Whitechapel - Steampunk cultural ethic Fri, 24 May 2013 18:58:23 -0700 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.1.4 & Feed Publisher Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30146#Comment_30146 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30146#Comment_30146 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:17:18 -0700 Thom B. I've been thinking about what Steampunk has to offer the world besides being another quaint subculture, particularly in light of the fact that it's about to step over the line of subculture and into trendy nonsense that will inevitably bring with it hoards of pipe clogging band waggoneers.

What I'm really interested in is the Victorian enthusiastic amateur inventor/scientist part. The way I see it, most of the worlds problems - poverty, hunger climate change etc.- will never be effectively addressed by a top down, high tech research and loads of investment capital approach. Rather, I imagine that any progress that will have any real effect will have to be of the sort that a self educated person can make in their garage.
There's been a lot of debate about weather or not all the Steampunk case mods etc. are legitimate as they don't actually use steam, aren't real Babbage engines or whatever and I think that's pretty legitimate although it also misses the point.
Which is that steampunk is really an art movement. It doesn't really have any cultural agenda such as the original punk movement did and it's certainly not interested with making steam age technology "useful".

I would like to propose that were there to be some sort of a Steampunk cultural ethic it should be in taking that amateur inventor approach to modern technology with an eye to addressing the issues that humanity faces today.

Oh, and it should of course be done in such a way as to exemplify quality workmanship and ostentatious ornamentation. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30151#Comment_30151 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30151#Comment_30151 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:29:43 -0700 Paul Duffield Personally, I'd love to see technology regress in visual style and it might well do if we move away from using plastics, and continue recycling retro fashions at such a massive rate... and real social changes only ever happen from the bottom up. Everyone's sitting on their arse waiting for some scientist or some government to fix their problems, when the only problem is how they spend their money. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30157#Comment_30157 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30157#Comment_30157 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:42:26 -0700 Thom B. Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30158#Comment_30158 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30158#Comment_30158 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:48:04 -0700 Rootfireember Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30159#Comment_30159 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30159#Comment_30159 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:48:33 -0700 warrenellis Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30166#Comment_30166 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30166#Comment_30166 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:09:29 -0700 jrblackwell
Guests at this convention were given space, approached only after conversations with others were finished and respectfully addressed during panel discussions. No one was lewd, abusive, or rude to me during my attendance.

In terms of the DIY ethic, most people I spoke to had made some element of their clothing or personally knew the person who did.

I think there is a longing for a place where there can be a structured formality - a place where the cultural rules call for respect, manners and a sense of grace. Perhaps steampunk, in it's formal expressions, provides the space to have that formality. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30170#Comment_30170 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30170#Comment_30170 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:18:12 -0700 Thom B.
Airships. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30171#Comment_30171 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30171#Comment_30171 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:19:09 -0700 Brad McLoughlin
It's all part of the reaction to the simplicity and ease of living we, as a species, have been working towards for years. Fight Club for sci-fi geeks.

I'd love to see a cultural movement defined by activity and the things it stands for rather than one defined by protesting the things it's against and demanding that others do something about them.

Word. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30172#Comment_30172 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30172#Comment_30172 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:21:17 -0700 MDickey I'd love to see a cultural movement defined by activity and the things it stands for rather than one defined by protesting the things it's against and demanding that others do something about them.


A sort of wild-eyed ambition to accomplish a goal using the materials at hand and a little know-how, regardless of wearing a whalebone corset or a dirty leather smock? ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30175#Comment_30175 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30175#Comment_30175 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:28:59 -0700 Thom B. Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30197#Comment_30197 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30197#Comment_30197 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:13:42 -0700 warrenellis I think there is a longing for a place where there can be a structured formality - a place where the cultural rules call for respect, manners and a sense of grace. Perhaps steampunk, in it's formal expressions, provides the space to have that formality.

I suggested that somewhere last year.

Of course, everyone acted like I was crazy. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30200#Comment_30200 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30200#Comment_30200 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:22:43 -0700 radian >Of course, everyone acted like I was crazy.
That's how you know when you're on the right track. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30206#Comment_30206 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30206#Comment_30206 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:33:48 -0700 jrblackwell think there is a longing for a place where there can be a structured formality - a place where the cultural rules call for respect, manners and a sense of grace. Perhaps steampunk, in it's formal expressions, provides the space to have that formality.

I suggested that somewhere last year.

Of course, everyone acted like I was crazy.

I think there is a resistance to the idea of formality. Many people feel that, as in the past, a formal society would be restrictive and oppressive. However, Cultural Steampunk seems to be an idea that balences freedom and a sense of formality. The people who think that it's crazy might not realize that there is a sense of freedom in formality. It is the freedom to move about as a respected individual in a community. Obviously, in the past, this freedom was not applied to all people, but since Steampunk is a mixture of the Old and the New, it now can be applied in a more equal way.

In many ways, Steampunk is an ideal, rather than a reality. In a place such as SalonCon, it can exist for a weekend - but could it exist for longer periods of time? Could such formality make it's way into the mainstream? ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30211#Comment_30211 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30211#Comment_30211 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:53:20 -0700 JP Carpenter Many people feel that, as in the past, a formal society would be restrictive and oppressive. However, Cultural Steampunk seems to be an idea that balences freedom and a sense of formality. The people who think that it's crazy might not realize that there is a sense of freedom in formality. It is the freedom to move about as a respected individual in a community.

I can see where you're coming from - naturally, I'd be inclined to flick a V sign at the kind of tedious, hierarchical crap that the word 'formality' connotes, but if you're equating formality here with a kind of mutual respect and politeness, that would be rather nice. If somewhat challenging to maintain. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30222#Comment_30222 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30222#Comment_30222 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:18:19 -0700 Thom B. Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30225#Comment_30225 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30225#Comment_30225 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:19:52 -0700 Thom B. Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30226#Comment_30226 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30226#Comment_30226 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:21:16 -0700 moali Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30231#Comment_30231 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30231#Comment_30231 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:44:22 -0700 Doc Ocassi
The formality I can see in the aesthetic of Steampunk, because of the constraints in the design, and that would probably feed into all aspects of the culture, beware the Steampunk xenophobe. Though this would be at odds with the DIY and experimental nature of the culture, with a multitude of people all creating their own Steampunk, it could be an interesting tension.

I do see the ethic or culture being a lot more anarchic, punk, than prudish, Victorian. again an interesting tension. Finding the middle ground may be something that Steampunk can make moves on, because it does seem to explicitly merge these two quite contrary ideas.

think there is a longing for a place where there can be a structured formality - a place where the cultural rules call for respect, manners and a sense of grace. Perhaps steampunk, in it's formal expressions, provides the space to have that formality.
I suggested that somewhere last year.

Of course, everyone acted like I was crazy.
Oh beautiful irony. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30234#Comment_30234 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30234#Comment_30234 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:04:22 -0700 Thom B. I have always thought of Steampunk as an aesthetic rather than anything else

Certainly but most artistic movements have been symptomatic of a change in the culture as a whole if not an explicit commentary on it. It's a matter of form v's content. Because of Steampunks retro aspect I think the Form was "chosen" because of it's content and the relevance that it has to where we find ourselves today. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30280#Comment_30280 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30280#Comment_30280 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:07:42 -0700 zarhooie
In many ways, Steampunk is an ideal, rather than a reality. In a place such as SalonCon, it can exist for a weekend - but could it exist for longer periods of time? Could such formality make it's way into the mainstream?

That's the same question that'd been asked of communism for decades now (centuries?). Certainly, there are many examples of working communist systems, but they are all on a very small scale. 5-50 people isn't that big in the grand scheme of things. There are also some slightly terrifying examples of how communism can go terribly, horribly wrong, but those are, generally, on a national scale. And then of course, there's the "modern" communism (socialism) present in Canada, parts of the EU and various other countries that seems to be working, mostly.
Now class, let's apply what we've learned about communism (small groups of dedicated people = good, large groups of not-so-dedicated people = bad, watered down versions = sustainable) to steampunk. Small groups of people dedicated to steampunk ethics, codes of honor and general societal tendencies should work, to a point. Trying to make it happen on a larger scale, probably not so good. However, applying a somewhat watered down version of steampunk culture (hitting the big points, such as creative thinking, DIY mindsets, an emphasis on politeness and proper manners) to modern society as a whole might just work. Might. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30322#Comment_30322 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30322#Comment_30322 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:57:16 -0700 Jon Wake
My attraction to Steampunk has less to do with any particular infatuation with the late 19th century and more to do with the ethos of Class, Innovation, and Craftsmanship. I do not mean Class in any ancient sense: not the class of the Victorians and their stratified world, nor the Ayn Randsian expression of wealth.

By my definition, Class is the visual and social representation of your self worth and respect for others. It is a code of conduct that, while a bit stolid, demonstrates to all those around you that despite your background, despite your income level, or education, or any of the other status symbols, that I know my worth, and demand to be treated as such. And thus, I will treat others with respect until such a time as they prove to be unworthy of my respect. This may seem cruel and arrogant. In fact, it is by setting guidelines for conduct and expecting others to obey them that we send a clear message that certain behaviors are not to be tolerated. This is an unpopular concept in the the 21st century, but I would hasten to add that treating other people with respect and expecting the same treatment in return isn't a harsh mistress to please. Yet as I've learned, there are some people who view disrespect as a lifestyle.

Yes, this is a reaction to the shouting, heaving, screeching popular culture we live in. Where a debate is two fat men in too-tight ties yelling at each other, and the talentless and pathetic are given unseemly amounts of attention despite (or perhaps because of) their complete inconsequence to daily life. By holding our social behavior to a higher standard, I hope to elevate others to do the same.

Forgiveness is also something to take into account. We are all of us mortal, and fallible, and weak. What is important is not the ideal, it's striving to attain it.

Innovation. What a marvelous thing the Sciences are, what wonders and powers they've gifted us. And how far from our daily lives they seem. But Science and it's sister, Innovation, are our birthrights as human beings. Technology has become so advanced that a single mind cannot create all the parts in your phone, or your computer, or television. But that is not a bad thing. I don't advocate some Luddite return to hunting Salmon in the Willamette with a spear while your woman-thing gathers berries. Such a life leaves little room for art and music and wonder. What we can do, however, is learn how each of these parts work, and how they fit together, and what new things they can be made to do. The Hacking community is an old hand at this, and the ubiquity of iPods, Blackberry, and PDAs is turning this into a full time profession for some. Add to this the widely available information on things that were once the sphere of the expert. The X-Prize may go the a group of rich developers or a small cadre of dedicated hackers. We live in an age where all things great and small can be the pursuit of the citizen inventor, and Steampunk, ideally, fawns on these people and supports them.

Craftsmanship is the quality that initially drew me to the, pardon the pun, nuts and bolts of Steampunk. Something of craftsmanship runs in my family: my mother was a musician, my father a potter, my grandfather an carpenter. To see individuals like Datamancer, Jake Von Slatt, and groups like the Neverwas Haul taking modern tools and imbuing them with the care and attention to detail that a craftsman gives a tool took the lie to the myth that technology needs be ugly. The items that surround us daily were never made for us, nor could they ever realistically be made for us. The End User craftsman takes these modules of Innovation, puts them together, and gifts them with a liveliness and history the individual components never had. And that's just cool.

