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Documentation and Support.
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warrenellis - Listen, set up a new MURKY DEPTHS thread, with buy links and all, and directly ask people for their responses to the mag.
So, as suggested by Mr Ellis himself (and a big thank you for the opportunity to pimp our wares), here's Murky Depths' own thread.
For starters here's:-
A direct buy linkor until the 11 May there's a special offer for Whitechapel people HEREOFFER NOW CLOSED..
Here's the first four covers of Murky Depths plus the stand-alone full-colour comic Death and The Maiden #4 from Richard Calder.
Visit Murky Depths for up to date info. -
Opinions of the covers:
The current one [Issue #3] looks like a screenshot from Second Life, from what I can see in the reduced-size version on the website. It fits particularly badly with the red/yellow treatment on the fonts you're using on the cover.
That's Warren Ellis's opinion of the Issue #3 cover over at The SF Magazine thread. What's your opinion? -
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CommentAuthorsynthsapien
- CommentTimeApr 18th 2008 edited
As you asked... really do not like the issue #3 cover. The image does nothing for me, in fact it puts me right off wanting to pick it up. I also dislike the red & yellow title - looks like it was designed in Word. If I hadn't seen it on here and been told of the content, I wouldn't consider it. On a positive note, the general content seems good!
I like the issue #1 cover much, much better. -
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Thanks for your opinion synthsapien. We don't expect to please everyone all of the time, although it'd be good if we could! Our intention is to make each cover as different as possible. Issue #3 was intended to jar the visual senses with the colours, but I think my art director would be disappointed to hear that after all the time he spent on adapting the logo that someone should think it was created in Word! He's got broad shoulders though. And if you don't make mistakes, well, you've probably never done anything.
I like the issue #1 cover much, much better.
Getting Steve Stone's "Mermaid" on the front cover for Issue #1 was a coup for us, likewise Geoff Taylor for Issue #2. Issue #3 is the first cover that's actually based on one of the stories inside - all future covers will be. Issue #4 features an illustration by BFS Best Artist 2007, Vincent Chong, who based it on "Saint Darwin's Spirituals" by D K Thompson. Variant Frequences are going to release a podcast of the story at the same time we launch Issue #4 at the Bristol International Comic Expo on 10 May.
Issue #4 also features a strip from R D Hall who has worked on the scripts for the comics spin off of TV's "Heroes". And for those who were fans of Halo Slipping from James Redington's Portent Comics, "The Dark Gospel" reveals her origins. I'm sure Luke Cooper's story would have appeared under the Portent banner had not James died unexpectedly last year. -
Terry, I think there's just a sharp difference in quality from issue one to three, and it's a little jarring -- but not in the "pick me up and take me home" sort of way. I remember when I first saw issue one, I was honestly impressed with the look -- it's a fresh cover (with no bugs! win!) with sleek fonts on the contents -- with a rich color on the logo it would have been perfect (as you noted on the other threads, solid muted colors get lost on the shelves). But with issue three it's... what? A gaming magazine? A guide to the redlight districts in second life? I'm honestly not certain. And you've got what looks like four fonts hanging out on the cover (which isn't the worst crime in the world), but with the panty-shot second-life scene it all comes across as a less professional book than its predecessors.
And all of that comes across as very snarky, I know, because I'm condensing and bullet pointing the bad. I don't honestly see a lot of mistakes, just a case of pushing the needle too far the other direction. At thumbnail size, there's some great primary color to catch the eye from across the room (though I really do recommend losing the yellow stroke on the logo -- as Steve pointed out it makes it look a bit out of the box). And I love that you're going with non-traditional images for two of the three covers, I just think #3 was a bit of a miss, which happens. -
I just think #3 was a bit of a miss, which happens.
