Not signed in (Sign In)
-
Options
Categories
- Main Junction
- London Zoo
- Warren's Pub Table
- FREAKANGELS
- Music
- Printheads
- Art And Moving Pictures
- Internet
- Mad Science
- Fantastika!: SF & The Weird
- Blogs
Welcome, Guest
Vanilla is a product of Lussumo:
Documentation and Support.
Internet: [Closed] iComics: How do we reinvent comics in the digital age?
Bottom of Page-
-
CommentAuthorJohn Smith
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
reasonableman: So, how do I integrate my physical comics collection into iComics? I really don't want to have to buy all my comics over again. I could scan my comics but that is a real hassle and there are already people out there who are much better at it. But going that route is illegal, and thus unacceptable.
You don't. You can pull them up and read them anytime you like. That said, there's another reason to make archives a flat fee and make access unlimited. -
-
Pullbox Online already does this in .cbr, .cbz and .pdf formats, and I use them often for titles that I like. All we need right now is for the major publishers to start using this established service as well. They could start with Omnibus releases ala Shonen Jump or like the old school Blue Ribbon Digests to test the waters. I have no idea how much profit Pullbox Online makes from each sale, but they are the only ones I know of currently serving to that market.
Many paper venues will be dead or dying in ten to fifteen years, maybe even earlier than that once a good open source $99 e-book reader hits the market. -
-
CommentAuthorJohn Smith
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
Wow, I hadn't heard of PullboxOnline. Upon looking at their site and reading a few interviews with Josh Blaylock it seems that over the last year they've been putting into action what we've been talking about the last few days. The site's design, though, is a bit lacking, and could use a jazzing up. Also, from first glance it looks like they may not have posted anything since September.
Problem is, man, I hadn't heard of PullboxOnline. I read Newsarama and CBR every day. I scan Blog@Newsarama, Heidi MacDonald and Comics Worth Reading daily. I have been to two major comic conventions this year... and I'd never heard of it. Mind you, I don't read any of the books listed so it's not as though I'd have seen some DDP or IDW cross promotion, but still... shit, how have I not heard about it?
Perhaps this is a prime example of how difficult this concept may turn out to be, and why it may need to be a venture that has the backing of at least one of the two biggies-- and if not DC or Marvel, at least DH and Image. -
-
- CommentAuthorTechnocratJT
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
Tele, your quoting Brad not me. (Not a big deal, but not my words either) -
- CommentAuthorGregCarter
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
First of all, there will always be people who just want to read a free comic. And they will. Period. It's too easy to do and too hard to stop. What do you do about them? Forget them and focus on the people that will give you money for comics. There will always be cheapskates who would rather steal than pay for comics. Much like every other product. Fuck 'em. Maybe they'll show it to someone who WILL pay.
There are two parts to the technology issue - what will work right now, and looking in the crystal ball for the future. Focusing on what works right now will make the picture in the crystal ball clearer. Making comics to fit certain devices is, of course, one way to do it. But then you are limited to that device. (I'm talking in the short term, remember). So the main problem is - what devices are used the most and how can we make what we have (formatted for print) work on them. An ideal solution would be for the new LCD monitors to automatically adjust when you spin them into portrait orientation ala the iPhone. But we don't have that yet. So you either chop up the comic or people scroll. Sorry folks, but I have no sympathy for someone who doesn't want to scroll in one direction. It's like not wanting to read a comic in book format because you have to use two hands - one to hold it and one to turn the pages. Scrolling in two directions? Yeah, I'm with you on that. You see very, very few webcomics that do that. Turns out the infinite canvas is an infinite pain in the ass to read. So first focus is taking the traditional comic and slapping it on a computer screen as best you can. Whether it's a simple WordPress system or fancy-schmancy software like Zuda uses.
