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    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2012
    MSI is a band who I usually only see if they're playing with a band I enjoy, like Dog Fashion Disco or Tub Ring. Great live show and always alot of fun, but not a band I would ever buy an album from.
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2012 edited
    My cockles: they are warmed.

    Reverse order:
    Not exhaustive, but a wonderful place to start, TYVM

    You're welcome! Do spread the link and the love for the Kickstarter though, it doesn't seem to be ticking along as well as we'd want.

    Welcome back to the boards! (I thought about rick rolling you, but decided against it, as the that'd be too mean if you read this 1st thing in the morning) I have my FGWSSS cover signed by Vanessa (et al), too, from when they opened for . . . some riot grrrl band way back when, at The Shelter in Detroit. So fun.

    So we're clear, I'm referring to the "more pure" American dubstep genre, not the wider ranging Euro-Dub step.

    While it's possible (probable, frankly) dub takes some influence from Jamaican dancehall, if we're being completely honest it's got very many of its roots in down-tempo house and Drum'n'Bass (again, likely influenced by Jamaican dancehall) but the glitchy, more "mainstream" stuff like Skrillex or Pendulum can trace similar arcs, if not influences, from MSI.

    I digress, and the above is all IMO, YMMV.

    thank-you for setting some of our groundwork for figuring out the Punk musical genre. ! (metanote: An aside, I'm sure this conversation has been had before, but I like our take on it better, so won't bother looking into previous punk genre discussions)

    "Uncomfortable spinoffs". Love that phrase, and yeah, I would say that early Goth was definitely punk, or a punk offshoot so close it counts (IMO).

    I also agree that (hahahah) our discussion when it focused on MSI was off base, since they aren't calling themselves PUNK, they're calling themselves something else entirely, and that self-defined musical genre happens to include punk.

    it's cool, thanks for starting the discussion with me, and for the music link. I'm liking it.

    I miss Tub Ring so much. *snif* DFD/Polkadot Cadaver are pretty awesome live, too. I missed the apparent last show Crochet Cat Pause are doing for a while, it was yesterday at a house in Ann Arbor, MI, and that makes me sad, since they're the best live show I've seen this year (over MSI and PC, yes.)

    ETA: Even if you wouldn't buy their album, would you mind passing the kickstarter link around, incase your friends would?
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2012 edited
    i know i said id keep out, but its hard for me to, especially when i see so much of what is typical of this conversation (ie: the 'heres a bunch of old bands' post, the 'who cares what its called' post, the 'punk is whatever maaaan' post...all thats missing is the 'punk died in the 80s' post :) )
    i just had a realization while reading something else that , while it is kind of condescending, makes perfect sense to me:

    if you need an explanation of what punk music is, chances are pretty high you arent going to get it anyway or havent been to a punk show in a loooong time

    yes im a snob, but ive also devoted a lot of my time, money and soul to this shit. if you think im wrong, please feel free to tell me the last punk rock show you went to or your favorite punk/HC records of this year
    • CommentAuthorkperkins
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2012
    I find trying to define punk sort of like trying to catch eels bare handed. Kinda useless, and hard to do. Last show I went to was Authority Zero, about 5 years ago, but I live in the sticks, and 1) not to many punks tour up this way; 2) I'm 53, I look kinda conspicuous at a punk show nowadays, and I'm seriously not into the hardcore scene nowadays.
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2012 edited
    I KNOW i sound like a total one upper, but those guys are from my city...and i dont think im gonna see eye-to-eye with anyone in this thread

    oh well
    • CommentAuthorFlxzr
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2012
    One of the problems with trying to define musical genres is that without knowledge of music theory what makes it sound a certain way is almost impossible to describe. And even with music theory, nobody else will know what you're talking about.

    Punk's just a genre like any other, or a set of related genres, really, except that a lot of people seem to feel very strongly about how it's defined and what it is and isn't. I have to admit that I've never come across a group of metal-heads discussing whether a band is metal or if they've sold out or whatever. Maybe it happens, but most people don't seem to care very much as long as they like it.

    Maybe that's the definition of punk: if someone hasn't started a fight over it's classification it just ain't punk. ;)

    @phil_sea I really don't know much about dubstep, it's not my kind of thing, it was just that the little dancehall stuff I've heard was what came to mind when I first heard dubstep. So I bow to your superior knowledge.
  1.  (10898.7)
    @fixzr yup. I was actually trying to keep it to just the genre without even getting into the ethics and lifestyle because that's waaaaaaaaay to broad to define so we at least are on the same page.

    And about dubstep: its really just the natural progression from 90s tech step/hard step/jungle families. So yeah dance hall is in its DNA but there's decades of evolution there and I'm reasonably sure Industrial is more like a cousin than a forefather
  2.  (10898.8)

    Man, I'm sorry, but I have to say, you sound exactly like hardcore comic nerds and gamers, the type of people who of late have decided that they are the sole arbiters of who get to use the word Geek. I mean, what is the material benefit of being able to define "Punk" so rigorously? I can't see a solid argument for this question's utility--critical, social, economical, or otherwise--beyond its utility in making you a gatekeeper for what true punk is.

    Sorry to be so prickly about this, but these kind of "Only the true believers can understand, so I'm not going to bother to explain myself" answers just strike me as really unproductive.


    I wonder how many people make that connection between goth and punk, though. Like, they still sort of exist commercially as sibling genres alongside metal and some of the weirder techno sects, but I feel like the early goth bands haven't lived on in the quasi-legendary way that punk bands like the Misfits or the Clash have. Bauhaus, I guess, would be the big exception there, of course.


