Whitechapel - an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Shawn — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:38:18 -0800

Almost a month ago a friend forwarded me the following email. It was from one american housewife to several others. I laughed out loud and then responded to the original author with a one sentence message, as follows: 'I would like You to know I work for a major retailer and I put these books in every little hand I can.'

Since reading HDM several years ago (and seeing half the stage production at London's National Theatre) I have been in love with the books. I have also been waiting for 'outrage' at the content, especially here in the states, where people wind there little arseholes so tight over things like this you could not fit a crucifiction nail in em'.

Here's that email, sorry about not adjusting the layout.

The Golden Compass

There will be a new children's movie out in
December called "The Golden
Compass," starring Nicole Kidman. While it
will be a watered down
version, it is based on a series of children's
books about killing God.
(It is the anti-Narnia.) The hope is to get a
lot of kids to see the
movie - which won't seem too bad - and then
get the parents to buy the
books for their kids for Christmas. The movie
has been described as
"atheism for kids" and is based on the first
book of a trilogy entitled
"His Dark Materials" that was written by
Phillip Pullman. Pullman is a
militant atheist and secular humanist who
despises C. S. Lewis and the
"Chronicles of Narnia." His motivation for
writing this trilogy was
specifically to counteract Lewis' symbolisms
of Christ that are
portrayed in the Narnia series.
Clearly, Pullman's main objective is to bash
Christianity and promote
atheism. Pullman left little doubt about his
intentions when he said in
a 2003 interview that "my books are about
killing God." He has even
stated that he wants to "kill God in the minds
of children". It has
been said of Pullman that he is "the writer
the atheists would be
praying for, if atheists prayed."
While "The Golden Compass" movie itself may
seem mild and innocent, the
books are a much different story. In the
trilogy, a young streetwise
girl becomes enmeshed in an epic struggle to
ultimately defeat the
oppressive forces of a senile God.
Another character, an ex-nun, describes
Christianity as "a very powerful
and convincing mistake." In the final book,
characters representing
Adam and Eve eventually kill God, who at times
is called YAHWEH. Each
book in the trilogy gets progressively worse
regarding Pullman's hatred
of Jesus Christ.
"The Golden Compass" is set to premier on
December 7, during
theChristmas season, and will probably be
heavily advertised. Promoters
hope that unsuspecting parents will take their
children to see the
movie, that they will enjoy the movie, and
that the children will want
the books for Christmas.
Please consider a boycott of the movie and the
books. Also, pass this
information along to everyone you know. This
will help to educate parents, so that they will know the agenda
behind the movie.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

C.c. — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:19:57 -0800

Philip Pullman = This Man?

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

warrenellis — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:36:16 -0800

HDM...?

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Scribe — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:40:08 -0800

"HDM...?"
His Dark Materials, the first book in the series.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Shawn — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:14:30 -0800

Actually, His Dark Materials is the overall series. Golden Compass is the first book, The Subtle Knife the second and The Amber Spyglass the third.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Scribe — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:26:57 -0800

I never actually read any of them, I've only hard opinions about them. It's funny that even those that hold a disdain of the nature of the book all agree that they are very well written. One day, when my reading pile dwindles down, I may just read them.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

warrenellis — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:57:17 -0800

I'll never know why grown adults read children's books.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

eggzoomin — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:58:13 -0800

Because sometimes you want a gourmet meal and sometimes you just fancy a cheeseburger or sweeties?

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Kosmopolit — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:54:26 -0800

There are other Christ-nuts who say CS Lewis was actually a closet Satanist out to poison children's minds.

