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  1.  (10813.21)
    Okay, so I read Cerebus years and years ago. And only about a half of it. And I retain little information for long (just my brain), and I don't remember reading anything particularly harmful towards woman, but had heard that there was some pretty damning stuff in the second half. To save myself a little frustration I didn't read it. Period.

    I picked up a couple of issues of Glamourpuss, the last one having a letter in it that I found quite shocking. Despite what you may think of Dave Sim, he has given his life to a body of work, has dedicated himself to a medium and it seems like few give a shit. Sure Glamourpuss isn't going to be breaking any records of any sort, but it is a testament of love for the medium, and the work of a madman. So, I decided to get some opinions as to why someone whom I haven't read a whole hell of a lot about, but who seems to care about the medium, and has some talent in some fashion has been tossed to the curb. Question answered.

    @oddbill My questions may not seem overly related, or that well thought out, and they aren't, but I'm asking them all the same, because I'm curious about them. I didn't realize that each and every question on a message board had to be interrelated, my goal was to promote discussion on a topic that was bothering me. And sure my attention shifted halfway through, but I do believe that (in my mind) it is related. Indie creators have a hard time letting people know their work is around (as you've mentioned), and as Dave Sim is a major contemporary figure in comics I thought we might discuss the creators that aren't damned for their politics, and are plugging away at work in relative obscurity for the LOVE of the medium.

    Sure I am shifting attention away from the topic I chose, but if Dave Sim is damned to go down for his politics (as the majority seems to have pointed their thumbs down) than perhaps it is better to discuss those that are worth talking about. @william Thanks for the suggestions, I've read a little of Sin Titulo, but I have never read any of Tim Hamilton's works. I have a hard time reading comics on a screen.

    Or we could talk more about Dave Sim, and why I should be convinced to revisit his major body of work?
    •  
      CommentAuthoroddbill
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2012 edited
     (10813.22)
    he has given his life to a body of work, has dedicated himself to a medium


    And I'm arguing that this is utterly valueless and worth nothing, nor should it in and of itself be worth anything. If someone devotes themselves to an activity to the exclusion of most of the rest of life, that is not something worthy of praise for itself. That "Despite what you may think" that you preface it with is, in fact, the only part that matters. Not that someone spent their life making comics, but what comics did they make.

    Look, Charles Crumb spent most of his life scribbling in notebooks like this:



    then he died. Nobody cares. Nor should they.

    Devoting your life to something does not confer worth onto that thing, or the monomaniacal devotion to it. If it drives you to reclusion (or is a symptom of mental disorder), that is not ennobling.
  2.  (10813.23)
    Truth in those words @oddbill. I see your point. I would argue that point though, as it seems like a somewhat nihilistic take on the world. I give worth to those things that I deem worth my attention, and in doing this I have given worth to Dave Sim and his effort with Cerebus. I admire the focus and attention needed to craft thousands of pages of art, and in my eyes, I deem Cerebus to be a work that I am awed by, if only by the sheer staggering madness that drives one to do it (I am not insinuating here that Dave Sim is mad, but rather that the act would likely have driven me close to madness).

    I have no idea who Charles Crumb is, I like Robert Crumb (as my mania is fixated on comics,) so the fact that he wrote a bunch of shit in books means absolutely nothing to me at all, but for someone it is probably the bees knees, they confer the worth onto his work with their will as I have done with Dave Sim's.
    •  
      CommentAuthoroddbill
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2012
     (10813.24)
    Charles Crumb is Robert's brother. You should watch the documentary Crumb.
  3.  (10813.25)
    I have. That memory is just not doing it for me. Zwigoff.
  4.  (10813.26)
    Or should I say my memory is not doing it for me. I remember now that you've mentioned it. I forget about 90% of everything that I read. Shame really, but I blame it on the drugs.
    •  
      CommentAuthoroddbill
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2012 edited
     (10813.27)
    How can you have watched that film and not remember Charles? He is such a huge part of the film. Robert throughout is constantly talking about how much he thinks his brother Charles is a better artist.

    (edit: posted before your second post appeared.)
    •  
      CommentAuthorkperkins
    • CommentTimeSep 4th 2012
     (10813.28)
    Oh well, Ray Petibon used to be "Greg Ginn's brother", now it seems to be the other way around. Such is the vagaries of life. It's a crap shoot. People take to some things, and not others, at some times and not others. It just wasn't "Glamourpuss time".
  5.  (10813.29)
  6.  (10813.30)
    So very grim, but he's right about it being "doomed to failure from Day 1." It was a vanity project, albeit a gorgeously illustrated one, but I honestly don't know a single person who wasn't me I could have recommended Glamourpuss to. I hope Sim decides to get back to straight storytelling at some point, and maybe try a few things in the 12-issue range.
    • CommentAuthorWood
    • CommentTimeSep 9th 2012
     (10813.31)
    I could tell Dave Sim was getting desperate a few years ago already, when Cerebus started getting published in France, which meant Sim handed over control over his work to a publisher.
    • CommentAuthorWood
    • CommentTimeSep 11th 2012
     (10813.32)
  7.  (10813.33)
    maybe if Sim wants to continue publishing Glamourpuss, he should sell the early Cerebus books digitally and have Glamourpuss as a backup feature as an "added value". this way work of his that more people want to read is available and he can continue making Glamourpuss for the die hard fans.
  8.  (10813.34)
    I was actually talking about Glamourpuss to the guy at my local comic store the other day, and he was talking about how he managed to sell it to women 15-25 or so- as a fashion comic. The clothes were real, and named. The illustration was good enough to sell it. I looked at the pretty pictures and saved my actual reading for the cartooning history stuff, so that passed right over my head, but apparently there's a market for fashion illustration he was doing.
    • CommentAuthorArgos
    • CommentTimeSep 12th 2012
     (10813.35)
    Kind of ironic. It really is great illustration, though. Much as I can't stand what he has to say about my ilk, I can't deny him his talents.
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      CommentAuthormister hex
    • CommentTimeSep 13th 2012
     (10813.36)
    I own a fanzine (circa ... 1972? 1975? Not sure, ain't seen it in a while) with early Sim artwork. "Crude" is one word to describe it but ... there's something THERE. His art has developed fantastically over the years (even as his brain has ... well. )

    @ James - I agree, there's a market for what he's done. The Comics Market is apparently not it. And as an infrequent purchaser of Glamourpuss, I never really got what he was talking about with the strips that I never saw and were before my time. Had he I don't know, done a strip about the sweat-shop bullpen days of early comics (or even just early Marvel) I would've read the SHIT outta that.
    •  
      CommentAuthormister hex
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2012 edited
     (10813.37)
    Now THIS is interesting ...

    http://www.bleedingcool.com/forums/front-page-comic-news/62513-dave-sim-mark-millar.html
  9.  (10813.38)
    Maybe Sim just wants to bitch and moan. Slapping back offers to help is not cool.
    • CommentAuthorandycon
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2012
     (10813.39)
    well to his credit he didnt completely dismiss them, just said there are a lot of factors that need to be thought through.

    also when an offer is kinda/sorta/totally insulting to 1/3 of your life's work I'd get a bit defensive as well.

    I just love how in the middle he goes off on this crazy hemmingway/Fitzgerald ramble that only Dave Sim can. The guy really needs an agent/manager to listen to his ramblings and break them down into normal people responses. Basically he needs to hire his ex-wife to come back and run the business end of things again. (From what it looks like from the kickstarter e-mails she is going to be doing a bunch of audio stuff for the ebooks so it seems they are back on good terms again)
    • CommentAuthorWood
    • CommentTimeOct 7th 2012
     (10813.40)