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  1.  (11404.81)
    So you posted a shouty abusive screed, then realised you hadn't actually read the story you were being shouty and abusive about, came back here to edit your post - to mention that you hadn't, in fact, read the story - but decided to leave the shouty abusive screed in place anyway?

    Away and shite, yeh.
    • CommentAuthorNo Fear
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2014
     (11404.82)
    Pmsl. I wasn't keen on the ending but it was still well done, and I guess even if there had been a different ending I wouldn't have been keen lol. Great series.
    •  
      CommentAuthorkzootron
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2014
     (11404.83)
    Damn
    • CommentAuthorDilo
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2014
     (11404.84)
    <watching through binoculars>

    Si's pulled a twat out of the forums...he's got a flaming banhammer in his hands...he's beating the crap out of the twats head...he cannae scream...he has no brains at all...

    Sometimes its just better to remain silent and be thought a twat than to post and remove all doubt :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorddavie
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2014
     (11404.85)
    I want a Crossed t-shirt that just says, "I Pulled Jackson's Finger" - maybe his pic on it somewhere but haven't decided.
    •  
      CommentAuthorddavie
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2014 edited
     (11404.86)
    .
    • CommentAuthorDilo
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2014
     (11404.87)
    Like this eh!?

    Jackson the T-Shirt
    •  
      CommentAuthorddavie
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2014
     (11404.88)
    Definitely! HAHAHAHAHAAAAA - I love this!

    I thought about going to Etsy or Zazzle...whoever it is where you can make your own shirts. But I kept talking myself out of it wondering how many people would ever "get it" if/when they saw it...though I guess the ones who did understand would absolutely HAVE to say something, right?!?!

    Might still print one just with the full torso / hand in the shot and 'I pulled Jackson's finger' -- sort'a in place of him "saying" it, ya know?
    • CommentAuthorBabu Dhakal
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2014 edited
     (11404.89)
    My thoughts, after processing it for a coupla weeks and reading it again. A bit late, I know, but hey! At least it keeps this thread alive for a little bit more.

    First, I'd just like to say that I for one wasn't at all disappointed by the "format" of the final chapter. I had already realized long ago that this story was virtually the same as Shaky's diary, and once Aoileann had ripped the pages from it in Chapter 23 and the diary was no more, Shaky's story, the story we had been reading, was also effectively over. Hence, while I didn't know precisely what to expect in the final chapter, I knew it was going to be different from the previous ones, since we would be no longer reading from Shaky's point of view. True to form, in this chapter it is not Shaky but Rab who is the narrator and protagonist, here, relaying Shaky, Aoileann and the Gamekeeper's/Mr. Tooley's final moments to the three kids and by extension to the rest of us.

    I'll go over some of the things and interesting details I noticed:

    Pg 2-4: Skip and the other two remaining adults are focusing on their individual tasks, while the three kids are huddling together with Rab, who is watching the endgame and relaying the information to them. On the 2nd panel of pg 4 Rab gets a wonderful "Oh Crap!" expression that already tells us that something fucked up has happened. That it's still enough to shock even Rab, after everything that has transpired, gets one's imagination really working. The fact that he then quite explicitly explains to the kids what's happened ("It was a flare gun. I-Intae th' baldie's mouth") shows us how different World 2.0 is from ours, that he can tell them something like that and they can listen without flinching.

    Pg 6-7: Where it gets interesting, though, is what happens next. From Rab's reticence and the hints we get (Chanice saying she can hear moaning) it's clear that Shaky and Aoileann are now having sex, and they're not being quiet about it either. I found it darkly humorous that right after telling them frankly about the Gamekeeper getting a flare shot into his mouth Rab is now very reluctant to tell the kids about that part. It's almost like a reflection of the eternal debate about too much sex and violence in our entertainment, that violence is ok, but sex and nudity is a no-no. Another funny bit here is the 3rd panel of pg 6, where we can clearly see understanding dawning on Roshan's pretty little face even as Chanice and Lance remain blissfully ignorant. This is where we're reminded (if we ever even forgot) of Roshan's own affair with the late John. I don't know whether or not Rab knows about Roshan's past affair, but it he doesn't, his attempt to "protect her" lends the pages it's own additional punchline. And on pg 7 we get Lance innocently (?) and eagerly trying to get Rab to give him the binocular so he can see. However, while these two pages have humor (in my opinion), it's also where we get the first powerful quote: Rab's "It's enough t'be told. Remember that, all youse. Always remember that."

    Pg 8: Another powerful scene in my mind, though low-key: Rab watching as Shaky and Aoileann jump into the Scapa Flow and certain death. Even before he makes the confirmation, his silence in the 2nd panel and him lowering the binoculars and looking downward is enough to tell us what has transpired. It also seems like he's once again reminded of what he did to Shaky. Even though it could be argued that it was a necessity and that Shaky was an untrustworthy cunt, it was still a hard choice to make and its something that he'll have to live with - along with the other things that he's done to survive - for the rest of his days. Very much like Stan and Cindy after they killed the cannibal children in the original series.

