Whitechapel - Solar power from space? 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/ Lussumo Vanilla & Feed Publisher Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54380#Comment_54380 2008-05-30T09:22:49-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 rickiep00h http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2930 India contemplates space-based solar power. Couldn't we just turn Mercury into a solar harvest area? It worked in Transmet... India contemplates space-based solar power.

Couldn't we just turn Mercury into a solar harvest area? It worked in Transmet...]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54385#Comment_54385 2008-05-30T09:32:59-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Ben Gwalchmai http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3030 How I wish we could. This article and the reports it quotes from is incredibly encouraging but, unfortunately, I doubt politicians will listen. That isn't me being cynical. When the costs are huge ...
This article and the reports it quotes from is incredibly encouraging but, unfortunately, I doubt politicians will listen. That isn't me being cynical. When the costs are huge and the tech's experimental, history's proven that most wont take the risk.

Considering Obama's technocratic ways, is there any chance he might listen as - hopefully for all my American friends here & elsewhere and for the rest of us - the next president of the US? Does he have an email to send these things to? Wouldn't that be awesome, direct email contact with your next president - maybe a US citizen should email him...anyway, I digress.

Wicked find, rickie.]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54388#Comment_54388 2008-05-30T09:35:05-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 chenryhen http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3517 I was talking to a friend about this, and he asked (and I didn't know the answer) "wouldn't this create one hell of a no-fly zone?" Would that be a serious problem? Could it cause big ...
Would that be a serious problem? Could it cause big problems if there's some alignment error?]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54394#Comment_54394 2008-05-30T09:47:40-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Kosmopolit http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1346 Most designs involve the satellite sitting in geosynchronous orbit 23,000 miles above the Earth. The limits of current antenna technology mean that by the time the power beam has crossed that ...
The limits of current antenna technology mean that by the time the power beam has crossed that distance you need a receptor bigger than a football field and the average field strength is probably lower than from your mobile phone.]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54402#Comment_54402 2008-05-30T10:20:57-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Val A Lindsay II http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1680 I'm seeing the only advantage of space-based arrays being the absence of cloud cover. What am I missing here? Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54419#Comment_54419 2008-05-30T11:08:43-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 nleavitt http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=503 Yeah, I'm pretty sure it would make more sense, and cost about the same, to put solar panels and windmills on every building on earth. I can see it now: month-long blackouts caused by meteors. Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54453#Comment_54453 2008-05-30T12:19:18-07:00 2008-05-30T12:36:35-07:00 dkostis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2538 @ Val A Lindsay II "I'm seeing the only advantage of space-based arrays being the absence of cloud cover. What am I missing here? " Cloud cover absorbs about 1/3 of the solar energy ... "I'm seeing the only advantage of space-based arrays being the absence of cloud cover. What am I missing here? "

Cloud cover absorbs about 1/3 of the solar energy that enters our atmosphere (I can't recall if that is just the visible spectrum of light or all the energy), but the atmoshere reflects about 30% of all solar energy before it enters.

There are also significant advantages in surface area and weight afforded by building arrays in zero-gravity.]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54461#Comment_54461 2008-05-30T12:33:09-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Willow Bl00 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=604 We need to be more effient in actually collecting the energy we're hit with in order for such a thing to work. And if we figure that out, we might not need to go to such extremes to harvest said ... Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54468#Comment_54468 2008-05-30T12:49:25-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Val A Lindsay II http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1680 Don't get me wrong. This may be one of those things that gets us into space. I'm just wondering about the cost of this versus how much we get back out of it. Is it logical to build this in space when ... Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54480#Comment_54480 2008-05-30T13:23:38-07:00 2008-05-30T13:27:26-07:00 dkostis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2538 I can't agree that building on the relatively little undeveloped land we have remaining is worth the short term savings. In the long run building in space has consistently been cost effective (that ... Orbital collectors also have other advantages including effectively unlimited expansion, around the clock exposure to solar energy and a relatively stable enviroment. The same can not be said for ground based arrays.]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54487#Comment_54487 2008-05-30T13:58:07-07:00 2008-05-30T13:58:43-07:00 Val A Lindsay II http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1680 Undeveloped land? I don't know about that. We've got hundreds of square miles of land ready for solar farms in Nevada, Arizona and here in New Mexico alone. How big of an array are you thinking ... hundreds of square miles of land ready for solar farms in Nevada, Arizona and here in New Mexico alone.

