Not signed in (Sign In)
  1.  (11413.1)
    I thought it might be handy to have a place to put such things, in the macro whole-series sense.

    This is it.
    • CommentAuthorShan
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2014
     (11413.2)
    Just my opinion but for me, I liked the first book (season?) the best. In fact some of my favourite parts were where the Crossed weren't seen at all for long stretches of time because it allowed the narrative to focus on the different characters and how they managed their day to day lives in the aftermath of a global disaster. At those times, you could have in theory substituted a wide range of disasters for the threat lurking in the background.

    It was an opportunity I'm imagining the limited run series don't have so much given they only have a few issues to tell their story in. Sometimes it works to have the threat in the background and not directly seen.

    I could only imagine an undertaking of this size was an immense effort, I wonder if it will be tried again? Presumably not to this extent but something up to 20 chapters or so one day?

    I really liked the attention to detail, especially how so many locations were actually real life locations that looked a lot like their photographs.

    Thanks again to everyone involved with this, it was an amazing effort.
    • CommentAuthorNo Fear
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2014
     (11413.3)
    Taken as a whole, easily the best Crossed story so far. I guess the London flashbacks and those showing life with the Gamekeeper stand out for me.
    •  
      CommentAuthorkzootron
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2014
     (11413.4)
    As the only long form crossed story to date, it's near impossible to compare it to other stories from the crossed universe. With that being said this is my favorite crossed tale. It went far beyond my expectations.
    • CommentAuthorDannykat
    • CommentTimeAug 28th 2014
     (11413.5)
    I would have said that Garth's first Crossed story is my favorite -- Stan's thoughts on what the Crossed are will haunt me till the day I die -- but Horsecock honestly has absolutely nothing on Aoileann. As far as villains go, she was perfect.
    • CommentAuthorBerserker
    • CommentTimeAug 31st 2014
     (11413.6)
    I thought it was a beautiful love story. But then, I have ... perspectives.

    Anyway, it was a really impressive and engrossing read the whole way. The balance between the action and the narrative was about as good as you can get it - the essential, perpetual cliffhanger that a web comic like this needs to be every ( well, almost every ) week. The twists were always a surprise, and while usually the last thing you'd expect, still entirely believable. Or at least I thought so.

    I'm hoping there's another web comic like this coming from Avatar.
  2.  (11413.7)
    I've followed the Crossed series for a long time and I'm use to the generally shitty outcome most storys end with. (SPOILER)


    But I mean why did Tabitha also have to die? I think series that show you everythings fucked on all sides have more intrigue but stories that don't leave you just an ounce of happiness kinda stink. I was really hoping at the very least she would have survived... It bugs me how they crushed the ship group so easily. The people that remain after they booby trap the ship? Couldn't give a single shit about just about all of them.
    • CommentAuthorBadBeast
    • CommentTimeSep 1st 2014
     (11413.8)
    By getting involved with Shaky, Tabitha from the start, was plot fodder. If she'd lived, then there would have been a "Shaky, Tabs and Baby Shakes play happy families" plotline to play out, and that was never really going to be on the cards. How shit an ending would that have been anyway, in all honesty?
  3.  (11413.9)
    I dont agree. The way the narration was going and from Shakys perspective he was going to leave her to her own devices, but safe. With the baby. I bought it. The idea of if shes with the ship group shes out of the picture, but safe. I was never under the assumption that, thats how the story would end. But they couldn't even give you that little bit of satisfaction. Not even Shakys unborn child. You are right though that she was plot fodder. They certainly treated her like it too. In the time that he WAS worried about her it was almost like she was on the back burners of importance to him. And when she died he didn't say a word about her from that point on until the end. I thought it was cool that although she was suppose to be the person Shaky found solace in; she wasn't like a pure innocent being or anything.

    But dat ending. Were you pleased with the ending? I guess it was a nice change of pace to show something from someone elses perspective. For the majority of the comic they put you right into the situations. Its never second hand but at the same time I feel kinda cheated.
    I wanted to see what a Crossed Shaky was like.