So if Nutman's the anti-Lewis, they should be supporting him.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Shawn — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:10:32 -0800

I had the same reaction as You, Warren until I read them. I think I asked my wife repeatedly, '...and why would I want to read a young adult novel?' Then, when I begrudgingly began, the first thing that struck me about them was how much more mature they were, in technique, vocabulary and themes than a lot of the 'grown up' science fiction novels out there that people I know swore by. Each their own I guess, and working in a bookstore I understand the prejudice. SInce the advent of a certain mega-franchise of Scotish export it seems like anybody and everybody writes 'young adult' now. Lot's of shit. However the genre-title is really a disappointing facet of the business. I'll never understand why someone like Robert Anton Wilson gets pigeon-holed as Sci-Fi while certain works by authors such as William Burroughs, George Orwell and Aldous Huxley are capable of transcending such a limiting and exhausted classification to be considered 'literature' (and there's no bias there, I love everyting I'm talking about, I'm just saying its not a level playing field). It's the way we have agreed to consume these things as a society I guess. I hate saying what I write is science fiction, but when I'm sending out queries or giving a pitch that's what its going to boil down to with many, because there are certain elements at work. Crooked Little Vein sits right next to Janey Evanovich in the 'mystery/thriller' section at many a store. I wish I could change that, but I can't (that's why I bought mine from my local comic book shop).

But HDM really is quite good.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

WilliamDanger — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:16:14 -0800

I read them when I was a child and now I'm an Atheist.
Oh shit. Maybe the Christians are right?! o_0!

I don't its possible to 'convert' someone to Atheism per se, anyway. All you can do is present logical questions. Either they'll bounce off of a well maintained wall of conviction or there will soon be one more inquisitive follower.
It is questions that kill gods, not books.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Ariana — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:29:45 -0800

Warren said:

I'll never know why grown adults read children's books.

Maybe a lot of today's YA authors would rather be writing ricockulous adventure pulps. People keep saying YA these days is surprisingly mature and well-written... so either standards have gone way down (possible), or the authors are just sticking kids in adult plots and calling it a sale (also possible. And kinda worse, actually).

'Course, anyone who loved Harry Potter loses ability to recommend me anything, ever, instantly.

(To be fair, there are some YA books I enjoyed as a child that I've revisited as an adult -- some mixture of sentiment and curiosity -- but I don't think I'd have picked them up if I didn't already remember them...)

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

immaterial — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:34:15 -0800

An adult would read children's literature because, just as with comics, sometimes someone does it better. I haven't read Pullman, and I don't read Rowling, but I'll take all the Lewis Carroll I can get.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

F. David Swallow II — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:55:07 -0800

Well, i never knew any kids who read 900 pages books....

Anyways, I've never read ANYTHING in from jesus saying that fiction is bad, and I'm not sure why christians dont think its there responsibility to teach their kids the difference between real and make believe. I hope this move does really well.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Shawn — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:58:31 -0800

I'll just say this and be done, because I started this thread and so I deserve whatever lambastation (not a word, I know) it garners, but I feel like its gotten away from the point, which was of course was how these books have ideas and themes in them that, yes, are being marketed by the publisher toward children, but no, are not what you would expect to find in a children's book. I am glad that its become a big deal with their stupid all-star cast, cgi blowjob movie because, just as the author of the email I quoted fears, I can only hope for a large amount of children (read: young, growing humans) might follow it with the books and be exposed to something that A) might stretch the learning curve and B) might lead us in the direction of finally finishing the agonizingly slow death kicks of Christianity and all the backwards, controlling and downright hateful things many branches of it breed. Ariana, I know what You mean about revisiting (and let me set the record straight in case you misread, I am not a Harry Potter fan). But going back and looking at A Stitch in Time or similar books that tickled my brain when I was knee high to herve villachez, I never feel they hold up. HDM does. I argue on this only because I've had such similar conversations with people about comics.

Me: 'I think You'd really like Watchmen, or Sandman, or the Invisibles. They're not what you think.'

Other: 'No thanks, those are comic books. Why do grown adults read comic books?'

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

graphicartistx — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:06:46 -0800

We Christians believe that Jesus died and rose from the grave, yet any book with magic or ghosts or wizardry we find offensive??? I don't get it either, people. To believe in the ressurection is to believe in the supernatural, in my mind. I don't know if ghosts are real things, I don't know if "magic" really exsists. Nor do I know Jesus truly rose from the dead. I'd like to believe in ghosts, since their exsistence means some form of an afterlife, I'd like to believe in "magic" actually happening since it would show that material is not all there is. I do believe Jesus ressurected, but maybe that's just my hope for something beyond the ether. But when it comes to outcries over a book, the Christians are exhibiting more FEAR than hope. Makes no sense to me.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

StefanJ — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:41:11 -0800

Shawn nails in 278.10.

