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  1.  (1705.1)
    so ive just begun my seventh or eighth epic re-processing of the invisibles +the disinfo guide. as i have done a few times before, i am reading the volumes out of order. it still works for the most part strangely enough. i thought i would ask around on here, since i have seen people mention multiple readings of this before. i dont have a TON of time right now, but im hoping this is one of those threads that kinda percolates while i am busy doing other, actual work- that way when i come back there is already a myriad of subjects touched on. how do you feel about the story purely as narrative? what about what it actually IS (a life guide, "game" shown to us, an actual hypersigil, etc, etc)? i know that everytime i seriously ( as oppsed to casually) re-read this, weird shit starts happening in my life in regards to "coincedence", dreams, estranged folks showing up out of nowhere-and i am not the only person i have met that this is the case with. regardless of whether it is truly a living magical book or just a nifty way for your brain to sort of re-focus itself, SOMETHING happens when i invest my brainpower into this book. what about you guys? also, how do you guys feel about real life invisiblism? what does that concept even mean to different people? go!
  2.  (1705.2)
    Purely as narrative I'd say it's mostly successful - depends on when I read it. Sometimes the blurred-autobiography parts work better than others.
    As for the rest... it's certainly a hypersigil (in the sense of a big fictional creation that can produce magical effects on the observer) and as a series of metaphors for human minds, reality and whatever the hell lies between those, it's hard to beat. I've used those archtype/variations effectively in magic and am happy to wear a blank badge - and I'm not the only one, I know. The trick, as ever, is to treat these myths as if they are real, not as real. (That phrase nicked from Fortean Theorist/writer Patrick Harpur..)

    Oddly, the character I identify closest with is Mason Lang - I do indeed see all sorts of weird shit whenever I watch a movie...

    everytime i seriously ( as oppsed to casually) re-read this, weird shit starts happening in my life

    I'm one of those people who thinks something's wrong when synchronicity and weird shit stops happening, so it's a bit hard to tell... but I can attest that the spell in the last issue ("repeated exposure improves the immune system") works pretty well.

    whether it is truly a living magical book or just a nifty way for your brain to sort of re-focus itself

    Pretty much the same thing from where I'm sitting!

    And I wish Grant would finish/publish The IF.
  3.  (1705.3)
    As a story - It's a great adventure story. Lots of action, great characters, etc. I think it works great, and is perfectly understandable a whole.

    As the rest - Also great. I think the quality of the story engages you to the other things that it is. I don't think it causes any sort of magickal exeriences, but instead keys you into them. It makes you more aware of the magick in the world, and as a result, you think more are happening. Like you said, it shift your perspective and you refocus your mind on looking at the world differently. It alters your thinking.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAdmiral Neck
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2008 edited
     (1705.4)
    I think the quality of the story engages you to the other things that it is. I don't think it causes any sort of magickal exeriences, but instead keys you into them. It makes you more aware of the magick in the world, and as a result, you think more are happening. Like you said, it shift your perspective and you refocus your mind on looking at the world differently. It alters your thinking.

    ITA. In the Disinfo Book of Lies, GM's chapter talks about training yourself to use Magick Consciousness, which is a heightened perception that is perfect for spotting webs of coincidence and synchronicity (from what Cat Vincent was saying, he will probably know a lot more about this).

    I get a similar, though far more muted, reaction when I watch the Matrix movies and while watching Lost in a concentrated dose (i.e. early on in the show when I was going through the first season and a half on DVD). Works that feature a dense network of symbolic imagery or internal motifs tend to make you look at them much closer than you usually would, and The Invisibles is possibly the most dense work I've experienced, which meant my brain went into overdrive while reading it.
  4.  (1705.5)
    grants chapter in the book of lies is pretty good, with the one specific section that also gets a reference in the final issue of invisibles about not letting you convince yourself that the scaffolding around the building of you is the same as the actual structure hitting me the hardest. theres a lot of other interesting stuff in there ( as well as MOST (but dear god, not all) of the rest of the book) but that stuck out to me.
  5.  (1705.6)
    It's frustrating that that was meant to be the first couple of chapters of his Pop Magick book which remains unfinished (unless the decision to stop repeatedly and obsessively searching for it on Amazon a couple of months ago has turned out to be a bad idea). Guess he's too busy trying to bring the DC universe to life to get with it. Hopefully it will come out eventually. Maybe he will reference the hypersigil idea (I could read his thoughts on The Invisibles all day).
    • CommentAuthorDracko
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2008
     (1705.7)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    What's <em>The IF</em>?
  6.  (1705.8)
    @Dracko:

    A novel Morrison was writing years ago. It was supposed to be similar in theme to the Invisibles.
  7.  (1705.9)
    Sometimes I don't know what to believe in regards to Grant Morrison. On the Disinfo DVD he talks about meeting with extraterrestrials/anti-bodies/whatever you wish to call them at Kathmandu, and then in an interview on Newsarama (I think it was Newsarama) just before the launch of Seven Soldiers he was saying that the Kathmandu thing never happened and it was just him being high and/or having an over-active imagination.

    Maybe he was just changing his story for the mainstream audience, but it really pissed me off. I mean, I (used to?) see him as this great counter-cultural figure who would say and do unbelievable things and was an inspiration for me to think outside the box, to ALWAYS ask questions, to... You know, think for myself and question authority...
    And sure, nothing is true and everything is permitted, but I think I lost a lot of faith in GM over 'The Kathmandu Incident Incident', and his lack of any creator-owned work over the last few years hasn't helped that.