As far as business model, looking to the successful webcomics is a great idea. And,I hate to say this out loud, but the comic functions as a loss-leader item to get people to the site. That's not a devaluation of the comic, just the delivery system. It's too late in the game to get large numbers of people to pay just to read the comic online. You let them have the basic comic at no charge. You release the comic slowly as a teaser. Then you have advertising, merchandise, subscriptions for bonus content, print versions, any number or options for making actual, real, spendable money. Wowio is working pretty well, and so are other very low-cost very high-quality downloads. Not in huge numbers but I know many happy with Wowio webcomic creators. This is where the corporate comics can dangle huge archives for subscription value (like Marvel is doing.) And with new comics, imagine if you could see a layered version, click on just pencils, flat colors, finished colors, with and without text. Make it very easy to do that on the site, in some way that will be harder to kludge off the site. I'm not technological enough to know how to do it, but it shouldn't be too hard, CSS or XML or IHOP - one of those. Remember that anything you give them digitally will be pirated. Don't put all your eggs in that basket, have physical items too. Or have a LOT of content that make it easier to go to the site and look at it than find and download it all through multiple torrents. You can't beat the pirates on price, so beat them with ease of use, types of content, and stuff you simply can't download to a computer.
This will work much better in the short term for the non-big-two comics, because that audience is firmly entrenched in buying the books in the stores. Plus they need to make so much more money because of the number of people involved in creating the comics - pencilers, inkers, colorists, letterers, editors, etc. etc. etc.
The near term will be a synergy of web and print releasing. Print isn't going away any time soon unless some digital killer app suddenly appears. Check out what Ambrosia Publishing is doing for a great example of that synergy. -
I think Pullbox Online needs a couple of the big indie publishers to sign on in order to reach critical mass, places like say Image, Avatar, and Dynamite.
Yeah the content updates have fallen behind, they only have issue #1 of Drafted up there right now, but the quality of the downloads is excellent and no bloody DRM.
Zuda looks nice but its a completely different model, same goes for the Marvel experiment. I personally think Zuda would have worked a lot better with Flashpaper. And I'd love it if the Marvel comics supported the Hewlett Packard blog printing backend that powers Ars Technica and Techcrunch. -
DRM or proprietary format hasn't solved the problem for the music industry, nor for the film industry. Why would it solve anything for the Comic industry? In the end if someone wants to steal the stuff, they will.
I have two problems with floppies: a) they are a pain to store and b) they are a pain to collect. I know people that would instantly have my flogged on grounds of blasphemy for such a statement, but it is true. I actually have managed to collect only two complete series of floppies, Transmet and Global Frequency. And that was hard for me, other than that I want TPB, because they are bigger, easier to manage, easier to keep track of, store, buy etc.
Unless you have grown up with the idea of floppies, (and in many cases, like my own, even when you have grown up with them) there is a huge resistance to the whole concept of them. Getting kids to buy a manga book or the TPB is relatively easy, and no, I dont think there is a cultural problem with American comics not being accepted. But getting them to go through a weekly or monthly rigmarole of buying a stack of floppies is not realistic. Additionally, if I now decided to go and start reading comic XYZ, if it is not offered in TPB, I am faced with the problem of finding every last issue, some of which are nowhere to be found ever. Why, as a reader, should I be forced to go on a treasure hunting expedition in the vast jungles of the comic book underground and the murky depths of floppy bins in order to find lost numbers so my plot line doesnt have gaping holes in it?
Digital means completely circumvent this problem. I have the entire series of transmet in floppies and also again in TBP (which I generally gave to people to read). In storage. On another continent. I here have the scans, because while paper is nice, it is a big pain in the arse, unless it is charmin'. I would buy a lot more comics if it didnt mean being stuck with these paper booklets that I love to read, but then have no idea what to do with.
So, in terms of those floppies, I would bet you are not losing sales by providing digital copies, you are expanding them. Give me a TPB, I'll buy it. Give me a digital version of it, I'll buy it. Force me to collect 200 billion little paper things that I'll lose or require vast storage mechanisms and mad scientist archival systems to manage, I can't do it. I also read most often when I'm on a plane or train or bus or in hotels in ulaan bator or somewhere. I dont want to carry stuff.. I have my laptop. If I have a free hour at university, I dont want to drag around MORE paper, I have a laptop. Its all about ease of use. -
Hello aike, would you be interested in iComics bundled with trades? I can see that as the next step here. Similar to including digital copies with HD-DVDs.
