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      CommentAuthorcurb
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008
     (1654.1)
    Seeing as the Torchwood thread seems to be running and running..

    Series 4 of the 'new' Who, starts on Saturday. Who's looking forward to it? Who (like me) is hoping it'll be good, but is expecting it to be even patchier than the last series? Is it still an important sci fi show, if it ever really was? Is it more than 'just a kids show? Discuss.
  1.  (1654.2)
    I have a problem in that every time I see Catherine Tate I want to kick my TV until it is individual atoms.

    This may hinder my enjoyment.
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      CommentAuthorm1k3y
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008
     (1654.3)
    @alwayscrashing

    exactly.. she's a damn fish-wife in my eyes.. further proof that Russel T needs to hand over the reigns already
    - exhibit A being Kylie and the Christmas Special in general

    only thing keeping me going is:
    the rumor that ALL his companions (Capt Jack, Martha.. and even Rose) might be back for the last few eps
    • CommentAuthorSasha_mak
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008
     (1654.4)
    I thought series 3 was great, except for the last episode, which was just riddled with cliches and lazy writing.
  2.  (1654.5)
    That is a very true rumour.


    The last series was a frightful mess. The home stretch would've been excellent, but the finale totally killed it by being a horribly written cop-out. The Doctor became Dobby the House Elf and Martha saved the day by, what, MAGIC? Yeah, fuck off. And the Christmas one was abysmal.

    I'm not going to bother this year. I hate Davies' writing, I detest Catherine Tate, and aside from last years Moffat episode, nothing has been anywhere near as good as the Eccleston run.
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      CommentAuthorm1k3y
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008
     (1654.6)
    @ Old Moon Face

    yes, Blink was one of the best 42mins of tv last year. And Jekyll the clearly best show.
    Davies should give Steven Moffat the keys, before he ruins it for everyone.
  3.  (1654.7)
    i can't watch the 'new' who. the bloody music grates me. you'd think in the 50th anniversary of the radiophonic workshop (yesterday, i believe) they'd get better music as opposed to the bland orchestrations that serve no real purpose other than to annoy the shit out of me. and to think bbc wales only got the gig as they all thought it'd die a death and sink without a trace. that tate woman is as funny as having a cystoscope inserted. am I fucking bothered ? i might take up the bloke form round the corner's offer of several boxes of 2000ad instead.
  4.  (1654.8)
    I think the best thing they could do would be to stop planning it all around a horribly contrived and ill-thought-out deus-ex-machina season finale. The big Dalek-Cyberman dust-off at the end of season 2 was fun, but the end of the first and third were dreadful. There were some very good individual stories in all three seasons - mostly Moffat's - and very few real stinkers, but attempting to tie them all together with those awful finales distracts attention from how good the good episodes were. "Blink" was the best story in all three seasons so far.

    I'll be a dissenting voice on the companions too. Martha, while undeniably pretty, is just another bland male-fanboy-written "ideal woman who can do anything if she'd only believe in herself" character. Catherine Tate's character in last year's Christmas special was funny, had character flaws, and didn't worship the Doctor, which is refreshing. More of that sort of thing, I say.
  5.  (1654.9)
    I'm looking forward to it, and to Tate, if only because she won't be going all doe-eyed lovey-dovey over the Doctor. Might be nice to have someone to argue with the Doctor rather than agree open-mouthed to pretty much everything he says.

    That said, it's a kids programme and I watch it with that frame of reference in mind.

    Fuck it, I just find it *fun*
  6.  (1654.10)
    As a Colonial, I knew nothing of this "Catherine Tate" creature until she shimmied and screeched her way through the Christmas special.

    There was some speculation after watching it that she was a relative of Davies or perhaps some really sublime British Dame of the theater and her performance was not unlike Charlize Theron turning herself into a trucker prostitute for "Monster".

    Now she's back for a whole fucking year?

    Perhaps she has something on the people at the production office. Video of Davies' annual kitten BBQ? Or perhaps Stephen Moffat's secret livejournal filled with nothing but Mickey and Jack yaoi fiction?

    Patrick: I agree, it would be nice to have a character who wan't either in love with the Doctor or in total awe of him, but considering he's a time-traveling 900-year old demi-god the range of responses, at least at first, is pretty narrow. I liked some of the old companions who were trapped with the Doctor or saw him as a means of escape. What I'd really like to see (engage fan wish machine idiocy) is a companion with an agenda. Not just a one off like the kid in the Eccleston run, but someone who feigns fandom/love/worship for a purpose.That's pretty much my hope with the Tate thing, some kind of spin on the story.

    But it's a kiddie show and she's a loud funny shrieky lady.

