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    • CommentAuthorRenThing
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2012
     (10841.21)
    @Oldhat

    I'm glad you posted the How to make a rape joke link because I was going to. George Carlin also had a pretty good (and I'd say responsible) rape bit he did in his stand up as well.

    Regarding rape and jokes, I think I have to say that my thoughts line up with the Jezebel article (which is a weird thing to write).
  1.  (10841.22)
    i personally dont find any problems with that Dickwolves strip. i thought it was pretty clear about how it was using its own internal logic to make a joke about stereotypical rpg stuff. i didnt realize until just recently that a bunch of people were upset about it
    •  
      CommentAuthoroldhat
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2012 edited
     (10841.23)
    If memory serves, there was a base rage over the strip and then Gabe and Tycho's reaction to the criticism kind of made it explode and ti turned in to a pretty disgusting thing.

    found a timeline of the whole..thing.

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      CommentAuthormister hex
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2012
     (10841.24)
    Re : Alan Moore - I have found that anytime he uses rape in a story (which kinda is a lot, now that I think about it ...) it serves a narrative purpose and isn't just prurient exploitation. I remember reading a quote from him about how ... elated he felt when he wrote the Rorschach-breaks-the-guy's-fingers scene, because it was fun to write but later he felt quite ill about enjoying it.

    Re " Rape jokes? Yeah, rape's not funny. I used to somewhat enjoy Daniel Tosh's mean-spirited clown act because you never really knew when he wasn't actually kidding. (He switches his sexuality from gay to straight and back again like, fifteen times in the course of one act. For example.) But he's a fucking jerkoff.

    I find it reprehensible that DC - fucking WARNER - would put so much sexual violence in comics, ESPECIALLY Amethyst, a comic nominally aimed at "girls".
  2.  (10841.25)
    I think I find it disturbing when the female character is reduced to the result of an earlier rape ( I'm not saying it doesn't have an impact throughout all aspects of people's lives, but that the reality is much more complex) so every decision and act, especially when it comes to behaviour not sociably acceptable, difficult or assertive results just from that one act. It's lazy writing and doesn't capture the complexity of people's reactions to stressful situations.
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      CommentAuthoroldhat
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2012
     (10841.26)
    Wasn't there a big controversy where it was looking like Lara Croft in the new Tomb Raider may have been motivated by rape? Pretty sure the developers made it clear later that wasn't the case, but that kind of shit I find stupid and lazy.
  3.  (10841.27)
    Yeah, that's the one I was thinking of in particular.
    • CommentAuthorArgos
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2012
     (10841.28)
    Yeah, but it turned out that if you don't "save her" in that scene, her attacker just shoots her. It apparently was never an attempted rape.
  4.  (10841.29)
    oh hey i missed this
    One thing I ALSO hate - "George Lucas raped by childhood" and comments such-like.


    OOOOH DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED
    im a hard dude to offend, but this shit drives me fucking nuts. people that use rape to try to give some strength to their (often retarded) arguments. fuck off forever and ever.
    • CommentAuthorRenThing
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2012
     (10841.30)
    @joe.distort

    Small thing but, while being a nerd playing WoW, I ejected a dude from a forty-man raid in the old days because he said he was going to "Rape the boss". I told the 38 remaining players that I'd boot their asses too if I ever heard them use that kind of language. None of them disagreed.
  5.  (10841.31)
    I felt Iain Banks crossed the line in Transition. There is a scene which the young character overhears and it helps shapes his character, which is fine, but the detail felt like it crossed a line.
    • CommentAuthorRenThing
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2012
     (10841.32)
    Have any of you read the Thomas Covenant series?

    I read the first one and couldn't get past the detail that pretty much the first thing the protagonist did, after realizing he no longer had leporsy, was to rape a young woman whose family had taken him in.

    I'm sorry, I understand he thought it was just a dream or some kind of hallucination, but that's just fucked on several levels.
    •  
      CommentAuthorglukkake
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2012
     (10841.33)
    I just get really tired where "this strong female character became so strong because she was raped!" is the main thing that builds female characters. Not like, oh, any number of reasons why male characters get to be badasses. Like, if my family/lover/beloved whatever was killed before me that wouldn't turn me into a hero/anti-hero/villain.

    Aside from the kind of eye rolling considering that I have been through sexual violence and I haven't just immediately dedicated my life to getting revenge/going on a vigilante streak/etc. Nor have many other men and women who've been through the experience. It kind of makes the character feel two dimensional.

    So it's not that I want it censored, it's just that I feel like the story isn't going to go anywhere new and it immediately makes me less interested in the book. And some days I am, in fact, so sensitive to the fact that I've just ingested so much about sexual violence towards people that I will just throw it in the garbage because I am exhausted from living in that world and this piece of fiction that was supposed to be about a bank heist or alien invasions or something is now all about how the main character was raped and how it formed them into a the whatever character they are today. And I find it disproportionately done towards strong female characters.

    I mean, it's true that it's a part of life and it should be depicted so as not to whitewash experiences but it's just like, we have OTHER experiences too!


    Although, in my opinion, for this book, it seems like such a throwaway scene that I'm not terribly unimpressed by it. But it's also been a slow day of rape media for me today.
  6.  (10841.34)
    @glukkake THIS
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      CommentAuthormister hex
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2012
     (10841.35)
    @glukkake - *claps loudly* THIS, indeed.

    @oldhat - one's mileage varies, with Chris Sims. (BATMANOLOGIST, MY AUNT PETUNIA!!!) Not the most elegant thinker but still, not BAD.