So Steampunk is a reaction to our world, but it is a particularily constructive reaction, and once that, unlike many other 'punk' movements, is more concerned with building something worthwhile than tearing down old structures.

Now, like all subcultures, it will eventually gain mainstream interest. Hell, over on the Brass Goggles Forum there are more people spray painting Nerf weapons silver and giving them overlong names than there are people figuring out how to attach a computer and pulley driven arm to their front door, and that's to be expected. I, for one, will keep supporting the Practical Artisans and Madmen Inventors, the Circus Acrobats and Stage Magicians, the Adventuresses and Explorers. For these are our heritage, and its an honorable thing to follow in their footsteps. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30337#Comment_30337 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30337#Comment_30337 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:08:32 -0700 Theremina I've been thinking about what Steampunk has to offer the world besides being another quaint subculture, particularly in light of the fact that it's about to step over the line of subculture and into trendy nonsense that will inevitably bring with it hoards of pipe clogging band waggoneers.

I'm pretty sure it stepped over the line into trendy nonsense quite a while ago.

I'm not saying the ideas behind Steampunk TNG lack relevance or validity, or that there aren't truly admirable "steampunk" DIY folks out there (Kinetic Steamworks springs to mind, natch). But you're right, it's more an arts & crafts movement than anything else. It's more about aesthetics, role-playing, and hot glue-gunning than actual innovation. Maybe that's why I have to stifle the giggles when someone behaves as if it's their "lifestyle choice" in front of me.

I think there is a longing for a place where there can be a structured formality - a place where the cultural rules call for respect, manners and a sense of grace. Perhaps steampunk, in it's formal expressions, provides the space to have that formality.

I remember when Warren said something along those lines a while ago. It makes sense, yes. Then again, I've always perceived steampunk as the rougher, dirtier, more rebellious side of Victoriana, not necessarily polite or rigidly formal.

Very little about this current subculture strikes me as genuinely ballsy, dangerous, or edgy. I'd say that communities like the Madagascar Insitute in NYC or The Sustainable Living Roadshow in SF are hitting closer to the mark in terms of the heart and soul of invention and REinvention.

I don't mean to be discouraging. Just... you know. A little grumpy about this stuff lately.

I could blather on about it all night, but I'm packing and moving to a new apartment this weekend, so I'll shaddup now. :) ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30339#Comment_30339 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30339#Comment_30339 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:37:45 -0700 Thom B. Steampunk as a culture seems to have some of the same problems and advantages of Communism

I don't see your line of reasoning here. Communism was a top down smothering parent of an ideology, at least as it has been practiced, even on the Kibbutz there has typically been little choice in where one directs ones efforts. By contrast the Steampunk ethic is more one of free market economics. Communism can't work as a ground up structure because it doesn't allow for competitive evolution and as such is a dead end. Quite to the contrary, the Steampunk ethic rewards those who can produce innovation and who understand the market. Furthermore, equating Socialism with Communism is inherently wrong and referring to it as modern Communism is even more so given that Socialism as a concept, if it doesn't predate Communism, is at least coeval with it.
Communism has been called State Capitalism in that the state controls all aspects of the economy and thereby removes all competition.
By contrast Socialism takes the stance that certain areas are too important to be left up to the markets to control.
Chiefly these areas are Health care, Education and Energy infrastructure. All of which, it can be argued, are better run by the state on behalf of the people than left to the control of the Market. Unlike Communism, Socialism can stimulate a free market economy by reducing startup costs for entrepreneurs such as the costs of workers comp payments and health insurance. Of course the degree of competence with which such policy is executed is always debatable but that's as maybe.

Now, back to Steampunk..

Personally I'm more interested in such cooperative corporations as Mondragon in Spain, which is a great example of how a worker owned organization can function to the benefit of all. Again, to equate such structures with Communism would be entirely mistaken. The cooperative movement is not Communism, rather, if anything it's closer to Anarchy (which I use in it's true sense to mean enlightened self governance). What I am personally working on is is very much a free market venture. Far more so than the subsidy and tariff ridden proxy for a free market that we call America. My main area of concern is intellectual property rights, something that I believe to be terribly harmful to society. I have been releasing all my work under the Creative Commons Attribution/Share Alike license which is essentially a public domain license with the exception that people using my material and creating derivative works based upon it are required to release those works under the same license. My goal here being to produce a body of creative work which anyone who cares to can draw upon whilst contributing to at the same time. I figure that If I can't continually produce work of a higher quality than my competitors then I need to find a new niche. This sort of thinking is something that I've seen quite a lot of within the Steampunk community. For example, Datamancer's putting Von Slatt's keyboard design into production. The notion is as I see it is that the Idea, however good, won't stand on it's own if the execution is shit. You carve out a niche for yourself by finding something that you can do with an artistry that is unique to you. This is, I feel, is a model which approaches social and environmental problems as well as human creativity in a genuinely realistic manner. It blends both our desire to be an individual with necessity of being a member of society. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30340#Comment_30340 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30340#Comment_30340 Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:46:10 -0700 Thom B.
I'll have to take a look at the Madagascar institute and SLR as I'm not familiar with these. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30346#Comment_30346 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30346#Comment_30346 Sat, 15 Mar 2008 00:15:43 -0700 Rootfireember "I don't judge impressionism by the life of Van Gogh"
I wouldn't judge impressionism by VanGogh's works. He wasn't really part of that clique. Something of a wanna be, that ended up creating something rather interesting, visually. Similar, but not wholly kin. Rather like comparing non-avian therapods (Tyrannosaurus, for example) and avian therapoda (birds).

Steampunk isn't that popular, or known where I live. But I think part of the aesthetic is the idea of hand-made, tinkered or modified stuff. A human element; which many may find enticing in our era of computer created products made to fit the current prevailing ethic of wanting everything and wanting it now, and wanting it cheap.

Could've worded this better. Bah. It's late, I'm off to bed. Everything I type could be gurgled tripe of a decaffeinated brain. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30348#Comment_30348 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30348#Comment_30348 Sat, 15 Mar 2008 01:14:26 -0700 Jon Wake The essay I posted was written nearly a year ago. While I still find the ethos useful, and I like to think in some way True, I've been very disappointed with the execution I find.

When I first discovered Steampunk, it seemed to be about 'doing things' in a way I appreciated. So many of the DIY scenes I'd been exposed to were more of a 'cobble it together so it barely works and then throw it out when you get bored with it' scenes. I envisioned a place where people would take the time and care to learn how to properly build something, or play an instrument, or dance, or whatever.

It turns out that, like most things, the dream falls far short of the reality. I've met people who eagerly will say, "You're SteamPunk! I'm SteamPunk!" like they just met a fellow Mormon in Las Vegas. That kind of group mentality rubs me the wrong way. Additionally, they usually don't really do anything. Playing Castle Falkenstein once a month just means you're a geek, and huzzah, I am a geek, but it's not a movement.

Nonetheless, I keep tinkering and building and learning new things, making my own way and being respectful. If people want to call that 'steampunk' or 'electric Jesus Bugaloo', that's fine. I'll still be doing it. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30355#Comment_30355 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30355#Comment_30355 Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:06:49 -0700 Thom B. Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30382#Comment_30382 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30382#Comment_30382 Sat, 15 Mar 2008 07:17:12 -0700 Rootfireember Thom B. - Oooh. Your outside my realm of experience now. YAY new artists & movements to look up. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30403#Comment_30403 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30403#Comment_30403 Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:29:07 -0700 Thom B. Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30407#Comment_30407 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=30407#Comment_30407 Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:38:53 -0700 Rootfireember @Thom B. - Thankyou very much for the book recommendation. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=33462#Comment_33462 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=33462#Comment_33462 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:00:32 -0700 twitch_ramirez Nonetheless, I keep tinkering and building and learning new things, making my own way and being respectful. If people want to call that 'steampunk' or 'electric Jesus Bugaloo', that's fine. I'll still be doing it.

@ Jon Wake - keep doing what your doing. be happy and enjoy. thank you for saying what you said. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=33638#Comment_33638 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=33638#Comment_33638 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:29:26 -0700 steveburnett
"....is a kind of a manifestation of an ethos that is becoming more prevalent in culture today. ....Because of the internet, because of our tremendous archives that we've accrued, the culture of the past is open to us. And as we look at it, we can see that it's a fabulous junkyard of ideas that may have been incredibly beautiful - and may have had an awful lot of life left in them - that have been discarded by the relentless forward rolling of culture and our insistence upon new things every day. I think that we're now in a position where we can look back at the wonderful, glorious remains of our previous cultures - our previous mindsets-and we can use elements from that treasure trove to actually craft things that are appropriate to our future."

Steampunk, issue 3, p.25 ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=35149#Comment_35149 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=35149#Comment_35149 Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:08:49 -0700 Sasha_mak Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=36102#Comment_36102 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=36102#Comment_36102 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 04:23:19 -0700 CrazyHeather082
Full disclosure: The idea of steampunk as a cultural movement is something I have been pushing openly for a while now. I believe that a lot of people are being drawn to the aesthetic right now, and most of those people don't seem to be aware why.

I refuse to speak for other people, but I will say this for me; there are fans of steampunk and there are steampunks. Those of us who create for a living with the steampunk aesthetic in mind ARE working towards something. Yes, we are a long way off, but it will come if we keep trying. The steampunks are a very different group than any other that I have counted myself previously. These people are relentlessly hopeful and highly encouraging of each other! I have found Jake VonSlatt to be one of my biggest supports in my arts, and even the other women who I 'compete' against making jewelry and clothing against... well, we are friendly to each other! I have never gotten a bad vibe from my fellow steampunks.

Coming from someone engulfed in the movement fully, I see it as a giant collaboration between polymath friends who have decided to reject pointless mass production and planned obsolescence.

Yes, I dress in steampunk fashion pretty much all the time, although I approach it from a post apocalypse world time traveler so I have a pretty wide and strange variety of things in my repetoir. I know lots of others that dress in a steampunk lite or victorian inspired manner as a matter of daily life, I just happen to be on the edge as self employed fashion designer, so I let myself go a bit nutters with it.

So yeah. There is meaning for me, and pretty much every other steampunk 'maker' I've talked to feels about the same, but I can't speak for them so I won't name them.

There are a crapload of people out there right now to whom steampunk means nothing more than a way for things to look. That's okay with me too! Honestly, without the fans of steampunk aesthetic, I wouldn't have sales; only trades with other steampunk artists (which I do all the time, incidentally), and until there are steampunk farmers, that's a bad economic theory to be involved in XD But I would love for them to get involved! Learn to build something, metal work, wood working, painting, learn how to make a clock run off gears and springs, that sort of thing...

As for the ecological ideals, I tend to use as many antique parts as I can, and I do my best to recycle anything else appropriate for my art. The clothing is generally best made by searching thrifts and flea markets, and its all about things being hand made, rejecting the cheap junk being pumped out. Yes, the CPU inside Jake's case is still just a mass produced chunk of silicon that will wear out in a couple years, but if they started making objects that would last, especially the bigger ticket items like vehicles and houses and such... the steampunks would be lining up around the block to get it.