    I'm heartened to see Moffat is writing a two-parter though. He always manages to deliver something sharp and new.
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      CommentAuthorm1k3y
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008
     (1654.11)
    @orwellseyes

    a Moffat two-parter.. awesome! that's something to look forward too..
    hopefully it coincides with another reappearance of the Who'version of Capt Jack.. the good one!
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      CommentAuthorMalsain
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008 edited
     (1654.12)
    I do not care if EVERY COMPANION EVAR turns up, Catherine Tate will do my nut in totally. I won't be watching this on Saturday though, aside from that, because I'll be in London meeting up with geeks. I guess I get to hear all the fallout before seeing it when I get back.

    Man... Catherine Tate...

    Doctor Who is largely a big pile of fanfic ARSE these days anyway. Largely.
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      CommentAuthorroque
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008
     (1654.13)
    dang. I thought this was a thread for people who don't give a living shit about Doctor Who.
  7.  (1654.14)
    That said, it's a kids programme and I watch it with that frame of reference in mind.

    Exactly. My rule of thumb is that when it loses my daughter's attention, it's failing. So, while I was retching at Gollum Doctor Saved By Power Of Prayer, she, having read a lot of magical fantasy children's fiction, just kind of went along for the ride with it.

    Russell Davies isn't writing this show as a hard sf writer. In fact I think, if you were to ask him, he'd consider writing the show as hard sf as being exclusionary and antipathetical to the mainstream cultural leviathan he believes WHO should be. He's a populist, he's a successful children's television writer, and he likes all kinds of television, from the lowest common denominator on up.

    Notably, he's a bit defensive about the latter at times. I saw him interviewed recently, wherein he said he loves all television, and then immediately says that doesn't make him shallow or superficial or stoopid. "I'm not," he said. "I'm clever, and I know what I'm talking about."

    And I think that's why he backs off logical, extrapolated conclusions to the big stories -- I think he deliberately conceives them as magical deus ex machina because he believes that's more accessible to a wide audience. He is clever. He's not writing dumb endings because he's dumb. He's writing dumb endings that he considers emotionally consistent, as opposed to logically consistent.

    I personally think it smacks of a slightly neurotic anti-intellectualism. But, on the other hand, he's a producer, and he needs to deliver big numbers on a (relatively) expensive show that now has the added pressure that fame brings... and it works for him. The minute it stops working for Lili, it'll get switched off in our house.
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      CommentAuthorlamuella
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008
     (1654.15)
    it depresses me that they got rid of my favourite companion to date and replaced her with someone I find personally loathesome.

    However, as long as they get several Stephen Moffatt episodes per season, and don't include any more fucking Daleks, I'll be happy.
  8.  (1654.16)
    I wouldn't call Doctor Who a kids show. Kids friendly, yes, but really more of an all-ages show that different age groups can enjoy for different reasons. Of course, even Davies' earlier genre shows like Dark Season and Century Falls that were consciously aimed at younger audiences seemed to be more mature at times than American genre shows from the same period aimed at older audiences.

    I'm looking forward to the new season. Then again, I've been a fan since the early 80s, and as long as it's about an eccentric alien traveling about time and space in a blue police box, I'm satisfied. At its best, it can do much more than satisfy me, but that's the baseline for my enjoyment. Oh, and the more Daleks, the better.
  9.  (1654.17)
    Of course, even Davies' earlier genre shows like Dark Season and Century Falls that were consciously aimed at younger audiences seemed to be more mature at times than American genre shows from the same period aimed at older audiences.

    Yeah, but that's what kids shows have always been like, over here.
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      CommentAuthormaelorin
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008
     (1654.18)
    I don't expect Doctor Who to be any better or worse than any other BBC production. That is is watchable, and enjoyable, most of the time is enough to keep me DLing eps.

    Knowing that it is designed for a younger audience also helps me cope with the stuff that is less-than-great. In general it is better stuff than much else on TV for kids - my son loves dissecting episodes afterwards, and reenacting alternatives.

    Oh, and I hang on for the Moffat eps. So far they've all been gold. Blink and The Girl in the Fireplace are both milestones in TV for me - for plot and execution.

    Having spent a while last night arguing with mates over the Magical Realism genre, I have to say that I plunk DW squarely there - much more than in Science Fiction as such. It kinda straddles the two, but the use of tech in DW is more like magical machines than science - certainly in the recent series.
  10.  (1654.19)
    Yeah, but that's what kids shows have always been like, over here.

    Now, see, that's something us Yanks miss out on. What we call a kids show here is something that one might consider fit only for monkeys in a zoo, and only the particularly brain damaged monkeys at that. It's just not a category we associate with Doctor Who.
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      CommentAuthorlamuella
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2008
     (1654.20)
    Neil Gaiman once described family entertainment in the US as being "something you can plonk your kids in front of for two hours without any risk that they will be exposed to ideas"