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Printheads: [Closed] Robert Kirkman's Mission Statement: Creator-owned is the way to go

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  1.  (3309.1)
    @mercurialblonde
    I don't know, that wasn't what I picked up from him from this video. I don't think he's advocating you start at Marvel/DC. He specifically talks about coming in through indies, working your mid career at Marvel/DC to gain name recognition and then moving back out to the indies to do your creator owned work. I don't see the idea of successful creator owned work being the pinnacle of a comic book career being all that bad a thing really. If you get there without going through Marvel/DC, well bully for you! I also don't think working for Marvel/DC is that bad a thing if that's what you want.

    I think this follow up interview actually fleshes out a lot of what you guys are questioning.
  2.  (3309.2)
    @Stevewallace:
    Well isn't that what everyone is already doing?
    •  
      CommentAuthorchris g
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2008
     (3309.3)
    Man, he really moved me. I mean, I dunno. I'm sure most people won't find his ideas realistic, but what he said came from his heart. And I follow my heart when it comes to my art (rhyme!) And I don't ever wanna do what I do just to hope I end up at a big time superhero publisher so I can do fill-in scripts or get a movie deal. I just wanna push myself and evolve my characters and show people and make em think "This guy can make noise too."

    I also agree with him about making mainstream comics appropriate for kids. Grim Fin Headed Arse-rape doesn't belong amongst the justice league. Things need to go more in the All-Star Superman direction and put out intelligently written stories free of continuity that can be enjoyed by any age group. Or not.
    •  
      CommentAuthorike%morph
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2008 edited
     (3309.4)
    Hello, There...

    Some time ago, (infamous) Micah Wright wrote this:

    "I know what I'd do if I were Joe Quesada. I'd have a copy of Garth Ennis' FURY printed in Publisher's Trade Size format, (not the comic industry's idiotic trade-paperback size book which stick out amongst my hardbacks and paperbacks like sore thumbs, but rather the smaller, 8"x 5" format found in fine bookstores everywhere). Then I'd print "Military Fiction" on the spine and NOT have a comic book illustration on the front, but rather something along the lines of a half-burnt flag draped over a coffin and a machine gun atop that.

    Then I'd send it out to all of the Tom Clancy-type writers of Military Fiction out there and try to get some killer cover blurs from the notables of that field.

    Finally, I'd send it out to Barnes & Noble where the bookstore workers are going to take one look at the cover photo of a gun and bullet-punched flag, check the spine, and file it under "E" for "Ennis & Robertson" smack dab in the middle of the "Military Fiction" section... WHERE IT WILL BE FOUND AND BOUGHT BY PEOPLE INTERESTED IN READING MILITARY FICTION WHO WOULD NEVER HAVE GONE TO A COMIC STORE TO FIND IT. "

    And I'm pretty sure Mr. Ellis wrote something on the same vein on his Come In Alone columns but I don't have the link with me (sorry).

    This is what I'd LOVE to see: Comics by AUTHOR and OUT of the "Comics Isle" at Book shops.

    Sure, today we all can go to Borders and find the latest Love & Rockets trade, but to me it still feels too Ghetto-ized. It still kinda reeks of fanboy's little clubs even at the most exclusive-modern-hyped Bookstore chain... I mean, for every L&R book there are what? 50 Marvel-DC trades? I'm NOT saying there SHOULD"T be Trademark comics at the bookshops; those, keep 'em close to the kiddie isle. I'm talking about getting Authorial Comics a push over them damn TM trades. And please note that I'm not talking about forming "Author Elites" either. I'd just love to see these works getting a little more respect and shinning spotlight that usual.

    I don't know if this could be a reality anytime soon (as it has been noted by others above, there are still LOTS of work to be done), but I surely hope it is the case. I think that this MIGHT be one of comics' last initiation rites. Everybody talks about Graphic Novels, let's see if they can be seen as a little more than just collected Spider-Man comics.

    And yes: there is the question of money... I'd be an hypocrite if I say that TM Comics' money isn't alluring, nor any author should flee at the sight of corporate dough. I think that what people like Ellis, Vaughn, Morrison and even Kirkman do is a good balancing act. (There others of course, but these are the ones that popped in my mind right now). But I think that at the end of the day, THEIR personal projects fill a bigger spot in their agendas (unless your ultimate goal is to "graduate to Marvel", then you're on your own).

    On the other hand, I don't think trademark comics will go the dinosaur route any time soon, if ever. I just don't see it: there's still too much money in them (not to mention nostalgia). It just that it's too marginalized to be taken seriously (in the creative-artsy kinda way, if you know what I mean).

    YES: Authorial Comics SHOULD be the future... We ALL should work for this.

    i.
    • CommentAuthormlpeters
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2008
     (3309.5)
    @ike%morph

    Um... Creator owned stuff can be "trademarked" by the author/authors. Getting a registered trademark is expensive and is not as often done by those outside of corporations, but it certainly CAN be done.

    I didn't see the video, being on dial-up, but I get the gist. I share some of mercurialblonde's concerns, but it's one of those things where we just have to wait and see how it pans out -- and if we have books looking for a home, maybe show them to Image before a wave of big names grab all the attention...

    The industry, as a whole is very different from the days when the original version of Image was formed -- I don't think we're apt to see a repeat of that scenario, except, perhaps on a few isolated books (what's a rule without exceptions?).
  6.  (3309.6)
    @stevewallace

    I should clarify - that's really only a rumor at this point, and the rumor is that it would be only for certain creators on certain projects.

