Whitechapel - Rise Of The US Election Thread

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-14T13:58:53-07:00

We haven't had one since the start of the year and the season is well and truly upon us.

Mitt Romney's lies of the week:

msnbc

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-14T15:41:01-07:00

Of vital interest to those in Wanking-American community:

In Meetings With Anti-Pornography Group, Romney Campaign Promised To Prosecute Porn

WASHINGTON, DC — Mitt Romney’s campaign told a leading anti-pornography group that the Republican nominee will pursue and prosecute pornography if elected president.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-14T15:43:09-07:00

politics aside, someone who is against naked ladies, promiscuity, ALCOHOL and combining the three is someone who should be kissing my ass, not running for any sort of position

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-14T15:57:50-07:00

Mormons are a bit strange that way. I had a Mormon roommate for two years who allowed herself to have coca-cola during finals week. I always think back on that when I hear about how Mittens said he once took a sip of beer and then felt terrible about it.

One the one hand, I hear about all the things he plans on doing and it frightens me, but on the other, I remember how just a few years ago he was a pro-choice (politically, not personally) moderate. He does whatever will make him the most popular, and flip-flops based on the voices yelling at him. Right now he's trying to win over the extreme right, but should he actually be president, I'm not sure he'd actually do everything he said he would. He might flip-flop all over again if polls showed that he would get the most amount of citizen support if he changed his position on everything.

I'm also worried that if he were to be president, we're gonna go through that whole ordeal we went through with Bush where everyone's embarrassed to admit we're from the U.S. because they can't present themselves well overseas. Mitt's already made an international fool of himself.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-14T16:18:01-07:00

Genuine question from an external observer. How difficult would it be for an independent/minority party to get into party. Not a majority position, but a role of influence. Is the system too stacked towards the two party system these days?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-14T16:44:43-07:00

Pretty difficult. There have been independents in Congress, both in the Senate and House of Rep., but currently there are just 2 independent senators. There have also been independent governors, but currently we only have 1. I don't think there have every been any other minor party politicians in any roles of influence, at least not since the U.S. became pretty established as a two party system. It really is too stacked towards being a two party system, unfortunately.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-14T18:35:48-07:00

There are many different "3rd Party" office holders on the local and state level across the country. It becomes a problem in national politics because so many people are invested in the current two major parties, which have decades long histories. If any third party candidate ever becomes even remotely popular on a national level (in recent presidential races those would be Ross Perot and Ralph Nader) all they can even remotely hope to do is peel some voters away from the national party that is most closely aligned with their goals (in Perot's case it was Republicans, in Nader's Democrats) so, best case scenario for a third party candidate is that they hamstring the mainstream party candidate most closely aligned with their goals and effectively hand the election over to the other party, insuring their goals are not only not achieved, but rather actively worked against for 4 years.

So, it is really self-defeating to run a 3rd party presidential candidate.

The only way 3rd Parties can influence Presidential elections is by aligning themselves with one of the two major parties and through internal maneuvers pull that party in the direction they want it to go. The Tea Party has done this with the Republicans in a way the Green Party persists in failing to do with the Democrats as the Tea Party chose alignment while the Greens keep choosing opposition.

None of that is going to change any time soon and people dissatisfied with it need to pick the one of the two that are closer to their desire, help that one win and keep pushing from the inside to get that one to move in directions they want it to. Any other course is effectively capitulation to the worst of your opposition.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-17T16:06:11-07:00

In a secretly-recorded video made at a closed-door fundraiser with fellow millionaires,, Mitt Romney shoved his foot so far into this mouth that the toe of this shoes poked out his ass.

During a private fundraiser earlier this year, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney told a small group of wealthy contributors what he truly thinks of all the voters who support President Barack Obama. He dismissed these Americans as freeloaders who pay no taxes, who don't assume responsibility for their lives, and who think government should take care of them. Fielding a question from a donor about how he could triumph in November, Romney replied:

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax."

Romney went on: "[M]y job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

The 47% that Romney refers to . . . why don't they pay any income tax? Kevin Drum explains:
Why the Poor Pay No Federal Income Tax: A Wee Tutorial

Edit:

Oh, wow. A map of the U.S.A., showing where the shiftless non-income-tax-paying parasites live:

http://twitpic.com/avrlm4

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-17T16:52:12-07:00

#third parties

American politics doesn't need a single third party; it needs four parties. Each of the two major parties has an extreme wing represented by an existing party. The Republicans have pretty much rejected Libertarian politics as a cancer in their midst, and that wing should just get peeled off and cede the Republican party to the Southern White Christian Male party.

Similarly, the Green party / Naderite wing of the Democratic party has very little to do with the business-friendly soft progressivism of Clinton and Obama, and should also fully spin off into its own viable party.

I realize both of these parties technically exist, but because of winner-take-all electoral laws, there's no hope of getting proportional representation of these parties' interests on a national scale. The U.S. electoral system forces large blocs of votes and actively works against any sort of parliamentary representation.

A third party may *replace* one of the existing two parties, as happened to the Whigs, but until the electoral system is reformed, there will never be any sort of vibrant 'third party' movement that is viable on a national scale without simply robbing from and replacing one of the other two parties.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T00:46:19-07:00

The release of the candid Romney video kicks this whole campaign up a notch, can see the gloves coming off and it getting *really* nasty now.

Fun viewing from this side of the pond anyway, as long as you don't think about the aftermath too much.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T01:33:15-07:00

It actually doesn't have to get nasty. The Obama camp can just continue to govern and watch the Romney team tear itself apart trying to wriggle themselves out of this.

If the President really wants to stick the knife in, he doesn't need to say a word about Romney. All he needs to do is give a speech, or an answer to a press question, in which he talks about the 47% who pay no income tax, (though most of them do pay payroll taxes! As he is sure they know better than he does!) because they are old, and have contributed over long lives, so now have earned a well deserved break, or working poor and in need of every dollar to lift themselves out of poverty, or middle-class working families with one parent working and the other raising two kids, who make so little that their exemptions cancel out their tax, or students, preparing for the future... people America believes in, and is willing to invest in. Our families, friends and neighbors. Half of the country. Americans that he has worked every day for the past 4 years to insure have a brighter, healthier, more prosperous future.

The end.

The Romney campaign will walk another two weeks on stumps before they even realize how neatly he sliced them off at the knees.

I hope something like his happens.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T03:13:15-07:00

Waiting for the "I AM THE 47%" macros and t-shirts now.

The sheer venemous lilt to Romney's voice when he said the word *entitled* is the most revealing part to me. They're called entitlements for a reason. Yes, the poor *are* entitled to some basic level of help...that's what the law says. It isn't a filthy word.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T04:14:33-07:00

I thought the Republican Party wanted to lower taxes.Not paying taxes at all seems pretty low to me. The Republicans are just jealous of 47% of the population.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T06:03:48-07:00

Is Mitt only running because he's afraid Obama will tax his money? Like...his own personal money in the bank.

Is this whole thing about Mitt trying to "protect" his personal wealth from goverernment?

I'm really really starting to think it is....

That's fucked up.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T07:23:48-07:00

More stuff leaking, including some great insight into his views on the middle east peace process...

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T07:24:45-07:00

The Republicans do want to lower taxes, and some extremists want no taxes. Romney likes to play the whole "well we should have just a tiny bit of taxes, only a smidge" game while using the 47% as a scapegoat for all of America's problems because, as people who don't pay taxes (which is a misnomer, as Oddbill pointed out), they are freeloading off the government and basically being societal parasites. Which is a crock of shit given the fact that Romney keeps his money in the Cayman Islands so he can avoid paying taxes when he can well afford them :|

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T09:36:41-07:00

@TF
That's something I've been thinking about for a while.

Mitt Romney has this unusual retirement account--despite being legally limited to contributions of $30k/yr, his IRA is valued at "somewhere around 20 to 100 million dollars." What I've read, from speculation about how and why on the part of other investors and former colleagues, is that this probably happened by taking a $30k investment, sticking it in the fund, and having it grow over the years.

A lot of people are confused about why he would do this. Taxes are deferred on IRA contributions, but when you withdraw the funds, they're taxed as regular income, not investment income. (It's apparently a net gain if you can set this up early in your career.) Mitt will be legally required to begin withdrawing money from the fund when he's 70. I keep thinking "What if he's trying to get the tax rate down by then?" It'd be a weird reason to run for president.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T10:10:13-07:00

@Steve Toase and Finagle

How difficult would it be for an independent/minority party to get into party. Not a majority position, but a role of influence. Is the system too stacked towards the two party system these days? and American politics doesn't need a single third party; it needs four parties.

So, the problem with the US' party system is that it is stacked against third parties in a variety of ways.

One, a political party in the US must qualify state by state. Each state has its own rules on how a third party can get "qualified" status, meaning that it has, usually, a significant number of people enough to count as an actual political party rather than as a bunch of weirdos who decided to form their own club. These hoops are difficult to get through because they require the time to go out and organize people under the new party, time, making sure the people actually register as the new party, and paperwork. Doing this 50 times, jumping through different hoops each time, would be a monumental effort. Keeping people's interests high enough would also be difficult; in California if your registered number of voters drops below a certain point you lose your status. When I was working for the elections department in California from 2000-2004 we only had three "third-party" parties, the American Independent Party, the Green, and the Reform parties.

Two, you'll never see a big, off-shoot of one party into a third party because as much as the Goldwater Republicans might wish they could kick out the Religious Right or the Tea Partiers from the GOP, removing those votes from their party would basically hand any and all elections over to the Dems based on the election rules, as Finagle pointed out. Because of that, they'd rather swallow their distaste for each other, hold their nose, and vote alongside them, which is the only reason I can think of why GOProud and the Log Cabin Republicans are with them.

People keep saying that Mittens has lost the election based on that secret video. The people who are saying that don't get that video isn't going to turn off anyone who was going to vote for him to begin with. Many, many conservatives I've talked to feel aligned with the opinions he put forward.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T10:43:02-07:00

@RenThing -- elections aren't won with just your base, it really depends on how many of the swing voters you can get in battleground states. The reason the pundits are saying Mitt's lost the election for this -- an aside, isn't this the second or third time they're saying it? -- is it reinforces the narrative of Mitt not caring about the middle class and poor Americans and having a rather simple-minded take on foreign policy. The GOP and Teabaggers will vote team Romney for the most part, but his serial stupidity on the campaign trail is pushing more of the undecideds away and firing up the Democratic base. If the election looks like a lost cause, Republicans will stay away in droves on voting day making this even worse to be developing at point in the timeline.

There's no time for a campaign reset and it's increasingly looking like Obama is pulling away. Pundits are saying Romney needs the debates to swing his way, but that's being said to keep the news audience engaged -- we've seen Romney during the primaries struggling to get ahead of a complete pack of morons, we've seen him in past debates getting slammed by people like Ted Kennedy, and I don't imagine he'll transform into someone who can effectively and clearly beat Obama in any of the formats or topics set up.

~R

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T10:59:36-07:00

I actually don't think the 47% thing will explode his campaign, as it seems pretty clear that there are more people voting against Obama than for Romney. At least that's what it seems like to me. But Romney is really doing a shitty job at courting the independents and undecided. The convention, which was supposed to make him out to be a warm, fuzzy teddybear saviour of the economy failed. The whole thing ended with fact checkers crying, people confused at him saying that he'd be looking out for the very people that his policies will alienate and me wanting to give him a gold star for at least TRYING to emote. Not to mention Clint Eastwoods surreal speech and Sen. Marco Rubio's scary christian rant.

A question, and forgive the ignorance on it but I'm not too up to date but...if Romney won will there be much change? By that I mean will it be, like Obama, another four years of cockblocking? It's been frustrating to see Obama's attempts at bridging the gap between the two parties in order to get some shit done shot down simply because he's a democrat and with Romney not really showing many signs of a desire to bridge that gap will it just be democrats stopping Romney for the hell of it?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T11:13:32-07:00

"A third party may *replace* one of the existing two parties, as happened to the Whigs..."

It's important to note that this only happened after the Whig party self-destructed due to in-fighting over the question of slavery. The Republican party was formed by the faction of the Whigs who opposed it (e.g. Lincoln). Likewise, the Whig party formed only after the Federalists had disbanded, leaving the Democratic party (then called "Democratic-Republican") in charge of a one-party state. A third party has never developed to overtake one of the two dominant parties in the American system. If a Libertarian or Green party is ever going to become a major player in US politics, it will be over the dead body of the Republican or Democratic party.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T11:26:23-07:00

@Richard Pace - "elections aren't won with just your base, it really depends on how many of the swing voters you can get in battleground states"

The thing is, I haven't heard that many voters who, while not aligned with a major party (such as myself), who haven't already made their minds up. With Mittens having already run a presidential campaign before, and Obama being the incumbent, I have the feeling that many people already had their minds made up and the number of people that are being swayed is a less than people would make it out to be.

"The reason the pundits are saying Mitt's lost the election for this -- an aside, isn't this the second or third time they're saying it? -- is it reinforces the narrative of Mitt not caring about the middle class and poor Americans and having a rather simple-minded take on foreign policy."

And, you see, that's where I point out that this has been the message on Romney since 2008. This isn't new news, it's so old it''s got dust and McCain's fingerprints on it. Anyone with a pulse, who's been paying attention, and isn't blinded by party ideology wouldn't be surprised by this and that's why I don't think this is as bad as the pundits are making it out to be. I think the current narrative of "OMG, ROMNEY IS TEH LOSS" has more to do with the last sentence where you said "if the election looks like a lost cause, Republicans will stay away in droves on voting day"; I think that's the narrative they're really trying to push.

"we've seen Romney during the primaries struggling to get ahead of a complete pack of morons, we've seen him in past debates getting slammed by people like Ted Kennedy, and I don't imagine he'll transform into someone who can effectively and clearly beat Obama in any of the formats or topics set up. "

Have to agree with you. Considering the amount of flip-flopping he's done, and his own record, he's going to need some majorly negative talking points on Obama to shore himself up. Obama's a more eloquent speaker in the moment and he's better in the debate.