    The Invisibles is pure brilliance, and it will always be, and if I can ever find my blank badge I'll continue to wear it every day, but I guess I'm no longer a devout member of the Church of Grant.
    • CommentAuthorDracko
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2008 edited
     (1705.10)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    Morrison believes in superheroes and I have no problem with him using them as an arena for his ideas.

    So, what? Talking about acid trips and exchanging one form of authority for another is counter-cultural now? Sounds like you're missing the point somewhat. I mean, for God's sake: <em>The Invisibles</em> was published by DC, a Time Warner property.
    •  
      CommentAuthorhectorlima
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2008
     (1705.11)
    Corey, there is no Church. GM said that was his truth, his personal revolutional journey. start yours if you will. and that's DIY, still true to the book's first premises, for all I know. it was a converstion with readers. the guy's a writer, and those are reality architects - they can lie to anybody through hype, even to themselves. and hype can be spun at the hyper's will to better send the message, sell the fish, or both.

    but: his experience in Kathmandu was with DMT, wasn't it? or DMT + something else. in any case, sounds very familiar with those of Terence Mckenna in TRUE HALLUCINATIONS, the part about being taken out of the time continuum and shown how it's shaped. i can't remember if it was in an online interview or in the book ANARCHY FOR THE MASSES that the event was better detailed.

    as it is, apart from the 90's\turn of the Millenium setting, THE INVISIBLES still stands. even after 2012, when it'll probably feel outdated. if you haven't read SEAGUY and THE FILTH, I'd highly recommend for follow-ups of themes dealt in the adventures of King Mob and Co.

    those are all very personal works that have something to say about what was going on inside the guy's head and how that can relate to others.
    •  
      CommentAuthorthecat17
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2008
     (1705.12)
    @hectorlima: if DMT was involved, it was straight from his own pineal gland. He'd been taking hash while he was there, but as he explained in ANARCHY FOR THE MASSES, he didn't think that to be the catalyst for his experience.

    As for "being taken out of the time continuum and shown how it's shaped", I've had personal experiences with the plant salvia divinorum which are similar to... well. Do you remember that part where King Mob is in the "supercontext" and he sees Ragged Robin as she's moving towards him, with every one of her movements leaving an imprint that he's seeing all at once? I've seen it happen.

    @Corey: I'd really love to read that interview where he says it didn't actually happen. Hope somebody turns up a link.
  8.  (1705.13)
    I read once that several decades back an Irish countrywoman was asked if she really believed in fairies, and she said "No...but they're real anyway." That's kind of how I feel about The Invisibles. I LIKE Morrison's acknowledged "this is crazy and probably BS" attitude. But I also feel my head nudged into strange, strange places every time I read those books, and I discover something new every time. It's the greatest creative jumpstart I have at hand.

    So I guess I don't really believe in it, but it works anyway.

    And I miss Chubby da Choona.
  9.  (1705.14)
    Also, I once tried to start an Invisibles cell on craigslist, but nobody bit.
    • CommentAuthorDracko
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2008
     (1705.15)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    Brendan: <a href="http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=149066"><em>Seaguy 2: The Slaves of Mickey Eye</em> is in the works.</a> The script for the first issue is already complete.
    • CommentAuthorfro
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2008
     (1705.16)
    @ Brendan: What were you planning to do in this cell?
    •  
      CommentAuthorNygaard
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2008
     (1705.17)
    "Real life" invisibilism? Always seemed to me like that would mean discordianism warmed over. That was hot enough for me the first time around, so I saw no reason to attempt another go with a new brand slapped on. But then, I was busy dipping my head in other stuff at the time.
  10.  (1705.18)
    Yay! I love the tone of discussion so far. Nothing wrong at all with "hey, I like these guys", but to slavishly follow them as some manner of cult seems to be exactly what they're designed against encouraging.

    It's why, most of the time, I'll call myself an ex-Discordian (well, that, and it gets people to ask questions). Took the reality-tunnel-goggles, put them on, tried them out, enjoyed the experience. But it's not the only one. Part of Zen, part of Discordianism, GM's work, etc. is the message / meme / what-have-you that no reality map is complete. Korzybski and the NLP-folks, if you read RA Wilson, Zen if Alan Watts is more your flavor, the game/players metaphor that runs through Invisibles.

    If anything, it means to me that there's a lot more room for creativity in everyday life than is immediately apparent, sometimes. Grant's bit in the middle of Pop Magic!put it nicely:

    Read lots of books on the subject to get in the mood. Talking about magic with non-magicians is like talking to virgins about shagging. Reading about magic is like reading about sex: it will get you horny for the real thing but it won't give you nearly as much fun.Reading will give you a feel for what's crap and what can be usefully adapted to your own style. Develop discrimination. Don't buy into cults, aliens, paranoia, or complacency. Learn whom to trust and whom to steer clear of.


    Find out what works for you.
  11.  (1705.19)
    hell yeah! this is going well...just a thought on invisiblism itself, as you guys know im a hardcore kid involved in the things that go along with that scene. i found this group of like-minded folk well before i read the invisibles and it seemed that the base theories are very similar: you CAN make your life the way you want it once you make the decision (contact BARBELiTH, if you will) to do so. some will never do it, or some (like myself), will find ways to make aspects of it work in the terms of their own life, while others still will make contact and drop everything, just living life with no compromises. it is an amazing community and the parallels are what made me care about the book.
    the past two read throughs, i have really been more concerned with the story of Audrey Murray, and the basic idea that she never let a shitty life crush her- she still loves and cares. when KM is losing it in the second to last issue and he realizes its all about love, that is a huge turning point for him- one that i only just made my personal revelation with recently.
  12.  (1705.20)
    GM always said Audrey Murray was the central character of the story.