I just want quality, I've already seen what quantity is doing to society and the earth itself. I want to live a slower life, and I want to surround myself with people who appreciate the gentility of the British ideal of the Victorian Era without the stifling social mores... many of the steampunks I've met (and I imagine I fall in this category) are like well bred mad scientists... all the class and all the exuberant geekiness you can handle.

Why I think quality has something to do with brass and wood and lace and quality (faux, for me) leather? Those are materials that take patience, skill, and time to work with properly. They are rewarding materials in texture and presence.

okay sorry, had to join in with my .02
Molly 'Porkshanks' ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=36214#Comment_36214 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=36214#Comment_36214 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 12:50:56 -0700 AndrewMayer I just want quality, I've already seen what quantity is doing to society and the earth itself. I want to live a slower life, and I want to surround myself with people who appreciate the gentility of the British ideal of the Victorian Era without the stifling social mores...

I think that absolutely nails a lot of the value that I see in the movement.

I've been doing a lot (a *lot*) of research on the 1880s for a project I'm working on, and If there's one thing that brings it all together it's that idea of quality and craftsmanship. Work you can take pride in, and that retains a sense of authorship.

That era was also a time where many of the most influential people were also incredible showmen, making great claims about their ability to bring the forces of nature under their control, and conquer the unconquerable. It had a positivism about humanity that I think is essentially to us moving forward.

I think the defensive, selfish, and fearful mode we've operated in for the last decade is incredibly dangerous for humanity as a species. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=36525#Comment_36525 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=36525#Comment_36525 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 10:50:16 -0700 Thom B.
Steampunk is is a post modern genre because you are basically representing history and almost parodying it


I'd almost rather call it "Post Retro" and precisely because of the parody aspect! While Retro just recycled, Steampunk does so while passing commentary and suggesting improvements upon what has gone before. Being able to poke fun at anything is, I feel, a prerequisite to taking away useful lessons from it.

its all about things being hand made, rejecting the cheap junk being pumped out


Just to add to this, I think it's important to remember that the Arts and crafts movement of William Morris, Herbert Tudor Buckland et alii was a reaction to the industrial revolution and came at the tail end of the Victorian era. As someone who is devoted to producing the highest quality products I don't necessarily want to rule out the factory. Rather I'd like to see the values of craftsmanship brought into such work places. (not that I think Molly is attacking all manufacturing process' here)

This brings to my most recent thought of the last two weeks.

I'm starting to see Steampunk (and I feel this fits rather well with the recurring time travel theme) as a movement to right histories wrongs, not in the past but in the present. My personal area of interest has been in the industrialization of Japan and how for a brief period, during the time of the Meiji restoration, you would see people walking around in top hats, waistcoats and Hakama. I can imaging a cultural trajectory that would have embraced such a fusion and I'm intent on creating that future that never was. A hundred years late perhaps, but better late than never.
I'm also working on creating a fusion of Manners and behavior of the Victorians and the Japanese which I have dubbed the Northwest Maai Movement with the goal of creating cultural methodologies to allow greater freedom of movement and expression for the individual whilst maintaining boundaries and respect for the group. On this latter goal I would love to hear peoples thoughts and suggestions as it is only a kernel in my mind at this point and is in need of food and water. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=36613#Comment_36613 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=36613#Comment_36613 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:30:35 -0700 Adam
Taking this riiiiiiiiight back to the original post, the concept of Steampunk being used to help developing natons? My understanding of this idea - please correct me if I'm wrong - is that we should be giving basic ground-level engineering skills to the PEOPLE of these nations, rather than high end technology to the often corrupt ill-managed Governments or the capitalist contractors building the infrastructure (Iraq rebuild, anyone?), yes?

You know, I think that may just work. Show them how to work cheap easily sourced materials with simpler processes of a bygone day, and before long some smart eggs will figure out how to catch up with the rest of the world, even without a solid western education. That would actually be sustainable. And who ever said internet chatrooms were just a waste of time! ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=36653#Comment_36653 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=36653#Comment_36653 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:47:52 -0700 Thom B.
No, no rain on the parade, I grew up in Wales so that barely even counts as a light drizzle...

Actually I had been thinking of something more like a Zendo with tea and scones.
I guess I should have been more specific in soliciting peoples opinions. What is the consensus here and what good manners and respectful interaction are?
This is a pretty strange group by all accounts, is there a framework that would translate well to the rest of society?
Also, I'm now thinking about this from something of an art appreciation perspective. It's been my experience that people with crude social skills have a poorly refined sense of aesthetic (please feel free to shoot that down, it's pure bias and unsubstantiated opinion). Is there a social aesthetic that one can learn to recognize? Are some interactions inherently more beautiful than others and if so, what makes them that way?

Incidentally, I don't by the "in eye of the beholder" position here. I don't believe in aesthetic relativism, only the viewers experience is relative and hence trainable. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=36672#Comment_36672 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=36672#Comment_36672 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:39:50 -0700 Eithin
Steampunk: science fiction without technocracy. The world is full of incredibly cool stuff, and incredibly cool things that can be done with it, but the whole point of these things is to make life better and more beautiful on an individual, local level. More than that, you have to take responsibility for your own aesthetics and your own quality of life, either by patronizing artists or making things yourself or (preferably) both. It can and perhaps should spread outwards, but it has to start with yourself. So saith William Morris, SF author and the first person to bring beautiful wallpaper to the masses.

So the point of steampunk, if it has a point, is not to be steampunk, it's to do all that stuff. Sensitive, creative, imaginative, ecological, and dangerously irresponsible use of whatever resources come to hand.

Social aesthetic... mostly, it's about What Fits In, about creating a consistent social theme. A look that plays off something familiar will be more immediately acceptable to most people, and will generally look "more beautiful" if they know how to read it. So it's mostly about building the right kind of subconscious vocabulary and visual grammar. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=36690#Comment_36690 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=36690#Comment_36690 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:30:37 -0700 trini_naenae
I don't follow the aesthetic much, but I definitely like and attempt to live by some/most of the ideas. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37091#Comment_37091 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37091#Comment_37091 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 10:39:37 -0700 XIbalba2012 Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37092#Comment_37092 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37092#Comment_37092 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 10:40:06 -0700 XIbalba2012 Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37358#Comment_37358 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37358#Comment_37358 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 06:38:23 -0700 Chavez_Chavez Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37362#Comment_37362 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37362#Comment_37362 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 06:56:05 -0700 Cat Vincent Poached Man. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37369#Comment_37369 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37369#Comment_37369 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 07:22:09 -0700 Chavez_Chavez Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37545#Comment_37545 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37545#Comment_37545 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:24:04 -0700 Thom B. Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37546#Comment_37546 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37546#Comment_37546 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:26:38 -0700 Thom B. Has it dawned on any of us that if this DID become mainstream, we may just grow to hate it for being mainstream?

That was kind of my point in starting this thread, to explore what aspects of the culture had value that would outlast "trend". ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37551#Comment_37551 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37551#Comment_37551 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:55:39 -0700 trini_naenae
Granted, I never really do become part of a subculture. At least I don't think I've done that yet. I tend to mingle with too many different kinds of groups for that to happen. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37653#Comment_37653 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37653#Comment_37653 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 04:15:09 -0700 Vespers Granted, I never really do become part of a subculture. At least I don't think I've done that yet. I tend to mingle with too many different kinds of groups for that to happen.

I get this too. I dress on the edges of goth, just cos I'm too poor to go it full, and also because I refuse to be associated with the goths in my city, as they are a bunch of infighting poohead ugly shiteaters. But I hang out with the punk/bogan crowd on occassion, with the geekiest of geeks often, with the reenactors (a lot of overlap there), with hippies, with my fellow art students who are really a class all of their own, at least the interesting ones, and hopefully the boring ones will get the fuck out eventually... And then there's all the random people I've met gods know how and hang out with at random. Being part of a single subculture would be limiting. Boring.

As for Steampunk.. heh. The look is.. well, I could be accused of it myself when I throw on my Victorian gear without bothering to go the whole authentic way, but It annoys me slightly, as I believe straight Victoriana in fact looks better. Much more elegant.. Steampunk is *not* a look for elegance. While some manage it, it to me seems often to involve taking something pure and elegant and accessorizing far more than necessary because "OMG yay goggles and superfluous gears and nonfunctional rayguns make everything better!" And then you end up with something that had potential but has all this distracting bleck. This is of course personal taste, so obviously ignore me if you like.

The movement itself.. Well. Steampunk Magazine is an awesome thing full of win and sex. To me, the Steampunk movement is really currently a mask for something deeper, the culture of people who want to get to the roots of being and actually do it properly, 'it' being... everything.

This is, I think, part of what you were getting at originally, Thom. This is the aspect of Steampunk that we really need. The Magazine is a good example of it. It has roots in things like the Scouts too, even though saying the Scouts were good for anything is something one hates to admit. Being self-sufficient is part of it. Being less fucking stupid about things is a part of it. Doing things in a better way.

And doing it with style. That's what we need to take away from Steampunk.. You can do life right, do it yourself, don't waste everything, but you don't have to be a grubby.. thing.

Aaand that's my bullshit for the day. Pick apart and tell me I'ma moron at will. And I *know* I phrased it poorly. I'll try again later if need be. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37659#Comment_37659 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37659#Comment_37659 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 04:41:37 -0700 Adam
I've never actually been exposed to a Steampunk "culture", I must unfortunately say, so I can't offer any insights beyond my extrapolations from what the rest of you say. But from what you're describing, the Steampunk scene in terms of fashion seems little more than cosplay. Which is fine in and of itself, but thats just not a viable social style - its not every-day wear, and could never be accepted as such. So unless such unnecessary frippery were weeded out, Steampunk could never exactly become a culture. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37665#Comment_37665 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37665#Comment_37665 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 05:23:38 -0700 Vespers
And frankly, if you tune down the Steampunk style until could be accepted as mainstream in the way corp-goth is, it'd be just a bit of funny tailoring and some cute earrings. But the style doesn't matter. At all. Not to the movement behind the culture. So Steampunk as a look/culture is likely to die out or get integrated into the multi-stream hulking monstrosity that the Goth culture has become, but the movement, which.. I keep trying to say what it is, but I said it best already and I don't want to ruin that by saying it wrong now... but whatever it is, it'll survive.

EDITED TO SAY: Re-reading Thom's post at the beginning.. this movement is about coming up from individuals and working your way out and though rather than down and into. A distributed delivery and creation system. A system that doesn't rely so much on the top, organizations and businesses and government, but on the people and their networks. That's how Steampunk and especially the creations of it are spreading, up and out. Again, the Magazine is a good example.

I'm getting less and less sure of what I'm saying here. Oh well. My point comes through, perhaps. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37762#Comment_37762 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37762#Comment_37762 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 11:28:30 -0700 trini_naenae Being part of a single subculture would be limiting. Boring. Yeah, it would be boring.

It just occurred to me that something steampunk was in Stardust. And that Neil used that idea how long ago in the book?

