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    • CommentAuthoradrian r
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007
     (30.61)
    Robert Anton Wilson lists those too; I'm wondering what the others are, there being a distinction in my head at least between a euphemism and a booby-trap.
    • CommentAuthorOddcult
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007 edited
     (30.62)
    The 'booby-traps' in Crowley's work are when he details rituals to get in touch with demons and then deliberately leaves out the banishing, for example. He regarded that as fair game to fuck with people who just wanted to do stuff by rote without understanding it.

    There were also examples, such as:

    "To meet the demon Chronazon, take three-quarters of a cup of saltpetre, then grind a well-charred branch of oak wood into this and mix well. Then select some foul-scented sulphur and combine this too with, in a chalice of glass. Now, take a black candle and light it from a fire that has burnt for three days and nights. Chant the name of Chronazon seven times and with a great flourish, bring this flame down into the chalice. This will guarantee you meet the demon, or one much like him."

    Actually, I just made that up, but you get the general idea.
    • CommentAuthoradrian r
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007
     (30.63)
    Thanks, that's helpful. I think where raising demons is concerned, the same rules apply as for eating: don't take on anything you can't keep down.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAlan Tyson
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007
     (30.64)
    Is it odd to believe in magic, and to have experienced it, but to not want to practice it?

    Because that's where I'm coming from.
    •  
      CommentAuthorelizabeth
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007 edited
     (30.65)
    Is it odd to believe in magic, and to have experienced it, but to not want to practice it?

    Funny you should ask that question. I asked Lon that question (more or less), and it may be the only time I've seen him get serious (I mean, when he's not being serious, which he absolutely is in those brilliant books of his):

    Lon Milo Duquette @ Chemsetcomics.com

    OK, so he was also serious when he was marrying my pals Wald & Ruth Ann of The Tarot School. For at least for part of the ceremony, anyway.

    Speaking of Tarot, I'll start that Tarot thread, as I didn't see one...
    •  
      CommentAuthorAlan Tyson
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007
     (30.66)
    Thank you for the link - it was quite nice to read such a thing from the standpoint of someone who's been in this a while.
    •  
      CommentAuthorVespers
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007 edited
     (30.67)
    Not odd at all. It takes a certain, arguably rather insane, type of person to have experienced that sort of thing and want to recreate it.
    • CommentAuthorhank
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2007
     (30.68)
    Lon is great. One of my fellow brothers couldn't think of any thing to ask him that has not been asked yet, so he asked Lon about Skull fucking. To which Lon clasped his hand to his eye socket and exclaimed "Ow Ow My Eye!"
    • CommentAuthorOddcult
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2007
     (30.69)
    Is it odd to believe in magic, and to have experienced it, but to not want to practice it?


    Depends what you mean by magic.

    Poncing around in silly robes, waving daggers and wands can be exciting for a while, then dull, then it makes you feel like an utter muppet.

    But taking what you've learnt about things which increase your luck, or the ways in which you can approach places and things that have some kind of special resonance for you, on occasion can definitely be worthwhile.

    Even if your lucky magic pants' only talismanic effect is increasing your confidence through placebo, then they're still worth wearing if you're going out on the pull. But you shouldn't rely on them too much. Or get any odd ideas about not washing them, so as not to remove their power. That would almost certainly be counter-productive.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAlan Tyson
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2007
     (30.70)
    I guess by magic I mean taking part in that belief system, instead of just holding to it. I believe in ghosts, and places and names of power, and people with a soft but firm grip on their personal realities. I just don't know if I want to take the plunge, I guess, to actually experiencing all that stuff.
    • CommentAuthorKinesys
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2007
     (30.71)
    I don't practice magick anymore. I used to, But i decided to give it up. Mainly because i don't have much in the way of patience, and as i mentioned above in one of "Emile's Journal Entires" I think patience is way important in the practice of magick. ESPECIALLY external magick. To my way of thinking, Magick is a lot like Shoplifting. You can do it and get away with a lot, right up until the point where you attempt to do something you just don't have ability to pull off, and then it's on like donkey kong.

