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  1.  (1740.41)
    Is anyone able to recommend a nootropic vendor in New York City? The local chain stores had no idea what I was asking about, but I would imagine that in this city there had to be a place to buy them so that I’m not paying for shipping.
    • CommentAuthorjustDylan
    • CommentTimeJun 8th 2009
     (1740.42)
    This whole subject is something of a black box to me. Can someone point me to a reliable information source for someone unfamiliar with these drugs? I'd like to know the types, effects, side effects, and other considerations, such as the need for choline supplements, involved. Thanks a lot.
  2.  (1740.43)
    Does anyone have any information about how to get these in the UK or the ease/legality of importing them?
  3.  (1740.44)
    yeah... I'm just jumping on this whole thing as well, but this is exactly why I'm here in whitechapel hanging out with you guys in the first place

    after reviewing this thread, I definitely feel informed enough to experiment.

    thanks again, whitechapel.
  4.  (1740.45)
    @justDylan

    Erowid's page on nootropics is a solid place to start, as are the Immortality Institute's nootropics forums. Earlier in this thread I had posted a link from their forums on choline types and dosages; might be a good place to start.

    @Reynolds

    To the best of my knowledge, Piracetam (and the -racetams in general), as well as choline supplements are perfectly legal in the UK, and are almost certainly available domestically.
    • CommentAuthorjustDylan
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2009
     (1740.46)
    Thank you AlephNought! Now for the reading.
    •  
      CommentAuthorglukkake
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2009
     (1740.47)
    Oof, my biggest problem is that while I have a very strong urge to try out nootropics, most all of them come with the disclaimer of "do not mix with alcohol". So, is this just "a generally bad idea with no proven side effects" or like the disclaimer on ibuprofen of "if you're an alcoholic, mixing these will cause you serious internal pain"? And yes, I have experience with the latter.

    My main interest is trying a Piracetam-choline mixture, since it seems to be a good, low risk start.

    Also, does that mixture need to be an every day thing like taking ssri's in order to feel any effects or is it OK to just normal-sized dose and then just stop, like drinking cups of coffee or should I just hold off entirely until I decide to clean up my act?

    Sorry if this seems like an obvious "don't do it" question, but everything I've found has either been from hardcore health nuts or the sorts who can mix everything they want and claim no ill effects and I'd like to see if there's a happy medium.
  5.  (1740.48)
    @glukkake

    I only have personal anecdotal observations and online research on that matter. A -racetam / choline mixture falls closer to the "a generally bad idea with no proven side effects" side of the scale with regard to mixing with alcohol for me. I'm not a heavy drinker (two strong beers is about where I stop on any given evening), and the only effect I've noticed while on the above combo is a slight increase in overall drunkenness. Noticeable, but not game-changing. The ImmInst nootropic forums have a thread with another personal experience, as does Erowid.

    Lasting benefit from Piracetam is definitely a process that over time. Ani- and Oxiracetam work somewhat more quickly. You might try a light dose of Piracetam (800mg?) on a day when you won't be drinking heavily to calibrate yourself to its effects and interactions. I certainly won't say "don't do it", but start small.
  6.  (1740.49)
    Ohh, thinking about cognitive augmentation gets me all future-frisky.
    This is kind of my forte in futurism, really.
    It sucks I am kind of late to the party, but i have been noticing the growing interest recreational nootropics with great whimsy.

    The wired article just strengthens my reserve. I think the people popularizing nootropics will be the architects of the Second Renaissance.

    I have been looking for an "Eschalon Event" for this coming enlightened growth. Perhaps this will be it? Stay tuned, dear thinkers.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMagnulus
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2009
     (1740.50)
    Hmmm... My biggest problem with university studies is clearing my head enough to do proper research for my essays and to then collate all that data INTO a coherent essay. I think this might just be the ticket for me, and something I had never heard of 'till just now thanks to this thread.

    Will definitely try this out when next year of studies starts. Thank you.
  7.  (1740.51)
    After trying Provigil, I have to give it my endorsement. Added alertness if already awake, keeps you from being exhausted on long hauls. Didn't crash any harder than I would have after being awake for a full day. Could sleep while on it when really wanted to. I don't want to mess with my sleep schedule too much, but in a pinch it's totally awesome.
    • CommentAuthorIllogic
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2009
     (1740.52)
    You could also take a Lecithin supplement from what I've understood. Might be wrong about that though.
    Here's a link anyway.
  8.  (1740.53)
    To the best of my knowledge, Piracetam (and the -racetams in general), as well as choline supplements are perfectly legal in the UK, and are almost certainly available domestically.


