhere that all the fuzz that Cameron is causing with this issue is very similar to what the fucking militars did here back in '82: trying to conceal with this issue subjects as unemployment, poverty, etc. What are your thoughts about this??

    Make Love, Not War.
  2.  (10475.2)
    Well, of course I don't believe in everything that our government is saying here, either. But anyway...
    • CommentAuthorFlabyo
    • CommentTimeFeb 3rd 2012
     (10475.3)
    It comes down to the same thing all these things eventually do.

    Oil.

    We've found some down there and so now we're very keen to hang on to the islands again. The UK position *has* always been that we'll keep them as long as the people living there want us to. Can't remember the last time they had a vote on it, but the islanders do seem to want to be a British colony still.

    Saying that we're provoking by sending Prince William there to do more of his military service does seem a little like an overreaction. (the man is a rescue pilot! hardly like his younger brother the Apache gunship pilot...)

    Now would be a good time to attack I suppose, seeing as we've just decomissioned our aircraft carriers.
  4.  (10475.4)
    Nobody's paying that much attention to it here. It makes the news, but not in a jingoistic way. It's unlikely that many people even care beyond a vague 'well, I suppose it's British' kind of way, either. If the islanders decided that they wanted to suddenly become Argentine, or any other nationality, I doubt many people here (beyond a few oil interests and conservatives) would really be that bothered.

    As for William heading there - it's part of the Jubilee thing. Frankly it'd be odder if we DIDN'T send someone from the royal family to somewhere that's recognised as British.
    • CommentAuthorflecky
    • CommentTimeFeb 3rd 2012
     (10475.5)
    I remember the Falklands stuff in the eighties;knew a guy who served over there and what happened to him weren't pretty.

    I've reached a point in my life where i no-longer really follow current events.It's not that i don't care about things;if something is outside my power to do anything about it i can't see the point in getting a ulcer getting riled-up over it;leave that to the politicians and "them"in charge.It might sound like a bad attitude but it is what it is...
  6.  (10475.6)
    I think it's massive dickwaving on both sides. A conflict is in nobody's interests. They've just sent a billion pound destroyer down there that can apparently shoot down something the size of a cricket ball travelling at three times the speed of sound, I don't think they'd have done that if they genuinely thought it'd get pranged. Although if the Argentines attack it with supersonic golf balls I guess it's screwed.

    It's been quite big news in my local press - portsmouth's a big navy town.
    • CommentAuthorOddcult
    • CommentTimeFeb 4th 2012
     (10475.7)
    Yeah, it's a useful political flag-waving exercise for both sides to trot out occasionally. Most reasonable people in the UK's opinion is that the residents should always have first and final say in the matter, but then aside from apathy, you're left with a very few folk who don't think the cost of defending the islands is worth it and those who think Britain should nuke Argentina if they so much as look at us funny.

    Argentina has pretty much no hope of ever successfully invading again, and the cost of doing so in both lives and money wouldn't be worth it, unless there were a major oil or gas find. Which is what both nations both hope and fear, as it would bring matters to a head again.

    Britain's military, although severely depleted since the 80s and without carriers, is actually a lot more capable than it was at the time of the last war and three or four ships, a couple of subs and the handful of Typhoons stationed on the Islands could wipe out an invasion force very quickly. Just one of the subs could flatten Buenos Aires with conventional weapons and the whole of Argentina's air force would be taken out by four Typhoons and an air defence destroyer. Something that couldn't be done before. Argentina knows this and also knows Britain would have the will to do it, as the political capital for any prime minister who presided over this would be immense. So there are limited circumstances in which it would happen, pretty much down to a fossil fuel find.

    So, for now, sabres will rattle, but little will happen, unless someone really stupid gets into power in Argentina again.
    • CommentAuthorKradlum
    • CommentTimeFeb 4th 2012
     (10475.8)
    I've read somewhere that all the fuzz that Cameron is causing with this issue is very similar to what the fucking militars did here back in '82


    There's really no fuss here, so I'm guessing you read that from an Argentine source.
  9.  (10475.9)
    Yeah, it just seems to be a fair amount of rehashing of old enmities and dick swinging from both sides. It's boring. Cameron just basically want to look all hard and militaristic, like his Auntie Maggie.
    • CommentAuthorFlabyo
    • CommentTimeFeb 8th 2012
     (10475.10)
    Argentina are going to make a formal complaint to the UN about British 'militarisation' around the islands.
    •  
      CommentAuthorsneak046
    • CommentTimeFeb 8th 2012 edited
     (10475.11)
    What Oddcult/JP Carpenter/Bob and Flabyo said - Metaphorical dickwaving (and eventual war-fighting) won Maggie a landslide victory in the '83 election in spite of huge economic problems, the largest number in unemployment since the second world war and being behind in the polls (prior to the war) to the newly formed SDP/Liberal Alliance (see this in the Beeb's archives), which in turn set the scene for the tories to continue in power until Tony Blair's victory in '97.