    AoZ: Here are tips for anyone looking to get involved in the Occult.

    1) Develop a good bullshit detector.
    2) Read up on "magic" I.e Any books on cons,scams, hustles, and basic methodology of Stage magicians. Pay close attention to guys like Penn and Teller and James Randi. They may shatter a number of closely held illusions, but there are still things that fall into grey areas. I don't think even Psicop has managed to completely destroy ghosts as a potential supernatural phenomenon. Add all this to your bullshit detector toolbox.
    3) Ask yourself each time you meet someone new. "Is this person fulla shit?"
    4) Listen to Oddcult, (Who i don't always agree with, but who is spot on about a lot of things.)
    5) Be suspicious if asked for money,sex, or a lock of hair.
    6) Like any endeavor that involves other people there will be politics.
    7) Remember that Magick isn't always pretty. Isn't always ugly. Isn't always weird, and is rarely, if ever, Simple.
    8) And finally. The pursuit of Magick is at it's core, a pursuit of truth. Be sure you can handle the truth or you'll just be another poser.
    • CommentAuthorKinesys
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2007
     (30.72)
    Also: that Lon guy is cool. I may have to grab his crowley thoth book and also his book on Qabbalah.
    • CommentAuthorOddcult
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2007
     (30.73)
    Pay close attention to guys like Penn and Teller and James Randi.


    Excellent advice. Also Jim Rose and Derren Brown. All have written excellent books.
    •  
      CommentAuthorGnosus
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2007 edited
     (30.74)
    The best intro into Magickal practice, In my experience, is a crisis point initiation. This can be anything from a lucid dream, to a near-death experience, a massive DMT dose, a nervous breakdown, a suicide attempt, an alien abduction, and an infinity of other possibilities. Basically anything that deconstructs the entirety of the imprints that we percieve as consensus reality.
    • CommentAuthoradrian r
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2007
     (30.75)
    A good understanding of what language makes possible, and sometimes makes impossible (from within a given model) is useful too. And for that I'd recommend Bandler & Grinder's The Structure of Magic I and II; dry as it was written for an academic audience, but good stuff. Wait around and you'll be able to pick up an updated version by Bandler and Eric Robbie. Bandler's Tranceformations is excellent too, if you're getting interested in the hypnotic aspect of language. And while we're on the subject of hypnosis, anything by Milton Erickson is recommended too. See also Monsters and Magical Sticks, by Steven Heller, a contemporary of Bandler and Grinder's who was also into Erickson but didn't get involved in their developing NLP model.
    • CommentAuthoradrian r
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2007
     (30.76)
    And how could I forget Andrew Austin? A British nurse with experience of the psychiatric system and more, Andrew's recently published book tells how he uses his experience with hypnosis, NLP and magic to achieve some remarkable results. Check out the extracts over at http://www.steveandreas.com/RainbowM.htm
    •  
      CommentAuthorAlan Tyson
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2007
     (30.77)
    1) Develop a good bullshit detector.

    Best advice I've heard so far.

    Adrian, thanks again for the further info, though there's something wrong with the link in your last post - it won't open.
    • CommentAuthoradrian r
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2007
     (30.78)
    You can cut and paste the address and click on that instead.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAlan Tyson
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2007
     (30.79)
    Ah, there we go.
  1.  (30.80)
    Both Gnosus and Kinesys are spot on. I especially agree with Gnosus's point about crisis as initiator.

    Oddcult is also right re;
    "Poncing around in silly robes, waving daggers and wands can be exciting for a while, then dull, then it makes you feel like an utter muppet."
    Frankly, if you need robes and such to work change magically, you're missing the point. Sure, the toys and costumes are fun and can be useful under the right circumstances - but magic is mostly about altering your own mental states at will, then projecting that change externally. If you know what you're doing, you can do it empty-handed and naked. Sometimes, especially when naked.

    @adrian r - thanks for the Austin link. Not read him and it sounds interesting.