    Just checked, it's a prescription only medicine - which means getting a doctor to prescribe it. I've no idea on the importing of it, but I would guess that it is legislated against in some way, shape or form.
    •  
      CommentAuthorFinagle
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     (1740.54)
    I've just been checking into this, and thought I should mention that there are *heavy* discounts on most of these substances right now on Amazon. Might not compare to the wholesalers, but:

    NoöRacetam (Piracetam) 800mg - qty 90 - $15
    Choline Bitartrate (500mg) - qty 100 - $5,95

    Those are both Amazon Prime items, so if you're on Prime and in the U.S., 2-day shipping is free.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAndySpield
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2009
     (1740.55)
    I drank Ginkgo Biloba tea through undergrad and that worked for the most part. I just bought some leaves and would mix it in with hot water for a cup or two. I would take breaks from it so that I wouldn't develop any resistance. But undergrad education in the states is largely about memorization, so I think that's why it worked.

    Used crystal meth through my masters. I wrote more than I ever need to -- and found connections where there might be none (oh, internet research at 5 a.m., you are a poison), but found that much of the work was erratic, scattered and a little off. Also, my interpersonal abilities suffered as I was often coming down or getting too high for class.

    For my PhD, I went straight edge -- not even drinking liquor -- which worked for classroom interactions but was a pain for the dissertation writing. I kept on writing myself into corners and having a hard time out.
  9.  (1740.56)
    My experience with nootropics has come full circle as of late. When I was in my 4th grade I was placed under Methylphenidate/Ritalin treatment. My treatment was continued up through to my Senior year of high school and then stopped once I was out of those classes. Looking back a few years ago I never thought I needed the treatment originally but that was mostly due to the sensationalist Ritalin scare of the late 90's.

    I noticed quite a few mental shortcomings over the last few years and want to research Piracetam and Provigil. I'm in Washington and am wondering where to find a source. Also in the same vain, is anyone making capsules from the powder for their own use?

    @AlephNought

    The links you've shared have been a wealth of knowledge. Thanks very much.
    •  
      CommentAuthorFinagle
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2010
     (1740.57)
    Update:

    I decided to go on a full nootropic "advanced stack" and really go all in, both to help my general concentration and specifically to get myself off of the aforementioned kiddie speed, which I had ultimately decided is a really shitty theraputic drug for my purposes. I did my research, took a chunk of my tax return and took advantage of some deep discounts on Amazon. I have a pretty sluggish and insensitive physiology, and it tends to take quite a lot of something for me to notice an effect, so keep that in mind - the amount below are probably not appropriate for most. This stack is designed to replace my previous, much more abusive routine consisting of 2-3 sugarfree Rockstars daily plus Ritalin and/or ephedra and/or ephedrine products, so I have some...metabolic latitude here that most may not.

    My current stack:

    1600 - 2400 mg Piracetam 2-3x daily
    500 mg Choline Bitarate 2-3x daily
    50 mg Vinpocetine 3x daily
    200 mcg L-Huperzine A 2x daily
    200 mg 5-HTP 1x bedtime
    200 mg "Dopa-Bean" Velvet Bean extract containing L-Dopa - 2x daily

    combined with:
    - General Multivitamin "for men"
    - Chondroitin/Glucosamine (joint health)
    - Omega-3/5 fish oil
    - Occasional "Super-B" complex when in need of extra energy
    - Occasional "stacker" style metabolism boost pill with caffeine, cayenne etc

    So far, I have to say I'm happy with the results. I've been combining all this with a general approach to improving my health and diet - regular exercise and stretching, implementing more of Alton Brown's "rule of four lists" in my diet, and changing jobs to slow my life down. In general I have found not just an increased cognitive sharpness, but an increased amount of, for a better word, *will*. I have heard ADHD described not as an attention disorder, but a will/motivation disorder, and this seemed particularly true for me. The biggest overall effect of my stack has just been an increased willingness to get shit done instead of pushing it off. I'm not pulling all-nighters of frantic productivity like I was on the Ritalin rollercoaster, but doing more and better steady work through the day - and more willing and able to let it go at night.