@old hat

".if Romney won will there be much change? By that I mean will it be, like Obama, another four years of cockblocking? It's been frustrating to see Obama's attempts at bridging the gap between the two parties in order to get some shit done shot down simply because he's a democrat and with Romney not really showing many signs of a desire to bridge that gap will it just be democrats stopping Romney for the hell of it?"

I don't know if it would be "for the hell of it". I think that if there was some good legislation that was truly bipartisan it'd get through. At least I hope so. However, considering the people Romney's surrounded himself with, such as Robert Bork, and things could go a lot worse than they have with Obama's GOP obstructions.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T11:35:04-07:00

speaking as a democrat, democrats wouldnt know how to cockblock if they were handed a cock and a 'Do Not Enter' Sign

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T11:36:37-07:00

@Andycon

True that. When it comes to the parties, no one is better at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory like the Democrats.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T12:26:34-07:00

From a UK perspective the fear is that Romney in the Whitehouse would have a far more hawkish foreign policy, and we really really don't want to get dragged along on another painful war in the middle east just because we always feel obliged to join in anything the US does...

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T12:55:11-07:00

@oldhat and renthing: the thing is, if the Romney takes the presidency, it would most likely be accompanied by the republicans taking a sizeable majority of both the House and Senate, so if the dems even had the will to cockblock the way the repubs have been for the past four years, they wouldn't be able to.

Also take into account that whoever is elected will probably be making two appointments to the Supreme Court during their presidency, and if Romney makes those appointments we'd be looking at the most conservative Supreme Court in US history, for a very, very long time.

The amount of damage that could be done with a Republican Tea Party congress, the most in the bag for corporations President ever, and an overwhelmingly conservative Supreme Court is massive.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T12:58:40-07:00

And now David Lejeune has officially made me worry even more about this election. I had not considered the Supreme Court appointments before, and that is frightening for me.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T13:06:25-07:00

@David, thanks for answering that. I'm now definitely scared for you guys.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T13:06:50-07:00

Page 2 of the old election thread. Si asks us to call it and we speculate. So far I'm feeling far better about my call than the last several months would have led me to expect. Romney can't get out of the way of his own mouth, and keeps insulting the people he needs to mobilize to support him.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T13:07:47-07:00

@Flabyo

"far more hawkish foreign policy"

Those in the US are worried about it as well. With Israel saying the only way to stop Iran is to go at them, and Romney talking about how we're SUCH good friends with them, I'm not sure you're too far off. Also, considering how much Romney doesn't know about foreign affairs, and doesn't seem to want to learn, I'd be worried about it too.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T13:12:32-07:00

@Argos

Look up the name I listed above, Robert Bork. Then be very, very afraid because Romney says he wants to put him on the SCotUS.

@James Cunningham

Well, my prediction wasn't worth much. That being said, I wouldn't say this is in the bag for Obama. Enough shennanigans are going on outside of the campaigns (various voter supression efforts) to make this a slam dunk.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T13:24:23-07:00

On Robert Bork, oh dear...

One year before President Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which banned whites-only lunch counters and other forms of discrimination, Bork criticized the Act as a moral abomination. “The principle of such legislation is that if I find your behavior ugly by my standards, moral or aesthetic, and if you prove stubborn about adopting my view of the situation, I am justified in having the state coerce you into more righteous paths. That is itself a principle of unsurpassed ugliness.”

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T13:35:54-07:00

So Bork is basically one of my mortal enemies, and not because I hate him, but because of the ways in which he wants to infringe upon my freedoms. Having him as a SCotUS candidate is reason enough not to have Mittens as president.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T13:51:56-07:00

He is 85 though and with Romney vowing to dismantle Obama Care, he could die at any given moment

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T15:16:29-07:00

Weird that Romney is only a decade younger, isn't it? Romney looks like he's in his 50s.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T15:46:58-07:00

@Argos: He looks young because he's lived the pure, carefree, and virtuous life of a filthy rich clueless knob.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T16:37:23-07:00

@Jason A Quest:

...are we not looking at that happening right now to the Republican party? It really is amazing how they manage to still wind up falling in line behind their candidate, but. Really, they're done. This is their last election as a cohesive party, if the Southern Strategy fails them.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T16:50:38-07:00

@Finagle

But will that lead to them fracturing into two distinct parties? My vote is on the "highly unlikely" outcome.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T17:00:03-07:00

@RenThing -

No, I don't think it *will*, given the problem we have with the winner-take-all situation and the state-by-state nature of the parties. I think the practical result will be that the Republican party simply shrinks, and the pool of people who claim to be "Independent" (which means they *mostly* vote Democrat) grows.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T18:05:15-07:00

@ Finagle - I think you're right and I certainly fucking hope so. Unfortunately, the Southern Strategy that has worked and worked well at both a state and federal level long ago morphed into the Military Industrial Pork Barrel Sweatshop.

I still think it's gonna be Obama. Romney's best moments are yet to come. (That dog on the roof is gonna haunt him bad, among other things.) And I also think that the Democrats like to portray themselves as mostly armless and thick as two short planks but make no mistake - they know dirty tricks that are dirty indeed. (They don't call him Slick Willy fer nuthin'!) SNAKES are mostly armless and the correct snake can kill you just by looking at you, nevermind actually biting you.

Point - Obama's got it all over him, foreign policy-wise. The Man Who Shot the Man Who Shot America. Also, he's got a willingness to use those drones and use them often.

Israel scares the fuck out of me. Question - why DOES America give Israel so much aid? Like, really. Wouldn't that money be better spent elsewhere? I get it, they're allies and they're important - but, as their most important ally, does ANY president have enough clout to tell them what to do? (I am not a fan of the actions of Israel in many cases but they have legitimate security concerns, to be sure. There MAY be some criticism of Israel, which can be always touchy, sometimes.)

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T18:51:59-07:00

Romney keeps his vigour by bathing in the blood of altar boys.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T19:35:07-07:00

@Finagle - I'd be happy to see the Republican party shrivel up, but I'm not prepared to bet on it. Too much money supporting it. I'm also not so sure it'd be a good thing. Once upon a time I actively wished for the civil-libertarian wing of the Republican party to take it over, or split off and then replace it, because then we'd only have to fight over economic policy, not bill-of-rights matters of personal freedom and privacy. But today I fear that the uncivil-libertarian wing would fill that role instead, and I find few redeeming ideas in the faction that (for example) places the right to discriminate above the right not to be discriminated against.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T19:46:27-07:00

Romney does have a disturbingly youthful appearance for his age. I'll actually give (partial) credit to Mormonism for this; abstaining from caffeine, ethanol, nicotine, THC, etc. is probably pretty good for you. But part of what disturbs me is that the public doesn't seem to realize just how old he is (only 7 years younger than McCain was when he ran against Obama). There's this photoshopped campaign snapshot of a woman and her preadolescent boys misspelling Rmoney's name, which keeps getting presented as "Romney's family", even though his actual sons are all old enough to remember Disco.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T20:52:18-07:00

I think we're more likely to see a splinter off the Democrat party while the GOP shrivles. The GOP started going crazy after Nixon and started dragging the whole of the political discussion to the right. Now, and it's something that became clear under Clinton, the Democrats are becoming a centrist, pro-corporate party with none of the 60s & 70s squeamishness around military action.

The US doesn't have a functioning Left wing party. While this election could burn the GOP as a federal matter down to its current Teabagger population, it's as likely to end the notion of the Democrats being traditional liberals. Twelve years from now we could see a shift where the Democrats become a centre-right party in response to its liberal and environmental oriented support breaking off to drive policy to face growing environmental and social justice issues the.

~R

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T21:07:00-07:00

See, here's the thing, I don't want the GOP to go away. We need conservatives to keep liberals in check because Liberals Gone Wild! isn't exactly a healthy political practice when it comes to the pocket book (on civil rights they go as fucking nuts as they want). I just wish we could somehow carve out the religious nutbags and the people who think ignorance is excellence.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T21:10:53-07:00

GOP aren't conservatives any more. Every plank of their platform is radical. The current Democratic party is actually conservative. There are no liberals on the stage. Losing the GOP would just mean conservatism (balanced budget, sane, measured foreign policy, social safety net designed to funnel people back into the private sector) would be ascendant in the form of the current Democratic party.

Might make some room for some actual liberals to get a word in.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-18T23:34:03-07:00

Israel scares the fuck out of me. Question - why DOES America give Israel so much aid?

I have never, and I mean never, been able to figure that one out, and I live here. Nobody has ever been able to explain why we're so heavily invested in that country. That we are is undeniable, but the reason? I've never heard anything that makes sense.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-19T00:24:25-07:00

It doesn't make sense. It's because the hardcore evangelical Christians believe that for the Second Coming to happen, Israel needs to be run by the Jews. They'll make noise about it being because Israel is the only stable US friendly democracy in the region, but it doesn't really hold water because the reason so many countries in the Middle East are hostile to the US is because of our support of Israel, if they really wanted US friendly governments there they'd be in favour of leaving Israel to their own devices instead of continuing to send them money and weapons (though at this point cutting Israel off would in all likelihood lead to nuclear war in the Middle East, so we're kind of stuck. On the other hand, the Power of God repelling an attack on Israel is supposed to be one of the signs of the pending Apocalypse (at least as far as those awful Left Behind books interpret it), so by actively preventing Israel becoming involved in another overt war we're stymieing the Second Coming instead of ensuring it, but nobody ever accused the hardcore bible-thumpers of being consistent, logical thinkers).

It's all about the Rapture.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-19T04:49:53-07:00

Fundie Christians support Israel because it's supposed to play a role in Armaggeddon. Mainstream Christians support Israel because it's where Jesus and Moses lived, and they want it in the "correct" hands (Christians would be better, but Jews are close enough). Liberal Americans support Israel because they feel so bad about the Holocaust, which – when you get right down to it – is why the modern state of Israel exists in the first place: Western guilt.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-19T06:46:01-07:00

I'm not very well versed in the modern history of Israel (I mean the United Nations basically invented it in the 1940's right? If anyone can give me an abbreviated history lesson, I will be interested to read it) but surely the US' closeness with it these days is mostly rooted in it's strategic significance? I assume they must have a lot of military bases there. You've gotta land your planes somewhere if you're gonna go and mess around with Iraq etc.

@DavidLejeune
Middle Eastern countries aren't only hostile towards the US because of their support for Israel. I mean it's the fucking terrifying icing on the shit cake but take it away and the US is still a very big, very powerful country with a very visible culture that is entirely at odds with their own, that they think can cause moral degradation of their own people. A country that also repeatedly manipulates their politics and invades them/their neighbours.

I've read several articles over the past few months saying that if anyone is ever going to attack Iran, it will be in October, just before the US election. Which... well lets hope that's not true.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-19T07:42:46-07:00

It's a few years old now, but former US senator James Abourezk wrote a biting analysis of the US government's support of Israel. It's available here.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-19T08:18:42-07:00

@badbear - I'd say Israel isn't that important to the US as a place to launch air strikes from. They have bases in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Turkey, Uzbekistan and plenty of carriers in the gulf itself, all much nearer to Iran than an Israeli base would be.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-19T08:43:54-07:00

More from Mittens "Foot in Mouth" Romey: 'I Say That Jokingly, But It Would Be Helpful To Be Latino'.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-19T10:06:19-07:00

Anybody else see the press conference Mr. Romney immediately called after that video went viral? Man, talk about backpedaling uphill on a unicycle. I actually do feel a little bad for the guy. That must have been about as much fun as having a tooth removed via the asshole.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-19T10:15:55-07:00

I have to wonder why he said it. Did he mean that being a minority might help him, dog-whistling that it's Obama's race that got him into office? I have to wonder how, given the anti-Latino/Hispanic theme of the GOP of the most recent years, he'd think that'd help him any.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-19T11:48:04-07:00

Re: An attack on Iran - based on the predictions in the article linked to below, such action would be a massively risky way to shore up Obama's popularity before the election.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09/iran-war-plan/all/

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-19T14:26:57-07:00

@RenThing: Romney figures that looking like a Mexican, but talking like an "American", would give him the votes of both Latinos and Republicans.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-19T15:24:18-07:00

The Latino comment was absolutely an affirmative action dig. Among the many pathetic things coming out of the republican tent these days is the laughable spectacle of multi-millionaires expressing open jealousy of minorities and the poor.

I believe Romney is sincere in his belief that he has somehow had less advantages than a black or Latino person. It's hilariously pitiful.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-19T17:40:35-07:00

My ex-girlfriend's late father (who was by no means a wealthy man) used to propose a toast - "I wonder what the poor people are doing right now. On the other hand, who gives a shit?" (It works better if you say it in a thick Belfast accent.)

So, yeah. Romney does the same thing, only without a trace of irony. At All.

Anecdotally, I was watching an episode of Mad Men, where they referenced Romney's father failed Presidential bid in the 60's. Henry Francis, aide to Gov. Rockefeller, says on the phone - "No, the governor's not going to Michigan. Because I don't want him on the same stage as Romney. Because Romney's a clown, that's why!" Oh, how I laughed.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-20T04:29:03-07:00

My favourite transatlantic political commentator Ian Leslie on why Mittens' comments probably won't cost him as much as we want it to.

Thanks to City Creed and Curb for the Iran/Israel links. Off to read them now...
(edit: That James Abourezk letter is awesome and very enlightening.)

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-20T07:09:30-07:00

It's worth remebering that up until about 1973, the US wasn't a particularly close ally of Israel.

America's key interests in the middle east were:

1. Protecting its oil investments.
2. Keeping the Russians out.
3. Easing the British and French out.

Israel was seen as at best an irritant to US/Arab relations and at worst an agent of Anglo-French influence in the region (see Suez Incident.) America strove to be seen as neutral in the Arab/Israeli conflcit and an honest broker.