You know, as clueless as that email is, these books are pretty damn blasphemous. But they're entertaining, thought-provoking, really well thought out blasphemy.

It's the kind of blasphemy we need right now.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Ariana — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:46:57 -0800

and let me set the record straight in case you misread, I am not a Harry Potter fan

Hahaha! No points deducted on that, then. ;)

And certainly no need to argue. I'm sure some YA books really are all that mature. I just wonder, then, why they're in the YA section. Broken system, or devious author/pub? (Edited to add: Probably a little of both. I was pretty confused when I saw "Enders Game" had been moved to YA a few years back.)

(Good comics, for the record, aren't the greatest argument for why adults should read YA. Comics are a medium -- not a genre, nor an age-based classification system. Yes, some people think comics are just for kids, but that's not because they're called "FUNNY PICTURE BOOKS FOR KIDDIES". Although some probably should be.)

At any rate, yes it's terribly amusing some folks -- many that think their faith system should start in on the very young with the specific purpose of bonsai'ing the little brains into cross shapes before they know any better -- are pissed off when a fantasy author does same.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

sacredchao — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:09:02 -0800

I think, Warren, that you would like them. There's a little bit of steampunk, and a lot of dark fantasy. I honestly don't know why they are considered "kids books," though I do think kids should read them, just to be poisoned against the evil that is Christianity.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

ARES — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 00:42:19 -0800

'll never know why grown adults read children's books.

'Course, anyone who loved Harry Potter loses ability to recommend me anything, ever, instantly.

Normally I read Kerouac, Vonnegut, Hesse, Nabokov, Rushdie, and Eco, but man oh man, I adored the Harry Potter series. I had planned on ignoring them until pushed by my mother to read them (herself being the literature snob I learned from), and I'm glad I did. I later convinced my sole lit. snob friend to read them, and he was quite hesitant, but he ended up loving them as much as the two of us did. I don't like children's literature, I like good writing.

Off topic a bit I suppose, but I'm hoping that His Dark Materials gives me the same feeling as HP did. If not, I have plenty more Rushdie, Kerouac, et. al. to entertain me. :)

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

sacredchao — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 00:52:22 -0800

Nice list of authors there. Haven't read Nabokov or Hesse, but Rushdie and Vonnegut are two of my favorites. Used to be a Kerouac fan, but now, meh. Anyway, point is, as a fellow literary snob, I hope you give me a bit of credit when I recommend the HDM trilogy.

I also enjoyed Harry Potter. I wouldn't say it's the greatest thing on earth, but they were fun reads.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

sacredchao — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:36:41 -0800

The Onion has some stuff to say on this issue.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Jay Kay — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:46:14 -0800

I also enjoyed Harry Potter. I wouldn't say it's the greatest thing on earth, but they were fun reads.

Yeah, they're not the greatest stories ever, but they were my money's worth.

I also loved His Dark Materials. Is is primarily for kids? Sure, but it's well-written that adults can enjoy them, and really, those are the best kind of "young adult" stories, to me.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Insect King — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:48:10 -0800

I think the sacredchao had a very insightful even cheeky response right there which is if someone fills your anus with the boring (how a certain topic is against another topic and must be banned/boycotted/nailed to a cross) you should rather go to the Onion and read something written by intelligent and calm people. Let them cleanse the irrational out of your colon with high grade irony.

Ahhh. Relief by Onion, smoothing nature's rough edges and stupids since fuck knows when.

C.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Alexa_D — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:49:22 -0800

I'll never know why grown adults read children's books.

Well, as a 20-year-old who reads anything she can get her hands on, perhaps I'm at just the right age to get away with reading children's books, but the answer remains the same: I like good stories. When I pick up a book or comic, I want to be entertained, and maybe have the deeper parts of my soul touched. And I've gotten that from Vonnegut, from Harry Potter, from Michael Chabon, and His Dark Materials. If I didn't get the results I wanted from children's/YA books, I wouldn't read them.