    Now is the time where we mention Women In Refridgerators. (Thanks, DC!) Or the time Superman and Big Barda made a sex tape. (Thanks again, DC!) Or Identity Crisis. (YOU MIND-RAPED BATMAN?! WHAT?! And you ACTUALLY RAPED SUE DIBNY?! WHAT?!)

    Like, I get it, "Biff! Bang Pow! Comics Aren't For Kids No More" but JESUS.
    •  
      CommentAuthorFinagle
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2012 edited
     (10841.36)
    I was waiting for Women in Refrigerators to pop up - rape and the killing of women as a way to give motivation to a male protagonist.

    You can *all* recognize that scene coming from a mile away.

    The hero comes home or arrives at the villain's hideout or his wife's place of work. He takes in the broken glass, the overturned furniture. He's too late. Slowly he turns...step by step, inch by inch. The closed door of something beckons him. What's in the boooooox, man, what's in the boooox? He looks.

    "NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" Commence revenge driven badass action.

    What would be a real change for this trope would be the hero actually *living* with the woman afterwards, and having to recognize that his muscles and superpowers can't do anything to touch her PTSD when she wakes up in the night. Now that would be...different.
  7.  (10841.37)
    Firefly also has a race of villians murderous cannibals that also rape, “If they take the ship, they’ll rape us to death, eat our flesh and sew our skins into their clothing. And if we’re very very lucky, they’ll do it in that order." to me in that quote the word rape isn't needed, portraying the villians as cannibals and murders, that make clothes out of skin is enough for the 'these are bad people light' to come on in my head.

    And Marvel are not innocent in this either, Lady Bullseye, Ultimate Wasp, Black Cat( they retconned her, but they may have re-retconned her since, i stopped reading ), Karma, Gamora and Young Hawkeye all have ( or it's been added later ) sexual violence as part of their backstory.
  8.  (10841.38)
    Having rape never mentioned in the media would make it appear that the media thinks it doesn't happen. It's one thing to discuss it (IE: Friefly mentioning that the Reapers rape their victims) but it's another thing entirely to graphically show it in a comic (Neonomicon) or a movie (Girl with the Dragon Tattoo). I use these three examples as they've all be mentioned and I've seen / read them and I want to discuss the various ways they affected me.

    Mentioning rape: Doesn't bother me when used to show that someone is a bad, bad person. Describe it is different, and that would really depend on the level of description, but it would have to be really minor / non-specific for me to not find it distasteful.

    Showing rape in a comic: I bought Neonomicon in singles and it has made it so that I will not buy another thing by him unless it is a complete collection that I can look through first. POV rape, fuzzy or not, justified by it being a horror comic or not, I don't care. It was brutal, went on too long, and could have been handled much better.
    That being said, Crossed by Ennis and Burrows didn't bother me at all. If it happened it was either implied, didn't have much attention drawn to it (was in the background) or was so over the top it was ridiculous. Also, the difference between the two is that Crossed was a gore / visual horror comic right out of the gate whereas Neonomicon was presented as more of a psychological horror comic.

    Showing rape in a movie: I walked into The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (Amercian Version by David Fincher) knowing that there was a rape scene and that it was brutal enough that the main male actor involved locked himself in his hotel room crying for the entirety of the following day and refused to come out. It was still more brutal than I could have possibly expected. It made me uncomfortable, yes, but it seemed to fit into the movie. The other difference is that you can close your eyes, look away, plug your ears, etc. and you're only missing a few minutes of the movie but you still know what happened and you don't feel like you missed anything. With the second issue of Neonomicon, it was nearly half the issue.

    A really good example of an implied rape scene in a movie: Go watch Kalifornia. Not a great movie, but they handled it so well, I have to applaud the director for how he handled it.

    Personal stats if people think they matter: Male victim of sexual assault over an extended period of time at a very young age (by a female), two friends of mine have been killed and then raped, and I know a few girls that have been raped. Yes, it hits very close to home for me, no, I'm not desensitized to it, no, I don't think I'm more or less sensitive to it than most people.
    Also, if you don't think you know at least 5 people that have been raped, you're fooling yourself.
    •  
      CommentAuthordispophoto
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2012
     (10841.39)
    it's late and i might not be expressing myself properly, but one thing that came to mind is:

    a lot of people, especially women who are involved in subcultures seem to have a have a higher percentage of experiencing sexual or other forms of assault in their childhood/teenage years. Could the comics genre or other media that caters to them be a form of connecting to them or giving them a chance to express or visualize their revenge fantasies? or a way to make them feel they are not alone?

    as for knowing someone who has been raped, i can count a fair number of my exes who have experienced rape, been gang raped, roofied, in a relationship of forced sex, and one who suspects she is a product of a rape. some (like my fiancee) have been to therapy and gotten through it, but others, even with help, "completely lost her soul" as a friend put it.

    i'm ambiguous about rape plots & the like, for example Koike & Kojima's "Lone Wolf and Cub" and "Samurai Executioner" have a fair number of rape scenes in their stories (especially "Executioner") but i felt they weren't gratuitous since they were tightly tied with the story. I haven't read any of Crossed and don't wish to, since i first saw some pages while going through a really bad breakup and ended up getting turned off completely by the work. On a whole, i try to avoid any stories that depict rape as much as possible.
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      CommentAuthordorkmuffin
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2012
     (10841.40)
    OH. I thought a really good example of rape in comics, used properly, was Habibi.

    I also thought that comic was amazing.

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