Yeah, I suspect the people who are only into steampunk for the looks will be stuck in that look. The rest will move on to a different look when the time comes. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37848#Comment_37848 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37848#Comment_37848 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 13:20:52 -0700 Thom B. But I think Vespers pre-empted me with what I was about to get at...
A distributed delivery and creation system. A system that doesn't rely so much on the top, organizations and businesses and government, but on the people and their networks. That's how Steampunk and especially the creations of it are spreading, up and out.

For myself, I see my connection to Steampunk to be more one of methodology than of style. People have called some of Lastwear's designs Steampunk but I often think that's more because of my top hat than anything else :)
When my designs are influenced by the goggles and rayguns vibe that's just fine but that's not generally where I'm coming from.
The Cosplay side of steampunk (or any genre for that matter) is something I find curious. My real area of interest is in cultural narrative and I've been having a tough time feeling where Cosplay fits in with that. I think that the general awareness of individual and group stories and how they affect our lives and behavior is starting to come to the fore but hasn't crystallized in many peoples minds yet. I don't think it's something that many Cosplayers think about but I suspect that the recent widespread emergence of Cosplay is symptomatic of a desire to change our culture's narrative. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37851#Comment_37851 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37851#Comment_37851 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 13:25:26 -0700 Thom B. Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37959#Comment_37959 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=37959#Comment_37959 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:39:48 -0700 Lawrence Attractor I think there is a longing for a place where there can be a structured formality - a place where the cultural rules call for respect, manners and a sense of grace.

ok.

almost everyone i've ever met who claims to be a "steampunk" (on line or IRL) has been the exact opposite of what you've just described here.

on every steampunk lj group there's always countless people making rude comments to their fellow "steampunks" about how their outfit isn't really "steamy enough" or they're busy chastising people for not writing as if they're some 2 dimensional character from a shit postmodern jules verne ripoff novel. a lot of these people may feel as if they've got a refined sense of manners that are generally seen as unusual by our current generation's standards, but from what i've noticed, this merely comes off as another typically pretentious and condescending form of scenester posturing.

i've only met one of these folks who could handle criticism...any type of criticism, be it of the garden variety rude type or of the non-nasty constructive variety. take for instance, jake von slatt's recent video response to merlin mann's light hearted poke at steampunk culture. his humorless response caused a few waves on boingboing.net between the "true believers" and the generally apathetic non-steam members of aforementioned site. the post that seemed to sum up this feeling best came from "Maddy" stating "I love BB, but everytime I see a Steampunk post, I feel the same way when I saw another Spelling relative show up on Beverly Hills 90210 ..."
...or perhaps it was
"Original video: You have no sense of humor
Retort: Yes I do. Here’s a 32 slide PowerPoint presentation proving I do."

if you have must have a crude and snooty form of anti-social "manners" and no sense of humor you should at least change your subcultural descriptor from "steampunk" to "steamcultured class...but i doubt you'd say that because "punk" just makes what you're doing seem so edgy, doesn't it?

particularly in light of the fact that it's about to step over the line of subculture and into trendy nonsense that will inevitably bring with it hoards of pipe clogging band waggoneers.


honestly, i can't help but chuckle at this statement.
having seen this style on the net for over 10 years now, i think the steamwagon is pushing full capacity.
enjoy the clogged pipes, thom.

L.A. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38025#Comment_38025 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38025#Comment_38025 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 00:39:11 -0700 Vespers
The Steampunk fans are as you described. The Steampunkers who are hiding in the depths of that dross building the cultural artifacts that we're noticing, they're not. It takes manners... of the sort you may have noticed this board (in general, slipping oh so slightly as the numbers grow) to build a network from the ground up. And it takes manners to work together to create and build things you couldn't make on your own. These manners may not all be the perfect refined manners of a better time, but they exist, in the right people. And the manners of the group in general move more towards that respect and sense of grace as more people are educated in the ways their peers are adopting, which they in turn have picked up from others, and from in some ways the Victorian culture some parts of Steampunk are built on.

I assure you it's there. You're just allowing the surface of the aforementioned bandwagoneers (and I agree that it really has pushed over into the trendy nonsense area, that's where this Cosplay shit comes from) to clog you up and stop you from seeing some of the smaller, more realistic group underneath. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38031#Comment_38031 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38031#Comment_38031 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 01:24:26 -0700 becky c
Also, on a less preachy note, I think there's also something to be said about the love of tech. With steampunk, gadgets are an art form again. On a daily basis, I carry more computing power in my pockets than it took to land on the moon, and it's all covered in plastic and smudgy fingerprints. I say hooray for time-machines, ray guns, and anything powered with aether. It's about time we started truly loving our machines again. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38037#Comment_38037 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38037#Comment_38037 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 01:51:13 -0700 Vespers Steampunk represents the idea that anything is possible

Yes! This is another big part of it that I maybe wasn't getting across enough. There IS joy in it. And everything should be an art form. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38047#Comment_38047 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38047#Comment_38047 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 02:25:28 -0700 manikmoon I've flitted around on the edges of steampunk (knowingly/unknowingly) not fully realising the actual aesthetic behind it and I see that it embodies a great deal of my own aspirations. The whole nitty-gritty aspect of it appeals to me - 'never trust a man who doesn't work with his hands'...a Genesis lyric from way back I think.
As far as how it can be seen as 'helping' developing nations, here in South Africa for example, I see a huge need of a change of vision. The entire mindset here (and perhaps elsewhere?) is geared towards education for educations sake- people being goaded into chasing degrees and other bits of paper over actually working. Brick-laying, plumbing, all those skills are looked down on as being lower, lesser..rather concentrate on becoming that high paid lawyer, my son/daughter. And yet, especially in a country like ours, its those very skills that are in chronic short supply as we jostle for housing and services. I cannot remember when I've seen a piece of furniture (unless antique) with dove-tail joints fer chrissakes!! Its all quick fix/instant satisfaction with no understanding of the nuts and bolts.

Even in fashion/fad/whatever, the do-it-yourself ethic is gone, wanna be a punk? Go get it off the shelf..blaaaagh...... ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38643#Comment_38643 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38643#Comment_38643 Thu, 10 Apr 2008 11:09:48 -0700 noblelion
Does Steampunk Smell Better than Other Subcultures? ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38725#Comment_38725 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38725#Comment_38725 Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:38:53 -0700 Theremina
You know you're in trendy nonsense territory when a Gawker blog has something to say about you.

(No offense to Annalee. I actually think she's super rad.) ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38742#Comment_38742 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38742#Comment_38742 Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:16:28 -0700 Jon Wake I guess geeks have to have someone to make fun of other than Furries.
I, for the life of me, can't figure out why. They're really your one-stop shop for all things shameful. Like a 7-11 of mockery. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38749#Comment_38749 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38749#Comment_38749 Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:32:20 -0700 Adam
Plus more than half of it was just direct quotes, maybe two paragraphs of original material. If you're gonna do a commentary on a social phenomena, then actually COMMENT on it. Bah. I am persnickety with rage. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38751#Comment_38751 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38751#Comment_38751 Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:36:19 -0700 noblelion
I usually like io9, but that definitely got my dander up. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38760#Comment_38760 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38760#Comment_38760 Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:53:47 -0700 Theremina Really?

May I make a gentle suggestion? Take a deep breath, have a giggle, do a leedle dance in front of the mirror in your underpants and sock garters. Dat's wot I dew.

Honestly, why does everyone have to take everything So Dreadfully Seriously? My opinion: subcultures aren't nearly as fun once folks get so overly analytical and white-knuckled that they can't laugh at themselves.

Scroll back and look at some of the content in this thread. Some of it's pretty darn unintentionally hilarious. Which is GOOD! It means you're actually invested. It means we're actually swashbuckling a little bit, if only with our brains. Cogitation instead of regurgitation. Yay!

However, a certain level of myopic earnestness will basically guarantee that less thoughtful, invested people (on the outside looking in) are occasionally going to point and snicker.

Don't be mad. Make armpit farts, then build a better blimp. It's going to be okay. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38769#Comment_38769 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38769#Comment_38769 Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:12:04 -0700 warrenellis Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38772#Comment_38772 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38772#Comment_38772 Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:18:00 -0700 Thom B.
I have to say that having read back over the thread again I can quite see how it comes across as some sort of "Steampunk apologist group". I'd never thought that My initial post could be interpreted as an attempt to justify Steampunk. That made me laugh!
I do think that the "Stay in your place! Subcultures aren't allowed to aspire to having a positive roll in the world" vibe is a little sad to see though. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38915#Comment_38915 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38915#Comment_38915 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 01:13:19 -0700 Vespers
I liked the little snipe at the end of that article about common sense, though. Because it really isn't so common at all.

Also, swashbuckling brains is a hilarious concept. That's going in the ideas file. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38944#Comment_38944 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=38944#Comment_38944 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 03:10:23 -0700 Adam Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=39059#Comment_39059 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=39059#Comment_39059 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:30:53 -0700 noblelion Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=39166#Comment_39166 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=39166#Comment_39166 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:56:46 -0700 muse hick
i don't believe that steampunk is dead yet though, but like all cultures, especially the ones bastardised out of others, they don't have pure blood, so chasing a definition is like trying to nail down mercury. good luck with that. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=39168#Comment_39168 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=39168#Comment_39168 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:01:50 -0700 Adam
As for not leaving a comment over there, I'm not yet registered and don't believe I'll bother. In any case, leaving a "Whitechapel Members' Rebuttal" would look a little desperate and just play into the hands of the article, proving its point further... ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=39670#Comment_39670 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=39670#Comment_39670 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 11:05:42 -0700 Thom B.
What are the consequences of a society in which no new mode of thought can reach any level of maturity without the attentions of the masses being focused upon it?

Time for me to go and learn about the history of public criticism. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=39709#Comment_39709 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=39709#Comment_39709 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 14:35:21 -0700 Adam What are the consequences of a society in which no new mode of thought can reach any level of maturity without the attentions of the masses being focused upon it?

An intriguing direction you've just taken. My gut feeling is that the outcome would not be positive. These things need time to germinate in a little pond before being thrust out into the big sea of public consciousness to stand tall, despite the mixed metaphor robbing that last sentence of all meaning. However I don't believe we are yet at that stage, thankfully. Graffiti art has been around for many many long years, and its only just within the last decade that its started to get any form of positive feedback from the more "official" echelons of public society. Pretty much the same with most of the sustained art movements I believe, though feel free to disprove that with fancy big city book-learnin'. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=39713#Comment_39713 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=39713#Comment_39713 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 14:47:55 -0700 Theremina What are the consequences of a society in which no new mode of thought can reach any level of maturity without the attentions of the masses being focused upon it?


I'm definitely fascinated by how this huge sea change is effecting everyone.

Maybe more and more folks will go "off the grid" in response to the over-exposure and sudden speed increase? In two separate and distinct, very actively artsy and thoughtful circles of friends I know, there's been talk about relocating, creative people wanting to build intentional communities out in the woods where they can do their thing away from scrutiny, with a prolonged gestation period. Actually, not just talk. Some of them are already gone. (It's not a new phenomenon, by any means.) Extreme times call for extreme changes, I guess.

But it's also important to keep in mind that Steampunk 2: Electric Boogaloo probably would not exist as this... uh... cultural movement (sorry, still having trouble saying that with a straight face) without the web. There's a big link between everything we're discussing in this thread and the massive changes occurring in how we process information, present and perceive ourselves online.