That changed over time because of a number of factors:

1. After 1967 and especially after 1973, the Palestinaians turned increasingly to terrorism which alienated American popular opinion.

2. The Arab oil embargo after 1973 angered many Americans so supporting Israel was a way of giving Arab states The Finger.

3. Once Israel developed nuclear weapons, it became critical to the US that they not use them - since the Rusians threatened that they would retaliate with nuclear weapons of their own raising the prospect of escalation that could drag in the US. So American security guarantees and weapons are intended to convince Israel that they don't need to use their nukes.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-20T09:31:50-07:00

Classy is as classy does as a Texas man hangs an empty chair as a nod to a certain prop-as-stand-in for the Pres.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-20T20:13:31-07:00

Please, please, tell me this whole "Romney got a spray-tan to talk to Hispanic voters" thing is bullshit.

No matter how much I don't want him to be president, I just can't believe anyone on his staff would think this was a good idea.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-20T20:32:42-07:00

No, Romney has been spray tanning long before he was ever slated to be on Univision, but someone thought it'd be cute to make the joke and now we're stuck with a dumb meme. There's also the fact that it could have been a poor makeup job on top of the fake tan.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-20T21:42:51-07:00

Aaaaah, okay. That makes a lot more sense. Thanks, Argos.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-21T03:15:36-07:00

It's his silent tribute to Snooki. And a stealth audition for the next season of Jersey Shore. (Hey, he's gonna need a new gig in a cuple of months ...)

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-21T03:21:27-07:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-21T03:42:22-07:00

@ taphead - Sweet Jesus, that's fucking disturbing ...

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-21T05:18:57-07:00

Randy Newman - ‘I’m Dreaming of a White President’

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-21T05:45:58-07:00

Oh Sarah Silverman. You're the best.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-21T18:36:45-07:00

DAVID LETTERMAN ON MITT ROMNEY FROM 2008

Letterman made a running gag of throwaway jokes about Romney in 2008, interspersed in other stuff. Here for the first time they are assembled in one place. No citation - my wife cobbled them all together last night.
---------------------------
Mitt Romney looks like the guy who promises accident victims he'll get
the money they deserve.
He looks like a guy who would run a seminar on condo flipping.
He looks like he is the closer at a Cadillac dealership.
He looks like a guy who goes to the restroom when the check comes.
He looks like that guy on the golf course in the Levitra commercial.
I mean, he looks like the guy on TV selling life insurance, doesn't he?
He looks like that guy on a Father's Day ad for Norelco.
He looks like a guy on cable urging you to tap your home equity.
He looks like an American President in a Canadian movie.
He looks like the medical expert in a Victoria Principal infomercial.
He looks like the spokesman for senior lending networks.
He looks like the guy on the 'Just For Men' bottle.
I mean, this guy looks like he'd be selling fruit dehydrators on cable.
He looks like the guy who tells you how to buy real estate with no money down.
He looks like a cosmetic surgeon who gets ambushed on '60 Minutes.'
How about Mitt Romney? Now there's a guy who looks like you would see
his picture on a package of men's briefs.
He looks like a weekend weather man, doesn't he?
He looks like the neighbor who spends way too much time on his lawn.
Mitt looks like a guy who said he met Marge on eHarmony.
Mitt looks like a guy who tries to sign you up for Herbalife.
Mitt looks like a Beverly Hills cop.
He looks like a golf commentator fired for an off-the-cuff remark.
Mitt looks like a guy who forgot to remove his teeth whitening strip.
Mitt looks like the maitre d' who tells you your table's not ready.
Don't worry about Mitt. He can always go back to playing Dr. Miles
Windgate on General Hospital.
Mitt looks like the guy your mother points to and says why can't you
be more like him.
He looks like a former Tarzan.
Mitt looks like a Tom Cruise handler.
Mitt looks like a tour guide at the Nixon Library.
Mitt looks like the guy that shows you around Total Fitness.
Mitt looks like the honorary mayor of Sherman Oaks.
Mitt looks like the guy who shakes your hand too hard.
Mitt looks like the guy who has a crease in his jeans.
He looks like the guy that would approve your check at a supermarket.
He looks like the piano player at an upscale department store.
He looks like a guy who winks when he shakes your hand.
He looks like a guy who is married to an over the hill actress.
He looks like a guy who would brag about his cholesterol.
He looks like the owner of the steakhouse who keeps interrupting
dinner to find out how things are going.
Don't worry about Mitt, if this presidential thing doesn't work out he
can always go back to playing Victor Newman on the 'Young and the
Restless.'
Mitt Romney doesn't look like a president, he looks like a ringmaster.
Mitt looks like a guy wearing a golf shirt in an Eddie Bauer catalogue.
He looks like the desk clerk at a Peninsula Hotel who tells you your
room's not ready.
Mitt looks like the guy at a party who gives you his card.
He looks like a tennis pro at a restricted country club.
He looks like a Jet Blue pilot who comes out to greet the passengers
during the delay.
Mitt Romney looks like the guy who says to the contestant, 'We're out
of time, can you come back tomorrow?'
He looks like the photo that comes with the frame

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-21T20:02:55-07:00

He does look like that, doesn't he?

Favorite:

He looks like an American President in a Canadian movie.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-21T21:57:47-07:00

Joe Biden is awesome again, and always-

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-22T09:09:59-07:00

I love the fact that of all the speeches at the DNC, including Bill's amazing speech, the most watched one was Joe Biden. Not for the quality, but the content, because people expected him to say something nuts.

I love Joe. I'd never trust him to go solo with a message because of what he might say, but he makes for good political voyuerism in that same way you have that one uncle who always says the awkward jokes.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-22T10:03:01-07:00

Australia's deputy PM says "cranks and crazies" had taken over the Republicans and posed the biggest threat to the world's largest economy.

The Guardian

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-22T21:34:58-07:00

@TF: Yeah, tha't about right. When you've got a presidential candidate talking like a college sophomore who has just discovered Ayn Rand, and state officials buying into conspiracy theories, and insane theories about pregnancy and rape being openly talked about . . . something is deeply wrong.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-23T03:58:25-07:00

I can't be the only one who absolutely LOATHES Bill Clinton, can I? I mean, sure, nice speech, let's hope it helps but honestly, fuck Bill Clinton. (He'd probably like that. He wouldn't call it "sex" because he's like that.) There are feral dogs with a greater sense of morality than Bill Clinton. (An admittedly successful politician, which the Dems need but ... ugh.) He'd push his own grandmother into a corn-thresher if he thought it would help him politically.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-23T05:20:13-07:00

There was just a story on NPR profiling the 5-7% of 'undecided, independent' voters. It makes me feel like I've bee listening to that old Python bit where the agnostic states, "There's nothing you can't do if you really don't know whether you believe anything or not." I feel this is the appropriate response.

Low Information Voters

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-23T08:21:03-07:00

Finagle, that list is amazing. My favourite is probably the last one, "the photo that comes with the frame."

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-25T17:31:06-07:00

Tangentially related: I thought Mr. Ellis' column on Vice this week was good until I remembered that Rahm Emmanuel exists.

Also, isn't Romney the physical manifestation of Klein's disaster capitalism? Or is that Paul Ryan?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-26T07:56:02-07:00

THE NEW SEXUAL PREDATORS: older women and gay men

If you think the Republicans haven't alienated enough people, check this out.

Younger women look to older women for guidance and mentorship. They rely on being able to trust their foremothers as sisters in the cause for women’s health. But the increased scarcity of the fertile female body, combined with IVF technology that allows for egg harvesting and surrogacy, creates a conflict between generations of women. Older women with more power and resources put their interests ahead of younger women’s and make up for their past mistakes or misfortunes by risking the health and well-being of their successors.

The attack comes from close range—dressed in words of altruism and generosity. The women who seek other women’s children often carried the torch for gender equality, women’s rights, and so many other victories for their side in the gender wars. Out of respect for their ambition and their challenge to the glass ceiling, younger women feel pressured to give their children to older women as gestures of appreciation for their life trajectories. Perhaps these women anticipate a similar trajectory for themselves and donate away their children in hopes that someone will do the same for them in the future—a form of paying it forward.

Our gay friends and family members may now also be after our daughters’ bodies. These are the only men in the world we thought we could trust because they weren’t interested in our bodies. That is, until they grew older and discovered they wanted to be parents. Today, more and more often, gay men are using egg donors and surrogates to create motherless children on purpose.

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2012/09/6168

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-26T08:26:24-07:00

that on a similar thought ive been wrestling with lately: how can any woman who is above basic intelligence levels EVER side with right wingers (for any reason besides religion)? any time ive tried to talk to one about this, they start by saying its not about religion, but it eventually boils down to something that is 100% religious in nature.

i fucking hate organized religion

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-26T08:41:48-07:00

@Finagle: That is certifiably insane.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-26T10:05:04-07:00

That's some grade A, purebred crazy there. Jesus.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-26T10:06:12-07:00

@joe.distort

They can for the same reasons GOProud and the Log Cabin Republicans exist; because being conservative is more important than what the conservatives want to do to you.

That and Stockholm Syndrome.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-27T05:53:02-07:00

"If you're not a liberal in your twenties, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative in your forties, you have no head."

It comes down to money. "You're going to spend my hard-earned tax dollars on WHAT?" That said, most fiscal conservatives are just that - they don't really care about social issues,for them it's all about CONSERVING their money, status, etc. It's the Bi-Polar Holy Rollers that give conservatives a bad name. Well, that and most conservatives.

An anonymous guerilla fighter in Angola once paraphrased the quote up top - "If you're not a communist when you're twenty, you're not too bright. if you're STILL a communist when you're forty, you're STILL not too bright."

"A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged."

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-27T05:55:01-07:00

Top quote is Winston Churchill. Can always be relied on for an insightful comment

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-27T08:23:19-07:00

@Mister Hex

Comservatives have a real quandary here, now, with demographics. See, the major constituency right now of republicans are White men over fifty. Many of them are so called Regan Democrats, union guys who have been working their whole lives.

These guys have paid into the sysmtem their whole lives, and are now being told that the money just isnt there like they were promised. Not only that, but they still need to pay for THEIR parents, the Greatest Generation of Boomers who are still hanging on.

MEdicare, Medicaid and Social Security need fixing. Demographics are on the wrong side of keeping them solvent. We will have two workers to every one reiteree spending to keep their benefits going by 2024.

This is not sustainable, but the Repugs are doing their best to make it seem like it can be for retirees, if we just slam the door on folks under 50 and make us all take private savings accounts instead.

The Democrats do not have a more believeable plan, sadly.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-28T02:04:38-07:00

Samuel L. Jackson Has Had It with Mitt Romney, Tells Obama Supporters to ‘Wake the Fuck Up’

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-28T06:13:09-07:00

Tea Party to Obama: Your Mom's a slut!

(at least they're getting desperate and running out of shit... right?)

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-28T07:37:12-07:00

Mentally ill man kills his family, then himself, over the possibility of an Obama reelection.

Jesus Christ people.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-28T10:03:33-07:00

A question, and forgive the ignorance on it but I'm not too up to date but...if Romney won will there be much change? By that I mean will it be, like Obama, another four years of cockblocking? It's been frustrating to see Obama's attempts at bridging the gap between the two parties in order to get some shit done shot down simply because he's a democrat and with Romney not really showing many signs of a desire to bridge that gap will it just be democrats stopping Romney for the hell of it?

One could only hope that this would be the outcome IF Romney were to win the Presidency. We saw the damage that could be done when Republicans run both chambers and the Presidency when Bush was in office. I would have preferred no action as compared to the actions that Bush took.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-28T10:56:52-07:00

Since the GOP isn't likely to win control of the Senate, Romney wouldn't be able to accomplish much legislatively, at least not without providing political handjobs to Democratic senators from conservative states (there are several). His whole "repeal Obamacare" promise is totally empty, because the Democrats in the Senate will block that.

But what would change are all the things that involved powers that Congress has abdicated to the Executive branch, such as the ability to wage undeclared war, and to determine regulations thru "executive rule-making" and level of enforcement. For example, the War Powers Act allowed Obama to exercise military power in Libya without Congressional authorization, and he was able to effectively grant amnesty to immigrants brought to the US illegally as children by deciding not to bother enforcing the law in those cases. Romney would have similar discretion, which he'd probably use very differently (such as instead deciding to relax or stop enforcing finance-industry regs).

And then there's the Supreme Court. The two oldest justices (one a cancer survivor) were nominated by Democrats and lean to the left, and the next-oldest is Kennedy, who's usually the swing vote, so if Romney nominated their replacements it would shift the court even further to the right, for a long time to come.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-29T04:21:09-07:00

@JAQ -

Keep in mind though that the Democrats aren't likely to pick up enough seats to get a filibuster-proof majority in Congress. As long as they don't have 66 seats in the Senate, the Republicans can, indeed, continue their 'party of NO' cockblocking and maintain their position that "Look how ineffectual Obama is, he won't cooperate with us."

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-29T06:53:01-07:00

As a minor point of order, filibuster proof is 60 votes, not 66. That mostly a case a semantics as neither side will get to that point.

The other off hope is that the democratic leadership opts to change the rules for a filibuster to prevent the rampant abuse of the practice that has been in place since the dems took Congress back in 2006. That change would be a possibility once the new Congress starts in January.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-29T10:24:23-07:00

I'd love to at least see the Dems make the Repubs actually filibuster if they threaten to.

As it stands now, the way Congress has been operating, when the Repubs say they will filibuster, if there isn't a filibuster proof majority, they just say it was filibustered but no one has to actually monopolize the floor with continual unbroken speech.

It would be like if someone were building a road and you said you would chain yourself to a tree in their path to prevent it, and they just threw up their hands and said "welp that beats us!" And stopped building even though you never actually chained yourself to that tree.

