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			<title type="text">Whitechapel - People Aren&amp;#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
			<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
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			<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326066#Comment_326066" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326066#Comment_326066</id>
		<published>2012-03-06T07:00:49-08:00</published>
		<updated>2012-03-06T07:02:18-08:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Finagle</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5254</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			Are humans smart enough for democracy?  Do we in fact need enlightened philosopher-kings to produce the desired results for humanity?  (Libertarians are grinding their teeth now, I know.) 

Source: ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[Are humans smart enough for democracy?  Do we in fact need enlightened philosopher-kings to produce the desired results for humanity?  (Libertarians are grinding their teeth now, I know.) <br /><br />Source: <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/people-arent-smart-enough-democracy-flourish-scientists-185601411.html" >Here</a><br /><br />---<br /><blockquote >The democratic process relies on the assumption that citizens (the majority of them, at least) can recognize the best political candidate, or best policy idea, when they see it. But a growing body of research has revealed an unfortunate aspect of the human psyche that would seem to disprove this notion, and imply instead that democratic elections produce mediocre leadership and policies.<br /><br />The research, led by David Dunning, a psychologist at Cornell University, shows that incompetent people are inherently unable to judge the competence of other people, or the quality of those people's ideas. For example, if people lack expertise on tax reform, it is very difficult for them to identify the candidates who are actual experts. They simply lack the mental tools needed to make meaningful judgments.</blockquote><br />---<br /><br />Discuss amongst yourselves.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326073#Comment_326073" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326073#Comment_326073</id>
		<published>2012-03-06T07:38:18-08:00</published>
		<updated>2012-03-06T07:42:16-08:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Paul Duffield</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			Seems a bit obvious to me! Politics, economics, running a country, all highly complex things which require a huge amount of expertise, research and knowledge to even begin to understand. Democracy ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[Seems a bit obvious to me! Politics, economics, running a country, all highly complex things which require a huge amount of expertise, research and knowledge to even begin to understand. Democracy shifts the emphasis onto getting and staying elected, encouraging short term goals and public promotion over long term stability. Not to mention trusting in an electorate who are by and large not experts in running a country. You don't have to call an electorate incompetent to point out that the majority won't have spent their life studying socio-economic behaviour.<br /><br />I still can't think of a better alternative though. How do you establish a meritocratic government when you can't get two people to agree on how to measure the welfare of their own nation, or when there are politicians around who think that food and shelter shouldn't be a basically enforced human right? Or when supposed experts in economics describe the health of a country in measures of growth instead of in measures of stability?]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326075#Comment_326075" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326075#Comment_326075</id>
		<published>2012-03-06T07:42:16-08:00</published>
		<updated>2012-03-06T07:42:54-08:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Finagle</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5254</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			@Paul - 

