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    • CommentAuthorArgos
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2013
     (11106.1)
    he really didn't have people skills.


    Truer words could not be spoken. This is the same guy who refuses to fix a bug in Fez 1 bc he doesn't want to have to pay microsoft the fee for it :/

    re: LA Noire - yeah, I've been noticing he really is an unhinged dick. He's quick to yell at people every time i doubt people.
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      CommentAuthorMorac
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2013
     (11106.2)
    @Argos: Regarding the Fez bug: A) the fee for patching was $40,000 (which is not the sort of cash indie's can readily afford) and B) Microsoft has since dropped the fee, and Fez has been patched.
  1.  (11106.3)
    This is the same guy who refuses to fix a bug in Fez 1 bc he doesn't want to have to pay microsoft the fee for it :/
    To be fair, the fee in question is/was ~$10,000. And MS is super dickish about title updates for XBLA games.
    • CommentAuthorArgos
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2013 edited
     (11106.4)
    :O I had not been updated on that. Huzzah! Also thanks for the correction, I had heard about that second hand from someone else, and while I knew the patch was expensive, I had no idea it was that expensive. My bad for not researching that one.
    • CommentAuthorFlabyo
    • CommentTimeJul 28th 2013
     (11106.5)
    First title update for any title is free, second and subsequent used to have to be paid for. The idea being you should only need to patch once and you should be VERY careful about it, because the aim was to prevent PC and PS3 style 'rolling updates' where the game gets a new update every other day sometimes. The mechanism is different on 360 too, on PS3 the patches are cumulative, so when you put in the game you have to download, one at a time, every patch that's ever been done for it. On 360 the only patch you're allowed to keep live is one that takes it form the base unpatched game to the current version.

    Basically, the accusation was that Phil rushed his first patch out the door and it broke things, and then he couldn't afford the second patch to fix what he broke. It's a tough one for indies for sure, and I'm glad they've relaxed the policy, but he's not completely blameless in that.

    It is very clear he doesn't deal well with the public. My advice to him would be to hire a PR to represent him, and back the hell away from social media. He clearly loves making games (well, that's not so clearcut if you've seen 'indie game the movie' but still...) and he's surely done well enough now that he can just avoid the backchat and let someone else deal. It's how most of the people running the big studios work (Peter Molyneux, David Jaffe, Cliffy B etc...). As much as those guys all seem to have really large online presence, I don't think they read very much of what people actually tweet at them...
  2.  (11106.6)
    Oh indeed, I so agree with the "realize you should never open your mouth in public ever and hire PR" with Fish. It's incredibly how clueless about PR people in the creative industries can be. Especially if and when they are "self-made men", having clawed their way up from obscurity into some kind of status. I can understand the need to keep control of all things about your business and to micromanage everything, but please god try some introspection and recognize the fields you are not good at, and hire people to do it.

    ...I just may have commented on a bit wider scope here...
  3.  (11106.7)
    Yeah, that Fish guy is a dick. He's the one who said that all Japanese games suck, about one year ago or so. And he also seems to have been almost exploiting people who worked with him.

    Anyway, people in the games industry do not really like people like him. He can go, we won't miss him.
  4.  (11106.8)
    Speak for yourself. He made good games and my job as a game player isn't to be bestest friends with the creator.

    As for the Japanese game thing, read this.
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      CommentAuthorMorac
    • CommentTimeJul 28th 2013
     (11106.9)
    I think part of the reason Fish comes off as terrible at PR is because news sites get a lot of hits whenever they post something about Fish saying something stupid. Note that that doesn't mean that Fish was actually being unreasonable. And when this is the bulk of your media interactions for years on end, you can kinda see why someone would be fed up.
  5.  (11106.10)
    This is my article on the entire thing. It's the only piece I've ever done on Phil Fish or Fez, and sadly I don't see myself writing another. I'd love to have been able to review Fez II.
    • CommentAuthorArgos
    • CommentTimeJul 28th 2013
     (11106.11)
    It takes the phenomenal contemptibility of an Orson Scott Card to make me decide that I’d rather have nothing to do with anything that person makes. A creator’s job is to make interesting things, and if the person making things happens to be likable that’s a bonus. Phil Fish had issues but Fez was wonderful, so there was no problem enjoying the game.


