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  1.  (1641.1)
    Just picked up a copy of Transhuman (comic) and it was a pretty good read. Looking forward to the rest of the series and all that. Brings up an interesting point that I've had debates over before, and wonder what you all might have to say on it. Which route do you think we'll go - genetic or cybernetic enhancements? Obviously a false dichotomy, but I'm sure we'll tend more towards one than the other.

    Personally, I think while people will be more tempted to go the genetic engineering route, cybernetic enhancements are a safer and more ethical route. Happy to explain why when I have more time and if it's requested.
  2.  (1641.2)
    It's past 3 am here, I am almost drunk out of mind, refusing to complete my website and smoking one of my last cigarettes of the day.
    So, here it is. All the stuff you didn't actually ask for.
    I am certain that you were looking for an interesting discussion of sorts, but, since I am well beyond discussing things on a purely theoretical and, shall we say, friendly level of conversation, I will provide you with none of it and leave said better human acts of generosity with my fellow, more apt humans.

    Me, on a personal, rum and wodka kind of level, I do not think that we will travel either road. Ever.
    I remember Götz von Berlichingen and his Iron Hand, I remember it being rendered as the first prosthetic device in documented history (which cannot reflect actual present gone past), I remember putting the cyber into the punk, I remember embedding animal dna into our own dna for the sheer fuck of it (albeit both the cyber- enhancements and the genetic engineering were little more than cosmetic surgeries for the rich and rad.. in a fictual setting); I remember it all too well on a level of "nice if possible" and I will have none of it, not anymore.
    I will not use certain phrases, although these phrases would transport my resentment towards both ideas in a better way; I will avoid them, since, like with snide remarks, they have grown old and dull due to over-abuse and having become common language.

    Instead I will come up front: it is all bullshit.
    Both of it.
    Certainly I could mention that, if the proper technology should become available (not during my own life), said technology would and will be available to the ones providing the proper money only.
    Of course I could cite other, both more occult and obscure observations on the nature of being human (or humane) when it comes to altered states of mind (shamanism and drugs come to mind) and being and how the constitution and health of the body does affect the mind of a person (a thing that has been mentioned in the cyberpunk- genre and broadened with the concept of cyber-psychosis), but I do not see a point in actually siding with knowledge that is legion.

    Instead, in my very pretty eyes, all of this is pure bullshit.
    Understand that I am not attacking you or your point of view; I am too old, too tainted and too corrupted by what I have come to understand for that. I do not know you and I do not understand what makes you think that we, as a species, as a whole, would prefer one impossibility over the other.

    I seem to be here for one reason only: to tell people that neither cybernetic surgery (or enhancements, since I am well aware of the fact of especially men imagining themselves as some kind of superhero of sorts) nor genetic engineering (out of the same reason of megalomania that applies to.. a cyberneic cock) will be parts of our future as species, much less part of our individual future.

    Götz has been a very long time ago, a thing that applies to molecular genetics as well, if we see them in the context of the timeframe of the science it sprung from originally.
    I appreciate, on a personal level, that you seem to be interested in the future of mankind; yet, judging from what I represent, it seems to me that you are one of the folks someone else (someone like me) would render a so-called 'power-gamer'.

    So, in essence and to be true to the
    tl;dr : none of it is safe, we lack information that can be cross-referenced, it is all theoretical; kill it with fire.
  3.  (1641.3)
    I think while people will be more tempted to go the genetic engineering route

    Yes. The Brits have been busy lately.
    •  
      CommentAuthormuse hick
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008
     (1641.4)
    @ spiraltwist the debate raging on under that article is nutty.
    • CommentAuthorRenThing
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008
     (1641.5)
    @spiraltwist

    From the comments in the link you posted:
    I Can't Wait to Make My Own Milk!!!

    Here Comes the Milk Man!!!!

    Chris, Hosuton, Texas


    *sigh*
    • CommentAuthorRenThing
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008
     (1641.6)
    And another stunning example of human intelligence from the comments:

    "Woman gives birth to... Bigfoot??" And hybrids will be appearing all over the place.

    Nik, Florida,


    Right...because some woman is going to unknowingly be injected with a human/animal hybrid fetus and be totally surprised that she's A) pregnant and B) when she goes into labor the doctor tells her, "Take a look at your beautiful...llama."
    •  
      CommentAuthorm1k3y
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008
     (1641.7)
    i think people will mix'n'match.. depending on what's actually functional over time..

    i doubt we're gonna get awesome advances from DNA hacking straight away..
    but if they can make small advances.. prolly more in the life-extension areas..
    AND fashion - i heard on the RU Sirius show a while ago that one of the easiest DNA hacks is to change your skin pigment!

    also - i can see the DNA hacking happening more with the next-gens, as people have the ability to tweak the intelligence of their unborn
    then we're headed straight into our PostHuman Future

    in the meantime, people start replacing their failing organs with "cyber" ones
    which, obviously is the present.. what with the bionic ears and pacemakers
    the Boomers will be the leading edge here.. since (atleast in my country) they have the majority of the wealth
    and seem hell-bent on staying in power as long as they can! hence will not settle for the "pallative" care they've established for this parents,
    but will go for any and all tech that will keep the Grey Army's ranks up
    (yay for the coming Generational Wars)
  4.  (1641.8)
    I wasn't interested in the comments, just the article.

