2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/ Lussumo Vanilla & Feed Publisher http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=606#Comment_606 2007-11-28T16:22:46-08:00 2007-11-29T16:23:39-08:00 Debacle Sam http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=404

Something that has been bugging me for a while. *blanket statement alert!* In a lot of cyberpunk, edgy contemporary fiction, or mundane sci fi musical progression is treated very differently ...

*blanket statement alert!*

In a lot of cyberpunk, edgy contemporary fiction, or mundane sci fi musical progression is treated very differently than social or technologic progression.

What I saying is many times a writer will comment on the crazy music going on in some scene or and it will almost always come across as frustratingly mundane(industrial) or to easy(Korean Reggae!)

If we are all really interested in people pushing the edge and what the kids in the basements are doing while nobody watches, why cant we apply that to music.

I guess I have two points, one is I would like to know what people think about how music is treated in sci fi and if you are annoyed by the fact that sometimes writers who seem to be very cutting edge in so many ways seem to only draw on their college music experience? Am I full of shit? I really don’t know! I just want a discussion. Also this has nothing specifically to do with Warren but Im sure his name will be brought up in the discussion either way.

The second more clear cut point is what do yall think of the new sorta noise/folk/metal world that has been going on for the last 5 years or so? I personally love all types of music from the biggest labels to the guy handing me noise tapes which is number 1 out of an edition of 12 at a show. That being said I am frequently just totally blown away by the stuff being made outside of the clubs in my area, the stuff in the basements being done by people of all ages that really runs the gamut of experimental music . I don’t really think much of it is totally new other than the age of the people doing it and the demeanor, how it has very much been removed from the sterile academic air and thrust into the world of greasey dudes drinking pabst and rocking out.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=616#Comment_616 2007-11-28T16:34:05-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 warrenellis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2

As far as noise/folk goes, some people may remember that I went through a phase of fascination with the Finnish scene -- not the metal, but the weird tribal stuff like Kemialliset Ystavat, the bands ...

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=624#Comment_624 2007-11-28T16:51:01-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 Debacle Sam http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=404

Yeah I finally realized after being so frusterated by the import cost on the Fonal stuff that EMUSIC has almost everything and dove right in, Kemialliset Ystavat's newest is fantastic!

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=641#Comment_641 2007-11-28T17:17:24-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 warrenellis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2

I didn't know that Emusic had Fonal now. Off to start up the Emusic remote, nice one...

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=654#Comment_654 2007-11-28T17:47:07-08:00 2007-11-28T17:47:31-08:00 IdanCohen http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=436

Matisyahu - King Without A Crown Funkenstein- War & Pain Minimal Compact - Next One Is Real All of which, now that I think of it, are Israeli bands with songs in (mostly) english who I've ...

Funkenstein- War & Pain
Minimal Compact - Next One Is Real

All of which, now that I think of it, are Israeli bands with songs in (mostly) english who I've been wanting to pimp out to the internet for a while. Perfect timing, me.

EDIT: Except Matisyahu, of course, that american fuck.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=661#Comment_661 2007-11-28T17:59:34-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 J. Thaddeus http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=286

I don't think that music and technology progress on the same level. Experimental music doesn't necessarily go along with experimental technology. Music is generally nostalgic while technology is ...

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=665#Comment_665 2007-11-28T18:08:07-08:00 2007-11-28T18:09:01-08:00 Mike Black http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=151

-I went through a phase of fascination with the Finnish scene -- not the metal, Frankly, other than Finntroll you're not missing much. (Finntroll being uniquely interesting in the world of black ...

-I went through a phase of fascination with the Finnish scene -- not the metal,

Frankly, other than Finntroll you're not missing much. (Finntroll being uniquely interesting in the world of black metal because all of their songs are polka written on a keyboard.) The real shit, Warren, is in Norway.

-so a sci fi story where they listen to something much older is completely doable.

It still sounds lazy, though.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=670#Comment_670 2007-11-28T18:12:53-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 tulpa http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=408

I enjoy that noise democratized music even more than rock did. Now you don't even need to be talented, you just have to have an ear for good sounds. There used to be a video on youtube of these two ...

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=679#Comment_679 2007-11-28T18:23:48-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 MJSM http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=433

I keep waiting for, like, Cosmicore. Music stitched together from the sounds of the universe. We've got satellites pointing at all kinds of neat stuff out there. Is this already being done and ...