I actually agree with you.  What I find interesting about this is that it points to a fundamental spit between Europeans and Americans.  Americans tend to believe in the &quot;have a beer ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[@Paul - <br /><br />I actually agree with you.  What I find interesting about this is that it points to a fundamental spit between Europeans and Americans.  Americans tend to believe in the "have a beer with" test for their leaders - gross simplification, I know, but there you are, we elected George W. Bush. <br /><br />If we do *agree* that the "common man" is absolutely the most incapable person of running themselves, though...what is to be done?  In Europe the solution has been largely to give up sovereign power to unelected, multinational bodies.  That will never fly in America.   <br /><br />Personally, I feel that Hollywood is our only hope.  If you can't *educate* the masses, then just give up all hope of education and outright *persuade* them through compelling narratives, a la Richard Rorty.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326076#Comment_326076" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326076#Comment_326076</id>
		<published>2012-03-06T07:47:27-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>3millionyears</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5422</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			You want to know about voting. I'm here to tell you about voting. Imagine you're locked in a huge underground nightclub filled with sinners, whores, freaks and unnameable things that rape pit bulls ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[<blockquote >You want to know about voting. I'm here to tell you about voting. Imagine you're locked in a huge underground nightclub filled with sinners, whores, freaks and unnameable things that rape pit bulls for fun. And you ain't allowed out until you all vote on what you're going to do tonight. You like to put your feet up and watch "Republican Party Reservation". They like to have sex with normal people using knives, guns and brand-new sexual organs that you did not know existed. So you vote for television, and everyone else, as far as the eye can see, votes to fuck you with switchblades. That's voting. You're welcome.</blockquote><br /><br />I always feel that if in doubt, to ask Spider...]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326077#Comment_326077" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326077#Comment_326077</id>
		<published>2012-03-06T08:17:00-08:00</published>
		<updated>2012-03-06T10:19:50-08:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Paul Duffield</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			Problem is, if I make any suggestions they'll be motivated not by my political expertise (haha, I have none), but what I've established to be the most moral goals that a government can achieve ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[Problem is, if I make any suggestions they'll be motivated not by my political expertise (haha, I have none), but what I've established to be the most moral goals that a government can achieve (things like welfare, human rights, economic stability, free speech). I don't know if those are effective policies for a government to pursue, because it depends on how you measure their effectiveness once they've been established!<br />Expertise in a rarefied subject like particle physics is easy to establish and confirm. Expertise in something as nebulous as politics - well, how the hell do you measure that beyond general level of education? We'd all be in a much better position if politics were a science, but it's not really...]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326079#Comment_326079" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326079#Comment_326079</id>
		<published>2012-03-06T08:37:27-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Horrible Warning Si</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1223</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			Course, true democracy only works when every voting individual within a system is making decisions from an entirely selfish point of view. As soon as politicians start asking us to vote &quot;for the ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[Course, true democracy only works when every voting individual within a system is making decisions from an entirely selfish point of view. As soon as politicians start asking us to vote "for the good of the country", or "to help those less well-off", or whatever-it-may-be, they're introducing complexity and chaos into a very simple, cold and rather brutal machine.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326080#Comment_326080" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326080#Comment_326080</id>
		<published>2012-03-06T08:54:37-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Slick</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5354</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			Voting should be like driving, you should have to prove your competence before being given the privilege.
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[Voting should be like driving, you should have to prove your competence before being given the privilege.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326081#Comment_326081" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326081#Comment_326081</id>
		<published>2012-03-06T09:08:49-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Flabyo</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1306</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			@Slick

Remember! Service guarentees citizenship!

(yes, I'm quoting Starship Troopers at you)
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[@Slick<br /><br />Remember! Service guarentees citizenship!<br /><br />(yes, I'm quoting Starship Troopers at you)]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326087#Comment_326087" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326087#Comment_326087</id>
		<published>2012-03-06T10:14:12-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>roadscum</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7712</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			The greatest use of democracy is in keeping the masses entertained and providing some sense of participation in decisions over which they effectively have no real control whatsoever. It is also of ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[The greatest use of democracy is in keeping the masses entertained and providing some sense of participation in decisions over which they effectively have no real control whatsoever. It is also of great use in drawing attention away from those who do effectively decide and control. <br /><br />Now bugger off, this bunker is only big enough for one and i've got no more tin foil.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326088#Comment_326088" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326088#Comment_326088</id>
		<published>2012-03-06T10:14:52-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Slick</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5354</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			@Flabyo

Nah, I was in the army, the majority of those people wouldn't pass the most basic politics test.
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[@Flabyo<br /><br />Nah, I was in the army, the majority of those people wouldn't pass the most basic politics test.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326110#Comment_326110" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326110#Comment_326110</id>
		<published>2012-03-06T17:57:59-08:00</published>
		<updated>2012-03-06T17:59:17-08:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Alan Tyson</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1299</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			I forget who said it, but there's a wonderful quote that I use all the time during election season: &quot;Democracy is the theory that the people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[I forget who said it, but there's a wonderful quote that I use all the time during election season: "Democracy is the theory that the people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."<br /><br />On the other hand, I'm pretty sure it was Winston Churchill that said "Democracy is the worst system of government ever invented, anywhere in the world. Except, of course, for all the other ones."<br /><br />Both those statements, while perhaps impossible to be called facts, ring of strong, USDA-approved truth. That they can coexist says something more interesting about democracy than either one says alone.<br /><br />I say we keep it around a while longer. We don't have a better alternative, and maybe something cool will come of it, yet. But, of course, that's just my vote.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326111#Comment_326111" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326111#Comment_326111</id>
		<published>2012-03-06T18:11:44-08:00</published>
		<updated>2012-03-06T18:11:56-08:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>DavidLejeune</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4220</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			@Si: that's a terribly Randian view of democracy. 