    Really? I've actually seen more genre infighting in metal than any other genre I can think of. (And I think metal is in some kind of competition with techno and electronica over who can invent the most overly specific sub-sub-subgenres.)

    Granted, this could just mean that my local culture (the backwaters of Pennsylvania, vaguely in between New York and Philadelphia) really sucks, or that my metalhead friends are particularly angry at each other...
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2012 edited
    I specifically said I'm just talking about genre (not any of the other stuff)and,to continue sounding like myself, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. Sorry I guess? I'm not trying to say who's'pure'or'true underground' or some nonsense but rather that there are actual stylistic parameters and as someone who has a knowledge base of nearly two decades, I was trying to speak on behalf of that.

    Really, I know I'm wasting my time here but I can't help myself. I know I listen to more punk and HC than most people and I am well versed in the subject. I also know its off putting but yet I keep getting sucked in.

    TL,DR imagine if I said that The Melvin were a pop group or you could take me up on my last statement to tell me what YOUR favorite punk records of 2012 are. Either way:whatever. I think my time here is drawing to a close regardless....Also I HAVE explained this many times on WC before so don't act like I'm trying to keep Punk Secrets

    There's a proper usage for words. A cactus isn't a isn't a taco. Stuff that's loud isn't automatically punk etc etc
  3.  (10898.10)
    ...But if you can't offer a rigorous definition that can be argued back and forth, what's the point of arguing the definition at all?

    You knowing something does nothing for me unless you can articulate what you know in a way that I can use. And if you've explained it many times before, you should be able to explain it easily, comprehensibly, and succinctly in this thread now, possibly by simply copying and pasting your previous arguments.
  4.  (10898.11)
    I know I'm gonna get accused of a rage quit or some other ridiculousness, but, yeah I don't want to do this

    To totally hijack this thread: I don't like the way WC has been for months and that really falls on me for continuing to come here. I think the overall tone of this subject is kind of the last straw for me. People want to fight about something I KNOW I am more well versed in and that Warren himself has commended me for? I'm not really interested. You want me to copy and paste? Use the search function.

    I appreciate the passion some of you have given to a genre that I am well aware you don't participate in for whatever sake of argument can be gleaned, but I'm kind of just done. My nose is healing from dancing to Converge last week. I spit my own blood doing something I love;that's not gonna change. I may have been standoffish, but I gave every opportunity for people to answer MY questions-only one person did. WC used to be different, but most of the people who made it fun have either left or are just now lurkers. I may still lurk as well to see if people want to talk comics, but eh, I'm finished with this. It was fun but lately it's not.

    I'm sorry that I somehow made a subject I love and have a deep knowledge of into something to vaguely internet fight about. I will just have to live with a bunch of great records and keep going to shows. You guys can keep arguing and nitpicking about a genre you mostly don't listen to.

    To the people that DO care? I appreciate all of the things I learned here. I've made some friends and that's been cool. I am not leaving because of this discussion, but more what it represents. Have fun. Also if you want to respond in anger I still leave you w my last questions: what's the last punk show you went to and what are your favorite records from this year? If you don't have current answers, I think you know whether I was being a dick or whether I was just passionate about something that has changed my life.

    Something I've wanted to say for months but have bit my tongue? This Site Should've Died When Warren Left.

  5.  (10898.12)
    Oldhat:I love kittens. Anyone who wants to say anything to me? You've got my twitter or my direct email
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2012 edited
    EDIT: Damn it, sending an e-mail
    • CommentAuthorAllenW
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2012
    On a different subject....
    Thanks for posting this thread, I had no clue there was a new album coming out or that I could get it for $5! So going to donate, I've been meaning to see them live for a long time but something ALWAYS pops up when they come to town for the last 10 or so years... I have seen nearly every other band on my list (especially back when I went to a show every other week) but never MSI, they remained elusive and their arrival always meant my life got interesting. So yes, donation!
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2012

    Don't let that last contribution fool you, especially if you've seen Joe basically actually saying that very same thing for months now. He was really one of the good guys.
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2012
    They are well worth seeing live, even now they've "Made it Big" as it were. Startlingly full of energy and schtick!
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2012
    @AllenW MSI was the first band I ever saw since I came to NYC and I've seen probably close to 10 shows by now. Each was amazing! The way they sound live vs recorded is so different and fantastic and ugh, I want to go body check some brightly coloured children now while singing at the top of my lungs.
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2012
    from the update emails . . .

    Here is a sneak peek at some photos from the book "MSI - Everything But The Show". Lots more where these came from as well as stories from the band.

    Remember, when we hit 100k in funding we will release a full length demo from the new album. You can pledge now and you will not be charged until 12/24, so plenty of time to save up.

    • CommentAuthorkperkins
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2012 edited

    Reminder: Don't use the short code when trying to embed a video.

    You're fucking welcome.
    • CommentTimeDec 6th 2012
    There's the "Good Job Fans" demo release

    Wooot: New MSI The day before my birthday. And then, also, a hooded sweatshirt sometime, hopefully shortly, thereafter.

    I've been watching this kickstarter like a hawk, with rising tension, so I'm glad I don't have to sweat out the next few weeks cursing my fellow fans for not donating as much.

    Also, Grant Morrison and his wife are in the initial kickstarter video. I'm never too surprised to see strange bedfellows, but I especially liked that one, once it was pointed out to me.