    That's pretty much how i feel about it. Yes, he's a dick, but he's not supporting nasty causes either. And Fez is one of my favorite recent games, I just loved that little world.
  6.  (11106.12)
    Yeah, for me it takes a pretty massive amounts of dickheadedness alone for me to be really put off by someone's art - OSC is of course actively evil, so he's in a totally other category here. Frank Miller pulled it off to a degree that I don't want anything to do with his new stuff, Scott Adams did it like a boss, but yeah - Fish's tantrums, in the end, didn't really come close to it after the first impression and after I read more about the guy.
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      CommentAuthorMorac
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2013
     (11106.13)
    A bit of food for thought: if this was the public reaction to my work, I might just quit too. http://polytroncorporation.com/fez-ii-cancelled#comments
    • CommentAuthorFlabyo
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2013
     (11106.14)
    The thing is, the net is full of people like that, and you simply can't allow it to stop you doing things online or you will never do anything at all.

    Yes, it's appalling that it happens. Yes, we should speak out against it. But let it stop us do what we want to do? No. Never.

    Here's another example of the kind of people we're talking about, in this case these are tweets aimed at the call of duty twitter account
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      CommentAuthorVornaskotti
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2013 edited
     (11106.15)
    Yeah. There is an unfortunate contingent of utterly horrible cunts in the gamer community, and unfortunately in situations like this (or, when you work as a games journalist), those people tend to be the ones you see nine times out of then that you get contacted. It is a bloody tough thing to handle them and to let their opinions slide off your back like the snot rolls off their upper lip, but that's just an unfortunate skill one needs to cultivate. And if that just doesn't fly, get someone else to act as the shit shield.

    My experience is of course not on par with Fish's or the CoD-creators, thank bob, but I have been on the receiving end of a shithose from the "gamer community" and a subset of the geek community as part of some jobs I've done. I'm not the thin-skinnest guy out there, but yeah, it did start seeping in through the cracks, especially when some pinpricks started mentioning me by name. Oftentimes I just wanted to strangle the entitled little shits and explode in the vein of mr. Fish here. I coped by turning it into a game of "how politely condescendingly can I reply so that the other guy actually apologises and changes his mind". Worked on one job, not the other.

    Got to say, dealing with that crowd was one of the few reasons I got out of games and tech journalism - not the main reason, but definitely one of them. Figured out that if I want to listen to 15-years calling me a fag, I can go hang around high school smoking spots. The tolerance to that short of shit really depends also on how stressed you are yourself and how much of a callous have you managed to form for that sort of stuff. Currently, like I give a fuck anymore, I just filter that stuff out as the whining of (mental) kids that it is.
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      CommentAuthorD.J.
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2013
     (11106.16)
    Is it bad that I found those Call of Duty tweets hilarious? As worried as I am that his entire family is gonna get rape-cancer death.

    UR A FUKIN IDIOT!! I FUKIN HOPE I DIE OF A TESTICULAR CANCER!!

    — Dex7eritehh
  7.  (11106.17)
    @D.J.

    Heh sure - you can just see how they wave their little fists in the air in frustration, and stomp their stubby little feet in impotent rage! :)
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      CommentAuthorVornaskotti
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2013 edited
     (11106.18)
    Okay, Shadowrun Returns is fucking awesome. I'm basically rolling around in teenage role-playing nostalgia caked in turn based RPG awesomeness. It's done right!
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      CommentAuthorchiaslut
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2013
     (11106.19)
    @Vorn - I'm enjoying Shadowrun Returns as well. I've always loved that world. I'm a total sucker for the idea of magic coming back to the world in a dystopian future. The game, to me, feels very ... adequate ... so far. Not bad in the slightest and not super awesome, just very solid. I'm really looking forward to seeing what people do with the ability to create their own stories.
    • CommentAuthorArgos
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2013
     (11106.20)
    Edgar and I just started Shadowrun Returns. We like it so far!