I don't think the repubs could use the filibuster so often if they had to really do it. Not least of the things that would backfire on them is they would look ridiculous.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-30T01:52:49-07:00

Cheers Oddbill, I'd always thought that they actually did get up and speak non-stop, like in that episode of the West Wing.
I'm kind of disappointed to hear that it is something that is just threatened rather than carried out and I agree that they should be forced to put their money where their mouth is in that respect.
I'm sure it would make for some great car crash television.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-30T04:24:38-07:00

(Derr, 60 senators of course)

I would take it one step further and mandate the filibuster be carried out while wearing a special coverall uniform festooned with patches of relative sizes that detail the Senator's various ~~sponsors~~ constituencies, a la NASCAR drivers.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-30T04:33:03-07:00

@ Finagle - THIS.

oH, BUT A THOUSAND TIMES this.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-30T07:44:45-07:00

Reid needs to actually force the filibuster. Today's senate treats it like a parliamentary procedure. Currently, the basic structure goes something like this; Democrats bring up a bill, a Republican objects, Reed moves on to a new order of business.

Reid does have the power to force the filibuster and make Republicans look like the dumb-fucks they really are. Past majority leaders have gone as far as closing off the doors to the senate floor, turning off the A/C, denying bathroom and meal breaks, and forcing the debate. On the downside, McCain might think he is back in a Vietnamese torture cell and go balls-out ape-shit.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-30T09:09:41-07:00

@Finagle, Mister Hex:

Why limit the patches to just filibusters? Make it the new congressional uniform!

Hm, actually, that would make for a great piece of collage art. I wonder if anyone's done anything along those lines...

Off the current topic, and sparked by that last thought, does anyone else find it interesting that we're getting close to the election and we've yet to see any new truly iconic art like we saw in the last election? I've seen Fairey's HOPE poster crop up (in the "Wake The Fuck Up" video, for example) but it seems like a lot of the iconic images are actually coming not from artists but from Internet culture (the R MONEY picture, "I'm Rick Perry And I'm A Douchebag," and so on). That's kind of interesting to me as an art historian. (It's admittedly probably not that interesting to anyone else.)

Also, why ISN'T Reid forcing filibusters? Is he/party leadership afraid that the Republicans will effectively spin this as left-wing obstructionism? I mean, are they really that nervous about their own ability to spin a story?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-30T12:15:07-07:00

Democrats won't force the filibuster because they believe that if Republicans gain control of the Senate, they will provide the same courtesy to the Democrats. There is something to be said about learning from your mistakes. Democrats have made the mistake of thinking that Republicans will at some point provide them them the same courtesy.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-30T12:17:34-07:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-30T12:33:39-07:00

Democrats won't force the filibuster because they believe that if Republicans gain control of the Senate, they will provide the same courtesy to the Democrats.

I think there are more Dems that could actually maintain a filibuster than there are Republicans. The thing about the filibuster is that all the same rules for having the floor apply: you can't sit down and you can't eat or drink anything other than water. Can you imagine John McCain standing upright for long enough to effectively block anything?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-30T12:50:34-07:00

Can you imagine John McCain standing upright for long enough to effectively block anything?

I can't picture him sitting through a filibuster, much less trying to perform one.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-30T13:08:18-07:00

@Scribe:

That seems too simple to me, though. I mean, it's plain to all of us here, certainly, and presumably most Democrats in general, that playing nice with the Republicans is not going to inspire them to behave courteously back. I can't believe that someone like Reid, who has managed to get elected to office multiple times presumably through some sort of political strategy, could make such an obvious error of judgment, unless he's erroneously assuming that playing nice will allow the party to sway middle of the road "Both Parties Are Equally To Blame" wishy-washy voters.

But... maybe he actually is just deluding himself, and I'm overestimating Democratic Party strategic thought. I don't know.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-30T14:18:35-07:00

That seems too simple to me, though. I mean, it's plain to all of us here, certainly, and presumably most Democrats in general, that playing nice with the Republicans is not going to inspire them to behave courteously back. I can't believe that someone like Reid, who has managed to get elected to office multiple times presumably through some sort of political strategy, could make such an obvious error of judgment, unless he's erroneously assuming that playing nice will allow the party to sway middle of the road "Both Parties Are Equally To Blame" wishy-washy voters.

But... maybe he actually is just deluding himself, and I'm overestimating Democratic Party strategic thought. I don't know.

Reid barely won his last election. Nevada is purple, and Reid has to pander to the masses of a semi-redneck state. But Reid is, also, a believer in decorum. He hates when the senate deviates from gentlemanly traditions, but willingly bends over and grabs his ankles when Republicans break from tradition. Well, maybe willingly is a bad term, he just looks like he's willing since he doesn't want to upset his electorate.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-09-30T15:18:36-07:00

Ah. Well, that makes more sense, then, in a depressing sort of way, thanks. Man, no matter how cynical I think I've become, it's apparently never quite enough.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-01T00:36:36-07:00

What can you fine folks tell me about Gary Johnson?

Are there skeletons in his closet, or is he actually a nice guy?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-01T00:54:22-07:00

Probably a fine guy. Not a snowball's chance in hell he'll ever be elected as a Libertarian. His party is also full of buffoons, Randians and free-market absolutists. As the article points out, at best he will cut some votes away from Romney and make an Obama win easier.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-01T04:41:04-07:00

Gary Johnson: Nader for Republicans.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-01T05:17:14-07:00

What can you fine folks tell me about Gary Johnson?

Are there skeletons in his closet, or is he actually a nice guy?

My biggest problem with libertarian candidates is that they place more emphasis on fiscal issues over social issues, and even some of their stances on social issues are a bit outlandish. Sure, the American Libertarian party wants to legalize weed, but they also want businesses to be allowed to discriminate on the basis of race, religion or sexual orientation.

He is for school vouchers, lower taxes, legalized marijuana, privatizing prisons, same-sex marriage and is pro-choice.

He's against universal health care and wants to slash medicare, medicade and social security spending, but I bet he won't lay a finger on the bloated military budget.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-01T05:24:06-07:00

Gary Johnson: Nader for Republicans.

I never understood what people have against Nader. He is one of the few honest politicians left in this world.

People blame him for Gore's lost, but let's be honest - there were 7 presidential nominees on the Florida ballot, three of which were left of Gore and all three received enough votes, more than the 600 that Gore lost by, to offset Gore's balance, yet Nader always gets the blame.

The argument, and I really believe this argument holds merit, is that the people who supported Nader probably would not have voted at all. I voted for Nader, and if he wasn't running that year, I would have sat out the Presidential vote and just went for the one senate seat, my rep and governor.

The only person Gore can blame for losing that election is Gore. He ran a horrible campaign and his positions were barely left of Ronald Reagan.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-01T07:28:33-07:00

the people who supported Nader probably would not have voted at all.

Some of them, sure. But I know enough Nader supporters in swing states who held their nose and voted for Gore even with Nader on the ballot (because they were afraid of throwing the election to Bush) that I'm pretty sure there were at least 600 of them in Florida who would've voted for Gore if Nader wasn't on the ballot. They don't all subscribe to the notion that not-voting somehow accomplishes something. I don't "blame" Nader personally for the outcome, and I support his (and every other "third" candidate) being in the race, but I do acknowledge that the outcome would've been different if he hadn't been.

but I bet [Johnson] won't lay a finger on the bloated military budget.

Well, he won't because 1) he won't be elected, and 2) Congress actually legislates the budget, so it wouldn't be up to him even if he was. But if you're talking about his positions, Johnson says that he'd ask for it to be cut in half... for what that's worth.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-01T09:39:05-07:00

Pleased to see that electoral-vote.com now shows Obama polling 347 to Romney's 191. This looks to be better than he was doing this time four years ago (although at that point there were 3 tied states).

@Keeper

Also, why ISN'T Reid forcing filibusters? Is he/party leadership afraid that the Republicans will effectively spin this as left-wing obstructionism?

That may not be why, I don't know, but I absolutely guarantee it would happen. It's very hard to go wrong when your entire style of government is based on trying to prove that government is bad.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-01T09:57:10-07:00

but I do acknowledge that the outcome would've been different if he hadn't been.

I just can't buy into it. I truly believe that the onus is on Gore. He lost by a lousy 600 votes, and if you can't convince 600 people to vote for you, then you're not much of a politician.

Whether or not voting actually accomplishes anything, well that is a whole separate topic that I could rant on about for hours.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-01T10:28:39-07:00

You're being absurd. He convinced half the voting population of the United States to vote for him. Millions of votes. The 600 he lost by would have easily been there if Nader hadn't run.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-01T11:22:22-07:00

Five Thirty Eight has the electoral votes at 320.1 to 217.9, and they give Romney about a 15% chance of winning. They don't comment on this overtly in their most recent article, but there seems to be a basic assumption on their part that, like many have said, this is the Democrat's race to lose. All of the points that Romney can score to catch up involve something going wrong for Obama rather than something going right for Romney.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-01T11:29:09-07:00

You're being absurd. He convinced half the voting population of the United States to vote for him. Millions of votes. The 600 he lost by would have easily been there if Nader hadn't run.

Here's the problem, it is one of those things that just can't be proven. In one big way, Nader helped Gore. Nader managed to register many young voters who probably would not have voted at all. One school actually researched this and discovered that nearly 1 percent of all of Gore's votes came from those that were registered by those supporting Nader, but voted for Gore. This isn't all that uncommon, but it is when it happens from a 3rd party candidate. When I registered to vote, I was registered by a Republican group, even though I had no intention of ever voting Republican. Just don't claim a party affiliation and they will gladly turn it in.

Let's, also, not forget that Clinton carried 31 states in his last election, Obama carried 28, and Gore only carried 20. When your party is averaging over 25 states, then you have no excuse when you only carry 20. And many of the states that Gore lost but other Democrats carried happened to be states where Nader was not even on the ballot.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-01T15:44:08-07:00

@Scribe -

Whatever. Third party candidates pull from the available pool of likely voters. This was well demonstrated with Ross Perot, and then again with Nader. Electoral college voting is a zero-sum game - someone's win is always somebody else's loss. Any "successful" "third-party" candidate sucks votes from one party or the other, or both. Votes aren't like dollars, you can't just print them up. I'm not quite sure who you're being an apologist for, but the point remains:

Gary Johnson will suck votes away from the libertarian wing of the Republican party.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-01T16:02:57-07:00

Also, those of you can get American East Coast television:

- Watch the Scott Brown vs. Elizabeth Warren debates, if you can. Massachusetts is the most ...well, socialistic of all the American states. If you want to understand the sloppy middle of American politics, you have to understand Scott Brown. He represents the semi-mythical "independent" candidate. **one is in progress right now, 19:00 EST. **

- Before Scott Brown existed, the existing 'independent' Congressman was Bernie Sanders - who is a Socialist. A real, honest to God, Socialist. Sort of.

If you want to understand the mysterious 'independent' creature, the one who is captured by both Libertarians and Socialists, you must understand Scott Brown, the most conservative Senator to be elected in MA in half a century, and why he is going to lose this term.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-01T19:40:27-07:00

I'll dive into the Nader/Gore conversation only to note that Gore didn't carry Tennessee, his home state, which is one of the telling issues. Gore, or the people he trusted, dropped the ball. Yes, Florida was super important, but had Gore carried his home state, FL wouldn't have mattered.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-02T06:20:20-07:00

I'll dive into the Nader/Gore conversation only to note that Gore didn't carry Tennessee, his home state, which is one of the telling issues. Gore, or the people he trusted, dropped the ball. Yes, Florida was super important, but had Gore carried his home state, FL wouldn't have mattered.

If Gore would have won any of the states that Clinton won in the previous election, save Nevada, he would have at least tied the election and in most cases would have outright won it.

Whatever. Third party candidates pull from the available pool of likely voters. This was well demonstrated with Ross Perot, and then again with Nader. Electoral college voting is a zero-sum game - someone's win is always somebody else's loss. Any "successful" "third-party" candidate sucks votes from one party or the other, or both. Votes aren't like dollars, you can't just print them up. I'm not quite sure who you're being an apologist for, but the point remains:

There were a lot of states that Gore lost, and that he should have won, where Nader didn't even appear on the ballot. Let's not, also, forget that the Libertarian party ran Harry Browne of Tennessee that year, and the Libertarian party was on 7 more state ballots than Nader was. Gore blew it, plain and simple. He should have never ran away from Clinton.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-02T15:24:20-07:00

http://unskewedpolls.com/

This is utterly brilliant. Removing the bias from polls so that... er... well... if the poll is biased towards showing accurate figures relating to the guy who's winning, they'll remove that bias...

So long as it's a Republican.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-02T15:34:04-07:00

Yep, that guy's a real winner.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-02T15:40:14-07:00

Obama is lowering odds on tomorrow nights debate.

I'm taking odds that he will clean Romney's clock, and is just lowering odds to make it seem like even more of a trouncing.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-02T16:22:53-07:00

@Finagle

Stewart pretty much said that is what candidates traditionally do before debates.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-02T16:26:47-07:00

I'm saving a 1 Litre bottle of high ABV Barley Wine just for this debate. Looking forward to it.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-02T16:49:41-07:00

@Oldhat

Don't know if you can get it up there, but I can't recommend Firestone Walker's Double DBA. Simply delicious.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-02T16:57:57-07:00

Why are Republicans so cranked on the poll thing?

When Obama wins, they'll want a reason to challenge the election results. And for Republican politicians to have the justification for another four years of obstructionism, resentment, and delegitimization.

Even after Obama is out of office, the Republicans will play the "stolen election" card when they try to limit voting rights.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T01:03:26-07:00

Well, they can't very well say he's winning because he's black, right? I mean, that's racist and they're "The Part of Lincoln dontchaknow" and they can't have that.