    The effects of the Piracetam have been a bit variable, and I think the stack needs some tweaking to really develop the fullest potential. I'm not sure at all of the value of the 5-HTP and L-dopa supplements, and am considering ditching them for a more fancy choline product. I have been most pleased overall, though, with the Vinpocentine and L-Huperzine - these are both nice, small-dose supplements that anyone who likes a little mental and metabolic boost without stimulant jitters should consider on their own.

    My one small practical concern is a thread I found on a forum suggesting that Omega-3 may interfere with the choline uptake cycle that Piracetam utilizes. I'm going to cut it out for a few weeks and see how it goes, but I've been very much trying to build that up as part of my diet, so I'm somewhat torn on that account. The sheer amount of Piracetam and choline is also quite a lot to choke down, so I'm considering the following modification as I restock for a simpler routine:

    - 1600 mg Piracetam 2x daily
    - 200-400 mg Oxiracetam 2x daily
    - Alpha GPC and/or lecethin to provide choline
    - Whey protein in place of the 5-HTP - whey protein metabolizes into tryptophan, which in turn is metabolized into 5-HTP
    - Neurostim-C 2-3x daily (provides Huperzine and Vinpocetine)
    - Kava kava and kratom for mood stabilization
    - Ideally cutting out the metabolic stimulants (caffeine, ephedra, energy drinks) for the sake of the ol' ticker and blood pressure (and wallet).

    Miscellaneous notes and observations:
    - Vinpocetine is anecdotally said to depress the immune system, and I have indeed caught more colds and flus this season than usual.
    - There are some reports of 5-HTP causing heart valve damage in combination with B vitamins, which I was getting quite a lot of.
    - A Blenderbottle is invaluable for dealing in any of the bulk powders.
    - Exercise and changing my diet somewhat have probably done at least 50% of the work. My 10am and 3pm blood sugar dips are much more even and manageable.
    - All this stuff doesn't do much for general creativity - but that was never really my problem; seeing things through and having the will to complete a project was. A tax accountant during tax season or a student during finals week probably will benefit from this sort of stack more than an artist or creator looking to fire new ideas.
    • CommentAuthorJiveKitty
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2010 edited
     (1740.58)
    Usually have a bit of a fog in my head which means it's hard to motivate myself to do things. So many ideas, so little brought to fruition. It's been better over the past three years or so since I got an exercise routine and a much healthier diet with cutbacks in drinking and no more dabbling with THC and LSD. However, while things are better, I still found myself cramming to get things done and not finishing or starting longer term projects of my own. For example, I'm intending to return to the study of Japanese. Any suggestions for some supplements to help with motivation and clarity and the kind of doses I should go for? I'm not flush with cash and I live in NZ.
    •  
      CommentAuthorFinagle
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2010
     (1740.59)
    JiveKitty -

    I'm not sure what's legal in your area. All the stuff mentioned in my above post, though, is readily available on Amazon from a variety of outlets, so we're not talking stuff you have to hunt down on seedy sites, at least.

    That being said, the stuff I would recommend to try is Vinpocetine and/or Huperzine A. They are both potent in small doses, so no choking down grams worth of pills, and both seem to be well tolerated by most individuals, have mild stimulant effects, and are relatively cheap.

    If you tolerate caffeine well, consider mixing in a good general metabolic stimulant - something with caffeine, cayenne and whatever else is legal in NZ for diet and workouts. And lastly, make sure to add in some melatonin, 5-HTP, kava kava, or similar sleep enhancer to ensure your rest is effective.

    Good luck.
    •  
      CommentAuthortaphead
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2010
     (1740.60)
    I did a two-week test of 2400 mg of piracetam and ~900 mg of choline a while back, and the results were pretty nice. I noticed a slowly increasing improvement in concentration and clarity, but above all it made me wake up with my brain on. None of the usual fuzzyness before getting caffeinated, just get up and GET GOING.

    No ill effects during the test period.

    Now I just need to figure out how to get more of the stuff to Finland, where it's still a prescription medicine.