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      CommentAuthorJohn Smith
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007 edited
     (149.1)
    I hope everyone enjoyed the smart debate over in the Scans thread, but it did seem like arguing over whether scanning is stealing is a moot point.

    SO... in this thread let's talk more and specifically about how comics are and will change in the digital age. This is the ideal forum to talk about it, actually, because it's a forum run by one of the few professionals to experiment in A) floppies that aren't 22 pages and B) soon, webcomics.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJohn Smith
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007 edited
     (149.2)
    (mods, thanks for the move)

    Anyway-- what's next? I think that, fundamentally, the broader industry should embrace the pros of digital comics rather than dwell on the negatives. Here's what I propose:

    * a service (called iComics for the sake of discussion) owned and controlled by either an industry group or a third party that establishes a set format and distribution. Comics should cost whatever they would have cost minus the printing, shipping and LSC expenses-- honestly, I think $1.50 is the ideal price point. What do you think?

    * comics would be downloaded without traditional DRM. Utilizing something like Flash, the file format would be superior to PDFs and CBRs in resolution and overall quality. They'd flow better on a screen and, possibly, could feature options for sound transitions or a voice reading (completely unnecessary, but that's why they're called optional). Over time I could imagine some books could become online only and artists would begin to draw for a 1024x768 layout.

    * books would feature advertisements. As I said in the previous thread, the age of Google presents incredible marketing opportunities. I just picked up the latest Daredevil issue and flipped through it until I found an ad. It's a cross promotion for Intel processors and "Enemy Territory: Quake Wars." It's also an absolutely wasted advertisement-- I have a Nintendo Wii and I play an FPS a couple of times a year. Okay, I just flipped to another ad-- it's for a Conan game on PS3 and XBOX360. First, I'm not a big Conan fan, but if it were on the Wii I might be into it... but it's not. Another wasted ad. I could go on. Ad systems that learn about us are scary, and rightfully so... but they'll make the ads we do have to put up with much more relevant to our lives-- PLUS they'll provide an infinitely better value for the marketer because they would then know, via the site's signup procedure, what I'm interested in.

    * many people seem to be under the impression that digital comics won't catch on because they need a tactile experience, to possess and own something tangible. I think that may be true for a while, but not for terribly long. I think many minds will change once an improved file format is introduced along with a cheap, handheld device that functions like the Kindle but also displays color. Amazon is already sold out of those bad boys-- sure, it might not be able to reproduce Promethea #32 or ASBandR's eight page foldout, but it should probably be able to handle 99.5% of comics.

    * Something I mentioned early in the last thread is that iComics can also function as a virtual comic shop. Wiki material on characters, user reviews, bonus materials like scripts and sketches included, "You might also like..." type material. Done well, an iComics site would do its' own marketing, bring in an entirely new userbase.

    * And fundamentally, that's what's important. Dudes, I'm 25 and when I go to the LCS on Wednesdays I see maybe two or three people younger than me. It's been said before-- we're dying off. We've got to put material out there and get their eyeballs-- we know that they'll read manga, now we have to get them back onto American comics. To do that we've got to innovate.
  3.  (149.3)
    I think you may have said somewhere before that you don't see physical floppies being done away with. I agree. How do we cut the LCS into the digital comic mix. What prevents them from actively speaking out or working against icomics.
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      CommentAuthorAlan Tyson
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007
     (149.4)
    I think the key to well-received digital comics is in the handheld mobile device arena. In order to control that, comic companies and independent innovators are going to have to put forth some designs specifically made for reading comics, perhaps something like the aforementioned Kindle but optimized for comics (color screen, touch-screen capability for more tactile page-flipping). I plan to get a Kindle at some point, but I'd get one of these two (or, ideally, a second-generation Kindle that can handle both).

    I think this would be a great way for the mini-comics and 'zine scene to get in on the 21st Century, too - think about it, these guys make their comic, set up a wireless broadcast device in an area (a train station, a coffee shop, a smaller comic store), and people can download it for next to nothing - people who make minis aren't in it for the cash as it is, and this might actually get them a bigger percentage, as they would need to waste quarters at Kinko's anymore.