I'd argue that democracy, when it's working best, is like sex: if everybody is working to get everybody else off, then everyone comes away happy ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[@Si: that's a terribly Randian view of democracy. <br /><br />I'd argue that democracy, when it's working best, is like sex: if everybody is working to get everybody else off, then everyone comes away happy (excepting of course the people who only like it missionary, with the lights off, and strictly for procreational purposes. But fuck them (or don't), they're no fun). If you're only in it to get yourself off, it's terribly unsatisfying and you may as well have stayed home and had a wank instead.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326167#Comment_326167" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326167#Comment_326167</id>
		<published>2012-03-07T09:32:51-08:00</published>
		<updated>2012-03-07T09:36:18-08:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Paul Duffield</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			In general I think the principle of democracy is not to produce the most efficient results, elect the most competent people, or to give people what they want, but ensure that if a country in general ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[In general I think the principle of democracy is not to produce the most efficient results, elect the most competent people, or to give people what they want, but ensure that if a country in general dislikes what's being done to it, it can choose otherwise, en masse. I can't help but feel that although it's got a point that I agree with (there must be other, more efficient systems which create more competent governments) it's also missing the point. It's easy to forget what democracy tends to do for a nation historically speaking whilst caught up in the woes of a government that's already been democratic for generations.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326168#Comment_326168" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326168#Comment_326168</id>
		<published>2012-03-07T10:07:33-08:00</published>
		<updated>2012-03-07T10:15:45-08:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>phill_sea</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1859</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			ETA: (Disclaimer: I am an optimist.) To answer your question, I trust that the majority of people would vote appropriately for the good of themselves, and their country. 

So yes, people are good ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[ETA: (Disclaimer: I am an optimist.) To answer your question, I trust that the majority of people would vote appropriately for the good of themselves, and their country. <br /><br />So yes, people are good enough to run their own democracy, but only if it is REALLY LITERALLY NO SHIT, YES ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE HOMELESS CRAZY ON THE STREET democracy, though.<br /><br />Original post below:<br />Changing the focus just a bit, I find it very silly that the U.S. still has state representatives in an age where I carry wikipedia in my pocket. <br /><br />I think that, going forward the system should<strong > establish a recorded voting personality for everyone</strong> who turns, say, 20 years old. This personality votes on bills that are sorted and inputted into a database by paid, impartial, interpreters. IE: there is a database of proposed government stuff (Bills, laws, law changes, etc) that gets run by every single voting personality every single day --this is what the government would be doing, going forward.<br /><br /><strong >Your voting personality has range settings for healthcare, welfare, defense, NASA, etc, and will vote against any bill that falls outside those settings</strong> (say, 5% GNP going to whatever cause someone posts a bill for on a given day.)<br /><br />You can flag items and causes that are important to you, and daily they'll show up in your feed for deeper reading on your part, and you can share bills that you want your friends to vote on via FB, G+, etc, too. <br /><br />Active voting always overrules voting personality. Unless something is close to unanimous (say 95% active votes) there is a 3 day delay on all bills, law changes, etc. (I'm thinking acts/declarations of war in response to events, here...)<br /><br />The active voting and voting personalities are tied, like MMO accounts these days, to an authenticator and a password. Both are needed to change your voting personality or actively vote.<br /><br />The Government still exists to create and push information about bills and changes to laws, etc, but people get a say in everything, too, socially, and from the comfort of their mobile phones.<br /><br />Thoughts?]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326170#Comment_326170" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326170#Comment_326170</id>
		<published>2012-03-07T10:38:03-08:00</published>
		<updated>2012-03-07T10:45:09-08:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>chris murtagh</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=10639</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			@phil_sea that's what I always thought too, it's called direct democracy, and it's much closer to the reality of the old democracy in athens than our systems that were based on it.