-
I would buy a lot more comics if it didnt mean being stuck with these paper booklets that I love to read, but then have no idea what to do with.
Good point; Much like my parents massive collection of National Geographic, I too don't know what to do with all my floppies. I can't bring myself to throw them away, most of the aren't in selling condition, and fuck if I can ever find that one comics I actually wanna read again amongst the piles of stored crap. Yet again, good reasons for everything moving to digital and tpb.
The HEROES hardcover has been selling rather well. Now, naturally it's a tv tie-in and that gets a lot of crowd, but it's still a 30$ hardcover of material that is freely available online off NBCs website. But people still buy it. I see this as a good sign. -
@[n]JIN: Well, given the choice I probably would just buy the digital version, but yes, given the option to buy a trade with a digital version included for a few bucks more, I would, absolutely.
@Telecart: I think the national geographic collection is a perfect correlation. I love NG, and I still can enjoy flipping through ancient copies for the photography and even some of the articles, but... who wants shelves of NGs sitting around? So they usually end up somewhere unreachable and never looked at.
I saw a collected DVD of all the MAD magazine issues ever, and I immediately had to get it. I would never go out and buy all the issues in paper, even if the cost were identical. I am still hoping there will someday be a digital anthology of the 2000ADs...I would pay good money for that... -
-
CommentAuthorJamie Coville
- CommentTimeDec 8th 2007
By the way, comics were 10 cents in 1938. Newsstand comics had been 10 cents since 1922 if you want to go back that far. While a few publishers did try a 5 cent comic here and there, they didn't do well enough to continue. I had written up a bit about price increases in print material but I decided against drifting the thread. -
-
something that needs to be recognized is that unless something huge changes digital comics are going to remain a niche. The biggest threat in terms of medium to the comic book is the trade paperback, and has been for some time.
Digital comics will never entirely take the place of regular comics. Even if the digital comic was cheaper and more readily available, the majority of comic readers would (in my opinion) still go for the paper product as long as that was a choice. As it stands right now, I drive for an hour and lay down 30-40 bucks for something I could download in 10 minutes from half a dozen torrent sites for free. I do so partly because I don't want the comic book store or the comic book company to lose out on the money but mostly because of the combination of the feel of the actual book itself, and how nice it is to have a comic book store where you know the staff, have a pull list, and can chat for half an hour about how fucking dumb the end of One More Day was when you're picking up your books. The digital format doesn't have that going for it. It has a lot of advantages the print format doesn't, of course (storage, you can find any comic you're looking for, you can keep track of the ones you have, etc), and it will have its place, but I doubt there will ever be a point where comic readers don't want comic books.
That said, there are several points where I can see digital comics being a great thing in terms of enhancing the experience of the reader, especially if they head in these directions:
1) exposure to new titles. When you're downloading your copy of Captain America, a neat feature might be a part of the download screen that points out (for example) all other titles he appears in that came out today or last week, or all other Ed Brubaker titles that are coming out. You could even set the buying site up to let you know when titles that meet particular criteria are released (for example, any titles about world war II, or vampires, or vampires in World War II). I know that as a consumer I'll be much more willing to try out a 99 cent title to see if it's any good than dropping 3 dollars on a title I might hate.
2) availability of back issues. This may be the biggest advantage digital comics will have. If issue 1 came out 5 weeks ago and you can't find it anywhere, you can find it online and get caught up. I managed, through being on holiday, to miss issue 1 of batman and the Outsiders, and my LCS didn't have it, so I was wary about buying the second issue. In the age of digital comics I would probably buy the issue, get home, and then buy issue 1 to read online. Actually, this leads me into something that I really wish digital comics could do:
3) Print on demand back issues. This for me would be the best way to combine what is great about both fields. It might be expensive to set up, but it should in theory be possible to offer any title in the archive for one fee for an online version, and then for a slightly higher fee as a printed version. let's say 99 cents for online or 2.99 for printed. And - and this is where I think my idea has some real merit - you can either pay a delivery charge to get it sent to your house, or pick it up from your local comic store for free. That could be how you deal your comic shop in on this. They will still be receiving comics as they normally would, so it should technically be possible for DC or whoever to send them specially ordered back issues in with their regular order. -
- CommentAuthorjames pearson
- CommentTimeJan 17th 2008
Hi.