How big of an array are you thinking can be in orbit?]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54531#Comment_54531 2008-05-30T16:08:57-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Adam http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=375 I'm just wondering about the cost of this versus how much we get back out of it. See, this is why we need to develop and pony up the cash for a workable Space Elevator. Once such a system is in ... I'm just wondering about the cost of this versus how much we get back out of it.

See, this is why we need to develop and pony up the cash for a workable Space Elevator. Once such a system is in place, collection and storage of resources (such as stored solar energy) could take place in space, and then just shimmied down while something else is on its way up, for next to no cost.]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54537#Comment_54537 2008-05-30T16:26:41-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 rough night http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2694 I just look forward to the day when I can affordably coat my roof entirely in solar panneling. You might think it's to save energy and be self sufficient, but really I think it'll help stop the ... Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54547#Comment_54547 2008-05-30T17:29:15-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Verissimus http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3379 Why don't we just give every person currently living in Chad $ 100,000, buy them a nice house somewhere else, and cover the entire desert with solar panels? Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54550#Comment_54550 2008-05-30T18:10:52-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Linsterg http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2998 Why don't we just give every person currently living in Chad $ 100,000, buy them a nice house somewhere else, and cover the entire desert with solar panels? Do you think they would hold out for ... Why don't we just give every person currently living in Chad $ 100,000, buy them a nice house somewhere else, and cover the entire desert with solar panels?

Do you think they would hold out for that much?]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54571#Comment_54571 2008-05-30T20:11:37-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Kosmopolit http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1346 "I'm seeing the only advantage of space-based arrays being the absence of cloud cover. What am I missing here?" The atmosphere absorbs a lot of the solar energy so you get around that - ...
The atmosphere absorbs a lot of the solar energy so you get around that - basically microwaves are transmitted through air with much lower losses than light or IR radiation.

As well as the lack of cloud cover a powersat in geosynchronous orbit is in day light for 99% of the time - plus there's no seasonal variations to worry about.]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54573#Comment_54573 2008-05-30T20:20:54-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Kosmopolit http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1346 Powersats in geosynchronous orbit have to be huge because they're transmitting energy across 23,000 miles. There are lot of pros and cons but I think to begin with what we'll see is powersats in ...
There are lot of pros and cons but I think to begin with what we'll see is powersats in low earth orbit (like 100 miles up).

The pros -
much lower transmission losses,
lower launch costs
the system is scaler, you can start with a small sat and add more if it works. With geosynchronous you're pretty much committed to a trillion dollar investment before you see watt one.

The cons

- you'd spend much of the time in Earth's shadow losing one of the big advantages of going into space in the first place;

- the risk of collision from space junk woudl be much higher;

- you'd need multiple receivers on the ground although each one would be a lot smaller than for the geosynchronous version.]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54728#Comment_54728 2008-05-31T09:29:33-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Val A Lindsay II http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1680 I can appreciate the advantages and all, but I can't help but see these problems... 1) The cost of getting said panels into space 2) Even if being in open space, I'm not sure with even 30% ...
1) The cost of getting said panels into space

2) Even if being in open space, I'm not sure with even 30% extra efficiency from having a panel in space outweighs the cost of a 30% more efficient solar cell.

3) The damage/destruction potential of open space combined with the cost of repair adds up heavily at the moment.

Again, don't get me wrong. If we did a space array, I wouldn't be against it. Hell, it's quite unlikely but it could be the political vehicle that adds to the foothold of getting into space.

All this said, if Germany, one of the cloudiest places on Earth is putting up solar fields, we sure as heck should be doing it here, even if only to power the states in the southwest.]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=54825#Comment_54825 2008-05-31T15:58:19-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Cyman http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1925 I think I agree mostly with Val. We have 'space' (heh) on Earth to do it, I don't see why we'd bother building solar panels on a space elevator before we have exhausted the solar panel tech here ... We have 'space' (heh) on Earth to do it, I don't see why we'd bother building solar panels on a space elevator before we have exhausted the solar panel tech here first.
And how efficient would it really be to transport all that energy back down to us from thousands of feet in orbit? Especially considering 60% of that energy is just coming to Earth anyway...]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=146368#Comment_146368 2009-04-14T06:12:04-07:00 2009-04-14T06:12:41-07:00 Ginger Ian http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4626 a step closer? a step closer? ]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=146887#Comment_146887 2009-04-15T21:54:49-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Kosmopolit http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1346 GI, I looked at that article and I'm a little skeptical. Satellites in geosynchronous orbit need to orbit around the equator, leaving aside all the other risks, placing the ground antenna in ...
Satellites in geosynchronous orbit need to orbit around the equator, leaving aside all the other risks, placing the ground antenna in Fresno will mean a big reduction in power received compared with somewhere on or near the equator.]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=147586#Comment_147586 2009-04-18T13:28:05-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Osmosis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=866 $5bn for 200MW capacity is ... kinda pricey. $5bn for 200MW capacity is ... kinda pricey.]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=147596#Comment_147596 2009-04-18T14:26:49-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 James Puckett http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2911 $5bn for 200MW capacity is ... kinda pricey. Yes, but if it can be done it offers a way to create new power stations without the NIMBY issues that make wind, coal, wave, and nuclear such a PITA. ... $5bn for 200MW capacity is ... kinda pricey.

