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  1.  (10932.1)
    So, let's discuss the Fake Nerd Girls thing.

    This is still Whitechapel, so no being an arsehole, eh?
    • CommentAuthorroadscum
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2012
     (10932.2)
    Strange though it may sound, one tried to follow me on twitter. I shooed it away and it hasn't bothered me again.
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      CommentAuthorjohnjones
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2012
     (10932.3)
    I can sort of see both sides of the situation. The Nerds are concerned that since the pendulum of pop-culture has swung toward comics/superheroes/games etc that the Pretty People are going to crowd them out of their niche, while still refusing to have sex with them. If you're a girl and you like that cute guy in the glasses with the fit body, nice cologne, cool car and designer clothes who sometimes reads Jim Butcher novels, that does not mean you like nerds. If you are a girl who wears glasses and is otherwise a supermodel, you're also probably not a nerd.

    But that's okay, because being a nerd really isn't all that great.

    See, to me, the defining characteristic of nerd-dom isn't glasses or acne or computers or comic books. It's obsession. Further, it's obsession that deviates from the so-called norm of human society. If a guy gives over every waking moment to making money and spending it on hot clothes, cars and girls, we don't call him a nerd. We call him a success. Sure, he's probably a mentally unbalanced spiritual wreck, but he's considered someone to admire, even emulate.

    Not so much the nerd. The nerd's obsession is with things that society as a whole values relatively little. A non-nerd might go see the Avengers or The Dark Knight Rises or The Amazing Spider Man and enjoy them. Or not enjoy them. Ultimately, though, their interest in these movie will be relatively shallow. For a nerd, though, the experience is deeper. This is a person who may have devoted time and money to the comics on which these movies are based, possibly more time and money than he can truly afford. That gives a nerd a sense of investment in, even ownership of, those comics. Obsession makes things feel keener and more personal. And that creates unbalance, symptoms of which include an argumentative nature and poor hygiene.

    Personally, I welcome the advent of "Fake" Nerd Girls to a degree. They may well provide the "bait" to lure nerds out of the mancave and into a more balanced relationship with the world at large. And perhaps even some of the hotter girls in that world.
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      CommentAuthordorkmuffin
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2012
     (10932.4)
    Has anybody else noticed a tendency to dismiss people who like to exercise as not being nerds? I remember encountering a lot of nerds who were very proud of the fact that they never exercised, and who treated people who did as freakish and weird. The same could be said for some grooming habits: if you're a girl and you like to put effort into your appearance, via exercise or makeup or fashion, you're "not a nerd" because you care one iota about your appearance.
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      CommentAuthoroldhat
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2012
     (10932.5)
    Don't see the point of a discussion about this, as I feel it's stupid as hell.
    •  
      CommentAuthoroldhat
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2012
     (10932.6)
    Don't see the point of a discussion about this, as I feel it's stupid as hell.
    •  
      CommentAuthoroldhat
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2012
     (10932.7)
    Don't see the point of a discussion about this, as I feel it's stupid as hell.
    •  
      CommentAuthordorkmuffin
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2012 edited
     (10932.8)
    Don't delete @Oldhat's reposts. I kind of love that it happened five times and think that it's ... pretty valid. It's completely ridiculous that this is even a discussion.

    Edited to add:

    This won't make me stop buying Tony Harris comics. But that's because I don't pay to read what he has to say, I pay because I like his art style, and he's often paired with really good writers.
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      CommentAuthordorkmuffin
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2012
     (10932.9)
    *Four times. NOOOOOOO. THEY'RE DISAPPEARING.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMagnulus
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2012 edited
     (10932.10)
    So is this a specific Thing or just the general concept of girls wearing the badge of nerdery without being True Nerds, like punk girls who wear Sex Pistols t-shirts having never ventured further in punk-land than Blink 182?

    It's nothing new. Any subculture or counterculture that reached a certain level of awareness will attract fashionistas and people who don't really care. Geek Chic is a Thing now. Big Bang Theory is huge. Some girls might be trying to cash in on teenaged nerds being hungry for hot girls who they think has something in common with them. Some girls might just be trying to find out where they belong in a time of their lives where they - and everyone else - is obsessed with their looks.