;)

]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=48847#Comment_48847 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=48847#Comment_48847 Thu, 08 May 2008 14:25:40 -0700 iangil the IHT on steampunk, from the style section, naturally. And here's the IHT's steampunk gallery.

Whatever the "real" steampunks' aspirations and values, the fashion/cosplay aspect of steampunk is what catches the public eye and thus becomes the public perception of steampunk. You can fault L.A. for only knowing fans and generalizing steampunk as a whole based on them, but I'd venture that L.A.'s dug deeper than most people will. You could bastardize Baudrillard and say that the steampunk that the public is coming to know "does not exist"...and you wouldn't be far off. Look at what the word "hacker" means to hacker culture, and then what it means to everyone else.

Verily, enough of that. I just think the world needs some improbably huge airships. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=48867#Comment_48867 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=48867#Comment_48867 Thu, 08 May 2008 15:10:57 -0700 Eithin Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=49568#Comment_49568 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=49568#Comment_49568 Sun, 11 May 2008 13:47:42 -0700 KeeperofManyNames
I think of steampunk as being an aspect of a larger cultural movement away from corporate mass production and towards an original aesthetic created either by each individual, or small creative groups. I think it's a mistake to deride the crafters and cosplayers. Unlike goth, which unfortunately now has mainstream stores all over, steampunk doesn't have any big corporate chains taking over the culture yet. Not that I know of, anyway. To me, steampunk is an opportunity still for people to take an aesthetic and really play with it. Vespers earlier said, "There IS joy in it. And everything should be an art form." I wholeheartedly agree. I don't think you need to build a Babbage engine to be steampunk. If anything from this culture is retained, it should be that sense that we don't need to buy into the styles of the day, that we can create our own culture however we want to, and that our very existance can be artistic.

For the record, I think the same thing about subcultures like the Goths and Cyberpunks. They can all be taken as a way towards self expression despite what the mainstream has turned its eyes towards. I guess the difference is that neither of those had quite the same level of mad-science creativity that seems to be a staple of steampunk.

Really, what I would most like to see is an intersection of all the underground cultures. A merging of ideas. There is common ground between most movements of this sort. Think of the customization tendancies of steampunk merged with the technological expertise of the hacker culture and the gothic love of the dark and ominous. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=49577#Comment_49577 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=49577#Comment_49577 Sun, 11 May 2008 15:25:19 -0700 Theremina Or goth, for that matter? A notoriously passive subculture.) For the most part, the movement seems overly regimented and benign. (I say for the most part because there are always exceptions, and of course it's genuinely exciting that a small handful of folks are experimenting with alternative fuels and technology.) Far more often than not, Steampunk II reads like regressive cultural cosmetic surgery with fancy brass band aids.

If anything from this culture is retained, it should be that sense that we don't need to buy into the styles of the day, that we can create our own culture however we want to, and that our very existance can be artistic.

With all my heart, I agree that it's wonderful to see people being crafty, taking initiative, remaining active. But doesn't it seem to you like this may have become just another style to buy into at this point? The zeitgeist we're discussing has already been commodified quite a bit, hasn't it? And why the need to slap labels all over this existence? Why are intelligent and vibrant people so eager to define themselves by a subculture they subscribe to, especially when said subculture requires adherence to so many aesthetic rules? Isn't that just another form of samey-ness? Another box? Don't you think that might be a hindrance to truly creative and forward-thinking invention, rather than a help?

Really, what I would most like to see is an intersection of all the underground cultures. A merging of ideas.

Thanks to the confusion and uncertainty brought on by relatively sudden and extreme changes in how we communicate and process information, not to mention our collective fear of facing a frightening future, this has already happened. I would agree that the resulting gentlemanly clusterfuck is best exemplified by Steampunk. :) ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=49651#Comment_49651 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=49651#Comment_49651 Sun, 11 May 2008 23:03:51 -0700 robb
for steampunk 2 (to use theremina's term) to grow, it needs to expand, or invite other kids to the workbench.

use victorian amateur scientist approach to better mankind (paraphrased)
"approach," yes. but, what would Tesla say if he saw you still using the same scrap tools he had? push steampunk's aesthetic forward, be agnostic about materials or dwindle to fad. punk is no longer only Sex Pistols safety pins or Ramones chucks. embrace recycling existing materials like plastic and polymers as well.(some last longer, don't be proud and overlook it. how can steampunk interract with found object hackery of ReadyMade? it seems steampunk was actually an adaptive reuse culture, not an inventing one (spinning off what Porkshanks hinted at).

so, amateur scientist doesn't feel right. yet. people rooting away in their workshops is heartening, the results are gorgeous. but, has any steampunk(er?) group or "inventor" invented anything? what better mouse trap has been built, rather than converted to function the same with vaccuum tube applique? there's nothing wrong with a new disco ball, but big scrapyard party favors don't better mankind. to get away from the cosplay stigma, stop focussing on fashion and computer cases and build a better loom or computer.

thom b.: loss of aesthetic in most of today's goods in face of astronomical R&D and Ad costs... garage inventor works with nicer matierals... have to be best to compete
it's more a difference in manufacturing for masses versus cottage industry with local buyers. if you're married to material, quality cherry wood and polished brass are affordable in small quantity only. therefore, steampunk is a local movement, human-scaled. the basement show punk factor. to advance craftsman steampunk as a culture producing quality physical goods, look local. what do your actual neighbors need improved, specific to their area and life (which would look good with brass and cogs)? invent that. then, move on to air ships. Tesla and Eddison are role models, cool. but, be more realistic in functional figureheads to further movement and ethics. alice waters turned craftsmanly growing and cooking local food into a national phenomenon. what can steampunk learn from the slow food movement? Ian McKaye, DC hardcore, and straightedge. both pushed ideals/ethics moreso than their aesthetic. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=49653#Comment_49653 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=49653#Comment_49653 Sun, 11 May 2008 23:45:12 -0700 robb 1. reexamining handcraft and manufacturing is important if the world goes boom. also, china makes everything. this cannot last right? the rest of us need to relearn?
2. it gets kids interested in science. this is a huge issue in the US where domestic placement in science programs is in decline. all sorts of messy issues as majority of researchers are foreign students.
3. act local? breeds diversity and competition, till the locals go national then international and the cycle starts again.
4. doc occassi: prominent thing is DIY/constructivist elements, which leads to mutual respect... creative people would be more polite and accomodating to other creatives
--great. all for it. but, what about everyone else? people who aren't good with their hands? how to embrace them, besides selling them ray gun replicas?

@ Thom B.
however, you can't promote mutual respect with statements like:
to appreciate good design requries a higher standard of education and It's been my experience that people with crude social skills have a poorly refined sense of aesthetic
it sounds like you're relegating groups of people into little valued slots... like a Victorian class structure. bad. impolite. or, just a divisive "steampunker-than-thou" mentality. i don't think you meant it that way, but it didn't read well.

requires higher education is elitist garbage heard from too many designers (industrial, fashion, graphic, whatever). mostly, "good design" is universal, utilitarian, and inherent, sometimes invisibly so. not just "is it pretty?" to appreciate an aspect (aesthetic or mechanic) of a design in reference to history or a specific culture requires a standard of education. that's arguable added aesthetic fluff, not the meat of an object's purpose. engine first, candy apple red finish second. standard case scenario: people buy OXO utensils and tools because they look cool (to some) as a biproduct of functioning well. OXO is sold in food stores to everyone, blindly, without sales staff. the open packaging was designed well -- it makes people want to touch the well-made thing, they get sold on impact. that blobby 2000s aesthetic came out of ergonomic function. this is one reason steampunk might fail. it is aesthetic driving the function of its product (for lack of a better term).

similarly, the Arts & Crafts movement isn't a good steampunk parallel if you're looking to better mankind. only the rich could afford their gorgeous wallpaper. look, instead, to the Vienna Werkstatte or Bauhaus, combine aesthetic and manufacturing for all. arguing whether one sprocket or two on the left side is irrelevent and a matter of taste. let steampunk have its minimalists and maximalist camps, just make it accessible and functional... otherwise it's bad science.

and now i'm shutting up for a while. sorry for the rant. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=50049#Comment_50049 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=50049#Comment_50049 Tue, 13 May 2008 10:34:29 -0700 CrazyHeather082 there's nothing wrong with a new disco ball, but big scrapyard party favors don't better mankind. to get away from the cosplay stigma, stop focussing on fashion and computer cases and build a better loom or computer.

thank you, this is beautifully said.

I would like to posit the idea that part of the message of steampunk is inherent to what we build.

to wit; perhaps the world already has enough sufficiently advanced computers and real weapons and boxy plastic things. Maybe technological advancement has outgrown the social and artistic side of things and we are reacting to that feeling? I cannot say, I am merely one person who has been thrust to the centre of this crazy and wonderful moment we call Steampunk.

I work from no desire but to fill my life with things that make me happy. I find it beautiful that people are so confused by what makes me (and my fellow artisans of the movement) happy that they dedicate whole threads to discuss it! I say this with no sense of irony or sarcasm whatsoever.

People are desperate and afraid. This I can say from all of my interactions with people far and wide, of late. The denial has come to an end and we are looking down the barrel of a big fat gun called The Future. I want people to scoff at what I say, I want to offend and cause mockery at my ideas, because we have come to the point where a small group of loving and polite people claiming that we should start planning for the end of society as we know it is an idea that is growing like a wildfire.

The trimmings be damned! Let the rest of world call it a style or a culture to be swallowed by the machine. Please! That will work to shrug off the chaff that clings to the part we wish to keep in Our City after things go all wonky. Yes, there are lots of people out there who are in it for dubious reasons, and who's to say in the final cut if I am one of them? The point being, I believe I am more ready for what is coming than most. Those who wish to listen are welcome, those who wish to contribute may be my new family.

I personally don't care what you call it, and if I get bored of being called steampunk believe me I have no compunctions about modifying my methods. In fact, for months now I have been accused of pushing the acceptable envelope of what is even acceptably called steampunk. This is by design. That said, I love the style itself, I think steampunk is going in some amazing and strange directions sardonically and the mass of people who follow it are some of the coolest individuals I have ever met.

What are we? Honestly? That's a great question that no one can really answer. I am one person. I do not speak for anyone but myself. I am writing this off the top of my head so perhaps it means nothing at all. I'd love to call us (us being those individuals thrust to the centre of this whole issue who look and act nothing as the media would otherwise have you think) Those Who Wish To Survive.

And I would like to echo the point of the dissonance between the people who follow the scene and the people who could be accused of pioneering it. Yes, we really are polite and kind people, every one of us that I have met in the flesh have stunned me with their level of consideration in personal interactions... but no, none of us who attended the amazing influx of talent that was the Maker's Faire Contraptor's Lounge act out personnas or talk in arched victorian speak. We are really down to earth people. I know a few people who do act like that, and to be honest they kind of come off as disingenuous to me and make me uncomfortable.