Yes, but if it can be done it offers a way to create new power stations without the NIMBY issues that make wind, coal, wave, and nuclear such a PITA. More importantly, it also offers a way to send power right down into a large city as opposed to building one of these theoretical twenty-first century electricity grids that politicians and futurists pretend will pop into being an obviate the laws of physics that make transmitting electric current over long distances so inefficient. To countries like China and India this would be a godsend—they provide power and create jobs without having to seize more farms to build polluting coal plants, while justifying space programs that are increasingly unpopular with the restless and disenfranchised lower classes. If the costs can be brought down to a profitable level over time the businesses building and maintaining them stand to make even more money than the companies doing nuke plants now.]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=147623#Comment_147623 2009-04-18T17:12:25-07:00 2009-04-18T17:13:18-07:00 Kosmopolit http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1346 @Osmosis - it's a prototype. And running costs should be low. Although you have to wonder what allowance has been made for ground gear maintenance and for in-space repairs and maintenance.
Although you have to wonder what allowance has been made for ground gear maintenance and for in-space repairs and maintenance.]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=147624#Comment_147624 2009-04-18T17:14:59-07:00 2009-04-18T17:33:38-07:00 Kosmopolit http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1346 "...these theoretical twenty-first century electricity grids that politicians and futurists pretend will pop into being an obviate the laws of physics that make transmitting electric current ...
No, the laws of physics say that long distance transmission of high voltage DC is far more efficient than AC and we have real world examples of 1,000-mile plus HVDC lines to back that up.]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=147666#Comment_147666 2009-04-18T20:56:30-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Kosmopolit http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1346 HVDC is a mature technology. For example: Swiss power and automation technology group ABB said that it has won an order worth around $140 million to deliver transformers to the State Grid ...
For example:

Swiss power and automation technology group ABB said that it has won an order worth around $140 million to deliver transformers to the State Grid Corporation of China for a high-voltage power corridor that will strengthen the Chinese electricity network and help meet rising demand in the Shandong coastal region.

According to the company, the power link will transmit 4,000MW of electricity at 660kV over 1,350km, from the Ningxia province to Shandong. The corridor will use high-voltage direct current (HVDC) technology to maximize transmission efficiency.


link]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=147691#Comment_147691 2009-04-19T01:09:41-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Osmosis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=866 I understand that prototype != commercial version, and that every technology must begin somewhere. I certainly see the benefits that James points out, and don't get me wrong, I'll be cheering ... Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=168736#Comment_168736 2009-06-25T05:20:56-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 Kosmopolit http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1346 Interesting take on the problem: 1. A modular system with multiple satellites transmitting power to a single transmitter which then beams it to Earth - makes the whole thing more viable because ...
1. A modular system with multiple satellites transmitting power to a single transmitter which then beams it to Earth - makes the whole thing more viable because you can build it in stages and use existing rockets to put up all or msot of the components.

2. In the first instance, rather than beaming the power ti Earth beam it to satellites in LEO with ion engines to propel them to GEO.

link]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=169408#Comment_169408 2009-06-26T13:33:06-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 256 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4827 @Kosmo Although you have to wonder what allowance has been made for ground gear maintenance and for in-space repairs and maintenance. Other than manned space stations, the only thing that ever ...
Although you have to wonder what allowance has been made for ground gear maintenance and for in-space repairs and maintenance.

Other than manned space stations, the only thing that ever gets repaired in space is Hubble. Maybe if your power installation is a single entity, and the problem has put it completely offline, then it might make financial sense to go and repair it but it would have to cost a whole hell of a lot.]]> Solar power from space? http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=2422&Focus=169494#Comment_169494 2009-06-26T17:52:47-07:00 2013-05-20T20:41:50-07:00 looneynerd http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5373 You also have a serious problem with space debris. Satellites get hit and pinged by stuff all the time. I can't imagine the fragile solar panels surviving terribly long, at least not without losing a ...