    As far as the western comic fanbase dying, I don't think that's the case. I got to school with hundreds of kids who want to make comics, not to mention read a lot of them religiously. The way I see it, manga actually kinda saved western comics after the collector's bubble popped - I know lots of people that got into books like Sandman, Transmetropolitan, Sin City, Hellblazer, etc. after they got tired with the slim pickings of the American manga market.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJohn Smith
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007
     (149.5)
    See, that's where the quandary comes in-- how do you bring these guys into the fold? None of them will be particularly psyched, and there's no reason they should be. I think that floppies will continue, but the clock could be ticking. Five, ten years? TPBs should continue-- as we've said before, people want a tangible product that they can page through, and for that TPBs make too much sense.

    I think the smart LCS guys are already diversifying. My local shop brought in Pokemon and YuGiOh years ago and even if comics dwindled they could still probably get by as a general genre shop. They'll also have statues, figures and back issues. And, yeah, I think floppies will still be available... it just won't make as much sense to buy them at $2.99 a pop.

    LCS guys, you're out there-- how could you see yourselves as a part of the digital future of this industry?
    •  
      CommentAuthorelwood
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007
     (149.6)
    1) I think LCSs are doomed as long as they focus on only comics, so why bother cutting them in? Traditional comics are moving to trade as the primary market because of book store, cell phones are "smart" and getting nice displays, and high speed bandwidth is becoming pervasive. LCSs can turn into boutique shops if they want to live, and spread out to areas other then comics. Otherwise let them go the way of the buggy whip.

    2) Stop thinking "comic book". That a medium, and if you are talking "digital comics" you are not thinking "comic book". Any stories told on a new medium will need to adapt to that medium.

    3) Computers are not the place for this. Alternative computing devices might be. What about phones? What about video game systems? What about a iPod touch? What about that Gameboy reader? Traditional computers? No.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJohn Smith
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007
     (149.7)
    @ Artemis-- referring to handhelds, exactly. A color Kindle might be a few years out but I think something like it is going to be necessary to really push things through, the same way the iPod was to iTunes (if you remember, iTunes was released something like six months before an iPod ever appeared).

    As far as the western fanbase goes, I may have stretched it a bit-- I don't think the American appetite for comics will ever completely cease, but I think the younger generation-- the eight year old kids playing the Wii --the world is going to be so different for them when they're my age. For all we know we could be in a completely paperless society by then, who knows. But we need to hook em. Hook the kids, increase your marketshare, make some money so that (if you're a company) you can commission more work by good creators.

    And yeah, as far as zines and self-published comics and magazines it could be a boon. Think about the impact of podcasts in iTunes. People are inventing entirely new business models out of that. All it would have to be is an RSS feed.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJohn Smith
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007
     (149.8)
    @ Elwood
    2) Stop thinking "comic book". That a medium, and if you are talking "digital comics" you are not thinking "comic book". Any stories told on a new medium will need to adapt to that medium.
    Absolutely right-- that's something I was going to wait to mention-- because we're talking about file sizes and not printed paper we can make our stories as long or as short as we like. Why 22 pages? In our new iComics file format we've got the ability to stretch the limits of sequential storytelling.

    3) Computers are not the place for this. Alternative computing devices might be. What about phones? What about video game systems? What about a iPod touch? What about that Gameboy reader? Traditional computers? No.
     I'd make a correction. Computers are not the ideal place for this, but alternative computing devices are. The Nintendo DS, PSP, iPhone, iPod touch-- these would all make great devices. Are hypothetical file format has to be portable, and these systems will need to support it.
  9.  (149.9)
    Is there enough money in comics to warrant the investment in time/technology it would require to make a convenient reader? This is an industry that has a hard time staying afloat dealing in paper - it seems like a quality reader (akin to the Kindle, say) would require some hope that there'll be a market for it. This would be a niche product for a niche market - even if everybody who regularly buys comics were to get one, that'd still be a small pool of potential consumers. I think that, realistically, you have to start with creating something that works on a computer monitor, and expect that portable reading devices will be homebrew applications on PSPs, Nintendo DS's, maybe the iPod Touch/iPhone, etc. Either that, or you have to wait around for an e-book reader that's PDF and color-ready, with dimensions suited to a comics page.