This is a great thread so far!

cheers!
Molly ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=50116#Comment_50116 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=50116#Comment_50116 Tue, 13 May 2008 14:23:39 -0700 munin218 Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=50145#Comment_50145 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=50145#Comment_50145 Tue, 13 May 2008 15:52:47 -0700 Eithin absolutely standard characteristic of oppressed groups. Germaine Greer (however much salt you need with most of her work) talks about that among feminists, for instance.

Really, what I would most like to see is an intersection of all the underground cultures. A merging of ideas.

It's called the mainstream. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=50883#Comment_50883 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=50883#Comment_50883 Fri, 16 May 2008 05:42:12 -0700 JamesMacDonald This article today. The focus is primarily on the aesthetics of steampunk, but given the mention of arguments of validity and steampunk cosplay at conventions this seemed like it was the place for it. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=51158#Comment_51158 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=51158#Comment_51158 Sat, 17 May 2008 03:23:13 -0700 Theremina Personally, I like the aesthetic, the art to it. I also like that far-gone sense of wonder that we seem to be missing, that old-time sense of adventure.

Me too, actually. Quite a lot. Please keep in mind you're talking to someone who builds theremins, rides a penny farthing, plays a Stroh violin from the 1900s and has recorded songs on wax cylinder. :) Victoriana, vintage flight gear, outmoded mechanisms, crafting, building, Tesla, corsetry, the road warrior DIY spirit, cryptohistory... I embrace these things.

Here's what I don't embrace about this new so-called Steampunk movement: the ongoing development of a rather exclusive Us vs Them attitude, plenty of unintentionally pompous Borg-speak, a whole lot of flag-waving, and general emphasis on aesthetics and presentation over true innovation or even functionality. But really, it's the painfully earnest treehouse mentality holding court that's making me get all Groucho about Club Steampunk. Cliques freaked me out in junior high, they grossed me out at Burning Man, they turned me off in Williamsburg, and they're seriously bumming me out now.

Now, all that being said, I think it's important to follow your bliss (whatever that may be!) no matter what's happening around you. Of course. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=51724#Comment_51724 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=51724#Comment_51724 Sun, 18 May 2008 20:38:03 -0700 amul Porkshanks:
...decided to reject pointless mass production and planned obsolescence.

...if they started making objects that would last... the steampunks would be lining up around the block to get it.

...brass and wood and lace and quality (faux, for me) leather? ...They are rewarding materials in texture and presence.

AndrewMayer:
Work...that retains a sense of authorship.

becky c:
With steampunk, gadgets are an art form again. On a daily basis, I carry more computing power in my pockets than it took to land on the moon, and it's all covered in plastic and smudgy fingerprints. I say hooray for time-machines...It's about time we started truly loving our machines again.

These are critical points for me about the appeal of steampunk. Technology has advanced to the point where we can put amazing amounts of power into tiny packages, yet these packages all work with a common interface. The end result is that anything you do feels pretty much like everything you do. Whether you're drawing, designing world-changing technology or surfing the internet for porn, you're using the same interface.

We're stuck in a plastic world with buttons to press and screens to read. The steampunk-inspired regression to knobs, pulleys and chains adds novelty to our existence, makes things new again. Steampunk is about designing thinking machines that you can kick into working again.

The comment about planned obsolescence also really strikes home. We live in an age where planned obsolescence is so deeply ingrained in our production strategies that we don't even consider how long we want things to last. The technology backbone simply doesn't last beyond a certain point and that's the end of it.

We want a sense of humanity ingrained in the tools we use to make our struggles easier.

Adam:
Sounds cool enough, but how would you start it out? A small handful of people feverishly explaining the ethos to dull eyed vaguely curious bypassers at a con or something?


Like anything, I think the best way to change the world is to change yourself. Develop a rigorous personal belief system about how you want to interact with the world, and stick to it. Lead by example, and you'll gain far more personal satisfaction, as well as changing far more lives meaningfully, than any attempt to preach.

A friend of mine tracked down her biological mother several years ago. The mother had become a drunken reprobate with severe self-esteem issues which fueled her drinking. Although she wanted a relationship with this woman, my friend was firm about rejecting the alcohol-fueled nastiness which her bio-mom was prone to. She never preached, never suggested that the woman stop drinking. All she did was politely end the conversation every time it turned ugly.

Of her own accord, the mother realized that their conversations lasted longer if she called while sober. Of her own accord, she started sobering up before calling her lost daughter. She then realized that other areas of her life were more enjoyable when she was sober.

And although my friend would never say so herself, I think that it's fair to say that, of her own accord, this woman regained her soul. All the preaching and demanding change that had been done before had no effect. She saw the way her daughter behaved, envied it, and modeled herself after it.

It's a lesson worth taking to heart, I think.

KeeperofManyNames:

I think of steampunk as being an aspect of a larger cultural movement away from corporate mass production and towards an original aesthetic created either by each individual, or small creative groups. I think it's a mistake to deride the crafters and cosplayers.

If anything from this culture is retained, it should be that sense that we don't need to buy into the styles of the day, that we can create our own culture however we want to, and that our very existance can be artistic.


I'm quoting the first paragraph because I think it's worth repeating.

As for the second paragraph, I think that before we can talk about what this particular subculture provides that is worth keeping, we first need to discuss what it is that all subcultures provide.

Isn't every subculture an attempt to move away from the general experience and toward something which is personally appealing? Don't all subcultures begin as a rejection of some mainstream ideal, be it an artistic, spiritual or aesthetic one?

If that's true, then all subcultures provide the same things which rejection of a normative state provides. The question is, what has been created which is not merely an opposition? I submit that, in the opposition, we provide strength to that which we oppose, because those beliefs exist on the same line of tension.

This is tricky to answer, because it is easier to say what a thing is not, than to define what it is. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=51725#Comment_51725 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=51725#Comment_51725 Sun, 18 May 2008 20:38:24 -0700 amul Theremina:

And why the need to slap labels all over this existence? Why are intelligent and vibrant people so eager to define themselves by a subculture they subscribe to, especially when said subculture requires adherence to so many aesthetic rules?

I call this the "Thumbnail Effect." Flickr, for instance, has millions of photographs on it. In order for anyone to look at a particular photo, they have to choose the thumbnail image.

This means that, if the thumbnail isn't interesting, then it doesn't matter how good the full-sized image is.

By the same token, in order to discover any group, philosophy, aesthetic value, etc, we have to search for it. The modern method of searching is by keyword.

In order to find others who share our values, we need to know the catch-phrase used to find them. How does that shape our thinking, our reaction to new information?

Put it another way: How do you find cool Steampunk gear without google-searching "steampunk"? It's a convienent shorthand for "thinks like I do."

This has been a fascinating conversation, and I want to thank everyone who took part in it. I wish I had been here from the beginning. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=51732#Comment_51732 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=51732#Comment_51732 Sun, 18 May 2008 21:03:51 -0700 Dry Observer but, has any steampunk(er?) group or "inventor" invented anything? what better mouse trap has been built, rather than converted to function the same with vaccuum tube applique? there's nothing wrong with a new disco ball, but big scrapyard party favors don't better mankind. to get away from the cosplay stigma, stop focussing on fashion and computer cases and build a better loom or computer.
"Invented anything"? You're kidding, right? =)

A less considerate soul would now bury you in inventions. But I believe your question was sincere, so I will answer with only one invention that I have recently put into public domain by way of a handful of forums. Behold, Robb. And be amazed. Or unimpressed. It hardly matters. =)
--

Note: Originally Posted on Another Forum

Given the cost of heating homes in many colder climates, quite a few homeowners could use a cheap, renewable source of warmth to get them through the winter.

So, take a small wind turbine like the ones once used (and occasionally still used) in the Midwest to pump water from wells. Use a belt to transfer momentum from the turbine down into your house, possibly using a pipe of some kind as a shaft to shelter said belt and the route it takes into your house from the elements. If you need this shaft to rotate in order to provide freedom of movement to the mini-windmill above, put another pipe inside the first, secured with spinning rotor rings at each end.

At the bottom of this shaft you'll have two things. One, a copper disc driven by the belt that will spin in tandem with your wind turbine. Two, a 'U'-shaped bar magnet. You set the bar magnet up so that it can be locked in place when needed, and unlocked and removed (or simply flipped back if you have it on some kind of a hinge) when it is unneeded, the apparatus is overheating or your automatic thermostat is regulating the temperature.

The first electromagnetic generator, the Faraday disc, used exactly this setup to produce electrical current.

The downside, owing to the fact that the current tended to immediately redistribute to the area of the disc away from the magnet, was that it generated very little usable power, and the movement of electricity in the disc created a lot of heat due to resistance.

In your case, you would not be tapping the current, but rather employing the excess heat generated by all of that current impelled within the disc to supplement your normal heating methods. Obviously, you would have to be very careful not to burn or shock anyone or set anything on fire with this setup. You may want to put some kind of a fire-resistant cage, mesh or grill around it to keep debris and curious onlookers back. An electrically insulated barrier may also prove wise, depending on the charge generated (possibly some shatterproof glass would be useful, but it all depends on how much electricity your system can generate at top speed). Of course, magnets will lose their magnetic properties when heated past specific temperatures, but this point is pretty high for most magnetic materials, and will reverse again once they cool.

This technique may not heat your entire house, but depending on wind strength and consistency, may provide a very substantial degree of warmth for whatever room you have it installed in. Without knowing anything about the windspeeds you will be experiencing, I can make no estimates regarding how effective this system would be in your particular house. If you are curious, however, I would suggest getting a device that can measure windspeed above your residence (you may be able to get one on loan from your local university). If local wind conditions seem promising, you might then set up your heater temporarily outside, just to see how much heat it can produce before cutting a hole in your roof to install it. Remember, of course, that the heat will disperse much faster in the open while the wind is blowing.

But if you then find your wind-thermal system to be worthwhile, you may choose to have it installed professionally. In that case, good luck.
--

And, of course, if the above all seems too complicated, use a waterwheel or water turbine to provide the motive power... assuming you're living next to a substantial source of water power, or could divert one for a micro-hydro project.


(Continued in next post with Update...) ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=51733#Comment_51733 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=51733#Comment_51733 Sun, 18 May 2008 21:04:20 -0700 Dry Observer Update: (Again, referring to responses on that Other Forum)

To clarify, since there seems to be some confusion about this invention...

Ultimately what you have here is a U-shaped bar magnet, a rotating disc of copper, and something to turn that disc. Your source of motive power can be wind, micro-hydro or a couple of teenagers working out on a stationary bike (easily rigged up from an old bicycle as needed).

But the point of the system is that someone with very limited resources could find a way to make that disc turn and then only requires a few parts that are relatively easily bought or salvaged (despite recent increases in the price of copper). Why is this important?

Because with fossil fuel prices skyrocketing in the face of peak oil and other economic issues, there are a lot of people who will not be able to afford heating oil this year, and who can not burn enough wood to stay warm in their houses. I have put this 'invention' into public domain because it could make a great difference in some people's lives -- perhaps even save a few. If you do not see it as being the most elegant technical solution possible, in many respects, you are correct. It is only elegant insofar as it is a cheap means for the relatively poor but capable to survive a difficult winter without heating oil.