    I didn't bother to read the comments because I knew they'd be exactly like what has been cross-posted : AKA waste of my time.
  5.  (1641.9)
    I want injectable nano-bots that will repair internal damage and remove cancers, clots, and other nasties, and then leave the body via the natural routes. They could also increase the number of pathways between one's brain lobes and exercize your abdominals while you sit at your computer and look at porn.
  6.  (1641.10)
    Naturally, the nano-bots should also help with masturbation. Maybe shoot soundwaves at a man's prostate.
  7.  (1641.11)
    the nanobots would also make good use of ladies' g-spots. now that i think of it, they could stimulate one's nerves in such a way as to to make you feel damn near anything. the possibilities are limitless. since it's so naturally linked to porn, someone will invent them forthwith.
    • CommentAuthorNecros
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008
     (1641.12)
    Well for what it is worth, I think as the technologies develop, we will start using both of them in conjunction with each other. Why set up a divide when you can have a genetically enhanced super soldier with bionics.
    •  
      CommentAuthorglukkake
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008
     (1641.13)
    With so much of the world operating via religion, I doubt we'll see genetic engineering being freely dosed out to the general public. Along with the fact that it's really, really expensive to do the things that they do. Insurance will not cover you to give your child purple, glowing eyes, gills and a vestigial tail.

    Cybernetic enhancement I can see happening, but it'll still all land in the "practical" form. Replacement limbs for ones you've lost and that don't do much more than mimic the one you lost.

    As interesting and as much potential as a lot of the information that has been released is, I don't foresee much of it being allowed to live up to its potential out of an irrational fear of changing the human body. Hell, look at how folks try to ban body modifications from tattoos to surgical mods.
  8.  (1641.14)
    @Danny Djeljosevic: reminded me of the man putting maggots on his dick.. for the fuck of it.

    I really don't see either cyberpunk or biopunk ever happening. It's still the sad old 'how do you picture the future to be'; we don't have hovering airships that dispense planes, now do we?
  9.  (1641.15)
    I can imagine both bio and cyber engineering going down the same route as cosmetic surgery... When it comes to body modification, while there will always be people pushing boundaries of the field, but does anybody else imagine the super future incarnations going down the equivalent 'blonde hair big tits' route if it was introduced into the semi-
    Mainstream?

    Does it worry anyone that, especially with bio, these generic super popular traits would come to dominate the gene pool? While clearly the possibilities are endless, I guess I just dont trust the general masses with the future evolutionary development of the human race...
  10.  (1641.16)
    Since evolution is just about creating something that is best suited for survival in a given environment, it shouldn't be much of a surprise if most people would decide to 'enhance' themselves in a very stereotypical way (blue eyes, beard, two cocks next to each other above a vagina..);
    @Brad McLoughlin: gene- pool? What gene- pool?
    Are you hinting at some kind of diversity being endangered which doesn't even exist at all in the first place?
  11.  (1641.17)
    There's a thought that crossed my mind while doing some research on the body modification- 'culture':
    never heard of someone actually messing with his or her vocal chords on purpose, making one's voice deeper or higher as a means of coming closer to your 'real you' (as far as I understand, that is the body mod- credo.. coming closer to what you picture yourself to be).

    So, whatever the future might bring, it will always be something very cosmetic.
    Somehow changing one's voice permanently is very close to voluntarily being subjected to brain damage, to be closer to whatever one tries to be.. hmm.. I am great when I am incoherent. Time for rum.
  12.  (1641.18)
    @ wedge

    The way I see it, its one thing for a woman to enlarge her breasts, or oprah winfrey to bleach her skin despite being the role model for race relations for middle America. Its anpther thing to apply these narrow minded choices to a genetic level, not only reducing the opportunities for diversity to occur, but also to be accepted by the world at large. Evolutionary development was probably the wrong choice of words, but variety is the spice of life and anything that not only takes away from that right now, let alone forcing it on future generations, needs some serious thought.
    • CommentAuthor1599008689
    • CommentTimeApr 3rd 2008 edited
     (1641.19)
    @Brad McLoughlin: good point. Apparently since my background and my way of thinking have been damaged in certain ways, it didn't occur to me that some people do certain things as a sort of fashion statement and for reasons of group identification.
    Spandex comes to mind. Goths, bleached hair, tanned skind and so forth.

    So, if one actually can do something that is very close to creating a Second Life- avatar, what will his or her choices be, then?
    I salute your, sir.

    The idea is strangely appealing; if each one of us would've been given the chance to utterly change the way we look, we act, we talk, we walk, we think (so, in essence, taking a deck of poker cards and being allowed to draw the cards we want to have as our hand), what would we do if we could be our own Prometheus?
    Does having a certain amount of melanine in our skin make our lives easier job-wise?
    What about eye-shape and -colour?

    It's pretty close to power-gaming in a roleplaying game, but the repercussions culturewise are vastly more interesting.
    How many people would decide to become cyberpunk's Poser- Gangs (looking exactly like a certain person)?
    How many people would stop looking like a human being altogether ?

    How would a genetic (or even cybernetic) change actually affect our way of perceiving our own personality and the people around us?

    Hmm.. that reminds of the post-humanistic term of "secular immortality", referring to a society not only divided into rich and poor, but also into healthy and unhealthy and genetically altered vs "free-born" and, at last, into immortal and mortal.

    Apparently my cynicism was misdirected; instead of brooding over whether or not either science will be applied during our lifetime, I should pay more mind to how exactly the application of either could fuck this place up forever.
    Thanks for the heads- up.
    •  
      CommentAuthorm1k3y
    • CommentTimeApr 4th 2008
     (1641.20)
    "while you wait for the real future you think you're owed, you fuck around with your bodies like they were virtual-world avatars. you add things to them. you make them better. you threat them like characters to be improved and you grind them" - Doktor Sleepless#1