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    • CommentAuthorsacredchao
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2007 edited
     (281.1)
    Did anybody read this edition of The Sunday Hangover a few weeks ago? I found it both depressing, and rather gross. The wife says I can't watch porn anymore because of it. The bit about donkey punching was especially horrifying.

    Personally, I think in it's current state, porn is highly misogynistic and objectifying. However, I don't think that is something that is inherent in showing people having sex, but I think our culture has basically made it almost impossible for it to be anything but. I know that there are companies that try to make "feminist" porn and everything, but I just don't think stirring in a bit of POMO cultural theory and a dash of reappropriation can turn around such a fucked up industry.

    Any thoughts?
    • CommentAuthorsacredchao
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2007 edited
     (281.2)
    As I wrote that, it sort of became something different then I had originally intended, so if it needs to be moved, feel free.

    Also, this is kind of what I see as a possible alternative to the current XXX culture.
    •  
      CommentAuthorARES
    • CommentTimeDec 13th 2007
     (281.3)
    Is the end of the world nigh when even the weirdos start backing away slowly from porn, thinking it has gone too far? Over the past year or so I've started thinking how a lot of porn is, well, gross. I remember a time when anal sex and even facials were nearly taboo, but it seems even the tamer stuff includes both (and then some) lately. Hatefucking is the norm.

    About a year ago after doing a bit of research it seems that a dude called Max Hardcore is to blame for a lot of the modern trends of borderline horrifying pornography. He looks like the type to rape his grandchildren so I'm not surprised, but still. Pretty disgusting when you get right down to it.
    Also, this is kind of what I see as a possible alternative to the current XXX culture.
    AMAZING. I love it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJay Kay
    • CommentTimeDec 13th 2007
     (281.4)
    Also, this is kind of what I see as a possible alternative to the current XXX culture.


    It's hilarious because it's true. I'd totally support that.
    • CommentAuthorsacredchao
    • CommentTimeDec 13th 2007
     (281.5)
    About a year ago after doing a bit of research it seems that a dude called Max Hardcore is to blame for a lot of the modern trends of borderline horrifying pornography. He looks like the type to rape his grandchildren so I'm not surprised, but still. Pretty disgusting when you get right down to it.


    Just wikipedia'd him. Seems creepy.

    I'm not sure if I would classify anal and facials as too far. I think it's the way the whole thing is portrayed - there's no erotic element to any of it. It's not intended to be an equal-opportunity fun time for all involved parties. They treat the women like they are blow-up dolls. That is the issue I have. I've got no problem with fetishes or kinky sex, I just don't like seeing anybody treated as a piece of meat.
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      CommentAuthorJoe Paoli
    • CommentTimeDec 13th 2007
     (281.6)
    Read Violet Blue's Tiny Nibbles blog for a more female centric view of porn and things erotic, maybe it'll give you hope.

    I'm not sure Max Hardcore's solely to blame for the state we're in. He certainly was one of the pioneers of gonzo POV plotless porn, but from what little I've read, the rise of home video and the internet have driven what little plot and eroticism there was to be had down to wank-lengthed clips that can be played for one-handed net-surfers on YouTube-like sites like YouPorn. Combine that with the natural tendencies to push boundaries and the lack of obscenity enforcement under Clinton and we had the rise of more 'shocking' and taboo subjects that might not have happened if there wasn't so much product out there fighting for people's eyeballs and genitals, and here we are. Though there are still people that hate the current trends enough to produce stuff that appeals to their sensibilities - it's just harder to find because gonzo clips are easy and cheap to make.

    Just wait until the Teledildonics - er, come online, and you can sensorily experience what you see your Second Life avatar experiences. Goodbye video.
    • CommentAuthorsacredchao
    • CommentTimeDec 13th 2007
     (281.7)
    I checked it out. Im going to try a few of her movie suggestions and see what I think. Thanks for the link.

    Obviously placing the blame solely on one person is a bit extreme, even if that one person is such an obvious douche. It's kind of like when people say Moore single handedly changed comics. Obviously, thats impossible. Times changed, readers changed, etc.
    • CommentAuthorpygmy
    • CommentTimeDec 13th 2007
     (281.8)
    I think part of the seachange of modern porn is that there is so freaking much more of it nowadays. With the rise of cheap digital video, easy DVD burning (anyone with a grand and a few hours can totally crank out hundreds of DVDs), simple and cheap advertising and "teasers" via the web (where previously, adverts for porn were pretty much relegated to the back pages of shitty skin mags and maybe your local ADULT XXX VIDEO joint), the only way to stand out is to make your shit so incredibly outrageous and over-the-top that it catches someone's eye. Simple one-upsmanship.