This other ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[@phil_sea that's what I always thought too, it's called direct democracy, and it's much closer to the reality of the old democracy in athens than our systems that were based on it.<br /><br />This other argument is as old as Plato's republic, but it doesn't make much sense, what makes any of these experts worth listening to anyway. You could find plenty of economics professors who are equally respected with completely opposing opinions, having studied more doesn't necessarily mean they're right, they could probably only back up their gut responses with more obscure or intelligent reasons.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326175#Comment_326175" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326175#Comment_326175</id>
		<published>2012-03-07T11:58:31-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>city creed</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4530</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			@Si - that's almost exactly the fallacious, game theory based version of democracy described by The Trap

@Anchorbeard
&quot;Democracy is the theory that the people know what they want, and ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[@Si - that's almost exactly the fallacious, game theory based version of democracy described by <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_%28television_documentary_series%29" >The Trap</a><br /><br />@Anchorbeard<br /><blockquote >"Democracy is the theory that the people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."</blockquote><br />The wonderful H.L. Mencken<br /><br />I think the real value of democracy as the least worst form of government is that it curbs the worst excesses of those placed in positions in power - see: <em >Fuck You, Buddy</em> (part 1 of The Trap linked above, which posits that once elevated to positions of power, individuals will always take the course of action that maximises the returns to themselves). When a system stops being able to curb those excesses, as it arguably has at this moment, it's time to reform it.<br /><br />Also, it's worth bearing in mind that democracy is an idea rather than a specific model of governmental structure. At its bare bones, it's not all that different from mob rule. So-called anti-democratic structures in the context of a largely democratic government (eg, House of Lords) act as braking mechanisms on the susceptibility of career politicians to being utterly flexible in their stated beliefs (like the Smiler) according to the prevailing public/political wind.<br /><br />Tony Benn once said in an interview something along the lines of, "My mistake was trying to get the electorate impassioned about a cause. In a democracy, you don't need the electorate to be impassioned, you just need their acquiescence." (apologies for the undoubted misquote/paraphrase, hopefully the gist survives) I think there's a great deal to be learned from that about the way politicians operate in democracies. Stability is valued over progress, power is valued over principle.<br />A wise fellow once said "It can never be perfect, but it can never be doomed."]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326184#Comment_326184" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326184#Comment_326184</id>
		<published>2012-03-07T13:29:37-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Mercer Finn</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5496</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			@city creed

Very much agreed. I've read John Locke's Second Treatise far too much for my own good, but the point it makes is a powerful one: politicians need to know that the people they rule have ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[@city creed<br /><br />Very much agreed. I've read John Locke's <em >Second Treatise</em> far too much for my own good, but the point it makes is a powerful one: politicians need to know that the people they rule have the power to cashier them. This acts as an incentive for them to rule in the public interest. And like you say, democracy is an ideology as much as an institution. The idea that power / sovereignty / right ultimately resides with the people (entrusted to governments) means that there is outcry when people are oppressed.<br /><br />Modified slightly by David Hume: what's great about democracy is that it provides the opportunity of power to a larger amount of people, who have to compete for it. Again, if this competition occurs in an environment in which the people expect their interests to be represented by rulers, the risk of abuse and oppression is reduced.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326195#Comment_326195" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326195#Comment_326195</id>
		<published>2012-03-07T16:28:03-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Finagle</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5254</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			@Mercer Finn - 