    It seems like the first thing to focus on would be to make a product that works on a computer screen. That includes finding a way to display a full page on the screen and keep it readable. Having to scroll on every page is pretty inconvenient, but breaking pages that were designed to be seen as they were printed into a format that works better on a computer screen (splitting them in half, maybe, or going panel-to-panel) diminishes the quality of the product.

    Something as simple as condensing the page - with an option to enlarge - while allowing the word balloon to grow when it's moused-over might work. The important thing here is that, if traditional comics are being sold online, they're suddenly competing with webcomics, which have two serious advantages. They're free, and they're designed for the medium in which they're appearing. On the other hand, by and large, this is a better product.

    I think the starting point is price. A subscription model - maybe not unlimited downloads, but something more like eMusic - might be preferable to a pay-per-issue service. It's not the same product as a printed comic, and even at half-price, I can't imagine I would ever buy one. Ignoring pirate scans and collected editions, I would definitely choose to buy half as many $3.00 print comics than twice as many $1.50 digital comics, if those were my only options.

    But none of those are my ideal. I download comics largely because I like to be able to keep up with the conversation regarding what's happening now, but dislike paying for them again when the trade is released. A solution that would be highly appealing to me would be pre-paying for a set number of issues of a certain title, at a relatively high price-point - say the first five issues of a regular series for $17 - and a free copy of the collected edition, if and when it's released. It means that the profit margin on the digital copy is significantly lower - around $0.40 per issue instead of the $1.50 suggested elswhere - but it's a lot of upfront money. I wouldn't object to a nominal upcharge in the cost of the trade if it meant that I got the issues digitally, as they were released. And I can't help but think the lower return on the digital copy would be made irrelevant by the fact that the distribution and production costs would be nominal, and you'd continue to make money on the print editions as usual.

    --d
  10.  (149.10)
    How do we prevent wide spread torrents of material without DRM?

    Everyone hates DRM yes, but I remain concerned of what to do to protect intended distribution mechanics without it. How to do we prevent legal downloads from becoming the exact situation we have now, but with the "benefit" the distro community does not even need to take the time to scan anything?
    •  
      CommentAuthorJohn Smith
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007
     (149.11)
    DRM's not my subject, but I think there's got to be a couple of smart things you could do to at least make it more difficult. What if it was like this-- an iComics file can only be shown in the iComics reader (which would be on computer desktops and all the portable devices we're talking about), and it would be a proprietary format-- you'd also need a per-user account. That way there's at least a little bit of monitoring of the trading and, if need be, some restricting of it. Example-- say I start downloading packs of iComics files from BitTorrent. When iComics sees that I've just opened the entire week's worth of new comics, none of which I paid for, then maybe it'll think about disallowing me from the service.

    Too Big Brother-ish? I dunno, there needs to be the happy medium. Like I said, DRM's not my subject. How about this-- since the distro guys are going to put everything out no matter what, at least if they're putting out iComics files instead of CBRs then the end user still has to look at ads-- and since they're using our player we can still get the usage info. Keep the ad revenue, chalk up the loss of the sale as a cost of doing business.
  12.  (149.12)
    I wouldn't worry about DRM anyway - if the iComics files are restricted, then the scanners will just keep scanning. The worst case scenario with DRM-free files is that scanners have more free time on Wednesdays. No need to turn out an inferior product just to avoid that one.

    --d
    •  
      CommentAuthorJohn Smith
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007 edited
     (149.13)
    @ dansolomon -- Exactly right. And you know, the more I think about it the more I like the idea of them trading iComics files that force them to look at ads.

    Responding to your post above, I think the physical player will come from outside the comic industry-- that's why I've selected the hypothetical Kindle II. It needs to be less than $200, offer color and maybe even a touchscreen. That said, it might be a few years away.

    And good point on the webcomics. As far as the cost, I don't know. I've been pondering the difference between an iTunes style setup versus a Napster subscription model and I'm unclear. What are other folks' thoughts?
  14.  (149.14)
    Good points both.

    I myself favor a merger of purchase and a subscription system. After a certain number of months a book is added to an archive in addition to being offered on its own, and the archive works like marvel new system - a small flat fee and you get everything.