No, it's that the media stacked it in his favor and they convinced all the Republican voters to just stay in on election day.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T02:34:42-07:00

Uncle Warren has been threatening to live tweet along with the presidential debates, that should be fun.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T06:50:38-07:00

Well, they can't very well say he's winning because he's black, right?

"Instead, the nation, which is generally reluctant to declare a president a failure — thereby admitting that it made a mistake in choosing him — seems especially reluctant to give up on the first African American president." — George Will

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T07:56:38-07:00

@Ren Thing:

Arguably, that's exactly what Romney DID say with his 47% comment, albeit in a coded way. And of course when he said he would be doing better if he was Latino. The racism is getting less and less subtle as the election drags on.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T08:34:25-07:00

@Flabyo

Can we airdrop a case of Red Bull to him as an enticement?

@Jason A. Quest and KeeperofManyNames

I'm thinking my sarcasm didn't come across. I'll slap it on extra-thick next time.

"And of course when he said he would be doing better if he was Latino"

Except the only Latino the GOP apparently likes right now is Marco Rubio. I don't think Romney would've made it to this point had he been Latino, the party would've held it's nose and rallied behind Santorum.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T09:53:32-07:00

I can't keep up with the pace of this thread/politics makes me angry, but booze!

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T10:36:21-07:00

There's also this one:

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T10:49:23-07:00

@RenThing We don't get Firestone up here (although I bought a bottle of parabola that is aging in my cellar for Christmas) but I DO have a one litre bottle of barley wine with not really any label on it.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T12:58:03-07:00

Dumping a couple more, courtesy of The Hairpin:

One from Philly Mag.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T13:41:42-07:00

How'd you get a bottle of Parabolla? I went to their tasting room and I think it was on their "You must buy and drink this here" list.

I had their Helldorado which is only served in their tap room. Apparently all of their staff keep begging the powers at be to bottle it but so far no luck.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T13:41:54-07:00

Re: These drinking games -

I'm going to be so fucked tonight.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T14:03:20-07:00

@RenThing When I was in NYC in June I found a bottle at a specialty beer shop. It had just been bottled the month previous.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T14:41:10-07:00

@Oldhat

Ah, ok. Yeah, they had a list of some really, really good sounding beers, ranging from $35-100 for a 22ml bottle but you had to drink them there. I have a bottle of their double DBA in my frig and it's going to sit for a few more months.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T15:11:30-07:00

@RenThing:

Man, it's getting harder and harder to tell just what parts of mock conservative dialogue are actually sarcastic, partly because the party message seems to be getting more self-contradictory and frazzled. Knew you were being sarcastic at the end, at least.

And hey, I didn't say Romney's Latino comment made sense, just that he made it. ;) See above comment on the party line getting steadily less coherent.

I love that the variety of drinking games allows you to either gamble on which collection of phrases is the most likely to appear, or just completely decimate yourself by playing all the variations at once.

I feel like "With all due respect", "Trillion," and "Jobs," along with fan favorite "Freedom," all stand to be killers this time around. I wonder, will they go with false cordiality or open hostility tonight?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T16:06:57-07:00

Ren's Ultimate Debate Drinking Game (compiled from all the other drinking games, plus some additions)

You can play one of two ways, either you drink when your guy says something or the guy you aren't voting for says something. Trying to do both at once will probably kill you with booze and who wants to go out being known as the guy who died because he drank too much during a lame presidential debate?

Take a drink if either candidate:
- Addresses his opponent in the 3rd person
- Compliments his opponent's personal life or family
- Ignores a question by addressing the audience
- Argues with the moderator
- Mentions any of the following: unemployment, jobs, taxes, "With All due respect"
- Drinks water
- Writes on their notes

Take a drink if Barack Obama mentions:
- The Auto Bailout
- Killing Bin Laden
- "Better off than 4 years ago"
- The Troops
- His Mother
- Says "Let me be clear"
- References Bain Capital
- Blames the previous administration
- Says "Milloniares" or "Billionares"
- Mentions Bain Capitol

Take a drink if Mitt Romney says
- Ronald Reagan
- Champion for Small Business
- I'm for the 100%
- "Not better off than 4 years ago"
- The Troops
- His Father
- Touts his plan to create 12 million jobs
- Says "entrepeneurs" or "small business"
- "private sector"
- References "My friends"

Special Rules
- If a candidate goes over their allowed time DRINK UNTIL THEY ARE STOPPED BY THE MODERATOR
- If either candidate says Romneycare/Obamacare, RAISE YOUR DRINK - the last player to raise their drink must finish it
- Finish your drink if Obama brings up "47%", "Cayman Islands" or "Swiss Bank Accounts"
- Finish your drink if Romney brings up "doing fine", "Solyndra" or "Redistribute"
- Finish your drink if there is no end-of-debate hug or handshake

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T16:12:48-07:00

Uh, can I get a livestream of the debate? I don't own a TV and I'm in a university library for the next foreseeable two years of my life. Anybody?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T16:14:13-07:00

Loads of places, apparently are streaming it.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T16:18:39-07:00

Party on. Now, how to get beer in here .....

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T16:23:55-07:00

If your uni is anything like my uni that shouldn't be too hard.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T16:25:56-07:00

Water bottles work wonders for that.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T16:29:17-07:00

If there isn't *already* beer somewhere in that library right now, I'll eat my hat. Just go around and bust someone unless they share.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T17:54:51-07:00

@RenThing

beers, ranging from $35-100 for a 22ml bottle

Are you fucking kidding me?

Edit: I read that as "220ml", which I assume is what you actually mean, but still, absolutely, are you fucking kidding me?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T17:57:30-07:00

@256

Nope. Parabola was about $35 for me. So was this wonderful stout from Italy I had a while ago. For what it is a lot of them are either very special one-offs (like Parabola, which is brewed once a year), special imports, or beers that go through a hell of a complex process to be made (also like Parabola). It's one of the reasons I ask for donations to the tip jar on my site now and then.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T19:49:38-07:00

And now, courtesy of the Internet, Silent Jim Lehrer tweets his role in the debate.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T20:04:09-07:00

Christ, I do hope that they get someone else to moderate the next one. The man himself even admitted that he did a shitty job.

*pours another drink*

Oi, what a thing that was.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T20:41:36-07:00

I kept wanting to scream "WHAT STUDY?!" every time one of them described their facts as coming from "a study" or a variation thereof. If you're going to battle with hard numbers, you have to say where those numbers come from. Hell, even some of the trillions (I was right about that word being a big winner for drinks tonight!) of tax cuts comments at the beginning could easily have been cited. I mean, why on earth would Obama say "Romney stated this" then not bother to add "it's on his website as we speak, in fact, if you want to go check it out, Viewers At Home!"

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-03T20:53:03-07:00

I did not watch the debate. I simply drank an entire bottle of Tequila Rose and hid.

Some of you know what tequila does to me. You can imagine what is happening to my mind right now.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-04T02:22:57-07:00

I missed it all because I was sleepy. The Guardian is calling it for Romney though.

Boo!

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-04T05:19:19-07:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-04T05:25:09-07:00

Christ, I do hope that they get someone else to moderate the next one. The man himself even admitted that he did a shitty job.

I liked the fact that the moderator lost control of debate. Debate's, to me, are suppose to be a kind of free for all, but I do wish they would come up with a format where the candidates would ask each other questions instead of just attacking the others positions.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-04T07:43:10-07:00

Nate Silver did a piece before the debate arguing that typically even when one candidate is the clear winner it has little effect on the final outcome.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-04T08:12:41-07:00

Romney definitely had the upper hand in terms of attitude, but as far as what the candidates were both saying, the Economist's Democracy in America liveblogging put it best when they said:

"I'm not sure if I'm learning anything from this debate, but I expect to learn a lot from the fact-checks that will inevitably follow."

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-04T08:47:57-07:00

CNN's poll put Romney as the winner but most of the demographic of people who responded were older, white, Southern males; apparently no other demographic responded with any kind of statistical significance.

That being said, Romney did seem to be harder hitting than Obama in this debate though his promised zingers apparently were misshipped to Obama ("You didn't work with Republicans on Obamacare." "It was a Republican idea.")

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-04T15:24:04-07:00

Maine GOPer releases campaign flyer criticizing Dem opponent for playing an Orc Rogue in WoW.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-05T13:57:21-07:00

Snoop Dogs Voting Logic:

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-07T01:11:12-07:00

"He reminds me of every boss I ever hated."

Dog's got a point, folks.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-07T08:50:03-07:00

Aaron Sorkin writes an imaginary dialogue between Barack Obama and JED BARTLETT after the first debate.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-08T05:10:41-07:00

Rumble in the Air-Conditioned Auditorium: Jon Stewart and Bill O'Reilly's epic debate of epic-ness

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-08T05:36:00-07:00

@ TF - that was unexpectedly excellent. I thought I'd browse it for highlights, but ended up watching the whole thing and actually came out of it with an increased degree of respect for Bill O'Reilly. Which is something that really surprised me.

What it really illustrates is that O'Reilly and Stewart are in exactly the same game - turning news into entertainment, not a way to be informed. That's something that Stewart uses as a defence quite frequently, but it seems that O'Reilly either understands this and is now grudgingly admitting it, or if he didn't before, is now. Stewart is frequently not so much attacking O'Reilly's political position as the quality of information that Fox 'News' offers, and asking O'Reilly, as a principled guy, to do better, or to drop the pretence that what he's doing is actually news.

But what was fascinating and I would have expected to be a touch hypocritical in theory, although it didn't come across that way, was how O'Reilly also seemed to take a few guarded shots at people like Limbaugh and Coulter, who it seems he has an issue at being grouped with, when he sees his role as different to theirs, which is purely profit-hungry.

What's important about this is that it's showing how two people with widely differing views can debate and try to find common ground, or at least, challenge each other constructively, which is something that's been missing is both American politics and public discourse.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-08T11:21:27-07:00

@Oddcult

The thing about Stewart and O'Reilly is that, while they very much disagree with each other, they have always been professional and genuinely like the other person as a person. While I am not a fan of his I believe that O'Reilly has gotten "better" as an individual for their friendship because, in some instances, I think he's changed from his earlier days at Fox News; for instance, he recently came out in support of a trangendered woman when other people at Fox were going after her.

Of course, there's the whole "The tides, how the fuck do they work!" sort of thing and I think he shares some culpability in the murder of Dr. Tiller but it has been interesting watching their relationship change through the years.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-08T11:52:45-07:00

...actually came out of it with an increased degree of respect for Bill O'Reilly. Which is something that really surprised me.

It was the same for me.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-08T13:13:02-07:00

The difference is Stewart's audience understands that he is a comedian and O'reilly's doesn't.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-08T13:51:52-07:00

Snoop Lion*

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-08T16:00:13-07:00

"I think he's changed from his earlier days at Fox News; for instance, he recently came out in support of a trangendered woman when other people at Fox were going after her... "

Just gonna leave this here.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-08T16:44:28-07:00

And?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-11T18:52:13-07:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-11T19:12:47-07:00

Shame that there wasn't a rule to take a drink everytime Biden laughs.

What a fun debate.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-11T19:59:45-07:00

Finished my drink whenever Biden mentioned Scranton. I will also say that it is good to see Foreign Policy Biden again.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-11T20:00:32-07:00

I find Biden's assertions intriguing and I wish to subscribe to his administration.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-11T20:05:15-07:00

Should have also taken a drink whenever Ryan mentioned a personal best friend him and his family made while campaigning.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-11T20:14:33-07:00

@oldhat

I just drank steadily throughout the whole thing. Made it easier.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-11T20:27:26-07:00

Bill Maher: 9-1-1, I'd like to report an old man beating a child on the television...

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-11T20:51:07-07:00

Just don't play the bong hit game

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-11T21:03:25-07:00

This debate was worth it if only for this image:

It's a good thing it's coming out day, because I think I may have just fallen in love with Joe Biden('s endless exasperation).

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-12T05:59:16-07:00

The Joker kills Robin.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-12T06:40:30-07:00

w-w-what?!

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-12T07:44:54-07:00

Paul Ryan looks like Burt Ward (and even kind of sounds like him), and Joe never stopped smiling. But it wasn't exactly a friendly smile...

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-12T09:14:29-07:00

I like Biden even though I can't help but see the Jeff Dunham old man puppet when I look at him.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-12T09:25:48-07:00

And Ryan to me looked kind of like...well...

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-12T09:28:55-07:00

Ryan looks to me like the asshole frat boy character in any 80's teen movie. A member of the Kobra Kai dojo if there ever was one.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-12T09:36:37-07:00

or that dude that ruined The Office when he showed up

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-12T09:42:51-07:00

I thought it was interesting that both of then tried the looking directly into the camera bit. For Biden, it mostly came off quasi folksy, but Ryan just looked creepy.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-13T04:20:15-07:00

To me he kind of looks like that asshat gymrat douche who hits on women and hogs the free weights.

Oh, wait.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-13T04:45:22-07:00

I think you can make more sense out of things with the help of Bad Lip Reading.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-13T05:26:43-07:00

That's some of the best pure bulldada I've seen in forever.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-13T17:34:11-07:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-13T19:53:09-07:00

I was going to compare Ryan to Eddie Munster but a bunch of people beat me to it:

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-14T16:16:28-07:00

I think Ryan looks like .....

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-14T19:54:57-07:00

@Finagle
What is Ryan supposed to be doing in that pic? His hand gestures seem to be "Please dont hurt my junk ,sir"

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-15T09:31:40-07:00

To me he kind of looks like that asshat gymrat douche who hits on women and hogs the free weights

thats funny because if he was at my gym he would not even stick out amongst the other middle age dudes who are dwarfed by the Super Mutants on the weights

also i think i have those exact basketball shorts for MY workouts hahaha

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-15T19:13:04-07:00

Watching Virginia's polls swing back and forth has been like getting a handjob, but every twenty tugs or so my foreskin tears a little bit.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-15T21:16:21-07:00

And on that note I'm no longer hungry. Thanks, Alan! *puts down dinner, pushes it away*

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-16T13:31:46-07:00

Arrested Development makes everything better.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-16T14:32:25-07:00

The look on Obama's face screams, "God damn it, Bill..."