I'm also reminded of a story that Neil Gaiman told, about how a friend once gave him a copy of Coraline with a Post-It attached that said, "Some mad person put this in the children's section."

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Miss — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:58:30 -0800

Regarding the opening post, my mother was at a card game last week and the Golden Compass film came up in conversation. She pretty much had to bite her tongue being the black sheep of the block (an atheist lesbian with a Jewish partner living in a churchgoing suburb), but from what she told me, these people probably saw either this email or one of the various articles along the same lines. Verdict being they're not going to see it, let alone take their spawn along. As for Pullman, I recently got a letter from evil humanist scumbags telling me they were going to give him an award at their 2008 conference. Clearly he is one of those Satan things.

As for other stuff said, I still have a soft spot for certain kid's books (including those further back from YA), possibly because I'm not far out of that stage and am rather childish by nature, I don't know. I've never felt the need to justify it. In my opinion, there is as much merit in reading Watership Down as there is in reading The Gulag Archipelago. Beatrix Potter books still have a place on my shelf right alongside a bunch of more socially acceptable authors, some of whom have been mentioned in this discussion.

As for the other Potter? Harmless fluff and decent potboilers. I read the first three on a long-haul flight and found them to be good timekillers that didn't require brain breaks. Like Alexa, I read whatever I find to be enjoyable. Some of it is pretentious wank, some of it is popcorn, some of it happens to be found outside of the "grown-up" sections.

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Oddcult — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 04:27:37 -0800

Kids books are often much darker, nastier and more intelligent. Escapist fiction for adults is mostly pretty appalling and full of mary sue characters, happy endings and is generally a bit wanky. With a few notable exceptions I've given up on adult genre fiction. I still find a lot to offer in the kids' or young adults sectors because, I think, the writers assume they're writing for intelligent kids instead of the arrested adolescents that make up the main audience for most 'adult' genre works.

ie - the Anita Blake Vampire Hunter books are massively popular genre fiction that's labelled 'adult' because of the sex and violence. They might well be 'adult', but I'd say with absolute conviction that Phillip Pullman's writing is a great deal more mature and intelligent. I got halfway through an Anita Blake book, which on paper ticks all the boxes of stuff I'd enjoy, but I actually wanted to tear it up so no one else had to suffer it because it was so badly written.

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warrenellis — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 04:58:50 -0800

Me: 'I think You'd really like Watchmen, or Sandman, or the Invisibles. They're not what you think.'

Other: 'No thanks, those are comic books. Why do grown adults read comic books?'

Apples and oranges. None of them say "children's fiction" on the back, for a start.

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Fredrik — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 06:00:24 -0800

Really, if their faith and arguments cannot stand up to questions asked by children, provoked by a fantasy novel, there's just something wrong. Which, I guess, is what they're afraid of finding out.

I totally have to check out these books now, if I can find the time.

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Joe Paoli — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:10:41 -0800

@Fredrik
Really, if their faith and arguments cannot stand up to questions asked by children, provoked by a fantasy novel, there's just something wrong. Which, I guess, is what they're afraid of finding out.

I forget where I heard the following quote, but it was some televised report. The man saying it was a cleric of some persuasion and to paraphrase it went something like this: "Faith not strong enough to withstand a film like this could use the exercise." I wish the angry religious people that are afraid of losing their stranglehold on truth would embrace that philosophy.

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Paul Duffield — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:55:09 -0800

@Warren
"I'll never know why grown adults read children's books."

Wow, that's a bit of a gross generalisation. Do you mean "badly written and patronising books marketed for that demographic of children who haven't yet discovered what reading should be"? In which case, I'll certainly never know why grown adults read Harry Potter either. As for other children's books that are well written, imaginative and un-patronising, why not? Some of the best books I've ever read are intended for children, and one of my favourite illustrators only does "children's" picture books.

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Red Scharlach — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:29:15 -0800

Warren, what's not to like about Alice in Wonderland or Watership Down?