    You can have new books right away for a small fee ($1 to $1.50) and access vast stacks of older books for a fixed monthly fee ($10). Or go back and buy the single issue you want to own. You could combine the services, charge $10 a month and provide 10 comics book downloads each month as well as archive access.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJohn Smith
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007
     (149.15)
    Yeah. They've got no reason not to offer archives for a fixed monthly. Much of that IP belongs to them straightup, with only mostly the stuff produced in the last twenty years due for a royalty. Once it's been scanned your work is over with-- just put it out.
  16.  (149.16)
    How do we prevent wide spread torrents of material without DRM?

    You can't. However, Apple has only sold a Billion songs, all of which can easily have the DRM stripped out and uploaded.

    You cannot prevent piracy or copying of legal downloads. If you can see it on your screen, you can copy it, and re-upload it.

    Forget subscription model. People want to own the digicomic, not rent it.

    Downloaded to computer, dropped on your PDA, cellphone, ipod is where it's going to go.

    Last year, Japanese consumers spent an estimated $20 million to view manga on handsets, according to Tokyo research firm Impress R&D. Manga now accounts for half the books that publishers sell for cell phones. "Our sites sell a combined 10 million episodes every month," says Katsuyuki Kobayashi, a deputy general manager at NTT Solmare, which runs the Comic-I and Comic C'moA sites, Japan's biggest online stores for cell-phone comics.
    http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/apr2007/gb20070409_610225.htm

    Flash isn't good enough - it's not on the majority of hand-helds.... but Quicktime and video is. You could easily fit an entire issue into a 4-5 MB video at a decent enough size and resolution to read/watch on TV, computer and portable devices.

    I think copying the itunes model is the way to go, but with two formats.... 4x3, and widescreen, which will cover just about every shape and size of screen on portables.
  17.  (149.17)
    You also have strong DRM on an archive by definition, which allows a constant profit stream on old IP in a failry - never certainly - safe way.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAlan Tyson
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007
     (149.18)
    At some point, a very near one I think, the "average" personal computer WILL BE a mobile device. Something maybe a bit bigger than a Kindle with wireless internet capability, phone capability, a music player, word processor, and enough memory and processing power to run them all (which, when you consider how much crap you can cram on an iPod, that's not that much). Until that time, I think innovators will need to attack this form both angles - the mobile device angle and the home computer angle.

    I don't think getting a younger generation into comics will be that hard, we just need to make stuff for that age group, or rather, we need to make better stuff for that age group. Comics needs a Harry Potter, I guess is what I'm trying to say - that very series proved that anglophone children have the reading comprehension and attention span for an epic series of books, something a lot of people though had died out with the Narnia stories. And kids are getting better at technology all the time - as annoying as it is, it's a fascinating phenomenon to walk into a classroom as see how many kids have Nokias and Motorolas strapped to their backpacks. Pretty soon, classrooms are going to go digital, and when they do, kids in the 8-12 age range will do what the generation before mine did - read comics when they're supposed to be doing their homework. That is, if we make it available to them, and by we, I mean both creators and current readers of comics. Kids comics doesn't have to mean Spongebob Squarepants - the success of "kid's shows" like Avatar, and the comics that Nickelodeon put out based on them, is further proof that if you give kids something to read and don't assume they are idiots, chances are they are going to enjoy it.

    I honestly have no opinion on the pricing and copyrighting issue, as I don't have the knowledge and experience with such things to jump into an argument about it.
  19.  (149.19)
    I do not think you could pry Manga away from the younger generation with a fork lift.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJohn Smith
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007
     (149.20)
    @ Mark-- Indeed, Flash isn't on most devices. I should have been more clear-- I didn't specifically mean Flash, just something Flash-like in its' final product, something more than just archived images that can be scrolled through. Anyway, if it wound up being in Flash it would be alright-- it may not be on most mobile devices now but it will be.

    Also, I dunno about a video of a comic. Sometimes I'm a very fast reader and just like to skim through things, other times I linger and take things in and read and reread.

    That BusinessWeek link, I must say, is very interesting.

    The average e-comics buyer spends roughly $15 a month, buying up several episodes. For an episode that runs about 10 pages, consumers pay anywhere from 25ยข (in black-and-white) to $1 (color). That's roughly comparable to the thick weekly magazines, which normally have 10 episodes per issue and sell for around $3.

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