2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/ Lussumo Vanilla & Feed Publisher http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8296#Comment_8296 2007-12-16T08:33:21-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 immaterial http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=870

Remakes of films are usually cynical and disappointing moneygrabs, with a few exceptions (I enjoyed Demme's remake of The Manchurian Candidate to a degree my indifference to the original would have ...

But consider Grant Morrison's classic run on Animal Man. Apart from the Bolland covers, the writing far exceeded the artists he was given. I'm thinking specifically of Chas Truog. The thing is, the writing is classic: the art is not. Wouldn't it be nice to see some of your favourite comics redrawn by artists who love the stories? Come to think of it, wouldn't it be great to see Bolland actually draw the stories those covers covered? (I know, I know -- never happen).

But wouldn't it be an interesting way for artists to break into the business? To take a classic single issue that's already been drawn and completely reimagine it -- without laying a finger on the text, just throwing out the art and starting over? Then submit it to the company of your choice. It wouldn't be intended for publication, of course.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8300#Comment_8300 2007-12-16T09:00:12-08:00 2007-12-16T09:02:09-08:00 Red Scharlach http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=212

Ryan Bodenheim does this for some parts of his portfolio. If you're curious, he also has a DeviantArt page where he has two pages from the upcoming A Red Mass for Mars by Jonathan Hickman. I do ...

his portfolio. If you're curious, he also has a DeviantArt page where he has two pages from the upcoming A Red Mass for Mars by Jonathan Hickman.

I do see what you mean, though I don't think it's been done commercially.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8301#Comment_8301 2007-12-16T09:12:21-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 Scribe http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=904

Ultimate Spider-man was a remake of the original Spider-man story. Overall it has been good run. All Star Batman on the other hand has been a huge disappointment to me. I don't want to see artist ...

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8302#Comment_8302 2007-12-16T09:19:14-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 Red Scharlach http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=212

What's not to like about All-Star Batman? How does it even qualify as a remake?

All-Star Batman?

How does it even qualify as a remake?]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8303#Comment_8303 2007-12-16T09:33:52-08:00 2007-12-16T09:37:42-08:00 Monk.Eastman http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1233

'Re-imagining' seems to be the latest editorial craze (see Ultimate + All-Star Line or even the Alex Ross/Alan Moore stuff with publicly licensed characters). What was Morrison's recent Seven ...

'Re-imagining' seems to be the latest editorial craze (see Ultimate + All-Star Line or even the Alex Ross/Alan Moore stuff with publicly licensed characters).

What was Morrison's recent Seven Soldiers saga but a great, ketamine-induced remake of older characters?

Hell, our host here on Whitechapel 're-imagined' the New Universe not long ago.

It's getting a bit much.

I mean, it's not long now that we'll be witness to the ungentle sodomy of Archie characters, replete with heroin habits, piercings, and rat-infested squats in the South Bronx.

Some things are better left alone...although if I had to remake a mainstream character, it would be Martian Manhunter. Wow, did they fuck him up. Great potential for weirdness, meta-lensing society, pop culture...literal Heinlein 'Stranger in a Strange Land' character, and they just take a titanic, sweaty beershit all over him.

And they had all sorts of options. What do they do?

"I used to look like He Man with a giant protuberant frontal ridge and receding hairline. Now I'm gritty, because of my giant green penis-shaped head, high collar, and boots. And hey! I'm wearing black now. My nipples are no longer exposed. Gritty.'

I'd start from scratch.

Give him titanic, hentai-like genitals, with which he smacks the underworld of Gotham until the whole place is a starry-eyed, traumatized utopia, and even Bruce Wayne is afraid to leave the house at night.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8305#Comment_8305 2007-12-16T09:48:03-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 Scribe http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=904

"What's not to like about All-Star Batman?" "How does it even qualify as a remake?" It has gotten better over the past few issues, but the early issues felt as if Frank was ...

"How does it even qualify as a remake?"

It has gotten better over the past few issues, but the early issues felt as if Frank was phoning it in. As far is being a remake, well DC marketed it as a retelling of how Batman brought Robin into the family. This current arc is not really about Batman, it's about Robin.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8309#Comment_8309 2007-12-16T10:14:29-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 immaterial http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=870

Re-imagining is fine if you can improve the thing, but that's not really my interest here. Think more in terms of a great script by Orson Welles, but directed by Michael Bay. Doesn't that ...

Think more in terms of a great script by Orson Welles, but directed by Michael Bay.

Doesn't that script deserve a second chance? And should we worry if Michael Bay's feelings get hurt?]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8310#Comment_8310 2007-12-16T10:22:00-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 Monk.Eastman http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1233

Immaterial: If you're talking about creators' personal takes on older material, then really we are kind of talking about Bendis's Ultimate Spider Man or Millar's Ultimate X-Men or the two of their ...

If you're talking about creators' personal takes on older material, then really we are kind of talking about Bendis's Ultimate Spider Man or Millar's Ultimate X-Men or the two of their remix of Fantastic Four.