    Pg 9: Our first - and only - look at what Rab's been looking (though without the binoculars). Even more so what the kids have been looking. At the same time it shows very little and a hell of a lot.

    Pg 10: The second powerful quote of the chapter. Rab tenderly puts his hand on a questioning Roshan's shoulder and tells her: "I don't know, pet. Somethin'. Maybe nothin'. Sometimes the story's enough, y'know?"


    Pg 12: Our last look at the remaining Cavaites as they head off to an unknown future, but at least they're alive. Another powerful and moving scene.

    Pg 13: A few of Shaky's pages on the rocks or the water, next to a boat (the one the Gamekeeper was burned in. Some other boat?)

    One significant thing I noticed when reading the final chapter is how the dynamics of the group have changed since the very first chapter. As the story unfolded, we saw that Cava was far from being a happy and harmonious community. Each person had their own inner demons and insecurities, tempers were flared and there seemed to be very little of "team spirit", with the Cavaites working together more out of grim necessity than any real liking for each other.

    However, here we see that - even though their numbers have been drastically reduced - the remaining Cavaites are arguably stronger now. Rab has clearly taken up a grandfatherly role in relation to the younger members, as witnessed by his attempts to shield them from the more graphic details of Shaky's denouement. Likewise, in the final group scene we see that Skip has reconciled with his son, Roshan and Chanice have taken up a sisterly relationship and even Jamie (and I only just realized that we still actually know hardly anything about him!) and Miranda seem to have grown closer. Following them all is Rab, who is now clearly the group's leader. But not like other leaders we've seen in Crossed.

    Here too I'd like to comment on something, namely the various leader figures we've seen on Crossed. Time and time again we've seen various survivor groups cursed with all sorts of bad leaders: Joseph Pratt from Family Values, the crazy priest from American Quitters, Todd from the Australia Special, Commander Barnes from Grave New World, and of course the Gamekeeper and Don. Sutter Edwards from the latest arc also looks to be shaping up to one of these, as he seems to have gathered all his survivors merely as bait to lure in the Crossed for one last glorious battle against them. All of them are either insane, power-hungry or both.

    To be continued
    • CommentAuthorBabu Dhakal
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2014 edited
     (11404.90)
    By contrast, the benevolent leaders can almost be counted with the fingers of one hand - Cindy, Addy, Hunt MacAvoy, Harry, Ian and Daphne. What distinguishes them from the bad leaders is first of all the fact that they're not insane. Mentally scarred? Yes. Traumatized? Yes. But not crazy. No megalomaniac plans to set up a "new Garden of Eden" or anything like that. What they also lacked was a lust for power, which made it all too easy for those who had that lust to get drunk on it. All of them were more or less thrust to the part.

    Granted, they too suffer losses and three of them - MacAvoy, Harry and Ian - lose their lives along with all or most of their group. But I'd still argue that having a benevolent and skilled leader is still better than having a skilled but also an evil or crazy one. Cindy's group had the misfortune of crossing paths with Horsecock's group - but ultimately Horsecock and his posse were destroyed. Although Cindy was hard, she wasn't tyrannical as she didn't abuse her position in any way. Anyone who didn't like following her rules was free to go (which, was the same with the Gamekeeper. I'll get back to that in a minute). Addy lost most of her family, but she did the best she could, and the survivors are undoubtedly better off with her than they'd be with her father. MacAvoy had his own character flaws, but these were ultimately outweighed by his honor and sense of duty from his time as a SWAT officer. Ultimately, he succeeded in his mission despite getting Crossed and then killed. Harry was a military man and already the acknowledged leader of his men. But he was no dictator and he was willing to be overruled by their "Chinese parliament". Then there's his sense of duty to consider, first his efforts to protect the Prime Minister, then his attempt to save his family, and finally his attempts to keep his friends safe, help as many people as they can and head to Porton Down in accordance with Gordon Brown's last order to him. Ian was haunted by the death of his wife - and the fact that he had cheated on her - and he could be quite ruthless when the situation called for it, like when they cut that fat guy's tendons as punishment for eating a biscuit and leaving him for the Crossed, but in general he came across as a sensible - if doomed - leader. Daphne of course was very ruthless in her way of disposing of Todd. But when you consider all the things that Todd had done to her, it becomes much more understandable, and though she's much hardened by her experiences, I don't consider her to be a mental basket-case like Amanda, so the women of Todd's road train should be alright with her.

    This leaves two leaders who are in similar situations in WYWH, albeit in different times: Rab and the Gamekeeper. Both of them know much more about survival than the rest of their group. Both are the undisputed leaders. And both lead groups that are greatly diminished. However, these two men could be no more different. Though Rab has made his share of mistakes, has not been shy to use violence and has been willing to resort to extreme measures (breaking Shaky's ankles), overall he's been a reasonable authority figure who's grown as a leader and who, as shown by his behavior in this chapter, is clearly looking out for the well-being of his group.