    Even in the 80's, you still needed expensive film, cameras, all the equipment necessary for movie-making (even if it was low-end crap). Then you had to pay to get it duplicated, a place to store cases of hardcopies, a distribution system (difficult, when I think* it's illegal to mail porn over state lines in the US). When an undertaking is expensive, you tend to take a little* more care with its quality. And it cost more to buy or see, so people were pickier.

    Nowadays, Joe Jackass Fratboy and his parent-supported Visa card can surf the web one-handed all day and sign up for any one of a billion* specialty websites (Small Vomiting Asian Chicks VS. Huge Black Dicks -- In The Back Of A Van!), so they get jaded. Until they holler "Dude! DUDE! C'mere! I totally found a website that's all donkey-punching and triple anal, all the time!"

    The plus-side to the cheapness is the rise in real* amateur porn. Not like, some college chick on rohypnol looking all confused while some greasebag shoots baby-batter all over her tramp stamp, but actual (and sometimes unfortunately unattractive) couples filming themselves fucking and posting it to PornoTube or whatever. It harkens back to my personal favorite part of "The Green Door," where they pan to the audience participation bit. That was the first time I ever saw normal people screwing in a movie -- small dicks, saggy boobs, spare tires and all.

    I don't think people are necessarily that much more perverse nowadays than they ever were before. I think the flood of information online, where people with out-there kinks find other unfortunate whack-jobs with the same microkink and decide they should start an online community dedicated to transexual furries who can only get off while masturbating anally with root vegetables and whistling the theme from Starsky and Hutch (or whatever), just makes it more in-your-face. Previously, they probably just hung out in their mom's basement or depressing, smelly apartments, hideously alone and weird.

    Porn has never* been that great of a deal (financially or emotionally) for the people involved, except maybe the distributors. But people still end up being porn stars. It's pretty much impossible to stop people from being stupid or naive or fucked-in-the-head.

    I dunno. My two cents.
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      CommentAuthorFutty
    • CommentTimeDec 13th 2007
     (281.9)
    The flip-side is with people like Andrew Blake, who shoot beautiful, artful, erotic porn on 16mm film. It doesn't get any less gonzo than that. He doesn't do lite Playboy type stuff either. Lots of fetish and hardcore, but with a real eye for beauty and style.
    • CommentAuthorpygmy
    • CommentTimeDec 13th 2007
     (281.10)
    Interesting. While there still was a lot of the fake n' bake orange chicks with frosted lipstick and horrifying fake nails, I actually saw some pubic hair and pale folks. Encouraging. And it does seem like it's more...sexy.
    • CommentAuthorsacredchao
    • CommentTimeDec 14th 2007
     (281.11)
    think the flood of information online, where people with out-there kinks find other unfortunate whack-jobs with the same microkink and decide they should start an online community dedicated to transexual furries who can only get off while masturbating anally with root vegetables and whistling the theme from Starsky and Hutch (or whatever), just makes it more in-your-face.


    I would totally watch that...

    I think you are definitely right about part of the problem being info overload. The good gets buried in the bad, because there is just so much of the bad.
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      CommentAuthorsecretworm
    • CommentTimeDec 14th 2007
     (281.12)
    Andrew Blake's films make me wish I could go straight. Beautiful women that are being objectified in a dignified manner, if such a thing is possible. That there is genuine pleasure and a little kink in there is a nice touch.

    Most str8 porn is dull because it has nothing to do with sex. It's uncomfortably similar to rape except the ladies involved have been forewarned and paid for their troubles. Still.

    Gay porn doesn't have as much gonzo action because there are two different fronts being served. Queers who like to dominate/top are just as satisfied by watching gay porn as the homos who wanna be sub/bottoms. Both sides of the fence can rally derive something from the same piece of porn but from slightly different angles.

    Str8 porn is generally not made for women, who, outside of some niche dominatrix material, are almost always the submissive. Because most str8 porn is geared towards "dom" men, they don't have the same required balance that the gay stuff has.

    Porn of all shades shares one common pitfall: oneupmanship. If Porn Star X takes a gangbang from seventy amputee midgets in February, you can bet Porn Star Y will be gunning to take on 85 stump-fucking dwarves, this time while being pissed on by Latin trannies wearing rat fur bikinis.

