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  1.  (11148.1)
    Gosh.

    Its got to always be about the communication. Every single relationship in life, regardless as to whether it ends up in a sexual situation or not, is about communication. If there isn't any, then its pretty much doomed. It could carry on for a long long time in that state, but its doomed.

    To my mind, not being willing to communicate on pretty fundamental aspects of what is between you, is a pretty clear demonstation that there is little respect or regard there. I'm been in that situation, where you love someone to bits, fancy them ridiculously, but the lack of regard ultimatlely killed stuff, stone dead.

    There is a general 'lack of care' in my ... (I hestitate to use the term, but its the best I have) primary partnership, but its not a lack of regard. Its a lack of thought, yup, and I'll take part of the blame for that, for forgetting that DP needs a ridiculous level of instruction at times, just to mean that I don't die... you know what, we still communicate about that, ok its not 'great', but its not drama.

    In this household, and in my friendships generally... me being who and what I am, indeed DP likewise, means that there isn't drama. There is no need for it, ever. It doesn't happen, really, it just doesn't. It was pretty much damn constant over *everything* when we were living monogamously, life was split out and compartmentalised, it made us lazy and communication and discussion fell by the wayside; as is often the encouraged 'norm' if you listen to the societally sanctioned ways of behaving.
    • CommentAuthorOddcult
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     (11148.2)
    You know when you read a good book and want to talk about it with someone?
    Or see a good movie or have a good idea or meet a nice person or eat a good meal?
    And you want to tell the people that you like that you had a nice experience because you're excited about this thing in your life that maybe you'll do again


    Well, no

    Discussing a piece of art objectively is one thing. Talking about the subjective experience of a personal interaction isn't like that at all. I don't really want to hear about anyone else's, or talk about my own with anyone that wasn't involved.

    Telling a story about it, sure, maybe, but if you're saying you utterly, utterly have to tell someone that has feelings for you, just how great the head you got the other night from someone else was, then, well, no. I've got no empathy with that in the slightest and have a fairly visceral reaction against it.
  2.  (11148.3)
    @BirdsUseStars, true. It's not for the faint of heart. Like many supremely worthwhile things. Coincidentally or not.

    If you're the type of person who sees other people screw up and doesn't think 'Well, I'll be sure to try it differently,' this thread probably isn't where you belong. Shutting out an entire mode of relating to people based on the anecdotal evidence of failure ... well, shouldn't you just be single for the rest of your life? Relationship failure is everywhere.


    Yeah, definitely. Like, relationships end with drama constantly, so if you seem more drama in poly relationships, it's not because poly people love drama, it's just because that happens sometimes, and when you have more people you're going to be more likely to see more conflicts.
    •  
      CommentAuthorallana
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     (11148.4)
    haha, you think you can talk about art 'objectively'
    •  
      CommentAuthorallana
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     (11148.5)
    Okay but the point was to illustrate that your visceral reaction and mine are not the same. The empathy is a thing you should probably work on. You asked 'what kind of person does that' and I told you. You're welcome?
    • CommentAuthorOddcult
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     (11148.6)
    Yeah, we're not gonna find common ground here.
  3.  (11148.7)
    I wonder if in part it is the 'ability' to feel/experience compersion? I dont' limit that to being something purely present in polyamory, but I wonder that if you are not someone who 'gets' that, then you are less likely to want to know as you won't get a kick out of, or a nice warm glow, out of knowing...?
    • CommentAuthorArgos
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     (11148.8)
    Discussing a piece of art objectively is one thing. Talking about the subjective experience of a personal interaction isn't like that at all.


    I'm just gonna pop in here and say that when I talk about books or movies or whatever I enjoyed, I'm usually talking about my subjective enjoyment of them. Sure, art can be talked about in objective terms, but usually when I'm telling Edgar about a good comic I just read, it's subjective, because hey, sometimes he doesn't like the art I like, and vice versa.

    That said, Edgar and I have both done poly in the past and are mono with each other. Mostly just because yes, sometimes there is more drama with poly relationships because it's only natural that as the number of people increases, so does the drama, but I'll be damned if I haven't seen some dramatic as fuck mono couplings. Also we're both the type of people who just really enjoy dedicating our time and efforts to as few people as possible, so while we're open to going poly in the future, it''s never come up yet because we quite frankly just don't feel like allocating our resources to multiple people - that shit can be exhausting. I personally am the type of person who really only needs a couple people in my life. More is nice, always, but as far as really close friends I spend time with on a regular basis, there's only a few of those. I feel fulfilled with one person.

    Also, and I hate to admit this, but I've found I'm the type of person who does really well doing poly when I'm mostly just casually dating and not super in love with someone. I'm fine dating people with primaries, married people, what have you, but once I find someone I want to be my primary, I get all weird about it. I don't know if it just boils down to jealousy, or if it goes with the above, and it's that once I get attached on that level my resources just kind of naturally funnel all into one direction, and it feels sucky to now have them all be funneled back. Whatever it is, it's there, so I will admit that my poly experience is limited to casual relationships.
    •  
      CommentAuthorallana
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     (11148.9)
    Isn't compersion essentially the same sort of feeling of selflessness that gets employed in romantic stories all the time: 'I wish I could be with you but I love you so much I just want you to be happy, even if that means you're with someone else?' aka unconditional love? Just that in this case the poly bit makes it not-heart-breaking?
    •  
      CommentAuthoroldhat
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     (11148.10)
    Even then, Oddcult, no one is trying to prove anything or convert to you. It's not our job to do that.