And that's a slippery slope.

At what point do you add Bruce Wayne's rape by Joe Chill after his parents' murder, just to remain salient and shocking? At what point does remixing the old material thin it out to the point of irrelevance? Alan Moore's 'League of Extraordinary Gentlemen' brought characters of old fiction--the superheroes of their times--into the modern age. Update HIS script 10, 20 years from now, and you have a remix of a remix. It's like an echo of an echo, and that's pretty awful.

At some point, the well really does run dry, and you have to dig a new one. Leave the old stories and characters alone.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8316#Comment_8316 2007-12-16T11:06:25-08:00 2007-12-16T11:14:22-08:00 immaterial http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=870

Monk.Eastman: I'm absolutely not talking about creators' personal takes except in terms of the art. All I'm saying is that some scripts, because they were mishandled, never actually have been ...

I'm absolutely not talking about creators' personal takes except in terms of the art. All I'm saying is that some scripts, because they were mishandled, never actually have been definitively told, and maybe haven't achieved quite the reputation they deserve because of it. A script like that certainly seems to me to be fair game, especially if the new version isn't even intended for publication, but is simply to allow an artist to display their chops to a publisher.

Specifically: there's a great issue of Morrison's run on Animal Man in which the protagonist takes peyote on a desert butte with a Native American and has a vision in which he looks outside of the comic book frame and actually sees the reader (or, as it later turns out, Morrison himself). It's a great bit, but a huge part of the impact is lost because Chas Truog, whatever kind of artist he may have turned into since, at the time didn't know which end of the pencil to use. So you had groundbreaking writing being ignored by a lot of people because the art was almost too horrible to be looked at.

I'd just like to state my position that when I started this thread I never thought Bruce Wayne would wind up being raped by Joe Chill on account of it. Sorry, Bruce.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8319#Comment_8319 2007-12-16T11:10:37-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 Red Scharlach http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=212

All-Star Batman, to my understanding, was the further adventures of the Miller version of Batman. Also, a brilliant pîss-take. Then again, I liked The Dark Knight Strikes Again and am waiting ...

All-Star Batman, to my understanding, was the further adventures of the Miller version of Batman. Also, a brilliant pîss-take.

Then again, I liked The Dark Knight Strikes Again and am waiting quite patiently for Holy Terror, Batman!.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8321#Comment_8321 2007-12-16T11:14:05-08:00 2007-12-16T11:15:42-08:00 Monk.Eastman http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1233

Imm- Hm. Given that stance, I'd very much like to see a lot of the 90s material, specifically all the L*efield influenced toilet paper, re-drawn by creatures with thumbs and fully developed ...

Hm.

Given that stance, I'd very much like to see a lot of the 90s material, specifically all the L*efield influenced toilet paper, re-drawn by creatures with thumbs and fully developed frontal lobes. Favian Nicieza actially wrote some good stuff for titles like (vomit) X-Force, making the best of a bad situation. I'd also like all of the non-Barry Windsor-Smith/Bart Sears stuff redrawn at Valiant. Specifically the Magnus: Robot Slayer shit, because it looked like the 1970s vomited all over itself, and it could have looked amazing in other hands.

PS: Bruce Wayne was asking for it.

PPS: I must be on powerful drugs. I just referred to Magnus: The Robot Slayer, and my testicles didn't explode with fiery divine wroth.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8323#Comment_8323 2007-12-16T11:19:11-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 Red Scharlach http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=212

They're rebooting Youngblood, actually. With Joe Casey and Derec Donovan. P.S. Miller needs to steal Ellis' idea and have Batman wear a necklace made out of the nipples of his victims. Or a ...

Youngblood, actually. With Joe Casey and Derec Donovan.

P.S. Miller needs to steal Ellis' idea and have Batman wear a necklace made out of the nipples of his victims. Or a cross-over with Rapeman.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8328#Comment_8328 2007-12-16T11:31:51-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 Monk.Eastman http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1233

Nah-nuh-nah-nuh-nah-nuh-nah-nuh RAPEMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN! And suddenly, Robin's short pants/thong make absolute sense. The fog has lifted. And yeah, I'm aware of the Joe Casey reboot. ...

And suddenly, Robin's short pants/thong make absolute sense.

The fog has lifted.

And yeah, I'm aware of the Joe Casey reboot. Casey's pretty competent, but at this point, the property's dead. It was only vaguely interesting when it started, and since then, Peter Milligan's beaten the 'hero-as-media star' concept to death. Not much more to say about the subject, and Casey's probably not going to be as entertaining as Milligan.

As for other material that could be better art directed, which I think has sort of become the main point here (cinematic updates to old scripts), I'd also really like to see David Mazzuchelli or Sean Philips take on the first Powers arc. I completely understand why the Bruce Timm style's been in place, but I'd be very interested to see what the old storylines would look like with a different aesthetic. It would be an interesting change.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8336#Comment_8336 2007-12-16T11:54:59-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 Red Scharlach http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=212

What Milligan books are you thinking of?