    Also just confirming (And its probably quite obvious but still)

    They had sex (turning Shaky) and then jumped in the river and died right?

    Another also: What implications does a person like Teresa/Aoilean have on the lore behind the Crossed? She seemed mostly intact and intelligent after being infected. It was very much stressed and brought up that she was. Can her type be replicated? Or would she have been like any other had she not been having a seizure when she turned? And what was even causing the seizures?
    • CommentAuthorgragh46
    • CommentTimeSep 2nd 2014 edited
     (11413.10)
    Well, the following post takes into account that:

    a) Tabitha was my favorite character in the entire story, partly because she reminded me of one of my best friends.
    b) I had read every crossed story published so far at the time I came across WYWH, including the badlands arcs.

    The surprising twist in this story would have been that she had survived. I was also kind of "meh" when the driftfleet was apparently taken so easily, but it was pretty obvious from the moment Seline started talking about Teresa being the one who "restrained" the crossed, but how sometimes she "threw them a bone", even "throwing herself one" sometimes. It had been implied that:

    -the driftfleet was mostly composed of people who didn't have any weapon training. In her speech, Dora said the full driftfleet had about 5 or 6 guns (if I remember it well, there were over 300 people), and the ships came from many different origins, but I don't think "military" was one of he mentioned.
    -No matter how many weapons the Cava people gave the driftfleet, there's no way they would have had at least one per person. Jackson kept saying that he was with them because "it's obvious they need help, and you help the ones who need you"
    -The driftfleet "hadn't spotted a crossed for months". Meaning they had had no real combat experience and had grown used to living a pretty cool/calm/happy life. This is further proved when that one american dies before the crossed get the fleet, you can see all of his companions reacting in a not exactly "this is the kind of world where that is normal, react and shoot back"

    Shaky had the right idea, that Tabitha (and everyone) would live a better life in the driftfleet... as long as they managed to go back to the middle of the ocean as they had succesfully been doing until they ran out of fuel and ended up arriving at Cava. And they were going to do exactly that the day after the crossed rapekilled them all by raiding Flota. So Shaky, in his own words, "dumps" Tabitha in there with no explanations (most likely, because she would never have approved of being the only one who enjoyed it while everyne in Cava was left behind, and sadly she had fallen in love with Shaky the snake, and she wouldn't have liked to leave him behind either).

    Then Shaky just had to point out Teresa's location, Jackson attempted to shoot her, Ashoke sacrificed himself, and in came the rapekill of the driftfleet.

    All in all, I wouldn't consider Tabitha a fodder, although she definitely was part of the "Shaky gets involved with you, you're screwed" bunch, featuring Elisa, Des, Viceroy and Richie aong others. The only ones who had a significant amount of interaction with Shaky and survived are Rab and Skip, arguably because they "betrayed" him before he caused their downfall. Perhaps we could include Roshan and Myranda, who were prominent in a specific moment (the first volume and the second one), but later they mostly stayed the hell away from Shaky. Tabitha wasn't featured prominently at some points, but she was around the corner almost all of the time after being introduced properly. You have to consider that our point of view comes from a self-centered narcissist who only truly loves himself, it's pretty normal that he ignores others for long amounts of time. Did she really need to die? Probably not, she could have been one of the survivors in Rab's group, but it's unlikely that she would have liked the idea of leaving Shaky behind. The way the story was going, I was expecting her to die, and I'm thankful about her turning being off-screen and how she became a moderately smart crossed who didn't go straight for the rape-killing. As for Shaky never mentiong her again, he does go into a shock for a bunch of hours after her death. Then he comes across Moses, and if you ask me, he has gone much, much darker in the narration after these events.

    About the ending: Yep, they have sex. Shaky is turned, most likely becoming a standard rape-killey type ("laughter" is heard, and that's the trademark of the standard Crossed), then Teresa and him jump into the water, Teresa most likely knowing that they'd die there, but she wanted an ending.

    -About Teresa herself: that's impossible to know, and Si even makes a joke about it in the main story. Teresa is what she is, and it made one hell of an antagonist, it's enough with knowing that
  4.  (11413.11)
    @gragh46

    +1. You put it in words far better than I would have.