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-16T14:45:48-07:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-16T15:00:32-07:00

@Oldhat, I know the girl who started that blog.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-16T20:27:29-07:00

Welp. That was an appalling answer on gun control. I think the Economist liveblog said it best:

"This gun-control debate is the debate equivalent of an Ornette Coleman solo."

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-16T20:32:52-07:00

As an Ornette Coleman fan I'm offended by that remark, but yeah both sides danced around the question big time. ;)

At least Barack showed up this time.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-16T21:11:50-07:00

I don't know, Obama was pretty straightforward in his response and, just in case you forgot, didn't suggest that guns don't kill people, giving birth out of wedlock kills people. Dancing around a question is one thing. That answer from Romney... was another thing entirely. I'm still kind of in awe at some of the more outright bizarre or alienating things he said.

It was cool how both candidates were competing to see who could throw environmentalism in front of a bus more vigorously, though. That was charming.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-16T21:50:02-07:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-17T02:40:06-07:00

I'll just leave here then.
Barack Obama vs Mitt Rmoney - The Final Presidential Debate

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-17T07:37:07-07:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-18T01:14:35-07:00

Josh Romney in the audience of the last debate.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-18T02:50:08-07:00

Umm...

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2012-10-18T05:30:42-07:00

@The Mighty Foamhead--LOL

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2012-10-18T07:13:48-07:00

@foamhead I actually, sitting home alone on my day off, laughed out loud when I saw that.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-18T14:47:52-07:00

"Romney didn't suck. He was a better opponent against Obama than Obama was against him in the first debate. But he was trapped, man, so very trapped. Obama's had people say "Yes" to him for only the last four years. Romney has spent the last 40 getting his balls washed by everyone. The man can't stand it when he's challenged, especially with his own words used against him. His face gets flush, and he starts weirdly getting all breathy and frantic, as if he's about to blow a gasket. It's the face that Ann must see just before Mitt demands she bend over the antique sideboard and get ready for a Kolobian ass reaming. It's the look that must have terrified his five awful sons into eating their vegetables and washing the dog shit off the side of the car. It must be horrible to be his servant, since he considers everyone not in his class the help."

The Rude Pundit, folks.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-18T20:10:20-07:00

This . . . this is . . . Oh Myyyyyy.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-19T05:17:34-07:00

A couple of surprises here:

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-19T07:24:34-07:00

Something about that graph seems vastly oversimplified and incorrect.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-19T07:45:11-07:00

Yeah, the Mormons and beer thing for instance.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-19T07:55:48-07:00

I'm guessing the majority of Romney supporters aren't Mormon though.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-19T08:09:48-07:00

I'd say Stumbleupon's data is a bit broad and the Hancock thing makes me think they aggregated that data from a wide time frame. Then they desperately looked for divisions for "fun!".

I like the ephemera of the thing though.

This is more newsy:

Spanish speaking citizens told the election is on Nov. 8th

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-19T08:17:23-07:00

It was the Tosh.0 vs. Louis CK thing that seemed wrong to me.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-19T08:21:29-07:00

I just feel itchy whenever anything comes up of "this group likes these things". Sort of ignores the whole people being different thing.

Hell, I know right wing conservatives who love watching The Bird Cage and liberals who think Harry Potter is a bad influence on their child.

Also I don't like Radiohead. :P

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-19T11:18:48-07:00

"It was the Tosh.0 vs. Louis CK thing that seemed wrong to me."

Yeah that was one of the ones that seemed way off to me too. Tosh.0 seems like a thing frat boys would be in to and maybe I falsely equate frat boys to young Republicans.

I prefer Zepplin, Louie CK, Batman, Marilyn Monroe, and beer...so not a Romney supporter. And when does diet and excersise become an either/or thing?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-20T00:26:36-07:00

Also, Obama voters like Dark Knight but Romney voters like Batman?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-21T13:06:37-07:00

And here we are given a valuable lesson about when to apply modal statistics and when not to.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-22T16:14:15-07:00

i dont really like the 'hahaha, funny' levels shit is getting to. its trivializing something that is a fuck of a lot more serious than the memes its being shuffled into

also, on a more offensive personal level, a lot of it is just hacky, bad comedy

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-22T21:06:38-07:00

Tonight Romney said that Syria is how Iran accesses the sea. On stage during a presidential debate. At this point, making fun is a reflex action to preserve sanity.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-23T06:49:18-07:00

Have there been any attempts to spin or defend the Iran/Syria comment? I mean, it's not quite as bad as Palin thinking Africa is a country or that the Queen command's Britain's armed forces, but it's getting there.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-23T07:30:24-07:00

I'm sure they'll spin it as a metaphor.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-23T07:50:04-07:00

Can't really see how they're going to put a metaphorical spin on that.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-23T08:08:51-07:00

I guess at a push you could argue it's a route to the Mediterranean (and therefore Israel).

Still dumb though given Iran can already hit Israel with the gear they already have.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-23T09:00:14-07:00

"Saint Louis is the gateway to the West." It doesn't mean that you literally have to physically go thru St Louis to get there. It's a metaphor.

I think it's more likely that Mitt just got Iraq and Iran confused on a map, but "he was speaking metaphorically" is always a handy defense when you say something that's not literally correct.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-23T09:02:10-07:00

Romney got beaten upside the face and neck last night.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-23T10:54:43-07:00

Well, you see, Iran is going to use its nuclear weapons to BLAST A CANAL right through Iran and Syria to the Mediterranean, where it will dominate Europe with the mighty fleet of triremes which is has been amassing since King Xerxes' times.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-23T12:04:56-07:00

Ah, so that's why we must have more bayonets and horses. To combat the triremes.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-23T13:08:32-07:00

You know, the Iranian navy has more triremes than it had in 517BC.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-23T13:53:18-07:00

They'll go after Greece first, and finish the job the 300 kept them from finishing.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-23T15:10:02-07:00

The foreign policy debate turned into a domestic policy debate because they basically agree on foreign policy.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-26T00:13:20-07:00

From John Scalzi's blog:

WARNING: this post is going to be oh-so-very-triggery for victims of rape and sexual assault. I am not kidding.

A Fan Letter to Certain Conservative Politicians

Dear certain conservative politicians:

Hi! I’m a rapist. I’m one of those men who likes to force myself on women without their consent or desire and then batter them sexually. The details of how I do this are not particularly important at the moment — although I love when you try to make distinctions about “forcible rape” or “legitimate rape” because that gives me all sorts of wiggle room — but I will tell you one of the details about why I do it: I like to control women and, also and indepedently, I like to remind them how little control they have. There’s just something about making the point to a woman that her consent and her control of her own body is not relevant against the need for a man to possess that body and control it that just plain gets me off. A guy’s got needs, you know? And my need is for control. Sweet, sweet control.

So I want to take time out of my schedule to thank you for supporting my right to control a woman’s life, not just when I’m raping her, but for all the rest of her life as well.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-26T10:04:27-07:00

Colin Powell endorses Obama

Romney Co-Chair: Well, I think that when you have somebody of your own race that you’re proud of being President of the United States — I applaud Colin for standing with him.

Yep, it's just because of Obama's skin tone.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-26T10:18:04-07:00

@RenThing Funny how the same skin tone charge couldn't be made about Sununu's support of Romney. Or is that somehow different?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-26T10:44:07-07:00

Does anyone actually want Colin Powell's endorsement?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-26T13:53:42-07:00

So then, will Colin Powell endorse tea-bagger Representative Allen West?

In other news, the Romney campaign has an opening for someone with photoshop skills.

Seriously, they need help like now.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-26T14:25:23-07:00

Nah, that's not a Photoshop job, just a panorama stitched together badly by a not-that-smart-phone. Republican operatives are evil, but not knuckle-dragging idiots who'd make a fake this bad and think it wouldn't be noticed. I'd love to find a smoking gun of Rmoney trying to puff himself up, but this isn't that.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-27T09:11:56-07:00

"...just don't stop smiling and you won't look creepy like last time...just don't stop smiling and you won't look creepy like last time...just don't stop smiling and you won't look creepy like last time...just don't stop smiling and you won't look creepy like last time...just don't stop smiling and you won't look creepy like last time...MISSION ACCOMPLISHED."

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-29T09:46:31-07:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-30T09:58:39-07:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-30T10:08:46-07:00

THis little video was made by one of the animators of The Simpsons and Family Guy, Lucas Grey.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-30T16:00:33-07:00

HOLY SHIT!!!

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-30T16:05:49-07:00

omg that killed me

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-10-30T16:09:27-07:00

I want to find those folks and ask them to be my new grandparents. Great-grandparents. Whatever.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-01T19:40:44-07:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-02T03:20:47-07:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-02T05:34:12-07:00

Looks like Abigael's not alone.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-02T05:47:34-07:00

Imagine this dipshit as one of the most powerful men in the world and try not to pee yourself:

Will

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-02T07:52:14-07:00

Serious question. Has anyone seen any news around how people in the areas of the northeast US that are powerless in the wake of Sandy are supposed to vote? I've heard people raise the question but no one has an answer.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-02T09:05:57-07:00

It's mostly up to local officials, who are responsible for running elections. But generally:

Plan A is that they get power back on at polling stations before Tuesday, either thru the grid or portable generators.

Plan B is that they move polling stations to locations with power, with directions to the new location posted at the original location (and however else they can reasonably get the word out).

With polling stations that are no longer fit for use (or don't exist anymore), they'll go directly to Plan B.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-02T09:23:50-07:00

The other option I've seen is military trucks functioning as polling places.

This isn't a problem I'm going to have, but I kind of wonder why I haven't heard more about it, you know? It irks me.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-02T16:49:23-07:00

Wait, you need power to be able to vote? In the UK we still use pencils and bits of paper...

We have this fundamental distrust of doing it electronically I think, it just doesn't feel right unless you have to scrawl a giant X in graphite on a ballot paper as long as your arm.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-02T17:06:14-07:00

Yes! Americans ARE fundamentally untrustworthy!

(Paper and pencil here in Canada, too, obvs.)

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-02T17:11:43-07:00

Paper and SOMETHING TO WRITE ON PAPER here in Finland, too.

If it ain't broken &c.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-02T17:38:25-07:00

It varies from state to state in the US (and I think even by county in some states). Some do electronic, some do punch cards, some do pencil and paper. There was a big move to electronic after 2000 because of the hanging/dimpled/whatever chad debacle with the recounts.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-02T21:53:58-07:00

What David said. But yeah. What's extra fucked up is that the Romneys have a stake in some electronic voting machines in Ohio...

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-03T02:25:39-07:00

This is the former First Lady of Ohio doing her bit.

I'm so very, very sorry.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-04T16:37:10-08:00

Neat interactive look at potential presidential race results based on projected outcomes for battleground states.

Thanks, New York Times!

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-04T18:04:31-08:00

Still cross-referencing this, but it appears people were not being allowed to leave a Romney rally in Pennsylvania. No idea about this "frostbite" thing, but if even if that's bullshit, people should still be allowed to leave if they want.

What I want to know is, what's he doing in Pennsylvania? Dude should be down in North Carolina, trying to stop the pinkifying of what had, until recently, been a landslide state for him.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-04T19:44:59-08:00

I am not an expert, but I can say from observing the process in my area; that they probably have ways of getting things done; punch cards and portable power; the ballots themselves would have been printed & made some time ago. Now the real hell? - the folks COUNTING your votes & write=in's. There's a LOT of work that goes into that, even in areas where a fair amount of it's done electronically. Lotsa local gov. folks staying up all night. I expect some areas might get their votes in later (I remember one area in michigan had issues with a bear while they were trying to tally shit up) - but I'm sure the voting will get done and counted. I've heard something about some places allowing email votes, but can't recall WHERE I read that.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-05T00:23:55-08:00

I'm actually out drinking tomorrow evening, so I fully intend to stay up once I get back and watch the results trickle in live.

Hopefully the BBC will have a drunken Simon Schama pissing off the republican pundits like they did last time round.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-05T01:37:05-08:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-05T01:51:17-08:00

This is really funny (probably related to Alan's link)

#RomneyDeathRally

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-05T06:44:28-08:00

Warren's vice column makes for good reading

Good Morning Sinners

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-05T07:29:34-08:00

everythings old school paper here, i would never trust a robot with voting

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-05T08:24:23-08:00

@Alan Tyson: Rmoney is in Penna because he's figured out that Ohio is probably lost to him, and he needs something to replace it with. Just shoring up his lead in NC wouldn't be enough.

@TF: Don't share that graphic with xenophobic Republicans... it'll just convince them that "they" all want the US to fail, and renew their panic about a world government attacking American sovereignty.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-05T08:45:44-08:00

@Jason

At least China want the US to succeed (so they can get their money back) :-)

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-05T08:54:48-08:00

@TF: Damn, if only that could have come out earlier, someone could have run a bunch of ads for Romney that end with "Romney: the right choice for China." Now THAT would have been an interesting ad campaign! I wonder if they would actually work, though... a lot of people probably would watch the beginning and tune out or change the channel by the time the sucker punch comes in.

@Why Pennsylvania: Five Thirty Eight had an interesting explanation of that, actually, that centers on the notion that Romney's odds in PA aren't great, but they're better than the odds elsewhere.