A further note:
Yes, there are other ways to transfer power into your house besides a belt -- that is just a common method a lot of people have experience with. I am not even sure if the classic water-pump windmill uses a belt.

But having said that, a vertical axial wind turbine could easily spin a rod that descends into your home through a much narrower hole. So long as you waterproof said hole and avoid frictional overheating, that should work out just as well for you... assuming you can rig up a simple vertical axial turbine.

But again, to repeat, all of this is easily within the capacity of a capable handyman with a few parts and scraps. My apologies to any who felt this necessarily replaced their much more advanced generators, and their 12,000-mile supply lines back to China.

--
I am hereby placing the above technique into public domain for anyone who would like to use it.

I make no claims regarding the above concept, only to tell you it is here and can now be used by anyone. Thank you for listening.

Ralph Cerchione ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=51789#Comment_51789 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=51789#Comment_51789 Sun, 18 May 2008 23:57:55 -0700 trini_naenae
Now that I've gotten my other-rant out of my system... I suspect the us-them mentality and adding of pointless rules and labels and whatnot is one of those things that subcultures do when they get mainstream. It intensifies at least. It's harder to be this unique group when it feels like everyone else is doing it, and they're not even thinking about why. They want to maintain the authenticity, and I suspect once one starts attempting to maintain authenticity, it's probably a good sign that it's time to change and move on. And of course, authenticity, and subcultures, and all of that stuff is just a huge can of worms. I have a feeling that the meaning of authenticity has changed.

And when Steampunk is absorbed into the mainstream and if it loses what it is good about, it'll be a bummer (kinda), but there will be something new and more exciting that we'll be doing, with the same foundation but it'll be different enough. Because who wants to be stagnant? ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=52028#Comment_52028 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=52028#Comment_52028 Mon, 19 May 2008 23:04:33 -0700 trini_naenae Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=52160#Comment_52160 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=52160#Comment_52160 Tue, 20 May 2008 11:26:35 -0700 Rootfireember Othering -the removal of people to the outside of society, is something that I believe is a social action caused by biological necessity. It's biologically profitable to kick those who don't quite fit in away from your group, to exile them, as they could be ill or otherwise dangerous to you, or your group/herd/whatever. While we as humans now have hospitals and whatnot to deal with the ill, diseased and mentally unstable, there's still something of a natural drive in people to remove that which is 'other', probably a carryover from times when it DID work to help out the species. Biologically, and behaviorally, much of humanity still behaves and exists on an 'animal' level, because we are animals. Just fancy ones. This doesn't mean I approve of society's pushing of those who don't quite fit in to the outside edge, or their treatment of those at that edge; just that I can understand where it might be coming from. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=57153#Comment_57153 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=57153#Comment_57153 Sat, 07 Jun 2008 21:54:17 -0700 photomagex
I do agree with many of the ideas and viewpoints of the Steampunk culture yet had no idea that there was such a culture until reading this thread. As I get older, and hopefully wiser, I see what is happening to society and it truly concerns me. I see people today putting all of their energy and creativity into virtual projects, such as video games, chat lines, cell phones and nothing of any matter, nothing you can hold in your hands. So much of our workforce is made up of pencil pushers (now key punchers) and very little hands on building and making of actual products. When they are involved in the making of products, it is so mass produced that all anyone knows is their small part of the process (insert tab A into slot B).

What do these people know about actual life skills or should I say survival skills (as they do have the skills for life today)? It seems there is a very low percentile that actually have useful or complete knowledge of a trade.

I think aside from the aesthetics of Steampunk this actually gives it some significance and value. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=57761#Comment_57761 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=57761#Comment_57761 Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:56:34 -0700 stsparky Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=58865#Comment_58865 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=58865#Comment_58865 Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:49:33 -0700 Thom B.
@ Thom B.
however, you can't promote mutual respect with statements like:

"to appreciate good design requires a higher standard of education and It's been my experience that people with crude social skills have a poorly refined sense of aesthetic"

it sounds like you're relegating groups of people into little valued slots... like a Victorian class structure. bad. impolite. or, just a divisive "steampunker-than-thou" mentality. i don't think you meant it that way, but it didn't read well


Well, firstly you're right. I'm not trying to put people into "value brackets". That being said, the way you choose to interpret me isn't really my responsibility is it? If you were concerned that you had misunderstood my sentiment you could have just asked me to clarify rather than painting me as being socially divisive. As it is, your argument hasn't addressed my point at all, only the tone of my argument.
Do you actually have a contention with my assertion that a higher standard of education is a prerequisite to art/design appreciation or simply that I should choose my words more carefully?
If the latter than I gladly concede the point, upon re-reading my earlier statement was badly written and failed to convey what I wanted it too.
As to the former allow me elucidate further so that you may, should you so wish, hold it in contention for it’s* failures of logic rather than it’s failures of tone.
…
Actually in the space of typing this I have come to doubt my own argument enough that I’ll need to go away and give it all some serious thought before I can take a posture on it.
I leave the above unchanged so that the next paragraph make sense(?)

*”It’s” rather than “my” is used deliberately as I find that I rarely agree with anything that I said more than a month ago.
This does somewhat contravene Mr. Ellis’ injunction to own ones words but that has led me to an interesting thought on why it is that online discussions so often turn nasty. Namely, I am not now who I was yesterday and yet I am treated as if I am. (Not that this doesn’t happen in face to face interactions – it’s just not as pronounced)
This style of communication forces me to address the fact that I am incautious with what I say now. Confronted with my own ugliness of mind, the dichotomy between my perceived sense of self - “I’m smarter and more worthy than you” - and reality - “I know neither myself nor you and all my perceptions and beliefs are suspect” – results in psychic pain most easily manifested as anger and aggression.

So in conclusion, thanks for the humbling lesson on self! ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=58890#Comment_58890 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=58890#Comment_58890 Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:06:36 -0700 Harlotbug3
I also love cheapass smartass comics. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=58941#Comment_58941 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=58941#Comment_58941 Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:55:30 -0700 Dj Dead Billy @robb

oh look, people getting unnecessarily butthurt in a thread about steampunk. i'm so surprised.

first.
there are new subcultures being born every 20 minutes in every major city on the planet.


second.
why do people think subcultures are even worth our attention, let alone our individual identity?

don't answer this question for me here, because i don't give a fuck.
ask it of yourself. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=58947#Comment_58947 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=58947#Comment_58947 Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:17:40 -0700 Thom B.
Er, OK Bill... ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=60981#Comment_60981 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=60981#Comment_60981 Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:43:48 -0700 KeeperofManyNames
I would argue it, but it would be kind of pointless. So forget it. [rolls eyes]

While I don't think that a higher education is necessary for artistic appreciation [as that view sort of breeds modern art pretentious drivel that no one understands], I think that at least some knowledge is necessary to create truly excellent art, in the same way that it is necessary for creating working machines. Both seem to go hand-in-hand with steampunk. So, could steampunk be partly about making all knowledge more available? Or am just babbling bullshit now?

Also, was the apprentice system still around during Victorian times?

That comic is great. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=61078#Comment_61078 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=61078#Comment_61078 Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:13:55 -0700 Stin You can only build so much stuff, applying the ideas and methods of steampunk (and Tesla and Edison), and while this isn't necessarily a bad thing it narrows the applicable practice area.
For example, I've never heard of steampunk medicine, or chemistry, or biology. And I don't include herbalism and the like into that heading because there's a lot less science in herbalism or alt medicine than there is in your most basic steampunk experiments like the one @Dry Observer posted.
So if there's a natural limit to the exercise of steampunk inspired science, then it has to be a movement of philosophy and aesthetic whose values evolved out of the culture and science of the victiorian era and steampunk fiction, right?
And from there, how do you best apply that philosophy and aesthetic to the wet sciences in a way that makes it meaningful? ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=61738#Comment_61738 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=61738#Comment_61738 Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:13:37 -0700 bjacques
Medicine always lags a bit. In The Difference Engine, the fantastic leaps in information science still allows a major character 's advanced syphilis to be misdiagnosed as "railway spine." As for biology, once the Victorians figured out evolution, they immediately misapplied it to society, with regrettable results. They sure as hell weren't any good at diagnosing women's diseases. War, social outrage and luck drive medical advances, and the Victorians were a pretty smug bunch. If it killed women or poor people, they weren't too worried about it (cf. AIDS and the US during the Reagan years).

So you'd have to reimagine an alternate history with drivers (social/religious movement, a mad scientist or two) that somehow accelerate the development of the soft sciences to bring them up to par with the hard ones. Some lost opportunities in our own history that were seized in the Steampunk timeline, something like that. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=61756#Comment_61756 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=61756#Comment_61756 Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:52:27 -0700 Eithin
Seriously, though - it's a sensibility, not a method. You might well get beautiful results with beautiful tools and apparatus, but that will make you a steampunk scientist, rather than making the discipline "steampunk science". ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=61793#Comment_61793 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=61793#Comment_61793 Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:54:40 -0700 trini_naenae
*They practically adopted Michelangelo and made sure he had the best teachers ever, protected Donatello and Botticelli, invested in Brunelleschi, etc etc etc.

**Granted, all of this is fresh on my mind as I was just in Florence studying art. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=64021#Comment_64021 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=64021#Comment_64021 Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:46:04 -0700 KeeperofManyNames Girl Genius. Very “Modern Prometheus.”

Oh, man, if you want to see beautiful tools, check out some of the astrolabes and navigation equipment. One thing you have to give the people of the Middle Ages and Renaissance: they really knew the value of a well-made tool. Do you have any pictures of the tools? I would love to see.

For that matter, there were beautiful machines dating back to Archimedes. There was even a working steam engine in the Library of Alexandria, before it got burned down. So, maybe any rewriting of history to include steampunk would date all the way back to the Romans, with the library surviving.

At any rate, the love and respect for the tools of whatever trade you go into would definitely be an aspect that Steampunk culture could bring to the rest of the world at large. I think Eithin probably hit the nail on the head, though. Not everything about steampunk should be superliteral. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=65142#Comment_65142 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=65142#Comment_65142 Mon, 07 Jul 2008 00:01:12 -0700 Jaborwhalky


Some times direct links can get to long as these news paper sites tend to have long URL addresses . ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=65380#Comment_65380 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=65380#Comment_65380 Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:48:04 -0700 Wordforge Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=65723#Comment_65723 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=65723#Comment_65723 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 19:58:10 -0700 KeeperofManyNames
But yeah, with any luck that's what'll happen [barring a 2012 ascention into the supercontext...] and people will generally get more into the making and embellishing stuff.

Hah, you know, that article reminded me of one other important part of steampunk: it's just fun to run around with a top hat calling yourself Hieronymus! ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=66207#Comment_66207 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=66207#Comment_66207 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:19:50 -0700 Harlotbug3 Married To The Sea
marriedtothesea.com ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=66213#Comment_66213 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=66213#Comment_66213 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:42:01 -0700 aike
One of my biggest problems with modern society is the wasteful, one use approach to goods. We throw away our cell phones after a year or two, computers rarely last longer, cars are changed after a few years on average, etc. etc. When something breaks, we throw it away and get a new, improved, better one. Things are designed to break and be discarded when the warranty runs out.