    I think it's asshattery the way a lot of girls are being bullied just for trying to take part in a subculture they obviously find appealing for some reason. When I was 20, I'd aggressively defend my goth/ punk/ etc friends' right to be different, to make their own choices and be respected as people no matter what they look like. However, I'd instantly dismiss guys in pink shirts with trendy hair cuts and girls in Miss Sixty jeans, or people who listened to Britney Spears. How was I in any way a better person than those who dismissed and jeered at my friends?

    I'm not sure exactly where that example was going, but I will say this: Let's be a little less protective of "our turf" and a little more inclusive. I'm not saying give them any more attention than you would anyone else, but let's not discredit people just because they're conventionally attractive, wear a lot of make up and don't know the name of Jayne Cobb's gun.

    EDIT:
    Wow, a lot happened while I was typing that up.

    JohnJones, you make a lot of good points. Nerds care about things most others don't give a shit about, and I imagine that's where a lot of that protectiveness comes from. We care! You don't care! Don't pretend you care when you don't! While I can see the point in that, it's dangerous to make assumptions about how much people care based on what they look like. I've been in a lot of situations where I wished I hadn't underestimated someone, and also in situations where I was glad I didn't.

    Dorkmuffin: Agreed on the exercise thing. The people who do try to tell me nerds don't exercise are quickly given a link to Fitocracy, however. It's a website built around the idea that exercise is PERFECT for gamers and nerds. You can be a fitness nerd just as much as you can be a Star Wars nerd in my opinion.

    And yes. I find the discussion to be a bit perplexing.
    • CommentAuthorArgos
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2012
     (10932.11)
    ^^Yes, but the specific rant that started this argument was targeted at girls who wore sexy cosplays at Comic Cons without being *real* geeks.

    Look, on the one hand, I get it. It sucks when you've spent your whole life as a geek and then suddenly someone else comes by and gets more attention than you do just because they're more attractive. Part of the whole having to earn you cred thing.

    That being said, why are only females being targeted? It's not like there aren't dudes who only watch the Marvel movies without having spent their childhood reading the comics. And, as Dorkmuffin mention, why is it that the only way to prove your geek cred is by ignoring your grooming habits? I know plenty of people who are fashionistas but are genuine geeks.

    And even if they aren't, so what? Edgar had a friend who was really into sewing, and she took inspiration from comics to make cosplays to show off her sewing skills. Cosplay is an art unto itself, why aren't girls allowed to take inspiration from comic characters for that?

    Like I said, I get how much it sucks when someone who somehow has less cred comes along and gets more attention than you, but on the other, instead of shaming them, why not try educating them and teaching them more about whatever character it is you're so passionate about?

    As a female who grew up playing video games and reading comics when I could afford to buy them, I really hate it when I have to spend more energy proving myself than a male counterpart does *just* because i'm female. I mean really, when I was in high school, we were already in the 2000's and I still had to deal with people going "Omg, you're a girl and you play games???" Uh, yeah, yes I am and yes I do.
    • CommentAuthorWood
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2012
     (10932.12)
    Why do people care about "attention" or "cred" ?

    People over 14 years old, I mean ?
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      CommentAuthoroldhat
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2012
     (10932.13)
    Sorry for the repeats. On a crappy phone that does that.

    I don't recall getting a booklet filled with rules and regulations when I developed my interests, and I'm pretty sure such a thing doesn't exist. If you're putting hate on someone for entering a group with no requirements to enter because they don't have as much XP as you or aren't interested in a subject the same way you are, you are a fucking idiot. The presence of such a person, male OR female doesn't physically harm anyone so there's no reason this discussion should take fucking place.
  2.  (10932.14)
    I don't understand how other people pretending to be into whatever you're into affect your own enjoyment.
  3.  (10932.15)
    An attractive person that has a passing interest in something gets more attention than the 'nerd' that won't stop talking about it?
    Really?
    </sarcasm>

    I don't think that being a nerd is what's actually popular... or, at least, not a 'nerd' as people used the term 5+ years ago. Being a little awkward and not looking like a big muscle guy is what the word nerd seems to mean now-a-days. (For this post I'll use the older meaning of the word nerd). Someone going to a comic convention doesn't mean they're obsessed with comics, toys, & Pokemon, someone dressing up as a character doesn't mean that comics & cartoon shows are things they talk about ad nauseam. I find the people that are bitching about people pretending to be nerds are pissy mostly because there's guys that are dressing kind of similar to them and girls are falling for the good looking 'cool' nerd instead.
    If anyone reading this is one of those guys pouting 'cause he can't get the girl, here's a tip for you: Express interest in other things as well and maybe tone down how often you talk about your obsessions.