Locke and Hume, though, expected their citizens to assent to their rule through reason.  If the circumstances of rule become unreasonable, both would agree that it is the duty of ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[@Mercer Finn - <br /><br />Locke and Hume, though, expected their citizens to assent to their rule through reason.  If the circumstances of rule become unreasonable, both would agree that it is the duty of the citizen to bring government back in line with rationality.<br /><br />I think I no longer believe this is possible.  I tend to align myself with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Rorty" >Richard Rorty</a>,  who at the end of the day believed that a pragmatic commitment to political leftism simply means that <em >we must teach people that cruelty is the worst thing that we do.</em>  Not through argument or reasoned discourse, but through whatever means necessary - movies, television, popular culture.  To Rorty, a writer like Upton Sinclair or better, Emile Zola is a better political philosopher than a Locke or a Hume, in the sense of their pragmatic effect on discourse.<br /><br />I no longer believe that the populace in a democracy can be *reasoned with*.   I believe the populace must be *persuaded*, which is a very different proposition.  As a political leftist, I believe it is simply my duty to get people to *feel* that cruelty and oppression is ...well, wrong.    <br /><br />Logical argumentation about this is all well and good, but it doesn't bring people to the ballot box.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326229#Comment_326229" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326229#Comment_326229</id>
		<published>2012-03-08T03:20:10-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Spike3185</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6572</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			As a human fucking being I find it scary that anyone should need to be persuaded to believe that cruelty and oppression are wrong.  I feel like there needs to be some rule whereby people who approve ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[As a human fucking being I find it scary that anyone should need to be persuaded to believe that cruelty and oppression are wrong.  I feel like there needs to be some rule whereby people who approve of these things end up being on the receiving end so they actually see the consequences of taking that stance.  People who want power are usually the least qualified to deal with it anyway.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326234#Comment_326234" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326234#Comment_326234</id>
		<published>2012-03-08T05:45:59-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Red Deathy</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=10493</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			Condorcets Jury theorem to the rescue.  Given it only requires a &gt;50% chance of any voter making a correct decision, and 50% is wild guessing, then any democratic polity with even limited ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet%27s_jury_theorem" >Condorcets Jury theorem</a> to the rescue.  Given it only requires a >50% chance of any voter making a correct decision, and 50% is wild guessing, then any democratic polity with even limited information is more likely than not to arrive at a correct decision.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326237#Comment_326237" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326237#Comment_326237</id>
		<published>2012-03-08T06:17:12-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Jason A. Quest</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5192</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			Democracy fails to elect the best people as leaders, but it is generally pretty good at not putting the worst people in positions of leadership either. That usually takes heredity, military coup, or ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[Democracy fails to elect the best people as leaders, but it is generally pretty good at not putting the <em >worst </em>people in positions of leadership either. That usually takes heredity, military coup, or political appointment.  For example, democratic elections denied Hitler the presidency, but an appointment made him chancellor.  I'll take mediocrity over tyranny.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326254#Comment_326254" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326254#Comment_326254</id>
		<published>2012-03-08T10:32:42-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>StefanJ</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=961</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			Yeah, what Jason said.

Another way to get around the Idiocracy factor are multiple levels of government, elected representatives, and systems of checks and balances. All of which we do.

The ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[Yeah, what Jason said.<br /><br />Another way to get around the Idiocracy factor are multiple levels of government, elected representatives, and systems of checks and balances. All of which we do.<br /><br />The challenges ahead of us boil down to two things:<br /><br />One: How do we adapt systems that have worked in the past to current technological and economic circumstances? The mass media has magnified the ability of the very wealthy and powerful to warp political process. <br /><br />Two: How do we make people smarter? I'm not talking about genetic engineering or eugenics or smartness tests for voting. I'm talking about doing the best with what we've got. Better childhood health care and nutrition, better early childhood education, civics classes, a commitment to giving a damn about democracy rather than letting things fall into the hands of hot-heads, greed-heads, and ideologues.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326255#Comment_326255" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326255#Comment_326255</id>
		<published>2012-03-08T11:10:13-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>looneynerd</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5373</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			Two: How do we make people smarter? I'm not talking about genetic engineering or eugenics or smartness tests for voting. I'm talking about doing the best with what we've got. Better childhood health ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[<blockquote >Two: How do we make people smarter? I'm not talking about genetic engineering or eugenics or smartness tests for voting. I'm talking about doing the best with what we've got. Better childhood health care and nutrition, better early childhood education, civics classes, a commitment to giving a damn about democracy rather than letting things fall into the hands of hot-heads, greed-heads, and ideologues.</blockquote><br /><br />I'm not really sure any of this is possible with the highly polarized political landscape in America today. Significant change either seems to take a massive amount of time (Allowing Gays in the military took over a decade between Clinton getting the ball rolling with DADT and Obama finally repealing it). Most republicans will do anything they can to limit childhood health care and nutrition (they'll lump any proposals for such under "obamacare" or some similar "socialist" label). Better education would be great, but we're in a country where there are some people who truly believe that the best thing we can do is eliminate public education (IE Rand Paul, his crazy father, and the relatively large number of people who have voted for them both). <br /><br />I think the primary problem with American Democracy (and I think there are lots, I am, after all, something of a Monarchist) is that it is a hard and set two-party system. Because of first across the post voting, third party candidates have almost zero chance of winning in any significant election. With only two parties, people are naturally going to polarize. We've seen the number of moderates in congress steadily decreasing over the last few years as a result of this.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326266#Comment_326266" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326266#Comment_326266</id>
		<published>2012-03-08T13:50:54-08:00</published>
		<updated>2012-03-08T13:52:36-08:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Jason A. Quest</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5192</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			(&quot;Gays in the military&quot; has actually been in progress since at least the 1940s, when Gen. Eisenhower quietly called off a hunt for lesbians in the Women's Army Corps, after a senior WAC ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[("Gays in the military" has actually been in progress since at least the 1940s, when Gen. Eisenhower quietly called off a hunt for lesbians in the Women's Army Corps, after a senior WAC officer and Ike's own secretary warned him that it'd eliminate too many essential personnel... including them.)]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326270#Comment_326270" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326270#Comment_326270</id>
		<published>2012-03-08T15:46:47-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>RenThing</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=155</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			Holy shit, hey Looneynerd!
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[Holy shit, hey Looneynerd!]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326295#Comment_326295" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326295#Comment_326295</id>
		<published>2012-03-08T23:25:05-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Koltreg</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=9605</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			I think if we got people to remember that we are all part of the same greater society things would be better. I've lived in (and currently live in) a small town where people will rally to help one ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[I think if we got people to remember that we are all part of the same greater society things would be better. I've lived in (and currently live in) a small town where people will rally to help one small family but be overly suspicious of larger help movements. I've lived in suburbs where people would rather donate to some larger cause than trust local causes with their money.<br />Too often we create more and more divides from nation, race, gender and sexuality that keep us fron progressing by coming together and there was a time these were helpful rules, despite obvious issues, but they were the cornerstones of civilization - law and religion.<br /><br />Though I do think the easiest way to improve democracy would be having a test to see if people are informed enough to vote. They should be able to argue for both sides equally well so it doesn't become blind name calling and slogans which hurt modern politics. If we didn't call the abortion debate sides pro-life and pro-choice we'd have a more intelligent discourse on the need for women to choose.<br /><br />Also I think people on Yahoo comments who can't spell should gain lifetime bans from voting. That would increase the average IQ of the voters.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326297#Comment_326297" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326297#Comment_326297</id>
		<published>2012-03-09T00:44:44-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Mercer Finn</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5496</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			@Finagle

Locke and Hume, though, expected their citizens to assent to their rule through reason

