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      CommentAuthorphill_sea
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2012
     (10898.1)
    Hey,
    I have been a huge fan of Mindless Self Indulgence for a Long, Long (like, 13 years long) Time, and their next album is a kickstarter that is starting (IMO) really slowly.

    MSI Kickstarter

    Thought I'd post this here in case any 'chaplain fans weren't aware.

    MSI, in case you don't know are "Industrial Pussy Punk Rock" and have arguably been the least advertised, largest influence on modern popular music in the last decade. It's pretty easy to trace Dubstep straight to MSI, for instance... [NOTE: DEBATE WELCOME]
  1.  (10898.2)
    ...always struck me as one of those bands that uses the term punk but doesnt really play it or tour w punk bands or anything related to it.

    the stuff ive heard isnt bad though, its just a huge pet peeve of mine when bands do that
  2.  (10898.3)
    [NOTE: DEBATE WELCOME]


    You are entirely wrong about all things.

    /helping
    •  
      CommentAuthorphill_sea
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2012
     (10898.4)
    @Joe
    1. I'm glad you like the stuff you've heard, and a potential new album for $1 or $5 means you can't really go wrong, right?
    2. They've always had a hard time (until they started headlining) finding the right bands to tour with. The closest was definitely when they opened for System of a Down, since SOAD have the heightened self awareness to laugh at the tongue in cheek themes MSI present, but are still energetic enough to put on a good show.

    OTOH MSI opening for Coal Chamber was a disaster, generally speaking, because the majority of Coal Chamber fans (apparently) took themselves too seriously to "get" what MSI was doing, or why they were there.

    3.I'd want us to define what "Punk" is before entering into a discussion about whether or not MSI fit that description.
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe.distort
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2012 edited
     (10898.5)
    ugh
    nevermind

    i just come across like a dick

    im sore from gang vocal leaps and jumping around like an idiot last night at a HC show with a bunch of enthusiastic kids

    i dont want to debate what punk is ever again in my life
  3.  (10898.6)
    •  
      CommentAuthorAlan Tyson
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2012
     (10898.7)
    @phil_sea: Define punk in a technical, stylistic sense, or in a thematic sense? Because I think the former goal has merit, and can be accomplished. The latter... I dunno. That might just lead to some bruised knees.

    As for Mindless Self Indulgence, they have some fun guitar things.
    •  
      CommentAuthorkperkins
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2012
     (10898.8)
    I love MSI. No shit. you can debate what is, or isn't "punk" all day and all night, but as far as I'm concerned, MSI is punk, just like Fugazi is punk, and Green Velvet is punk. If you don't agree with me, then you're a stupidhead. :P
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      CommentAuthorglukkake
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2012
     (10898.9)
    Woah, thanks for this! I have also been an MSI fan for well over a decade now (jesus christ). I've long since given up trying to debate what sort of music they are and why people should like them. They headline their own stuff these days it seems and they damn well deserve it.

    Throwing my monetary support to them one more time now.
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      CommentAuthorphill_sea
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2012
     (10898.10)
    Shying away from the genre classification/definition discussion for a moment. . .

    I'm surprised by how little re-sharing and re-hashing I've seen for this kick starter, given a lot of my friends are really into them as well.

    I would've thought, given the packed large theater venue in Detroit earlier this year, that their fans paid more attention, or were more willing to donate than this.

    Still, the kickstarter has 40ish days to go, so I'm hoping they've got some "Closer to the end" updates and media surges planned, and in the mean time I'll post it to places I think appropriate.

    (Please feel free to do the same :-p)


    Definition:
    Punk music to me is anything that puts an different/uncomfortable twist to an accepted genre.

    Thinking about it, any sort of intentional anachronism is also punk to me, and I would describe unintended anachronisms as "Punk" too, but more light heartedly.
  4.  (10898.11)
    see and i mean actual punk rock, which is why i hate this conversation
    punk:
    hardcore, 77, uk82, dis-core, powerviolence, poppunk etc etc etc
    not punk:
    'my polka band about vegan rights really makes people uncomfortable at the co-op open mic nights'
    •  
      CommentAuthoroldhat
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2012 edited
     (10898.12)
    LET'S FUCK SOME SHIT UP, YOU MOTHERFUCKERS.



    On another note, I don't really care about the genres. You like the music? Awesome. Leave it at that.
  5.  (10898.13)
    well thats fine and all, but genre IS important for describing.

    i cant just say 'oh this band is good, they sound like good stuff' and have it be of any use to anyone

    its not like i ONLY listen to one genre. i like all sorts of stuff. its just that theres this one thing that has been with me longest and has treated me best, and it gets thrown around a lot and applied to stuff that it doesnt really describe
    •  
      CommentAuthorphill_sea
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2012 edited
     (10898.14)
    @Joe and Alan

    Okay, so describe the genre of punk.

    Is it up tempo? down tempo?

    On average what are the beats per minute of a punk song?

    What time signatures are typically used?