    It's been talked about here.
  7.  (3309.7)
    Just as a general question, why do Moore, Ellis, Ennis and them put their books out on Avatar instead of Image? What does Avatar do that makes it a more conducive home for these creators than Image?
  8.  (3309.8)
    Just as a general question, why do Moore, Ellis, Ennis and them put their books out on Avatar instead of Image? What does Avatar do that makes it a more conducive home for these creators than Image?

    1) Avatar pay money up front.

    2) Everyone benefits from more than one healthy independent publisher, I feel.
  9.  (3309.9)
    Thank you!
  10.  (3309.10)
    I just hope he can mend the Image Universe a bit. I'm a sucker for continuity, and like it when books cna come together but also hope he can make it a unified brand.
    Heard he might write Shadowhawk, that'll be interesting to say the least.
    I have no problems to "Make Mine IMAGE"
  11.  (3309.11)
    If by cohesive universe you mean turning Hickman's monkey rapists loose on that Invincible kid, then I'm all for it.
  12.  (3309.12)
    Writing Shadowhawk would kind of go against this whole creator-owned thing he has going on here.
  13.  (3309.13)
    @mercurialblonde
    No not at all, there are a lot of people who feel Marvel/DC are the pinnacle of a career. That once you get there and get an exclusive you're sitting at the highest point.

    @JuanNavarro
    I really don't think an Image Universe is that good an idea. As they have it now things can cross pollinate but there are just to many books with far to many flavors to even come close to getting something like that.
    •  
      CommentAuthorike%morph
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2008
     (3309.14)
    mlpeters:

    "Um... Creator owned stuff can be "trademarked" by the author/authors. Getting a registered trademark is expensive and is not as often done by those outside of corporations, but it certainly CAN be done."

    Oh yes, I know. I meant Corporate-owned Trademarks: Spider-Man, Batman and the such... I also know trademarking properties can be a pain in the ass (money and paperwork-wise; that's why a mentioned the "balancing act" that some authors do with their OWN projects when they do them WITH said corporations (or even outside the Big Two: Avatar, Image, etc)

    i.
  15.  (3309.15)
    @Stevewallace:
    Who? Name some names. I was trying to think of a list earlier of writers who have gotten to Marvel/DC and who have stopped doing creator owned stuff. Geoff Johns was the only name that readily sprang to mind.
    •  
      CommentAuthorvrbtm
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2008
     (3309.16)
    @mercurialblonde:

    I think the issue isn't so much an absolute abandonment of New Ideas, but rather putting most of the effort towards the corporate IP. In that case, Brian Michael Bendis is definitely on the list. JMS for an amount of time was owned by the company. Terry Moore. Judd Winick. Time will tell if Fraction and Brubaker will arc towards their original stuff (I love Five Fists above all) or their new success at Marvel. My point is that it's not about leaving creator-owned original work for corporate stuff, only putting it on the backburner. I'm not expecting a new POWERS next week anyway.

    You know who rules? Brian K. Vaughan. He cut his teeth in low-profile Marvel stuff, then did some great original stuff, then had 2 or 3 years as big gun at Marvel, and now he's out on his own again. From my perspective, Warren has done that 3 or 4 times now. I think that's a good attitude: no absolutes.
    •  
      CommentAuthorstevewallace
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2008 edited
     (3309.17)
    @mercurialblonde
    While vrbtm named some good examples of current creators I'm talking more about the view of not only a lot of fans but a lot of new creators. A lot of artists and writers coming into the business see Marvel/DC as the peak. They want to do their indy stuff in order to get there and get on an exclusive. Understand this is all just anecdotal from talking to folks at cons and on different creator-centric forums.
  18.  (3309.18)
    I think the overriding variable in the work equation should always be "who benefits?"

    By my math, it should always be me.

    The argument then becomes about trade-offs, making good deals and balancing short and long-term goals -- i.e. properly managing your career. In my mind, if you own nothing then your eventual worth is nothing.
  19.  (3309.19)
    @stewellwallace
    I'm not for an Image Universe like DC pompous windbag universe, I'm thinking more in the snese of branding and a bit cohesion. I'm at a loss a lot of times when looking at thier books and knowing what is what at times, and where I might be picking up stuff when.

    @mercurialblonde
    I think it's like the band formula some artists have: Make it big do a record, and then break up and start something else, before they pigeon hole the fuck out of you.
    In the long run, Marvel and DC need guys like Vaughn, Morrison, and Ellis to shake their books up, to inject new ideas and directions.

    Ad for new creator versus old, I think you just need to see the roster that they have made out there. Some folks, like Act-I-Vate, The Meathaus guys, and Moderntales produce amazing work all on their own, and to come in and tap them for thier talents and even better for their ideas, would be excellent place to look. You don't HAVE to go to Marvel and DC, but since they are in the printing comics business and that what Image is doing, you may look and see what they are doing and bring it in to sell some books.

    A little of both could be great, so that the big creators help fend the new creators and bring in more ideas.
    • CommentAuthorKosmopolit
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2008 edited
     (3309.20)
    This may not be a factor for the writers but from the reader's perspective none reason I prefer Avatar over Image is that Avatar actually seems focused first and foremost on producing comics.

    At times some of the Image studios seem more focused on selling movie options.

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