Irritatingly, this sudden shift in focus to PA means I now have to debate whether I want to go Green, or whether I should play it safe and vote for Obama. Odds are that it won't matter anyway, but I would feel like an ass if I voted for a third party and then Romney actually won the state. Plus, there's so many stupid things going on with voter registration and ID, it's possible Romney could take the state by deceit if not by force.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-05T11:02:47-08:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-05T11:25:52-08:00

I'm a believer in tactical voting. If the outcome is pre-ordained, I vote for the best third-party candidate available (e.g. Green, Libertarian) to help promote the idea of third-party candidates. If I think my vote could possibly be decisive between the Republican and Democrat, I vote for the Democrat.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-05T14:23:13-08:00

I have had this hanging in my studio since 2008...

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-05T18:32:53-08:00

Re: How people are supposed to vote if displaced or their precinct is shut down by Sandy:

According to Gov. Cuomo, in the affected counties of New York, they can vote wherever they want to.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-05T20:39:36-08:00

Facebook has my hyperventilating about the election and my friends who are big Obama boosters. I'm listening to unobjectionable indie pop and drinking tea to get my blood pressure down.

I want it to be tomorrow so I can cast my vote, go to work, then hit up a concert.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-05T22:09:21-08:00

Good luck, America.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T02:21:24-08:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T04:14:36-08:00

Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities. - Winston Churchill

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T05:37:25-08:00

#Naive Question

The six billion dollars that have been spent on this election - does that money show up in the end economy?

Does it help the economy?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T05:55:20-08:00

This is great stuff from the Guardian

America: Elect! The action-packed journey to US election day in graphic novel form

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T06:08:06-08:00

This is great stuff from the Guardian

America: Elect! The action-packed journey to US election day in graphic novel form

An excellent find, TF.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T07:21:30-08:00

I want it to be tomorrow so I can cast my vote, go to work, then hit up a concert.

yup.

woke up early to go vote (my local stuff is more important to me than the presidential one which i really dont get a vote in since i live in an Old People State), will hopefully avoid most of the Nighttime Horror by being at the CEREMONY/ TITUS ANDRONICUS show

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T08:01:26-08:00

You know what I'm looking forward to tomorrow?

Not getting any more bullshit political mailings. I could wallpaper a house with the spam I've received through the mail.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T08:05:42-08:00

@RenThing, are you in a swing state?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T08:30:52-08:00

No, I'm in California. We have a lot of very contentious state propositions on the ballots. If I have to hear one more thing abou GMO labelling I'm going to scream.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T08:31:04-08:00

I can only imagine how bad it is for those bastards in Ohio.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T08:33:19-08:00

My boyfriend and I love shouting YOU'RE WASTING YOUR MONEY at the TV every time we get a Romney ad. We live in New York.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T08:58:47-08:00

*nod* Yeah, I can't remember the last time I heard a presidential advertisement. My wife and I don't have television (Roku FTW) at the moment but I think the last time California was considered contested in any way was in 1992.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T08:59:14-08:00

@ TF- thank you for pointing out the #romneydeathrally tag, it has been keeping me entertained all day.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T09:22:14-08:00

Facebook is positively luminous with reports of faulty or finnicky voting machines, attempts to keep people out of voting lines, and, here in good old Pennsylvania, attempts to get people to show photo ID even though you don't actually have to. I'm hoping a solid majority are false, but I'm also pleased that in the age of camera phones we're getting lots and lots of documentation.

I'm also ready to join the Can't Wait For This To Be Over party. Do we get shirts?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T09:29:21-08:00

#NaiveQuestion

The Eleventy Bazillion Dollars spent on the campaign are part of the US economy, and that does benefit television stations in battleground states, direct-mail companies, telemarketing outfits, and so on. Which isn't inherently bad for the economy, and does serve to draw cash out of certain billionaires' offshore accounts and spend it domestically, but it also saps money away from productive parts of the economy.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T12:17:19-08:00

So turns out some voting machines in PA are doing this:

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T14:15:32-08:00

The machines seemed to be working just now when my sister and I voted, but apparently some of the record sheets were printed with incorrect numbering... the officials were just correcting them by hand, but it still makes me more than a little uneasy. I'm not sure how much of this is paranoia, how much is just stupid technical errors inherent to a process this vast, and how much is legitimate shenaniganery.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T14:57:30-08:00

Man, that video is frightening.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T15:04:45-08:00

I just got to thinking about a the potential Romney cabinet.

- Bolton? A huge State Dept. middle finger to everyone else.
- Condi Rice? Maybe?
- Huntsman? State, defs. but too much of a waffle for the base.
- Cain, never.
- Newt. NEVER EVER. (not a team player)
- Ron Paul. HAHAHA no.
- Santorum? ewwww

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T15:24:51-08:00

@taphead:

Nightmare: Norquist as White House Chief of Staff.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T15:26:12-08:00

Brrrr.

I think that crowd is a bit DONE by now, thank god.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T15:40:48-08:00

Not sure where i stole this from: Someone's been doing a bit of last minute tinkering with those voting machines.

Do they actually need to win or can they get away with blurring the result enough to cast doubt on the whole thing? Interesting times!

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:02:19-08:00

I voted with pen & paper a week ago. I filled in the little circle beside Obama's name, voted to spend a lot of money in-state to make sure the infrastructure doesn't fall apart, and completed the entire task in about 20 minutes. Nobody asked for photo ID, although I had it on me. The whole process was the complete opposite of what I hear going on nationwide today. <3 early voting.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:16:27-08:00

ARRITE BITCHES. Who's watching what and who's drinking what?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:17:34-08:00

CNN because I can't find a channel that gives a fuck.

Drinking St. Peter's Winter Strong Ale then moving on to Amsterdam Tempest Imperial Stout.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:19:12-08:00

I'm on various IRC channels and drinking ANYTHING.

(Currently Weihenstephaner Hefe.)

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:20:34-08:00

Watching: BBC's election map, compared with electoral-vote.com's most recent poll prediction map, irrelevant youtube videos on the side.
Drinking: Meantime London stout. Not bad.

@oldhat - is that the UK St Peter's brewery? If so, good stuff.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:23:20-08:00

Drinking nothing, vaping some Northern Lights.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:27:12-08:00

Trying to avoid poking around online and getting caught up in the breathless "coming soon!'-ness of it all. My best course of action would be to go read a book tonight and check the results tomorrow morning. Also, my plans to watch the Daily Show/Colbert Report live coverage fell through. :(

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:27:45-08:00

Fivethirtyeight's liveblog.

The liquor cabinet.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:30:28-08:00

256, it is indeed. I am in love with this winter ale.

My dad is actually showing surprise that Romney is getting southern conservative states.

Really.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:33:10-08:00

PBS, MSNBC, Economist's Democracy in America liveblog, and Strongbow. Will now be checking 538's blog (thanks, Alan!!).

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:33:31-08:00

Had to do a little extra paperwork, but I voted. I'm overly caffienated, so I'm probably going to stick to tea. (I save booze for guests.) I'm not really looking at anything, but I'm being informed of it anyway.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:35:39-08:00

BBC on the internet, tail end of a bottle of Paddy's. It is well past bedtime but there's no work tomorrow and i have no body clock.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:39:06-08:00

Just in case you were wondering, yes, we are grumbling on the chat room. JOIN USSSSS.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:39:14-08:00

Double fisting CNN and NBC with a side of twitter. Had one beer already, waiting til the rest of my friends come over to drink more.

Also, just said this on fb and twitter, but I'm really happy to see people being so passionate about voting. As someone who is an American resident, but not a citizen, it makes me feel good when I see my friends not taking their rights for granted.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:43:05-08:00

just seen on twitter as a RT: "If Obama is re-elected Ok needs to succeed from the union." Along with some other tweets about "succeeding"

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:49:22-08:00

I swear, I have to figure this out every 4 years... What's the difference between a Regular Vote and an Electoral Vote?
You vote for who you want and each state is divided into areas, whoever gets the most votes in that area get an Electoral Vote, right? Or am I completely off?

EDIT: I'm a Canadian so I can't vote, but I always get a good laugh out of watching the political race on cross border TV and always get a little nervous as the results can have an actual impact on my country.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T17:56:45-08:00

just seen on twitter as a RT: "If Obama is re-elected Ok needs to succeed from the union." Along with some other tweets about "succeeding"

Can we just let them succeed already?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:01:45-08:00

@warped servant - you're about right on the difference.

edit: to elaborate - each state is worth a different amount of electoral votes. Some as few as 3, some as many as 20. The popular vote determines who gets that states' electoral votes.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:03:27-08:00

Goose Island Honker's Ale, BBC late night coverage and a guy on my left insanely connected to Twitter.

Right now it's 78-89 the wrong way, but let's be honest, it's early yet.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:06:31-08:00

No surprises so far, but I think it be a long night.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:06:44-08:00

It's early, and the really interesting states (Ohio, Colorado, Virginia, among others) still haven't been called.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:12:23-08:00

Although everyone in the buildup (in the UK at least) was focused on Ohio, Florida is the one to watch. It's currently absolutely neck and neck.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:13:09-08:00

This is actually kind of terrifying with how close it's getting...

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:13:55-08:00

If somehow Obama wins Florida though, it can shut Mittens down early. Not likely, but they're are saying the new demographic of non Cuban Latinos makes it possible.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:15:09-08:00

Florida is making me drink faster. I started this night with a full bottle of Kraken. I'm starting to wish I'd bought another one.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:16:16-08:00

@Warped, Argos - each state has a number of electoral votes that it delivers (all of) to the candidate who won the popular vote in that state. congressional elections are districted, but presidential ones are not.

the number of electoral votes that each state has is assigned by black magic.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:20:39-08:00

So... wait.... if Romney gets 51% of of the votes in a states that has 13 Electoral Votes then he gets all 13 E. Votes?
That seems so very wrong...

And the Electoral Votes per state aren't determined by the amount of eligible voters / people that live there?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:20:42-08:00

At least theoretically, it's based on population. Typically, states with more populous cities will also have more electoral college votes.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:28:34-08:00

checking something on the wikipedias, it emerges that (some?) states can split their electoral vote - nebraska in 2008, for example - but very rarely do.

and yeah, you can make a convincing argument that it's a pretty shitty system. but when you look into the (long, convoluted) history of how it ended up like that, and some of the alternatives, you can sort of see how it happened.

edit: pennsylvania!

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:29:30-08:00

And all the bars have now closed, so am out of potables.

HALP

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:29:57-08:00

But... couldn't you, fairly realistically, have 60% of the votes go to the person that lost?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:31:17-08:00

I'm told (out-political geeked for once) that Nebraska and Maine split their electoral college votes proportionally.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:31:20-08:00

Yes, and that's why most people want to get rid of the electoral vote system. Cos it's poo poo.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:34:01-08:00

@Warped - completely possible to get a minority in the popular vote and a majority in the electoral vote. It's a consequence of a limited area first past the post system - it's also possible here in the UK (and I think has happened here).

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:36:07-08:00

@Warped: Depends on the state. One or two states divide their electoral votes on percentage, so if they have 5, and one candidate gets 60% of the popular vote, three go to him, 2 to the other. In a 51-49 situation, they give the majority to whoever gets the majority.

And people freaking out about closeness: It's ALWAYS close until the west coast closes.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:36:10-08:00

Nebraska splits its vote because they understand (correctly) that there is more difference between Omaha and Nebraska than there is between northern and southern California or north and south Jersey.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:39:52-08:00

Nate Silver is saying Florida is showing signs of going Obama.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:40:07-08:00

I think so far, Mittens has won 4 out of the 5 electorial votes for Nebraska.

edit: Elizabeth Warren won the Massachusetts senate seat over Scott Brown!

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:47:01-08:00

i was hoping that virginia would go blue, but i'm starting to doubt it. ugh.

re: electoral college - i think you have to understand it as an attempt to represent the interests of each state, as an entity, fairly, as well as representing each individual voter. and like a lot of compromises, it's more camel than horse.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:47:27-08:00

Holy WOW, North Carolina is close: 51% Romney, 48% Obama, with 70% reporting. It'll probably still go red, but still. Kind of a pleasant surprise.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:49:58-08:00

:O My friend just said that his parents told him he's not welcome home for Christmas cos he voted for Obama.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T18:53:22-08:00

New Hampshire YEAH

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T19:03:04-08:00

and that's why it's a secret ballot.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T19:06:30-08:00

:O My friend just said that his parents told him he's not welcome home for Christmas cos he voted for Obama.

He's better off being an orphan.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T19:06:57-08:00

He can come stay with us.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T19:09:42-08:00

I'm glad both of the "rape guys" lost.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T19:10:56-08:00

I'm not old enough to remember too many of these, but the "Come to Canada" and "Sorry Everybody" sentiments are the strongest associations I have with US elections. So, you know.

Drinking Cheval Blanc and still casting around for a coverage site that will function on either a smartphone or a five-year-old Eee PC. PBS's map worked for about five minutes. Are there results apps for Android anyone can recommend? I mostly just want a news-ticker of numbers to watch slack-jawed for a while.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T19:20:57-08:00

The Columbus dispatch is reporting that Obama an Romney have each won more than Ohio's total number of voters.

Clearly, Ohio is so valuable that both candidates have been courting voters from alternate timelines.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T19:27:01-08:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T19:51:42-08:00

...SOMEBODY ELSE SAY SOMETHING. IT'S TOO QUIET.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T19:52:56-08:00

BROWN IS DONE IN .MA

Warren wins.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T19:57:11-08:00

Obama's up by 50000 in Florida. That means we get victory soon, right?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:04:22-08:00

so close

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:04:28-08:00

I don't know. The Guardian says 93% reporting, Obama 49.8% Romney 49.3. Knife edge. Recounts imminent?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:07:58-08:00

Almost inevitable, I'd say.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:13:52-08:00

274. Whew!

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:16:34-08:00

Fox News just called OH for Obama. Nothing official yet, but DAYUM.

Also, fuck you Scott Brown. WARREN! YEAH.

And NBC also called it for Obama.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:18:12-08:00

OH SHI-

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:19:48-08:00

HOLY FU-

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:21:49-08:00

And it looks like the Democrats can retain control over senate...?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:22:49-08:00

BBC calls Ohio for Obama - four more years, for sure.