I'd like Pullman more if he was a more efficient writer (This should be required for children's fiction) and wasn't so blatant about his anti-religious motivations within the text itself. I don't mind his message (I'm an antitheist), but it takes away from the story when it's so prominent. Honestly, His Dark Materials really isn't that great.

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mrkvm — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:49:29 -0800

This is actually a really great thread.

Ares nailed it here, I think: "I don't like children's literature, I like good writing."

That's very much how I feel. I'm not particularly worried about what section of the book store it came from or whom it is being marketed to if there's a good story with thoughtful/fun/pleasing writing inside. Another example of this would be Garth Nix's Abhorsen trilogy, which was recommended to me by a couple friends. I was quite hesitant about it, but then gave it a try. Some of the most unique fantasy I'd read in a long time (though I gather some of his other books are crap).

The other piece of this is that I have a daughter. She's only 2 right now, but my wife and I read to her constantly. She's already obsessed with books and going to the library. So, you know, when she's old enough to read longer works, I'll surely read them too so that I can talk to her about them. That way, I figure I can help find the engaging and challenging work over, say, the total empty junk.

I'm highly amused by the some of the reactions to HDM, and it's made me more interested in the series. I want to see the movie, because, well, the imagery looks kinda cool. Plus, I hardly get to see movies (see the note about having a 2yo above). So, I figure I'll read The Golden Compass and then go see movie just to see.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Red Scharlach — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:11:46 -0800

Let's face it though: It's hardly a feat antagonising or offending the Christian majority. It's really quite boring, actually.

From what I understand, the film's potential is squandered in favour of special effects. I don't know, I don't plan to see it either way.

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Alexa_D — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:15:03 -0800

Do you mean "badly written and patronising books marketed for that demographic of children who haven't yet discovered what reading should be"? In which case, I'll certainly never know why grown adults read Harry Potter either.

Well, that's certainly not patronizing there, Paul.

Speaking as somebody who started reading Harry Potter as a child and finished them as an adult, I can tell you, Harry Potter played an integral part in my maturation as a reader and my appreciation for literature. For one thing, they actively encourage the reader to analyze the text and characters for foreshadowing and general themes. For another, have you seen the size of those things? Before I read Harry Potter, I was reading 150 page "chapter books" far below my actual reading level. When it came out, Goblet of Fire was the longest book I had ever read, and it boosted my confidence in my abilities as a reader; without it, I am quite sure that I would not have picked up Lord of the Rings the next year with relish, I would have been scared away by it's girth. And if nothing else, it got me into the habit of reading. For a while, I was just cycling through the first four books over and over, but yeah, it got a little tedious after a while. But I couldn't fathom the idea of not having a book ready in my backpack, and so I found other things to read, most of them at the recommendation of fellow Potter fans (these included LotR, Oscar Wilde, Sherlock Holmes, and Neil Gaiman--who got me into comics and is why I'm even here). Now it's surprising when I have less than 5 books going at once.

So I can't objectively answer why adults read Harry Potter, but I'm going to guess it's got something to do with what I said before: good story, engaging characters, escapism that rings true.

And sorry for getting defensive, but it really irks me when people criticize other's taste in books just because they didn't get the same thing out of them. Frankly, I found the Narnia books far more patronizing and badly written; I finished the fourth one, looked at the fifth one and thought 'Why bother?' But when my roommate raves about them and takes the CS Lewis class at my university because of them, I don't scoff and say, "don't you know what real books are?" I just think it's cool that she found something to enjoy about them.

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MagicSword! — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:18:40 -0800

Mmm, I don't really see them as kids, or YA books. Almost everyone I know who has read them thinks they just stand on their own as literature.

And as for the story - so good I cried.

And as for killing God, I didn't feel he tore down the Christian religion, as much as he did the Church, in all sorts of insulting ways.

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Ava Jarvis — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:36:16 -0800

Books get called YA when the main characters are children or animals. That's why Ender's Game, Watership Down, Uglies, and other books of that ilk, which we think of as plain old literature, are considered YA.