I'm a professional abstract painter who began drawing from comics as a child in the early 70's.
The digital age of comics isn't coming, it's already here. The comic companies can repeat the mistakes of the music industry or they can embrace new technology and adapt.
I began downloading and reading digital comics on my laptop years ago - a combination of free comics, torrents of classics I can't find and eventually, scans of my own collection. I still have a large collection of paper comics but much prefer digital for access and organization.
The ipod touch isn't an ideal format but it's photo viewer DOES provide some great "tactile" features that comic readers want like page-flipping and pinch-zooming. I'd like to see a larger screened device from Apple to better read my existing collection but comic makers should consider creating new work that reads well on the ipod / iphone screen size.
As for distribution, itunes already has the existing infrastructure so I don't understand the need to develop a new one.
The will always be pricing and again, itunes has established a precedent. At .99 ANYONE can afford a new book. That's key because kids ARE NOT collectors. They are readers and artists who are interested in CONTENT over presentation.
So there it is, present new books with no DRM in jpeg folders, pdf or web (java) packages and make them available from itunes for .99. Problem solved. New market established. Money for everyone. Limited piracy. -
@james pearson
I'd like to see a larger screened device from Apple to better read my existing collection
Not multi-touch but have you seen this:
ModBook -
- CommentAuthorjames pearson
- CommentTimeJan 17th 2008
Thanks.
The modbook is novel but overpriced and more than necessary for most CONSUMERS of media. The ipod touch has the right combination of feature for price. Over time, we'll see a less expensive entry level as flash memory prices come down. It should be obvious to everyone that Apple will eventually integrate their touch screen interface into the entire product line.
It's worth repeating that Marvel has admitted to making less than 10% of it's profit from paper comics. The remaining 90% is liscensing. They would have closed their doors years ago if that weren't the case.
According to these articles:
http://flashbackuniverse.blogspot.com/2008/01/paper-comic-deathwatch-2.html
http://flashbackuniverse.blogspot.com/2008/01/friday-double-shot-2-paper-comic.html
Marvel hasn't got long to embrace some standardized DRM FREE digital distribution. Meanwhile, the subscription service they are trying is NOT going to cut it. It's just more preaching to the choir.
The lesson here is that Marvel really doesn’t have to charge as much for comics as it does. They could dramatically increase readership by deferring production costs with digital downloads via itunes and standardizing pricing at .99. The increased readership, in turn, pays far more for movie tickets, t-shirts, mugs, toys and happy meals.
The ball really is in their court. Given the meltdown in printing, we could see a major move very soon. -
sorry for dragging this back from it's grave
i admit i download comics,that being said i've been a comic collector for the past 15 years.
why do i download comics? because
1)accessibility - if my comics are in the basement of my parents house and I'm in university or work on the other side of the country i can't read them
2)searchability - digital comics can have metadata attached to them,so i can quickly find that issue that loophole appeared in
3)collectability - there are some people out there that think everytime you touch a comic book it's value decreases,heck there are even people that believe the only way to get a "mint 10.0" comic is to take it directly off the printing press before it gets boxed,shipped,unboxed,and put on a comic shelf.
4)recoverability - what happens if my apartment burns to the ground,paper comics + fire is the same as lighting a stack of paper money on fire,digital comics are easier to recover from a fire if you backed them up to dvd or bluray disc and mailed to you parents (or other 3rd party) every other month .
on a side note: i think it's ridiculous that comic prices are so high in canada when the majority of (north american) comics are printed in canada,shipped to diamond in the states,and then shipped to comic stores back in canada.digital comics have no printing costs and no mindless shipping back and forth costs.