Aaaaamd breathe.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:23:53-08:00

Loving watching Fox News implode right now.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:25:29-08:00

are they flinging their own shit around the studio yet?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:25:38-08:00

CNN, Huffpost, MSNBC...it;s happening.

Fucking hell. Amazing.

I'm breaking out the Belgian ale aged for six months in Pinot Noir Oak barrels for this.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:26:59-08:00

FOUR MORE YEARS, FOUR MORE YEARS

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:28:38-08:00

Whooooooooooooooaly fuck. Okay. Phwew!

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:30:33-08:00

I need a cigarette.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:32:23-08:00

And the world breathes a sigh of relief.

So long Mittens. You won't be missed.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:35:35-08:00

I'm still paranoid.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:38:32-08:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:40:04-08:00

Done, folks. Wrap party.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:41:43-08:00

Is it wrong that I kinda want to listen to "My Boyfriend's Back" ?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:43:03-08:00

...and the Romney camp is not conceding Ohio...even though all of the news outlets including FOX is calling it for Obama.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:43:39-08:00

Alan, here's a version that inappropriately references that the boyfriend is black.

Me First & the Gimme Gimmes cover "My Boyfriend's Back"

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:48:30-08:00

Dorkmuffin, that made my night. I mean, that and Obama winning the election.

In other news, is Nate Silver a witch?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:50:29-08:00

Donald Trump is having a complete meltdown on Twitter.

This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:55:26-08:00

"We are not a democracy!"

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T20:58:10-08:00

Thank fucking Christ. Good night folks.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T21:02:57-08:00

And so many of the nutbars are out of a job. Amazing.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T21:09:34-08:00

So naïve, Robin. The nutbars will have much higher paying jobs as pundits now.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T21:11:53-08:00

Weed is now legal in two states.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T21:15:56-08:00

WOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

fuck the guy on NBC saying "we have a Latino problem" :|

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T21:16:31-08:00

So, now that we've cleaned out Congress, can we get to work on our television news pundits?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T21:37:51-08:00

I always thought of Bill O'Reilly as a tool. Now I think of him as a racist douchebag.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T21:52:45-08:00

Does anyone know anything solid about Puerto Rico maybe becoming the 51st state? I keep hearing references to it, but nothing solid.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T21:55:56-08:00

Alan -- Here's a well written article about it: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/11/06/puertorico-us-election.html

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T21:58:38-08:00

Welp. Woke up in time for the concession speech.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T22:07:59-08:00

...which was very well written and well said.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T22:09:39-08:00

The man looked downright relieved.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T22:11:09-08:00

I do wonder how he would have turned out if he hadn't given in to the loving embrace of the crazy motherfuckers.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T22:15:52-08:00

He never would have resisted. Ever. Speculation is null.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T22:24:00-08:00

FUCK IT. GOING TO BED.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T22:36:58-08:00

Good job America. Now I don't have to punch you all in the ear cartilage.

In other news, I thought O'Reilly had lost his ability to make me WTF, but I should never have doubted him really. Say what you like about the Brit media, they'd never get away with being so blatantly bigoted as that.

Night night. See you in 4 years.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T22:45:26-08:00

Now that that's all over, let's take a minute to reflect on Presidents past...

The Hall of Presidents
If Obama's second term can be even half as successful as that of Roy Wizzle, everything will be OK.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T23:09:53-08:00

What a speech. I can't believe a President-elect mentioned climate change in his acceptance speech.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T23:12:58-08:00

Just woke-up and was more than a little afraid to turn-on the TV.

Thank FUCKETY.

Anyway, here's Beyonce's sentiments:

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T23:17:28-08:00

@Alan, I KNOW, RIGHT? I let out a little "woah" too.

Me, I just feel a sense of accomplishment...that I chose REO Speedwagon's "Roll With The Changes" as a good victory song at least and hour or so before Obama HQ did.

What, I'm Canadian. I'll take what victory I can get.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-06T23:46:08-08:00

I mostly don't feel joy so much as a profound sense of relief that my country will not be given over to a soulless shapeshifter and his lunatic supporters.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T00:13:21-08:00

Just this:

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T05:42:32-08:00

Okay, well, great. That's all done and settled then.

Soooo...

Americans - Hand in your guns. Mecca's that way - prayer matts are over there.

What? No?

Damn...

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T06:46:10-08:00

"So, now that we've cleaned out Congress, can we get to work on our television news pundits?"

Congress is nowhere near "cleaned out". We got a few new faces in the Senate, but 2/3 of them weren't even up for reelection, and most of the House also got re-elected.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T07:14:41-08:00

Romney's concession speech should have just been: "And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for you meddling women and minorities."

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T07:50:06-08:00

My question: Now that MA has legalized medical marijuana, do you think we might get some clinical trials and research into medical applications? I'm sure the funding is not really there, which is a shame. Medical marijuana may have a lot of potential, but like any other drug it really should be tested and researched so that the appropriate dosing and administration is determined by condition.

Edit: reasoning behind this question is the number of incredibly prestigious hospitals and universities in MA.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T08:04:02-08:00

Watched the votes on tv & politico. Waiting to find out how many votes my stepdad DID get (he didnt win) in the office he was seeking. Knew he'd won last night before bed, but it didn't really feel like much of a win before this morning. I guess I needed time for stuff to sink in.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T08:30:28-08:00

I have to admit, the news of two states legalizing pot, four states voting in popular referendum in favor of marriage equality, the first lesbian senator, and Puerto Rico voting to join us kind of overshadowed Obama's reelection for me. Possibly because Nate Silver's been saying all along that he was going to win, whereas all this stuff came as a surprise. These broader, state-based changes are probably more significant for progressivism than just the reelection is. Although the fact that we dodged the potential bullet of RMoney-appointed Supreme Court Justices is kind of a big deal, too...

That was a hell of a speech, too. Climate Change, strident support of multiculturalism and equality, gay rights, open talk of workers uniting and supporting each other (which I can't help but think of as a jab at Ryan's Ayn Rand fandom)... Obama's pretty centrist, but damn, that was a really overtly leftist speech.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T08:55:23-08:00

I read that as 'workers urinating on each other'.

I think I stayed up too late last night.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T08:56:46-08:00

@oddcult-
It's safe to go to bed ;)

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T09:15:05-08:00

Shit, and now each time I re-read it, that's what I see too.

So glad this election is over.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T10:18:52-08:00

we voted in a bisexual atheist congresswoman in my district and i couldnt be happier. that feels like the real victory for me as she is someone whom ive watched the past 5 or so years on PBS roundtables and i feel like i finally have a real voice in politics

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T12:43:50-08:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T13:32:35-08:00

I like the idea of Karl Rove getting upset.

Don't care what about, it's just nice that Karl Rove isn't happy.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T13:34:18-08:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T14:23:38-08:00

I think she's a little mad Obama won

Very very NSFW

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T14:54:48-08:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T15:15:17-08:00

I'm feeling different kinds of happy about different contests. The Obama/Romney match-up was the one that could've caused the worst repercussions if it'd gone the wrong way, so on that one I'm mostly relieved. The shellacking that Team Rape took is satisfying. The election of an openly queer woman to the Senate, and popular vote measures for gay marriage actually passing, leaves me incredulous, and wondering how "old" it makes me that I'm still alive to see so dramatic a shift on one of the core issues of my life. The restoration of Ted Kennedy's seat to Democratic hands (where it belongs) is comforting. A Buddhist and a Hindu getting elected to Congress from Hawaii is sorta cool. Democrats eking out Senate seats in the red states of Montana and North Dakota is reassuring. The drubbing that my state rep. got after switching to the GOP at the last minute before filing, and recruiting a fake Democrat to throw the election to him, which resulted in an unofficial team-up between a real Democrat and a principled Republican both running aggressive write-in campaigns to make sure he lost to one of them (and it was the Democrat)... that's intensely gratifying. The news about Puerto Rico trending toward statehood is... interesting. (Sorry, but I have to ask: how would PR getting seats in Congress affect the balance of power?) The legalization of marijuana makes me smile, but it's the decriminalization (down to a $25 ticket for possession of any amount) in my own puritanical city of Grand Rapids MI that... well, I'm gonna have a huge Cheez-Kurls-eating grin on my face as soon as the result is certified.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T17:03:19-08:00

@ RenThing:

Jesus...just...I honestly don't know. Which came first: being pissed-off at the election result or the (in)actions of her so-called internet friends?

Either very drunk or at the start of a psyche episode, probably linked to PTSD from her "8 months in a Palin group."

Whatever the fuck it was, she kept doing a bang-up job of neutralising every pang of sympathy I felt for her.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T20:28:08-08:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T20:41:43-08:00

Making news in Australia today - Georgia teen Kristen Neel...

Our Prime Minister is female and an atheist.

Unfortunately she's deleted her twitter account, so we're denied any earlier pearls of wisdom.

There actually seem to be a lot of Republicans tweeting about moving here. Apparently they don't realise that we have socialised healthcare and strict gun control laws, and among our politicians Obama would be considered right of centre.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T20:57:31-08:00

From my Aussie coworker:

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T20:57:48-08:00

She was thinking of Kevin Rudd, no doubt, who held press conferences outside his church on Sundays.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-07T21:10:50-08:00

@Greasemonkey

But did he actually support what he says? I'm not convinced...

;)

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T06:06:14-08:00

Has Florida been called yet? I can't actually find anything.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T07:29:36-08:00

It doesn't matter if Florida gets called or not. Even if Romney were to take it, Obama has still the majority of the Electoral College votes to have the presidency.

For once, Florida doesn't fucking matter in an election.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T07:55:32-08:00

IT looks like it's too close to call and so they have to count absentee ballots too.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T08:29:05-08:00

I know a few people who are downright gleefully celebrating Florida's irrelevance. Revenge for 2000, apparently, is best served cold.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T08:57:49-08:00

I am one of those people.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T09:11:30-08:00

HAHAHA. Please read this. It's one of those articles that gets so downright CRAZY it becomes entertaining.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T09:24:29-08:00

I believe we all need to express disgust with Obama and Democrats in public places. To some extent I already do this. Example:
When I'm at the Wal-mart or grocery story I typically pay with my debit card. On the pad it comes up, "EBT, Debit, Credit, Cash." I make it a point to say loudly to the check-out clerk, "EBT, what is that for?" She inevitably says, "it's government assistance." I respond, "Oh, you mean welfare? Great. I work for a living. I'm paying for my food with my own hard-earned dollars. And other people get their food for free." And I look around with disgust, making sure others in line have heard me.

Meanwhile all the others in line are just thinking "Just fucking hurry up so I can get this food home, asshole".

Wow, thanks for this, Argos.

...though I'm starting to think this is a joke...but I'm not sure.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T09:34:38-08:00

Also, White People Mourning Romney is a thing now

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T12:18:41-08:00

I am confused by the American Republican use of the term Libertarian. Are they following the ideas of the First International, or Joseph Déjacque's brand of anarcho-communism?

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T12:34:45-08:00

They're following the ideas of Jed Clampett of The Beverly Hillbillies.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T12:42:29-08:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T12:45:49-08:00

So, in this election, you guys also got the first disabled woman, first openly lesbian woman, first Asian woman elected in the Senate, but what's more important is you got the first openly orcish woman elected in the Maine Senate.

Take that, alliance scum !

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T13:24:14-08:00

A well run campaign!!!

Romney staffers trying to get home on election night found their credit cards had already been cut off

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T13:24:42-08:00

oh hey, I forgot about her. For the Horde!!

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T14:14:25-08:00

@oldhat - aw, god damn. I didn't know Janine Turner was a bible thumping conservative. What a bummer. I wish I didn't know that.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T14:26:56-08:00

William, Yeah, she supported Sarah Palin, even.

What's bugging me is all the people who claim to be Christian saying horrible things like "I hope Obama's daughters get gang-raped by Muslims" etc. That's really not the Christianity I know and to spew so much hate when at the same time claiming to be a part of a religion based of love is....eh.

Nothing against Christianity, but more against a certain group of Christians (a distinction I think a lot of atheists can't make, but that's another talk).

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T14:38:47-08:00

"William, Yeah, she supported Sarah Palin, even."

Aaargh!!! Even worse.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T15:16:48-08:00

I was raised in a conservative Christian household, and have friends and family of that sort, so on some level I get majorly pissed off at the people-hating, planet-raping turds who use those labels, on behalf of the decent people who actually follow the teachings of Jesus and try to manage the earth cautiously and responsibly. Then I remind myself that I don't use those labels myself anymore, so I let it go.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T16:08:38-08:00

On the subject of all the surprisingly progressive elections: New Hampshire just elected a transgender woman to their state legislature. That's pretty freaking cool.

I would love to know why God didn't intervene and keep all these LGBTQ folks out of office. I mean, as others have said, nothing against Christianity as a whole but if these hard-core fundamentalist folks truly believe God sways elections, isn't it conceivable that maybe God is on the side of the progressives? Isn't that what this election should suggest?

The double-think involved there is fascinating.

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T19:12:52-08:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-08T19:31:20-08:00

Resurrecting this post (way at the bottom of the page) one last time!

On 1/05, Si asked us to call the election. I said Obama beats Romney, taking 60% of the popular vote. Actual total- 50% Obama, 48% Romney. So much for phenomenal psychic powers. :(

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-09T17:13:07-08:00

Rise Of The US Election Thread

2012-11-09T18:50:37-08:00

It is fantastically unbelievable that the Republicans are calculating returns-on-investment for political donations.
'Hrm, let's see, projected tax cut would've been ... minus cost of forming new lobbying group ... plus the price I saved on a victory party ticket ... '

I hope some idiot actually sues a candidate (or Rove) for damages. Then maybe you guys can take the opportunity to illustrate the difference between 'donation' and 'investment.'