Mmm, almost sounds like you're in a forgiving mood. :) If people manage to ignore the cover(!) Issue #3 has one of the best contents. Hopefully Issue #4 cover will make amends. It's the first cover I've needed to release the moths on. -
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CommentAuthorsynthsapien
- CommentTimeApr 19th 2008
Well you asked. :)
As Ariana says, misjudgments are made - I've had my own share in my work - and I'm sorry if I upset your designer! I'd rather have a proper opinion than a cautionary one though, so I hope he/she's the same! Overall the mag looks great though, keep up the good work! -
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We'd rather have honest opinions, however hurtful they may seem. So it's appreciated. Many thanks.
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Well I'm sure they aren't meant to be hurtful, but constructive as to what you shouldn't do in the future. That being said, I keep wanting to pick this magazine up, it's unfortunate it doesn't have a circulation in the U.S. but I'll be trying to get order an issue when I move to my more permanent residence. The stories and ideas all sound interesting. See if this would be a place I could submit something to.
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We take it constructively.
it's unfortunate it doesn't have a circulation in the U.S.
Yes it is. Diamond have turned us down twice, and unless we change our format (which would turn us into just another clone) and accept their (slaughtering - at least for small/indy press) terms they don't want us to re-apply, but I'll be bending their ears again at Bristol all the same. There are comic purists and prose purists who put their hands up in horror at our mix, but that's what we're all about, and what makes us different. -
And that's what I like about what I've seen. It's something different, and apparently it's what the market needs from what I've heard of the current SF magazines and such. Even Weird Tales has a new format.
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@Lucifal?
Have you tried to sell it via Amazon? I have seen issue #1 for sale here in California.
The website pages' boxed text that states - "Featuring "Spoil" from fantasy novelist Stan Nicolls, Episode Three of "Death and The Maiden" from Richard Calder, Luke Cooper's "The Dark Gospell" continues, plus ten other short stories, plus articles and poems from talented writers." - fails on FireFox on my iMac. -
All three issues are on Amazon, but in the US they're listed as unavailable, which is incorrect. Thanks for the nod about the duff box on Firefox. I think I've sorted it now but I haven't been able to resolve the same problem on the issue #2 page.
Interesting that you've seen Issue #1 on sale in California. Could you be more specific; I'm interested. Thanks. -
Poor old Richard Calder! His cover is getting torn apart. I think the readers who like Richard's work will respond well to the cover as it is representative of his 3D graphic art style. It's a shame it doesn't appeal to a wider audience, but his fans will have been pleased. The reason I'm being so magnanimous is that I am supplying the artwork for issue 5 of Murky Depths and, after reading these comments, I'm already worrying about the response. I can only hope my style has more widespread appeal than Richard's.
The attitude of purists who balk at the mixture of prose and comic strips is baffling to me. To me, a good story is a good story however it is presented. The old 2000 Ad annuals contained a similar mix as I recall so what we are doing at Murky Depths is not exactly unprecedented.
Luke Cooper
midwinter-creations.deviantart.com -
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CommentAuthorwarrenellis
- CommentTimeApr 20th 2008
The old 2000 Ad annuals contained a similar mix as I recall so what we are doing at Murky Depths is not exactly unprecedented.
Not even remotely unprecedented, I'm mildly disturbed that anyone would be freaking out about it. -
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Not even remotely unprecedented, I'm mildly disturbed that anyone would be freaking out about it.
People are always freaking out about something. The more knowledge needed, the more likely they are to be freaking out. :) I think you're being generous with the "mildly disturbed". -
@Lucifal: There's a wee newsstand in Santa Monica on the 2500 block of Main Street that has the odd British periodical ... that's where I saw it. The cover was quite striking. I'll check if a more recent issue is on sale this week. Okay?
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There's a wee newsstand in Santa Monica on the 2500 block of Main Street that has the odd British periodical ... that's where I saw it.
Now I am intrigued!I'm mildly disturbed that anyone would be freaking out about [the mixture of prose and comic strips]
Seems to be the people who haven't an interest in comics who don't like their prose tainted by pictures, rather than the other way around . . . -
Looks like the old high art/low art snobbery refuses to die.
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Looks like the old high art/low art snobbery refuses to die.
Ironic, since many people - even in this day and age - would still consider the entire SF genre as low art, pictures or no, and SF readers have been fighting that sort of prejudice for ages.