    Am I a nerd? No. I wear glasses because my vision requires it, I read comics, I go to most of the conventions around town, hell, I worked in a Star Trek store for years back in the mid-90's. If you were to try to talk to me about most comics I wouldn't really know what you're talking about and lose interest pretty quickly, try to talk to me about Star Trek, Star Wars, Firefly, etc, etc, etc, and I'll know what you mean but I won't be much of a conversationalist about them, not because I don't know, but because I don't care. Does that mean that I'm pretending to be a nerd? No. It means that I have interests that a lot of nerds have but I can talk to people about other things (and typically prefer to.)


    That all being said, I'm with the other people wondering why this is being talked about... I really can't see someone coming on here and complaining about 'fake' nerds... At least, I would hope we're all grown up enough to not get bent out of shape over something so ridiculous.
  4.  (10932.16)
    One night I was hanging out with a girl. We were getting to know each other, and she mentioned that her boyfriend had made a Star Wars reference the previous day, and then immediately told her that she "probably wouldn't understand that, since it's a pretty obscure Star Wars thing." She pointed out to him that she was actually quite a big Star Wars nerd, and knew exactly what he was talking about.

    For some reason or another, my first instinct was to test her on that claim. I said "So you think you've got the Star Wars stuff down huh?" She could tell that I was about to star quizzing her, and tensed up noticeably. When I noticed that, all at once I realized what a douche bag thing that would be to do. That every nerdy dude she had ever met probably felt like he was some kind of "gatekeeper" who she was expected to prove herself to. Instead I just said "cool," and she was clearly relieved.

    After that I've come to understand that I really don't have the right to tell anyone if they are a "real" version of something or not, no matter how much I care about whatever that may be. I believe that people who are always going on about "fake" nerd girls, don't have issues with "nerd culture" or whatever. Instead they have issues with women, and are trying to single them out and exclude them.
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      CommentAuthorGreasemonkey
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2012 edited
     (10932.17)
    When I were a lad, SF and comic conventions were sad affairs held at the community centre, and the special guest was usually your local newsagent (or William Shatner if you were really unlucky). Mainstream comics could be purchased at the newsagency, but if you wanted Zap or the Freak Brothers or Heavy Metal, you had to send away to a mail order company or get your older siblings to buy it for you at the head shop. There was no internet, this being the 1970's, so there was no Comics Community as it exists now. There was a circle of nerd friends who played D&D and read comics, or if your town really sucked you were on your own.

    Now we have million-dollar comicfests, there are multi-storey comic barns where we can buy every graphic novel ever published, there's a huge international community online where we can talk shit and post our art and writing and music, and someone's bitching because girls want to play too. Jesus.
  5.  (10932.18)
    I find it a bit telling that it's Fake Nerd Girls and not Fake Nerds or Fake Nerd Boys. And honestly, once you stick that gender signifier there, any complaining about fake vs not-fake is a load of bull. It's blatant sexism, and do I really need to say more?

    And all those people complaining about fake nerds... you know how annoying "hipsters" supposedly are? You guys are worse.
  6.  (10932.19)
    I go to conventions and take pictures, mostly of cosplayers. It used to be that booth babes (hired models) would hang around booths to draw people in. I don't see that so much anymore, but instead they are dressed up in costumes walking around the floor posing for pictures to promote whatever their being paid to promote. I see this more in San Diego then anywhere else. So it's a little annoying when you take a pic and she hands you her card after, hoping you'll play a part in the marketing campaign. I'm there to cover the convention and the people there, not to help advertise products. This isn't only a female thing, I occasionally see a guy dressed up as a character he's trying to sell for toys/comics/etc. too.

    But it's a minor annoyance at best and not something to get worked up about. A rude asshole pushing you because the line isn't moving to their speed is a much bigger annoyance.
  7.  (10932.20)
    @Jamie Coville - yeah, fake sponsored cosplayers are a fleabite. Nerd culture will develop new social conventions to deal with them, and move on.

This discussion has been inactive for longer than 5 days, and doesn't want to be resurrected.