    You wonder who could do this and find happiness? They're writing in this thread and they are incredibly happy. If you want further understanding, I suggest keeping an eye on the thread and just read people's accounts. If you still need understanding, take out a book at the library or look online (someone mind posting suggested resources? That would be great for all, I think).
    •  
      CommentAuthoroldhat
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     (11148.11)
    Tl;dr: the world don't move to the beat of just one drum, what might be right for you, might not be right for some.
    • CommentAuthorOddcult
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     (11148.12)
    Or maybe a better response would be 'why would I want or need to empathise with that?'

    I mean, I can't stand hearing about what a great time people had when they were on holiday, unless there was an actually interesting story in there too. Why would I want to hear about anyone's sex stuff, just based on how they felt about it, if I had feelings for them, unless there was an actually interesting story involved?

    Woo! France was wonderful!

    Really? Did anything go horribly wrong? Was it notable for any reason other than whats to be expected? No? Don't care then. Leave me alone.

    You had some sex? That made you feel great? It was awesome. Anything weird about it or genuinely funny? No? But it was physically pleasurable and you held each other afterwards and it was sweet too? Woopy do. Wait. No. Woopy don't wanna know.
    •  
      CommentAuthoroldhat
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013 edited
     (11148.13)
    Then maybe...don't bother clicking on the link to the damn thread and bother reading?

    No one is forcing you to take part in this and if someone your involved with wants to be open and wants to discuss it and you don't then, follow me here, it's a poor fit. Period.

    Strike 2.

    Am getting a headache with this thread now. I was worried about that, too.
  4.  (11148.14)
    Yes, #allana I think so. maybe more 'unconditional like' as a base point. I'm not sure if it comes from selflessness, from my point of view it feels pretty damn, um, self serving... 'heck I have good taste', as much as any thus less prosaic...
    • CommentAuthorOddcult
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     (11148.15)
    You wonder who could do this and find happiness?


    You're possibly misunderstanding me.

    I'm wondering how everyone involved manages to find and keep happiness. I'm also not arguing for monogamy, I'm saying that the insistence on 'communication' is not the great thing it's presented as, and that insistence on removing people's privacy is problematic.

    Okay - what if you're seeing someone and do have an agreement to be open and talk about everything, but the person they're seeing too doesn't want you to hear every detail? Should you tell them they can't see that person if they won't give you a blow by blow account? Whose 'rights' and boundaries should be respected there?
    •  
      CommentAuthorallana
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     (11148.16)
    Right? the 'heck I have good taste' thing is so crazy. I love it when people want to date my boyfriend. Compliments for everyone!
    •  
      CommentAuthorglukkake
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     (11148.17)
    @Oddcult But me, as a person who is actively living in this lifestyle, is saying that I'm doing that because it's what works for me. That's all. I'm not trying to change your mind about anything except "please don't call me someone who is actively seeking drama in their life". Because in keeping my kind of honesty with my kind of partners, it lessens the drama in our life.

    If you want anecdotal data, why, I already discussed this earlier up in the thread on why I do this with my current partner:

    he's more comfortable if I just tell him I can't see him that evening because I'm seeing someone else - one time I was very intentionally vague and he was anxious all night that I was mad at him/hated him for some reason I wouldn't tell him.


    And I have plenty of other reasons that are intimate to my partners and myself, so they're not really open to discussion on a public forum. Besides which, it is again, anecdotal data from a few people. If it's not enough that you, as someone who has admitted that you're making judgements from the outside, don't want to believe me, someone with the experience to say that your judgements are wrong, then I don't know what you need to change your mind?

    Don't answer that, because I'm not going to actively work on it anyways.
    • CommentAuthorOddcult
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     (11148.18)
    Strike 2


    Are you saying you're giving me some kind of warning in an official capacity?

    If so, can you please be clear about that, and also how many 'strikes' there are, as I think that's something relating to a sport I'm not familiar with.

    Then maybe...don't bother clicking on the link to the damn thread and bother reading?


    Are you now saying that because I don't relate to certain aspects of something, I don't have any right to participate in discussions about it? Because you seem to be coming close to the sort of 'shaming' that others have already mentioned earlier as issues.
  5.  (11148.19)
    Communication doesn't remove privacy. Indeed it enables you to enhance it. Because saying no, and why isn't possible unless you can generally communicate either.

    And sharing doesn't ness. mean every detail. I'm pretty sure no one here has said that its every detail. Nope, I can't think that I've ever shared specific detail... many wouldn't, unless you wished to say and hear, from one relationship to another in a serially monogamous situation, so why assume that that is what 'telling' is in all non-monogamous situations.

    The only things I would say there is a duty to share, is where there is a transfer risk. And that's most definitely about the respect, regard and desire for the other person, for thinking of them when you plan to go down a sexual route.
    •  
      CommentAuthorallana
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     (11148.20)
    I'll actually answer that, Oddcult, even though it's clear you're not here to learn. Other people can benefit from this regardless.

    One, we are smart people. We have smart conversations. The lurid details might be there, but they are part of better and greater narratives about learning about people - and by extension the things that those people know. When my partner comes home enthusing about a great date it's about having a great conversation as much as great chemistry. I'm sorry that doesn't come across explicitly, but I have the sneaking suspicion you don't have smart people sharing insights about modes of speaking or thinking in your regular vicinity.

    Two, often that privacy/disclosure stuff gets negotiated as deal-breaker or not. It's a thing that varies from person to person. Like lots of other things. That take communication to establish. In advance of them becoming a problem. You see where I'm going with this? You can have your don't-ask-don't-tell, and I can have my full-disclosure and neither of us need to act like the other is doing something impossible.

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