Apparently there's no such thing as adult fiction that contains main characters that are mostly children.

Which is why you can't toss all of YA into one basket, and why the situation does resemble that of comic books, even though YA is a subclass of a medium whereas comic books are their own entire medium. If YA is colored by Scholastic Specials, then comics are colored by superheroes. And we all know that neither generalization holds true.

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Ava Jarvis — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:37:48 -0800

By the way -- Swanwick's Iron Dragon's Daughter? Considered Sci-Fi YA.

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Vespers — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:10:54 -0800

Ender's Game and Watership Down, fit for young people? Uh... No.

I mean, yes, but only if you WANT them to end up people like us.

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Alexa_D — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:40:21 -0800

By the same token, Vonnegut is considered "adult" literature, but everyone seems to discover him in their teens. Obviously they continue to love him into adulthood, but no one can deny that his general themes of tragic optimism and crest-fallen fury at the state of things appeal most to teens, when they're beginning to discover terrible the world is for themselves.

Also, if you read Young Avengers or Runaways, guess what? You're reading YA!

Feh, it's all arbitrary, really.

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Red Scharlach — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:41:44 -0800

They are totally fit for young people if you don't want them to grow up susceptible to institutional idiocy.

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Paul Duffield — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:30:11 -0800

@AlexaDickman
"And sorry for getting defensive, but it really irks me when people criticize other's taste in books just because they didn't get the same thing out of them."

My apologies, I know it was childish, I just couldn't resist the dig. I don't want this to turn into a Harry Potter war.

*EDITED*

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Ava Jarvis — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:55:22 -0800

For someone who doesn't want to start a Harry Potter war, Paul, you are veering pretty close to it.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

ARES — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 00:13:35 -0800

I'll never cease being amazed by vast opinions based primarily on assumption. Always reminds me of my favourite scene in Five Easy Pieces, the bit with Samia.

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graphicartistx — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 00:32:39 -0800

Temper, temper people. It's a book and everyone has opinions. Let cooler heads prevail.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

sacredchao — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 00:43:29 -0800

This is totally off topic, but I just realized that everyone on this board writes in complete, grammatically correct sentences. That's pretty cool.

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Ava Jarvis — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 01:21:48 -0800

That is totally cool. :)

an amusing example of the 'outcry' against HDM

Doc Ocassi — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 01:56:45 -0800

Getting back on topic. I was introduced to HDM by a Christian and he explained the whole Lewis <> Pullman thing. Only last week in-fact, due in no small part to that fact that I am not a big fiction reader. I am considering reading Lewis then Pullman just to have an understanding of impact of these books.

Veering off again. Although I can understand the idea that Harry Potter is for children, having read one. I would say, as far as my limited ability to analyse literature goes, that the book didn't make me want to read any more. I can understand getting involved in a world, and those aspects of immersion, but the book just didn't grip me.

Going back to the topic. HDM or the ideas held within, seem to be in opposition to the Christian belief system, Pullman doesn't seem to be quiet on this subject. Christians intending on a boycott is quite rational behavior, from their standpoint, because they have something to loose. While you are putting this book the 'every little hand [you] can,' where you don't really have much to loose or gain from doing it. If you were aware of a bookshop plying religious themed literature into your children's hands would you be worried?

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Paul Duffield — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 02:41:40 -0800

@ Ava Jarvis
"For someone who doesn't want to start a Harry Potter war, Paul, you are veering pretty close to it."
Very true. It was late when I wrote that, and I was tired and pissed off. I've removed all my ranting, since everyone's been kind enough to ignore it and get back on topic :)

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Alexa_D — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 03:46:23 -0800

And I'm sorry for my tl;dr rant (which didn't sound so bad when I first wrote it, I swear!) Perhaps I'm feeling a bit depressed that the last shreds of my childhood have concluded.

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rfrancis — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:16:03 -0800

Apparently I am equal and opposite to Doc Ocassi -- I avoided both Narnia and HDM because both were introduced to me as polemical, and I just wasn't interested, whether I agree or disagree with the viewpoint each espouses.