    The Gamekeeper initially came across as a "hard but fair" type, whose dangerous testing of Shaky in their first encounter could be interpreted as him trying to see whether Shaky had it in him to survive. However, as soon as he invades Agnes' private space when she takes a piss (and doesn't do the same re: any of the males, which removes the excuse that it's all about being on the lookout for the plusfaces) we know that he's not the hard but fair guy we thought he was. Sure enough, once most of his group gets culled by their own stupidity and carelessness and the few survivors are even more at his mercy, he reveals his true colors as a resentful, sadistic tyrant and rapist who uses his new-found power to do all the things he ever wanted to do but could not - kind of like Harold Lorre, actually, but without the insanity.

    The Gamekeeper was the mirror image of Rab: where Rab wants to protect the few remaining Cavaites, the Gamekeeper sought to dominate and exploit them. And what did it ultimately get him? Shot, losing an eye, a leg and a hand, and getting a flare shot to his mouth by the last two people of his original group. Somehow, I can't imagine Rab suffering the same fate from the Cavaites...

    Ultimately, I found the ending of WYWH to be one of the more hopeful ones of Crossed. As a matter of fact, this had one of the highest numbers of survivors of any Crossed story. Only 3D and the Australia special (with the surviving Aboriginal tribe) had more people surviving. Though the Cavaites' futures are uncertain, they're still alive, like Stan and Cindy at the end of the original series, Addy and her family in Family Values, the kids in 3D and Father Dennis and his wards in the Fatal Englishman. So long as you live at the end of the day, you're winning. Since we've already had two WYWH spin-offs in the form of the first Annual with Jackson and "The Folly" with Isaac, I for one wouldn't mind reading a sequel starring Rab and the other Cavaites. And there are also the survivors of Fort George to consider.

    All in all, WYWH has definitely taken its place as one of my three favorite Crossed stories alongside the original series and Thin Red Line.
    • CommentAuthorumber
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2014
     (11404.91)
    I couldn't get into the regular 'Crossed', but this entire series was one of the greatest things ever produced in comics. Thank you, Mr. Spurrier, for an awesome and appropriate ending to a fantastic series... (ahem... wish I could say the same about the Legacy ending...)

    BTW is there any talk of an omnibus edition? I'd love to just get a big ol' hardcover book of this whole series in one go...
  2.  (11404.92)
    I'd like to second that. Omnibus are underrated.
    • CommentAuthorBadBeast
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2014
     (11404.93)
    I'd just like to reiterate how much I enjoyed wywh. I came late to Freakangels, and the story had already been finished, and I was kinda disappointed that all the comments threads were closed. (My only gripe) So I would like to see this thread kept alive for as long as possible, because . . . . . . . well, because I just would. Other forums have the "this thread has been inactive for . . . ." but posting in them isn't really frowned upon, as long as the new post has something relevant to say.

    Saying that, I haven't actually tested what happens in those threads here if you post in them, but I suspect a bollocking might be forthcoming. (Which is why I'd like to see this one kept open for as long as possible) I'd have loved to have been able to post in the FreakAngels comment threads like I have in wywh, and looking at the numbers of posts in each FA one, compared to wywh) I feel there could have been a lot more said. There must be new people coming to read wywh all the time, and their comments are just as relevant (to other readers, at least) as those who managed to find the story before it finished. I realise it would probably mean more work for the admins, but there can't be any shortage of capable people willing to take up the slack. What I'd really like to know then, is how much of a no-no it is to post in those threads that have "been inactive for five days" or whatever, without having to be the one who tests admin fury. And if it's a real no-no, then why not just lock the threads to remove any ambiguity?
  3.  (11404.94)
    I may start a general thoughts/discussion on WYWH sticky thread, if I get a chance a bit later.
    • CommentAuthorBabu Dhakal
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2014 edited
     (11404.95)
    @Si

    Great to know!

    Also, I'd just like to add how this and the penultimate episode reiterated Aoileann's special nature as a Crossed. Where 99.99% of the Crossed would immediately attack, rape, torture and kill any non-infected on sight, whether it was just moments after infection (e.g. Dr. Chopra attacking Gordon Brown) or ages later (Horsecock, the Crossed of Fatal Englishman und so weiter), Aoileann stuck to her "no-(personal)kill" policy to the very end. Even when Shaky was hobbled and helpless, she calmly sat down next to him and had a - more or less - civilized conversation with him. Of course, her revealing to him that she didn't read a word of his diary and merely counted the words, subsequently ripping his self-worth and vanity as a writer to shreds, would count as torture... Even more if she actually did read the diary but lied to Shaky about it. Still, she didn't touch him physically until they got to the horizontal mambo phase.

    There can't be very many Crossed like Aoileann in the world... fortunately. And of course, what kind of Crossed was Shaky in the end? Normal, or another Alpha? Did they both decide to end it all, or was it Aoileann who made the decision for them on account of Shaky being yet another mindless berserk Crossed? This was just the kind of ending to stimulate our imagination, and anything else would have been insufficient.
    • CommentAuthorBadBeast
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2014
     (11404.96)
    Sometimes it's best to be left wondering.

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