    Cameron is trying to look 'hard' and belligerence-in-general plays well with the rightwing press, but for sure the (something like) 65 billion barrells-worth of oil is likely to be a big geo-political driver in any conflict over the Islands.

    For most UK citizens though the main overriding opinion is the same as for the Gibraltan situation in that while there are people there that self-identfy as British then it should remain a British Overseas Territory, beyond any jingoistic or financial or energy-security matters.

    [multiple edits for spelling and clarity]
    • CommentAuthorFlabyo
    • CommentTimeFeb 8th 2012
     (10475.12)
    Gibraltar is a fun one these days, because the EU open borders agreement essentially forced Spain to end their closure of the border. They still want it back, but their options for trying to force us to give it up are much diminished now.

    It's a weird place to visit. Like someone took Guildford and draped it over a rock in a sunny place.
    •  
      CommentAuthorsneak046
    • CommentTimeFeb 8th 2012
     (10475.13)
    ...and added Monkeys. I've never been, but I can imagine *exactly* what you mean - The Isle Of Man but with sun.

    I think there also a tendency among the Great British Public to want to hang onto whatever remnants of our colonial past remain too..
  14.  (10475.14)
    I think there also a tendency among the Great British Public to want to hang onto whatever remnants of our colonial past remain too..

    Yup. Exactly.

    Notably, Cameron had a lot of back-bencher dissent before 'the Flaklands [sic] situation' and it suddenly disappeared...

    how...

    oh - predictable.
  15.  (10475.15)
    ...as you know, people from the UK, things have been getting pretty much difficult between both our lands in the past few months


    I'm guessing some Argentine politician needs to scrounge up a few votes because I can assure you, this is not a story in the UK.
    • CommentAuthorFlabyo
    • CommentTimeFeb 8th 2012
     (10475.16)
    @Afghamistam - well, apart from it being on the news a lot today anyway.
    •  
      CommentAuthorsneak046
    • CommentTimeFeb 8th 2012 edited
     (10475.17)
    ^Indeed
    Google's news metric for the search term "falklands islands" tells a different story

    • CommentAuthor256
    • CommentTimeFeb 8th 2012
     (10475.18)
    I know one person who actually lived in the Falklands, and the impression she left me with (accurate or not) is that it's a desolate shithole largely inhabited by nutters and domestic violence enthusiasts, and that the only thing that grows there is a sort of grass that looks dead anyway. Which makes the idea of people actually fighting over it quite curious.

    That said, since Argentina don't seem to have a particularly compelling claim, it does appear to make sense for the 3000 inhabitants to continue their self-determined status as a British Overseas Territory.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIan Mayor
    • CommentTimeFeb 8th 2012
     (10475.19)
    I had noticed a recent trend in the more right-wing UK media of, well, talking about the Falklands War a bit more than made any kind of sense (including an amazing speculative-fiction editorial of how Britain would be ruined on the world stage if we lost a second 'Falklands war' (I struggled to find the link, but if anyone else can, please post it)).

    I assumed this was part of a propaganda drive to justify increased military spending in general, but now I'm reading a UK affiliated company has found oil in the surrounding waters, well, it's making a rather horrific sense.
  20.  (10475.20)
    @Flabyo - yeah, Gibraltar is wierd, but then so's that whole ex-pat filled strip down the costa del sol, partner's parents lived there for years so spent a fair bit of time there.

    I heard an interesting take on the original conflict, from someone who worked in the Admiralty at the time - the withdrawal of HMS Endurance from the south atlantic, said to have been one of the triggers for the war, was apparently as a result of a budget spat between the MoD and the Foreign office - it had no military purpose being there, so the MoD decided they wouldn't pay for it any more and if the Foreign Office wanted it there they could bloody well pay for it, hence it got withdrawn and Argentina took it as a green light that the UK wasn't that bothered.

    I think Argentina needs to leave us alone over this. We need the remnants of Imperial glory and if we lost the Falklands we'd all end up having some horrible national psychosexual breakdown.

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