    Just sayin'.

    -sw!
    •  
      CommentAuthorpKone
    • CommentTimeDec 14th 2007
     (281.13)
    There is Porn and then there is Shock. Porn is actually about sex, and is derived to envoke sexual stimuli.

    Shock is more of a fetish product. It, like latex and leather and whatever gets your fancy, is designed to stimulate in a totally different way. In the case of Shock films it is designed to get that "No way! That did not just happen!" response. So of course as people get desensitized to the previous "shocking" stimuli a more extreme shock is needed.

    Porn can be Shock material for some. Some people are still shocked by a video of missionary sex!

    So long as you do not mistake Shock for Porn you can sleep at night safe in the believe that your favorite mastebatory aid is safe!

    This is all of course just my opinion...no matter how certain I try to sound ; )
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      CommentAuthorUnsub
    • CommentTimeDec 14th 2007
     (281.14)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    I have nothing against porn but I think all this permissiveness makes sex less fun. My catholic girlfriends always seemed WAY more horny and into sex than the ones with hippy everything is OK parents. Nowadays you really have to go some to do something "bad" which is part of the problem. I am positive that the born again kids who took the celibacy pledge are having much better sex than any of us.
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      CommentAuthorsecretworm
    • CommentTimeDec 14th 2007
     (281.15)
    @Unsub--
    Dude, those born-agains have got NOTHING on my sex life. Trust that. I do things--and well, I might add--that those poor gits are afraid to fantasize about.
    • CommentAuthorpygmy
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2007
     (281.16)
    I second sw's assertion that you might not be correct in your assumptions, Unsub. I grew up not allowed to call anyone a "jerkoff" because that was insinuating that masturbation was bad. I do, however, have buckets and buckets of completely mind-blowing sex. And while I certainly wouldn't categorize myself as "vanilla," I don't think I have any sort of jaded, more-kinks-than-you thing going on, either. I like what I like, some of it's weird, some of it's not. I'm not afraid to try new things, but I'm also not afraid to say that something kinky totally doesn't* turn my crank.

    And thanks to being raised a devout atheist, I don't have the gut-churning guilt and emotional baggage the churchies seem to heap on anything involving fiddling with the pink bits.
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      CommentAuthorpKone
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2007
     (281.17)
    Let's face it, upbringing has some effect on how an individual treats sex. But that effect is completely unpredictable!

    Does a child with a strict Catholic upbringing rebel in their teens and get really hot and kink? Or do they stick with what they know wait till marriage and celebrate your birthday by allowing you 5 minutes of doggy-style to spice things up?

    The same question can be asked of hippies. Does having all that freedom growing up lead to sexual freedom, or do they find that kinky sex reminds them of the noises they heard from their parents bedroom while growing up and refuse to make any sound while having sex.

    I have had good sex and better sex (its hard for a guy to have bad sex) and the upbringing of my partners has never been consistant : )
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      CommentAuthorUnsub
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2007
     (281.18)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    I am saying that maybe their married monogamous sex could actually be more enjoyable to them than your kinky sex BECAUSE of those hang ups with the pink bits.
    The main reason we do kinky stuff like say sex in public is to be a bit naughty and do something exciting and a bit wrong. A comparison would be someone's first shot of heroin compared to a experienced users huge hit with a bit of coke for spice. The churchies could be getting more out of sex because their tolerance is lower.
    Most people assume that because as jaded as we are that type of sex must be as boring for them as it would be for us. As I get older and a bit more perspective I think it might be us who are losing some of the excitement and mystery. Imagine what it must be like for someone who has never masterbated or had sex to finally marry someone they really love and to have it for the first time? If I go a week without some kind of release it is incredible but to go years then have it as a surprise
    and with someone you really love would be a religious experience.Probably several of them actually.
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      CommentAuthorpKone
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2007
     (281.19)
    That was more or less what I meant with the "Or do they stick with what they know wait till marriage and celebrate your birthday by allowing you 5 minutes of doggy-style to spice things up?" For me that wouldn't be spice but for them it would be great.

    I guess whatever it takes for you to have mind blowing sex, you do it! I never jusdge anyone else's sex life. mostly because I don't care to hear about it ; )

    So whether its whips, chains and edible underwear OR just having sex with the lights on, if it gets you off then go for it! Live it up and never let someone tell you what you are supposedly "missing"!