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  1.  (1291.1)
    am i the only one excited for this?

    good, i loved these books so much when i was a kid. i hope all of the rights can get sorted out soon, just to read new harbinger. which i imagine would be along the lines of "ultimate" but i would be cool with that. anyone else big valiant fans?
    • CommentAuthormorganagrom
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008 edited
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    Not particularly, no. Read a number of them a few years ago and they just felt lifeless - old and written by committee. Grandpa comics.

    There's a lot of other good comics a person can buy for that $25, like the first volumes of Fell and Casanova or the first two volumes of The Exterminators.

    But to each their own.
    • CommentAuthorScottS
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008
    The only thing from Valiant I really liked was Archer & Armstrong when it was done by BWS. I never could get into any of their other publications.
  2.  (1291.4)
    well, no shit casanova kills old valiant comics. and i just got the first 16 issues of the exterminators for free, so thats an even better deal. regardless,i loved those books, and the ideas in them were really something at the time they were released. if the supposed relaunch is done right, they could push things forward again, with the last 15 years as inspiration- the same way they did back then, building off of the tail end of 80s books.
  3.  (1291.5)
    when it was done by BWS

    its funny you mention that- all of the valiant books that were good (aka from the beginning until just after UNITY) tended to have a singular person associated with them. once creative teams started changing (and editorial, from what i have read from those involved), things seemed to fall apart.
  4.  (1291.6)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.

    Yes Archer & Armstrong by BWS was pretty great - it's easy to forget that it was a Valiant book. Too bad it had that unfortunate Unity crossover.
    • CommentAuthormorganagrom
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008 edited
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.

    The Valiant books were largely a creature of their time that should be best left forgotten. Maybe there'll be a relaunch, but hopefully not. Comics is already full of half-hearted work-for-hire "relaunches" most of which die on the vine anyway.

    What exactly did Vailant ever do to push things forward? With the exception of Archer & Armstrong, seemed like pretty generic wannabe superhero material that if anything pushed things back a bit.
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008

    Did you read any books that the Big Two were putting out during the early Valiant heyday? I mean, that was around the days of Secret Defenders for heavensake. Oh, and early Image? I can still read Savage Dragon and love it without the least bit of irony, but the bar was set pretty low for that point in time, and Valiant was doing things in terms of scope & scale & continuity that I suppose Marvel's (old) New Universe was an unsuccessful dry-run for.

    Do I consider myself a Valiant fan? Not really. The books read pretty dated now, and I'm bothered that there isn't a single female character in the line worth a good goddamn. But let's think about context. Think about Valiant's rival imprints & what they were doing with superheroes around that time. (Yes we all love those early 90's Vertigo books & Alan Moore's 1963, but exceptions, exceptions.)

    And it's safe to say that 90% of us Whitechapel roustabouts have read & loved Fell. Kind of apples & oranges to bring it up on a Valiant thread, though.
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008 edited
    At least conceptually I think Valiant was pretty interesting for it's time- hard science rules, strict continuity, more realistic characters, series running in two different time lines that gave hints to what would be upcoming in the present day in the future books. Those were all interesting concepts, although the realization could be argued. Like almost any mainstream commercial art, Valiant really got screwed by the desire for more profit, and Jim Shooter getting pushed out is when it really started to all fall apart. Either way what they were doing at their time was vastly different, and not everyone has to like it, but you can't pretend it was just standard mainstream spandex stuff, if that's what you're convinced of try reading the first Solar Man of the Atom trade and comparing it to Superman or something similar. While DC was busy killing off or breaking backs or driving insane their main guns, Valiant's biggest hero was unintentionally destroying his own universe and giving birth to an entire new one.
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008
    And the 1st Solar trade was illustrated by the ever-popular Barry Windsor-Smith, so that's a plus.
  5.  (1291.11)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    At best Valiant stood out for bringing 70's and 80's sensibilities to comics being published in the 90's.
  6.  (1291.12)
    I'd heard people rave over Harbinger for years, and so a while back I found a really cheap trade of the first five issues. I really, really didn't enjoy it. It's all the Valiant I've read.

    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008
    Oh, there were some terrible comics that came out in the eighties, like Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns, Animal Man, & V for Vendetta.


    But seriously, what luminous 90's funnybook zeitgeist was Valiant railing against?
  7.  (1291.14)
    I cannot say that they were my favorites but I dont really recall hating Solar or XO
    • CommentAuthorDahkr
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008
    I read all the valiant comics when they first came out. I loved them, thought that for superhero comics they were better then most of what the big two were doing at the time. I think its unfair that you would compare it to comics coming out today. After Jim Shooter left, the writing and the scope of the company seemed to turn to flash over substance. I always hoped another company would come along one day to be the new number 3 of superhero comics , like what marvel did in the 60s bringing in the modern (for then ) sensibilties to the writing, not unlike what was started in Ultimates line.
    A friend of mine said to me would'nt it be cool if people like Ellis,Brubaker,Knaufs and others of thier caliber would get together and start a new superhero universe. AHH to dream a little dream.
  8.  (1291.16)
    Archer and Armstrong was pretty fun. Solar was beautiful too. Barry Windsor Smith really can't do much wrong really.

    But even as a kid I thought the whole "Pay twice the price for a shiny cover!" or "Buy them now and put your kids through college when you sell them in 20 years!" was nonsense. I was a freak though, I came to comics reading Cerebus, "collectibility" was never an interest.
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008

    My last comment was misguided, and I'm sorry for being a jerk.
    • CommentAuthormorganagrom
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008 edited
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.

    It's not unfair to compare Valiant Comics of the mid 90's to comics of today since this hardcover comics is asking for today's dollars. If you've only got $25 to spend, you can buy this hardcover or the first 2 paperbacks of Y.

    Tell your friend that "people like Ellis,Brubaker,Knaufs and others of thier caliber" did start a new superhero universe. It was called the Ultraverse, and it was mostly forgettable. Even James Robinson's Firearm got messed up in all the stupid crossover madness. Your friend is better off trying Fell and Criminal and the creators' original non-superhero work which is usually far more original and inspired.
  9.  (1291.19)
    I will get excited when they bring back Quantum and Woody....
  10.  (1291.20)
    Random point of order: I suggest anyone who can look at the artist and co-creator on those first issues of Harbinger. And consider the best comic that came out this week....

    Just felt it should be said.