    I would just like to add that it occurs to me that Shaky had two women in his life - his fianceƩ and Aoileann - before he ever met Tabitha, and they both became Crossed. So right from the start I was hoping that Tabitha would break the unlucky streak of Shaky's girlfriends, yet dreading that she wouldn't. Nope, rule of three applied here. Tabitha - alongside Aoileann - also was my favorite character in WYWH, and it's a testament to the writing that we grew to care for her so much, far more than most others of the non-Crossed in the Crossed-verse (she was certainly far, far more sympathetic than her namesake in Badlands' Golden Road).

    Also, if one thinks about it, if someone else had been the protagonist in WYWH (like Rab) then Shaky would have come across as a very unsympathetic character, if not an outright villain. Sort of like a Crossed-verse Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish. Again, it's a testament to the level of the writing that even though we know that Shaky's a cunt, who has committed such things (in chronological order) as abandoning a retarded Ashoke to the elements/Crossed, continuing to fuck Aoileann even when she had an epileptic seizure - turning what was until then consensual sex to rape - willfully ignoring the imminent Crossed threat to their church (and knocking out Moses) for the sake of his own sexual gratification and hence dooming everyone except him, letting out the Crossed mute kid on Cava and using him to extort Rab into giving him a place on the reconnaissance team, manipulating the Cavaites into attacking the driftfleet...

    despite all that, we can't help but sympathize with the bastard, and also think "ok, but how would I do in his place?!" A sobering question indeed.

    And if I wanted any more reminders about how impressive WYWH is, I just have to look at most of the Badlands stuff... like the latest arc, for example. Blech.
  5.  (11413.12)
    @Babu Dhakal wow thats a perfect comparison. Shaky is totally a Crossed-verse Petyr Baelish.

    I think it was risky but quite rewarding that the story was told from the perspective of a just generally shallow human being. Like every couple chapters watching Shakys decision making he is just a complete coward and waste of space. I can't think of any redeeming factor of his character or act except for beaching himself on those rocks at the end. I guess him trying to save Tabitha was a 'good' act but it backfired like mother fucker as usual.


    I can't remember which one it was or how it ended but I recall another Crossed arc involving a guy that I think looked pretty similar to Shaky but he had glasses. And he was also a pretty shallow human being but I remember there were some redeeming factors about him that made him likable. Not just the fact that he was the main character. He may have also been a writer or had a journal I really cant remember. But Shaky was ultimately a terrible character and the only time I ever felt sorry for him was facing a Crossed Tabitha and when they broke his ankles.


    I'm not sure if its just a quota to meet that "there are not happy endings in the crossed" but this is one of the few crossed, maybe the only where I felt closure to the ending. If I remember, and I read it a long time ago: that Crossed arc about the closely net family and patriarch ended so shitty. The girl you had stuck with the whole arc was alive but everyone and everything was fucked. Didnt she have a cripple, a couple kids, a baby, and another pregnant woman in the end? Easy targets ahoy.
  6.  (11413.13)
    Also I don't think it was such a big deal with him trying hold up those guys when he was in the house with Jackson.Nor do I find him so reprehensible for extorting Rab with the crossed kid. Sounds like the normal happenings of any zombie related anything.
    • CommentAuthorn00b f00
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2014
     (11413.14)
    I created an account just to say this. The story is amazing, it was everything I could have wanted and more. It was great, free and usually on time. You're one of the few writers that does Crossed so well and so consistently, in long form and short. So many of the writers don't seem to get that it's about people, how they live and die with it. Too many of them seem to be obsessed with just how they can be shocking, with shallow characters and plots, and about half of badlands is terrible as a result. I think at this point I prefer your stuff to Ennis if only by then thinnest of margins. Well drawn characters and story beats. Shaky was a well drawn asshole. Everything made a sort of sense, and it was easy to sympathize with him and he sometimes did okay things. He wasn't a good person but he was a good viewpoint character. Truly great stuff, thanks for the read. It made me think about how the medium can be delivered, both in model and consistency of craft. I often recommend it to anyone who'd be okay with the gore.