Steampunk is all about re-use, craftsmanship, quality. If something breaks, you don't get a new one, you fix it. Resources are too valuable to simply throw them away. When you have a tool or a gadget that has been crafted with intricate care and detail, with attention to quality and beauty, there is little desire to simply throw it away.

How many Harley drivers change their motorcycle every few years? Compare that to the average rice rocket rider. Arguably this has little to do with craftsmanship, per se, but with the item having personality, and absorbing time and care and attention from the owner. Imagine a mobile phone that you spent time and care to craft. Would you want to simply throw it away when a new model came out?

Moving towards a society that values our possessions in a different way (and by that I do not mean being owned by them, but respecting them) is I think a fundamental aspect of becoming sustainable. The steampunk attitude towards craftsmanship, aesthetics and reuse in all objects is a helpful pointer. Imagine your next laptop being a beautiful engraved piece of art, which when it was time to upgrade or something broke allowed you to replace just minimal parts, retaining the rest? Or when your microwave breaks, it being easily fixable, or if not, the pieces being genuinely valuable to someone else?

It is just a small part of the steampunk idea, but it is what appeals to me, personally. (apart from the aesthetic style, which I love...) ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=70098#Comment_70098 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=70098#Comment_70098 Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:17:26 -0700 Jane_Irwin would like to throw my two cents in.

I'm really kind of torn on the whole capital-S Steampunk thing. It's got so many facets, from the cosplay to the practical, and I like most of them, save for the ridiculous farbing cliquishness that accompanies every single subculture I've ever encountered -- an attitude that makes me want to turn on my heel and give up the culture the minute I come into contact with it.

That being said, I suppose that I must have some sort of genetic predilection towards steampunk, given that my grandfather built two working coal-fired steam-engines out of spare parts he cobbled together from the surrounding farms, and actually used one to throw an old-fashioned threshing bee in one of our smaller wheat fields. Later, he and my dad used parts from a third engine and built what we referred to as "The Boiler," a wood-fired stove that heated our house and hot water (The Boiler was actually take two; they first built a Swedish design called a "hasha," which failed, was knocked down and replaced by The Boiler). Through the front window of the shed that housed it, you could see the big silver eagle and the word "CASE" on the nose of the engine.

Given that this kind of scrapyard ingenuity runs in my family, I've always been big into DIY, no matter what the topic: I make my own soap and cheese, garden and put up food, know how to weld, and have self-published two books and am webcomicking a third. It's that kind of homebrew ethic, even before the awesome brass-goggles fashion, that attracted me Steampunk in the first place.

Here's the kicker, though. Having grown up on a farm (and spent several autumns cutting and piling cordwood to feed The Boiler so we didn't freeze) I know exactly the amount of work that kind of an ethic takes to maintain, whether it's urban punk-of-whatever-kind or self-sufficiency, be it hippy or backwoods. Each has its strengths, each is heavily cemented in self-reliance, creative reuse and craft -- but is also horribly prone to the kind of oroborean echo-chamber thinking of any subculture. So rather than identify myself with one specific ethic, I both admire and distance myself from all of them. I'm much more inclined to dabble and take the best (and most fun) parts from each. The yuppiehippies have the best food, the homesteaders have practicality, and the steampunkers have the style.

The best encapsulation of why I'm drawn to the cosplay aspect of Steampunk was an exchange between Paul and Carla at WizardWorld: Paul referred to our getups as "finery," and Carla countered that it was "Toughery." At least the way I dress for it, Steampunk is the fashion of getting cool stuff done and looking grand while you're doing it. Goggles, leather aprons, stompy boots and spats are far, far more my style than goth or frills could ever be. I am a practical craftsman down to the bone, and nothing thrills me more than making stuff with my own hands -- and seeing other people do the same.

I was also pretty surprised to see this level of invective towards steampunk culture on a recent BoingBoing post about typewriter-and-watchgear jewelry. Still, I can understand the critique -- when the focus shifts too far from the craft and just into the slap-some-gears-on-it-and-call-it-art, you've slipped into metaculture (for the record, I'm making and selling my own clockpunk jewelry, so I obviously don't have too much of a problem with non-working, pretty stuff). I think, per the discussion's original point, that the focus of Steampunk needs to be primarily on the craft, and not on the outward lifestyle. If an ethical mindset is going to survive the long run, its participants have to be marathoners, not sprinters. They have to be really devoted to the underpinnings of the culture, not the trappings. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=70123#Comment_70123 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=70123#Comment_70123 Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:26:44 -0700 oleoleo One thing you have to give the people of the Middle Ages and Renaissance: they really knew the value of a well-made tool.

Well, if they didn't work, the user/owner would be lost at sea and possibly dead.

Oh fuck, I crushed my iPod and am soon to be eaten by wolves oh shit! ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=70392#Comment_70392 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=70392#Comment_70392 Sat, 26 Jul 2008 08:26:06 -0700 KeeperofManyNames Oh fuck, I crushed my iPod and am soon to be eaten by wolves oh shit!

It would certainly push innovation in music playing technology if stuff like that happened. I'm all for it.

Good point, though. I guess the knowledge that we still depend on our tools to survive is so distanced from our immediate survival that they become less important.

Aike and Jane_Irwin, both of your posts are exceptional and extremely well thought out. Unfortunately, they both express my thoughts so much better than I can that I can't really think of anything more to add. Heres to craftsmanship, and the reusing of materials! ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=71283#Comment_71283 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=71283#Comment_71283 Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:14:24 -0700 VoxDraconae
I would argue that the "cosplay" issue that has some of us concerned is an issue that has to be dealt with, instead of ignored and pushed off on the "Steampunk fans." To a large degree, any given subculture is fairly well defined by its visual aesthetic- that is how the ubiquitous "Other" (as a tangent, its interesting how that concept plays into Girl Genius...) identifies them. For hippies and deadheads, it was again that self-made concept, but with elements of American Indian design built in. For goths or punks, or even more mainstream nerds now, the visual style is fairly readily indentified. For many Others, it might well be the first introduction to the subculture- it must, therefore, accurately represent that particular visual style that makes it unique- in regards to steampunk. that means the DIY aspect, certainly, but it must reflect Victorian-era England and that mad scientist idea, since that is the idea that the culture itself comes from.

Here's a question:
Must we then discard our respect for the things left in modern culture that are still well made? For example, a Harley-Davidson motorcycle is a very well built machine. So well made, in fact, that the manufacturers intentionally mistune some small aspect of the engine a fraction of an inch (I think it amounts to a millimeter or 2) to produce the trademark Harley noise (which is in fact a trademark)- without that mistune, Harleys would be among the quietest bikes on the market. Likewise, they do take a fair amount of pride in the aesthetic of their product. So we must decide between steampunk in style, or steampunk in principle- which would be more steampunk- to build your own bike, or to pay homage to a well built machine that is in production currently, and perhaps add a few visual flairs of your own? Ultimately its a question between a romantic ideal and a classical ideal- sure, building your own would LOOK steampunk as hell, but that's not the point, is it?

I think I agree with Robb's sentiment about shaking the tree or modern technologies and seeing what fruits fall out that we can still use. Yeah, wood, leather, brass, glass, copper, etc.
are more authentic, and probably easier to obtain, but if a plastic or synthetic cloth does the job better, why not? I fit does it as well, then it's a matter of artistic taste. I love the visual style of steampunk, don't get me wrong, but I don't get the feeling that what we're all trying to eke out of it, is it? We're focusing the DIY ethic, the ethic of consuming others' waste and recycling it, and traveling on the life left in the past. Someone mentioned that this subculture is only possible through the internet, where the entire past of our culture is at our fingertips- I agree absolutely, and furthermore add that this is a resource we cannot afford to waste.

So while I agree with much of what has been said here about sifting through the garbage and painting it up and making it work again, I also think its important to celebrate what the modern culture has given us (we can argue whether or not my musical ADD is a result of having all of my music at my fingertips in another discussion), but at the same time, let's not forget to celebrate the visual style, which, while becoming more mainstream, is still unique. Each of us just needs to be clear on our answer when someone asks us why we're wearing goggles and a leather apron.

Also, don't worry about defining your subculture- just live it. Trust me, the anthropologists are already working on it.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
-Theodore Roosevelt, Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris
April 23rd, 1910 ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=72263#Comment_72263 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=72263#Comment_72263 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:44:39 -0700 Thom B.
And in terms of celebrating modern culture I think that's still right at the heart of SP. What else are Von Slat and Datamancers case mods to be considered if not celebrations of modern tech? ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=72298#Comment_72298 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=72298#Comment_72298 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:59:50 -0700 WiseEyes
I mean, I've made effort and built some things, mostly fences... but I haven't really been able to build my own tech, I guess. I think that's what it is is building tools that you actually use in your life. Or at least that's what I'm getting out of this. Aike, your post in particular made me want to actually learn electrical engineering so I could reuse those old microwaves and I fucking hate EE. I guess that's what I'm left with. How am I supposed to do this shit when I've been planning on a computer science career? Fuck.

I don't know...

I guess the answer is just be as self-reliant as I can?

I really have no idea what I'm doing here. ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=72422#Comment_72422 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=72422#Comment_72422 Sat, 02 Aug 2008 09:19:35 -0700 VoxDraconae
@WiseEyes- Exactly. (At least, that's my read on it) ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=72563#Comment_72563 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=72563#Comment_72563 Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:49:15 -0700 WiseEyes monologue from Clarkesworld.

Too bad I like cyberpunk = ( ]]> Steampunk cultural ethic http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=72727#Comment_72727 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=1412&Focus=72727#Comment_72727 Sun, 03 Aug 2008 10:14:25 -0700 bschory How am I supposed to do this shit when I've been planning on a computer science career? Fuck.

I've been having the same thought since I'm a programmer by trade, but since we're discussing a celebration of a style, and of DIY attitude, I think we can accommodate that quite well. It occurs to me that, setting the visual style aside for a moment, what we're talking about is home-brewing elegant machines. At the core of everything that is steampunk is you sitting down to esign something that runs elegantly, and then, once that's done, making it look beautiful and fit the aesthetic also. Also, take a look at the steampunk case mods. That's a great place to start in simply making your machine look, on the outside, like an elegant piece of machinery. Adding in a level I'm particularly fond of is making it visually suggest the function of the machine (tricky, but really cool looking if you get it right). This requires lots of dark wood and brass and clockwork of course.

When you're machine looks good on the outside, then make it elegant on the inside. Customize the crap out of, say, a linux distro to not only make the code inside incredibly elegant by the standards of computer science, but tweak all of the GUIs on your favorite application to give them a visual style that suits the aesthetic of you machine as well, without sacrificing any of the internal elegance of course. It seems to me that what we're really getting at is achieving and celebrating the pinnacle that industry is capable of, which is a very Victorian value, while reconnecting it to the tech and styles of that period that we're all so fond of.

Please anyone correct me if you think I'm wrong about this, or let me know if you have any other input.

A final note: In my life, at least, at the end of the day I really just want to go searching through some junk and make something beautiful that has absolutely nothing to do with computers. Sitting in front of the computer all day is just a bit much for me. While it seems possible to incorporate steampunk in to programming, I tend to find it much more appealing not to. ]]>