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8347#Comment_8347 2007-12-16T12:09:55-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 Monk.Eastman http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1233

X-Statix.

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8369#Comment_8369 2007-12-16T14:34:38-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 Bill Reed http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=428

I would probably buy New X-Men again if Frank Quitely went back and drew the whole thing, but then, I'd rather just wait for something new from him.

would probably buy New X-Men again if Frank Quitely went back and drew the whole thing, but then, I'd rather just wait for something new from him.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8372#Comment_8372 2007-12-16T14:44:28-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 Red Scharlach http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=212

Oh right, I'll have to check that out. Bill Reed: The current run on New X-Men is actually quality stuff. Well on par with Mike Carey's take on the X-Men. Do treat yourself.

Bill Reed: The current run on New X-Men is actually quality stuff. Well on par with Mike Carey's take on the X-Men. Do treat yourself.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8373#Comment_8373 2007-12-16T14:45:01-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 joe.distort http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1173

i dont know how i feel about the idea of redoing a script, but the valiant stuff DEFINITELY qualifies. some of it was just so bland-not even bad, just kinda there.

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8390#Comment_8390 2007-12-16T15:52:42-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 Unsub http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1446

It is really tricky to do right and the story has to be solid and the writer has to really be able to add something subtle and important to it. When the first Ultimate Spider man came out I thought ...

When the first Ultimate Spider man came out I thought it would never work because it had been done to death. Boy was I wrong.
The writer has to know what was great about the old material and add a bit more of it. I think this must be way harder than simply coming up with an original idea.
I think I could do a great Batman movie because there are things I both love and hate about the character/series.
Batman should be like Darth vader, rarely on screen but having a huge impact. The story should be mostly about the villians. They are more interesting characters anyway. George Clooney made a terrific Bruce Wayne. Bruce should be as F--d up as batman and a caricature of himself ,like a male Paris Hilton and batman is his split personality. I would have a totally different guy play him.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8425#Comment_8425 2007-12-16T19:01:33-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 Brand http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=455

How many ongoing comics have long runs with the same team of author and artist? I can only think of a few (Ultimate Spider-Man, Alias, Planetary, a few others). In fact that's a personal pet peeve ...

While I do think there are some great artist who do some amazing work, I think I'd rather see them work on new work then going back and redo something that has been done. Sometimes it's best not to mess with what was made in the past.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8427#Comment_8427 2007-12-16T19:29:01-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 Monk.Eastman http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1233

Brand: long term runs -Cerberus -Savage Dragon -Mike Baron and Steve Rude's Nexus plus, of course -Chris Claremont and Anything Stupid.

long term runs
-Cerberus
-Savage Dragon
-Mike Baron and Steve Rude's Nexus

plus, of course

-Chris Claremont and Anything Stupid.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8439#Comment_8439 2007-12-16T23:11:43-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 MusiM http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1297

I would argue that every story is simply a retelling of an older story and on that end it seems fruitless to get upset about someone reinterpreting a character in a new storyline. Every superhero ...

Wolverine is the best example I think of. When his popularity got so big in the 80's to 90's Marvel cashed in on it by introducing a million and one characters with mysterious pasts, antihero tendencies, and violence issues (ie Gambit, Cable, Bishop, etc). And really Wolverine's personality isn't original either. Take the more brutal elements of Batman and combine them with the Hulk and then add a variety of powers guaranteeing the character to one day kill god since god made his healing factor so good and wa-la!

If I knew a bit more about myth personas I would even go so far as to relate current characters to those.

Hell I can do it with music though. Back in Mozart's day (I hate Mozart), it was a compliment to take someone else's melody and make a song out of it. That's a big portion of Mozart's younger work actually. Today if you do it you're bashed to hell for it. One of Led Zepplin's most famous songs, Stairway to Heaven, uses the exact same chord progession as an old jazz tune called Masquerade. Its probably easier to hear for most non-musicians in punk music. Go grab some old 70's punk and then pick a popular punk act today and I'd put money down that at least one of the songs uses the exact same chord progression.

Either way, point being, why not remake since everything already is, intentional or not?]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8556#Comment_8556 2007-12-17T12:13:42-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 joe.distort http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1173

^because "popular punk" is watered down fourth generation shit that serves only to make people think i listen to shitty music when i say hardcore/punk. ;)

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8588#Comment_8588 2007-12-17T16:20:22-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 robb http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=518

i'd love to see some scripts redone (as exercise, not a way to boost profits and let new work die in the hands of pencil hacks), even by the same artist. imagine late recent Sam Keith redoing his old ...

some scripts do not need remakes: remember the Gus Van Sant's "Psycho"?]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=320&Focus=8811#Comment_8811 2007-12-18T21:57:15-08:00 2013-05-26T02:00:15-07:00 Unsub http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1446

One of my favourite bands from my teen years the dayglo abortions made it a point of pride to make every song a black sabbath rip off with obscene lyrics. It actually worked rather well particularly ...

It actually worked rather well particularly on the first album.]]>