    I can gush about every time moment I love but it'd be shorter to just give you shit about 2 things that for me weren't bad, but just a little off. First is that once Jackson got iced and the few issues after, it felt like the story was sliding in blood towards a grizzly end at high speed. Which it was, and that's cool. But it made me think about the story from a meta perspective "Oh fools are gonna get got and quick as we reach the deadline." Rather than an in story "Oh man things are so bad, how can anyone survive?" Sorta perspective. Again it wasn't poorly done, it just wasn't as well disguised as most of your other story decisions. I'm saying that as someone who actually was fooled and thought shaky was going to miss the expedition. So I'm likely in the minority.

    The other thing is the ending. It was really well done and surprising. There was nothing you could have shown that could have lived up visually to any insane expectations people would have after all those issues. I wasn't disappointed that I didn't get a lavish closeup of the gore, and shaky's final fate. You did a chilling job just with the words. But Shaky is this sorta quintessential survivor, with a bit of a romantic streak that sometimes engages in self destructive behavior. And he has a hard time dealing with that. The last few issues were clearly building towards him committing suicide this way, but in his monologues it never feels like he's aware of that. He's not openly planning that, it's just something in the back of his head. And I wish we got to see the inside of his head when it finally explicitly click "This is how it ends, this is right." It wouldn't have worked with the framing device, but I still wanted to be in his headspace to see what he thought at the end. Interestingly when going through random issues afterwards. I see that I forgot about a previous suicide attempt from C-Day before he was keeping the journal. He tried to kill himself while thinking of a woman, said that he couldn't explain it but he felt right. That he was more stable now, and sorta embarrassed. A totally great bit of foreshadowing, that when I read softened my minor disappointment in the ending. Because it's easy to project that, with the lead up we saw, onto his ultimate fate.

    Super satisfied with the story. I'll be sure to continue to following your stuff. Not just the Crossed stuff, but Disenchanted and anything else I see with your name on it.
  7.  (11413.15)
    I am kind of hoping that in the trade paperback or hardcover of Volume 4 there is a bonus picture of Shakey and Aoileann as they walk into the ocean for the final time.
    • CommentAuthorDannykat
    • CommentTimeSep 5th 2014
     (11413.16)
    @Venturaskyclad

    I highly doubt that will ever be shown in any way shape or form. It would defeat the whole point of Wish You Were Here's ending. Just remember that sometimes it's enough that a story is told.
  8.  (11413.17)
    And anyway, Shaky's ankles were broken. He wouldn't have been able to walk. I imagine it was more a case of Aoileann jumping in and pulling Shaky with her. Which would actually make it her first and only killing, now that I think about it.

    And yes, Rab's description is more than sufficient.

    @n00b f00

    Good point about Shaky's suicide attempt in London, when he tried to drown himself in the Thames, only to be fished out by the police boat with the three cops, one of whom - in hindsight - was clearly one of the proto-Crossed who had collapsed into a coma at some point, only to awaken as a full-blown Crossed. In a sense, Shaky finally got his wish, and by drowning, no less; it's just that it took him about a couple of years for him to succeed
    • CommentAuthorDannykat
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2014
     (11413.18)
    @Babu Dhakal

    Now that you mention the proto-Crossed river cop, I really am starting to wonder how much interaction Garth and Si had. Were all of the events leading up to C-Day carefully planned and organized ahead of schedule, or did Mr. Spurrier -- through an impeccable understanding of Garth's vision -- coincidentally create a scenario that lined up perfectly with the Thin Red Line?
    • CommentAuthorNo Fear
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2014
     (11413.19)
    Just coincidence. I thought it was more a semi reference to the original series where the guy gets shot and goes into a coma before turning. I know there are differences but that was my reading.
    • CommentAuthorBadBeast
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2014
     (11413.20)
    I think Spurrier's vision of The Crossed was closest to Ennis's own. Having read Ennis ever since "Troubled Souls" I'd say that is not necessarily a healthy place to be, but it does make for better storylines.