    Does punk generally include staccato drums, snare or tom tom?

    What instruments are favored in punk, and what are some examples of not-those, that still adhere to a punk aesthetic?

    Does punk have heavy bass lines? from tuned down guitars or actual bass guitars? Stand up Bass?

    Are the vocals or the instrumentation more foregrounded?

    If I didn't know what any of this:
    hardcore, 77, uk82, dis-core, powerviolence, poppunk

    meant, how would you describe it to me?

    IF none of that works for you, is punk partly their stage presence? Does a band need to set things on fire or commit other transgressive, subversive, or abject acts on stage to be considered punk?

    Are the Ramones or Black Flag Punk Rock to you? How about Danzig's DANZIG albums? Sepultura? Some of Sepultura? Soul Fly?

    I throw all these ideas out and ask all these questions because, quite aside from MSI in any sense, I like the idea that we can at least try to agree as to what constitutes punk. I like your persona on white chapel and I think we can communicate effectively, and this is an interesting question space to work in, and I hope others benefit from (and contribute to) the discussion.


    ASIDE:
    When I saw MSI in march this year I got slammed into during a particularly active mosh pit and had to use a cane on stairs and extended walks for damn near three months --When I saw Stolen Babies and SMB play a month or so ago, my neck was sore for a full week, thanks to thrashing about.

    TL;DR: concerts are hard work now!
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe.distort
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2012 edited
     (10898.15)
    no offense (really, im not trying to be mean or condescending) but i really dont want to even attempt this. instead i will leave you with an awesome video.
    here
  6.  (10898.16)
    @phill_sea:

    Hm, so since a number of early Goth bands were uncomfortable spin offs of punk (I'm thinking of Bauhaus and Alien Sex Fiend in particular) does that make early goth... Punk Punk? (Disclaimer: tongue planted firmly in cheek here)


    I think MSI's self-declared genre fits quite well. They aren't punk, they're Industrial Pussy Punk Rock. It's its own thing, but they're acknowledging their predecessors and influences. Seems reasonable to me. If anything is going to rankle you, shouldn't it be commercialized pop-punk rather than the continuously abrasive, offensive, and satirical MSI?
    • CommentAuthorFlxzr
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2012
     (10898.17)
    I had a friend who pretty much defined punk music as music played by people who couldn't play their instruments, so he discounted bands like The Clash. I suspect he'd just spent too long listening to the Sex Pistols.

    Here's my attempt at answering some of those questions:

    Major keys.
    4/4 or 2/4 time. (I've heard of punk songs in 3/4 or more esoteric signatures but I don't think I've ever heard any.)
    Tending to higher tempos, certainly not any very slow tempos. (I've no idea about actual bpm numbers) A punk ballad is just not ever going to happen. ;)
    Guitar, bass guitar, drums, sometimes synthesizers. The guitars are probably one of the most important elements. They're usually fairly buzzy: fuzz boxes and small combo amps rather than valve Marshall stacks. I remember hearing an interview with Joe Strummer (I think) and he said that no matter how far the Clash strayed from the punk aesthetic the one thing they always tried to retain was the punk guitars.

    There's no great technical virtuosity involved. You get guitar solos, but they're usually pretty simple and not very long. Although that doesn't necessarily mean a lack of skill, it's just directed elsewhere, like playing rhythm guitar very fast, and suchlike.

    There is a so-called "punk attitude", and there's the whole DIY thing, but that's mostly been bolted onto the musical aesthetic later, I think.

    Now to be a proper dick:

    The Ramones have to be punk. If you, like my friend, think the Clash aren't punk then I'll think you're a moron, If you think the Ramones aren't punk then I'll think you're an ignorant moron.

    I've never heard of Mindless Self Indulgence before, but I watched the youtube video above and while I can hear what is probably a punk influence, to me it's not punk. I don't know what it is, genre-wise...

    Also, didn't dubstep derive from Jamaican dancehall music? That's how it struck me when I first heard it...
    • CommentAuthorALE
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2012
     (10898.18)
    Damn, this takes me back. Great thing to see after a bit of a hiatus from the boards here. Used to watch them play live back when Vanessa was still with them. I think I still have a cutout of her face on a stick from when some friends and I were used as stand ins for an oooold promo by their original manager. Glad to see they're still at it and Jimmy is still a funny mofo.
    • CommentAuthorGordon
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2012
     (10898.19)
    Thanks for starting this thread. Had no idea about the Kickstarter project. I've now backed it and really hoping it hits the target - I need some new MSI, god damn it!
    •  
      CommentAuthorkperkins
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2012
     (10898.20)
    Jesus and Mary Chain
    The Rezillos
    The Misfits
    The Ramones
    The Clash
    The Queers
    Violent Femmes
    Black Flag
    Fugazi
    Minor Threat
    Sex Pistols
    PIL
    Dead Milkmen
    Descendants
    Very Metal
    MSI
    Rollins Band
    X

    All Punk, all different. Define Punk, punk. :D