Definitely not true of Hume, who is quite clear that government is based on the opinion of the ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[@Finagle<br /><br /><blockquote >Locke and Hume, though, expected their citizens to assent to their rule through reason</blockquote><br /><br />Definitely not true of Hume, who is <a href="http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=704&chapter=137484&layout=html&Itemid=27" >quite clear</a> that government is based on the <em >opinion</em> of the people. Locke does put a heavy stress on reason, but 'reason' means different things to different people. For Locke, everyone who isn't a minor or insane has a feeling of self-worth as a creature of God, and a duty to preserve other creatures of God -- making anyone who fucks with that an apostate and a criminal.<br /><br />I think I understand what you mean abt Rorty. All I would like to suggest is that Locke's <em >Second Treatise</em> is a popular pamphlet as much as a work of philosophy. Hume wrote his political theory in essays because he wanted to influence people's opinions. What I'm trying to say is that appeals to reason should be mistrusted, and that you cannot remove rhetoric from even the driest philosophical text.<br /><br />The above is a bit academic, apologies everyone. This was my stomping ground at university...]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326382#Comment_326382" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326382#Comment_326382</id>
		<published>2012-03-10T03:58:02-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Osmosis</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=866</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			I'm not really sure any of this is possible with the highly polarized political landscape in America today. Significant change either seems to take a massive amount of time.But that is kind of the ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[<blockquote >I'm not really sure any of this is possible with the highly polarized political landscape in America today. Significant change either seems to take a massive amount of time.</blockquote>But that is kind of the point of the American system - even the president can only shift things a few inches either way, due to the inbuilt checks, weights and balances.  I'm inclined to think that this is probably a good thing, assuming that the <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/olympia-snowe-why-im-leaving-the-senate/2012/03/01/gIQApGYZlR_story.html" >other parts of the system are working correctly</a>.<blockquote >I think the primary problem with American Democracy (and I think there are lots, I am, after all, something of a Monarchist) is that it is a hard and set two-party system. Because of first across the post voting, third party candidates have almost zero chance of winning in any significant election. </blockquote>I think part of this is to do with who gets to set political boundaries.  As I recall, in the US it's a politically-affiliated board somewhere in Congress?  So the incentive is for party officials to draw the boundaries to include only their voters so as to be more likely to win, which then means that to win in that area you have to appeal to party people, which means tending to more polarised positions.  I remember reading up on the British three-party system a few years ago, and the general tone of the articles I read was, "Hmm. This shouldn't work."  Whether or not the survival of a UK-wide third party can be directly attributed to the independent Boundaries Commission, I don't know.  <br /><br />Also: holy shit, hey Looneynerd!]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326384#Comment_326384" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326384#Comment_326384</id>
		<published>2012-03-10T05:43:30-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>PatrickBrown</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1800</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			There are all sorts of abuses that take place under democracy, but generally they take place under totalitarian, bureaucratic and aristocratic systems as well, as do much worse ones. Democracy is ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[There are all sorts of abuses that take place under democracy, but generally they take place under totalitarian, bureaucratic and aristocratic systems as well, as do much worse ones. Democracy is rather a free press - it may result in unpleasant things, but it's way better than its absence.<br /><br />Whatever system of government you have, you'll end up with the same corrupt, ambitious sociopaths who get their kicks out of climbing whatever greasy pole is available to them in positions of power. But the nature of the greasy pole determines how they can govern. Whether climbing it requires sucking up to an absolute monarch who thinks he's God's representative on earth, negotiating the ways of a self-perpetuating bureaucratic machine, fulfilling the class interests of a ruling caste, or satisfying a broad consensus of the population as a whole, then that's the sort of government you'll get. I know which I prefer.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326415#Comment_326415" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326415#Comment_326415</id>
		<published>2012-03-10T13:03:03-08:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Foamhead</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=8779</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			Old but nominally relevant.


		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[Old but nominally relevant.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GDuIvZkLun8" ></a>]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326479#Comment_326479" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326479#Comment_326479</id>
		<published>2012-03-11T10:50:24-07:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>magnusisasillyname</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=10358</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			^^ This is awesome. How have I never seen it before?
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[^^ This is awesome. How have I never seen it before?]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326527#Comment_326527" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326527#Comment_326527</id>
		<published>2012-03-12T05:49:58-07:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>cjkoger</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7065</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			My thoughts exactly.  And, sharing...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[My thoughts exactly.  And, sharing...]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326551#Comment_326551" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326551#Comment_326551</id>
		<published>2012-03-12T12:13:37-07:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>looneynerd</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5373</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			As I recall, in the US it's a politically-affiliated board somewhere in Congress? So the incentive is for party officials to draw the boundaries to include only their voters so as to be more likely ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[<blockquote >As I recall, in the US it's a politically-affiliated board somewhere in Congress? So the incentive is for party officials to draw the boundaries to include only their voters so as to be more likely to win, which then means that to win in that area you have to appeal to party people, which means tending to more polarised positions.</blockquote><br /><br />It depends on the state. Technically, under the 1965 Voting Rights Act, Gerrymandering (the act of re-drawing voting districts to advantage certain candidates or political parties) is illegal. But some states have won supreme court battles that allow them to continue to do so, at least in state-level elections. The problem was less severe when states were required to only redistrict areas after the census (held once every ten years) but this rule has also be laid by the wayside. <br /><br />American democracy (and, as far as I can tell, most western Democracies) big problem is the nature of campaign funding. The richest candidate almost always wins, whether we're talking about local council elections all the way up to the Presidential one (I remember reading a statistic that said the candidate with the most money available has won every presidential election since Jefferson). It keeps people with largely similar goal in power, regardless of party affiliation. <br /><br />Then you've got the electoral college which is a whole special clusterfuck all on its own. I spent several hours in a bar in Istanbul several years ago trying to explain that a majority of americans had not in fact voted for Bush, and that the electoral college was responsible for his election.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326920#Comment_326920" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326920#Comment_326920</id>
		<published>2012-03-16T07:37:52-07:00</published>
		<updated>2012-03-16T07:47:34-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Solario</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=58</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			@Koltreg,


&quot;Though I do think the easiest way to improve democracy would be having a test to see if people are informed enough to vote. They should be able to argue for both sides equally ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[@Koltreg,<br /><br /><br />"Though I do think the easiest way to improve democracy would be having a test to see if people are informed enough to vote. They should be able to argue for both sides equally well so it doesn't become blind name calling and slogans which hurt modern politics. If we didn't call the abortion debate sides pro-life and pro-choice we'd have a more intelligent discourse on the need for women to choose."<br /><br />That's assuming both sides are equal, rationally, which they aren't necessarily; otherwise there's no such thing as a better argument. I understand the wish for more neutral framing, but I simply don't think it exists. Discourse will always be inherently bias. If we start calling it pro-abortion and anti-abortion, we're already painting one side as negative and one as positive, and then there's the discussion on what connotations the word abortion conjures up. Objectivity and neutrality doesn't exist. We can explicate our bias, but we can't avoid them.<br /><br />Ultimately, I don't believe that instruments are inherently good or bad, but they can certainly be used for good or bad things. I wish logos was more well-regarded and used a bit more as an appeal form, but I certainly don't believe that it should be the only one. Logos is intended to create long-term conviction, because the argument can be recited and critiqued again and again by someone, but pathos is a great way to create short-term convictions, which is why most NGO's might have great arguments for donating to help the poor, but if they want people to actually donate, they throw on a 30 second video featuring a starving child.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326982#Comment_326982" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=326982#Comment_326982</id>
		<published>2012-03-17T16:22:27-07:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>jimmyjungle</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4591</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			Plant shamanism is the best cure I know for idiocy and apathy...
if undertaken in conjunction with all these other ideas you all are kicking about...that's the recipe for ultimate,liberated ...
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[Plant shamanism is the best cure I know for idiocy and apathy...<br />if undertaken in conjunction with all these other ideas you all are kicking about...that's the recipe for ultimate,liberated humanity,as far as i can see...here's a good 'un...http://www.realitysandwich.com/answer_henry_baum]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<title>People Aren&#039;t Smart Enough for Democracy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=327001#Comment_327001" type="application/xhtml+xml" hreflang="en"/>
		<id>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=10535&amp;Focus=327001#Comment_327001</id>
		<published>2012-03-18T04:11:48-07:00</published>
		<updated>2013-06-17T23:05:47-07:00</updated>
		<author>
			<name>Jason A. Quest</name>
			<uri>http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5192</uri>
		</author>
		<summary type="text" xml:lang="en">
			Everybody thinks that their preferred brand of magic is the answer. That's part of the problem.
		</summary>
		<content type="html">
			<![CDATA[Everybody thinks that their preferred brand of magic is the answer. That's part of the problem.]]>
		</content>
	</entry>
	
		</feed>