Is this already being done and I've missed it somehow? I remember a website where you could listen to the sounds of certain stars/nebulae/etc. Maybe it's evolved from there while I was looking elsewhere.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=681#Comment_681 2007-11-28T18:33:00-08:00 2007-11-28T18:33:49-08:00 Mike Black http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=151

Sorry to clutter the thread, but.... -Is this already being done and I've missed it somehow? Neurosis, Isis, and the new wave of doom metal seem to be attempting something like this in theory. ...

-Is this already being done and I've missed it somehow?

Neurosis, Isis, and the new wave of doom metal seem to be attempting something like this in theory. In other words, it's just atmospheric.

]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=693#Comment_693 2007-11-28T18:52:25-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 warrenellis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2

There's actually a black-metal karaoke bar in Helsinki. I was once driven past the church that the Norwegian death metal guy burned down.

I was once driven past the church that the Norwegian death metal guy burned down.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=699#Comment_699 2007-11-28T19:01:12-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 Sarpedon http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=113

to add to Mike Black's suggestion of "new wave doom metal" as "Cosmicore. Music stitched together from the sounds of the universe. " The music is from a soundtrack for a film ...

The music is from a soundtrack for a film made from archival NASA footage in the 1980's with interviews from Apollo astronauts. (the youtube video's not from the film.)
I'm not sure either the Neurosis or Brian Eno really fits what I imagine to be criteria for Cosmicore, in that neither is directly derived from extra-planetary data except by way of inspiration.

"Maybe it's evolved from there while I was looking elsewhere." hopefully, though the cynic in me says the 'sounds' probably lack something of the grandeur and emptiness of space, since it's just one kind of radiation or another and isn't strictly speaking 'sound', maybe? I'd be interested to see how the data from say a radio telescope is made into something audible.

More generally, maybe musical futurism is hard because we're in a sort of splintered singularity where it isn't possible to predict with an reliability or intelligence what music will sound like because new genres and subgenres seem to crop up every 3 seconds in someone's basement, just as tulpa's anecdote on the instantaneous noise-rock band seems to suggest.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=706#Comment_706 2007-11-28T19:08:37-08:00 2007-11-28T19:12:01-08:00 MJSM http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=433

I wish I could find that site, it was really neat. Both of those song/videos are very cool, but not exactly what I was thinking of. To toss in an edit here: Personally, I don't think you CAN ...

To toss in an edit here: Personally, I don't think you CAN represent the full impact of the universe just in sound, but I don't think there's any reason not to use those noises, even if they are just radiation, in some genre of music.

I think Sarpedon has articulated my thoughts on the original post here. There are so many new styles of music every day, genres constantly schisming into subgenres which schism even further. Add to that the fact that musical styles in the mainstream are pretty cyclical, with the same or heavily similar styles coming back again and again, and it's all but impossible to predict what we'll be listening to in, say, 3022.

I'm being terribly optimistic here in assuming that there will be anyone around to listen to anything in 3022, of course. Let alone 2022.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=712#Comment_712 2007-11-28T19:18:29-08:00 2007-11-28T19:18:49-08:00 Ariana http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1

Awkward interface, but you can listen to many (space sound) recordings here.

here.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=718#Comment_718 2007-11-28T19:38:33-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 Mike Black http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=151

There's actually a black-metal karaoke bar in Helsinki. I was once driven past the church that the Norwegian death metal guy burned down. It was a beautiful church. I think I badgered you about ...

There's actually a black-metal karaoke bar in Helsinki.

I was once driven past the church that the Norwegian death metal guy burned down.

It was a beautiful church. I think I badgered you about your time in Bergen before. I was a bit of a Black Metal buff a few years ago.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=719#Comment_719 2007-11-28T19:39:05-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 Sarpedon http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=113

Yeah, I agree with you, MJSM, in your point about being unable to represent all of that in a piece of music and that using that data is certainly valid, I was just thinking about the ability of the ...

so even in that recording there's an inevitable amount of human intervention to make it musical. The romantic in me wants the universe to sound immediately beautiful in the same way that Hubble images appear beautiful, I guess.

(though again, are those all true color? etc. there's all the same questions raised about the process in crafting the images, I've seen some images that were shot with infrared sensors on some telescope aray or whatever, so i know those aren't strictly visible in the same way I can't hear the Hawking Radiation from a black hole. eventually I over think to the point that I should just shut up and enjoy it.)]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=725#Comment_725 2007-11-28T19:46:19-08:00 2007-11-28T19:47:04-08:00 Mike Black http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=151

Well it depends on what you want. I doubt, other than what Ariana has linked, we're going to find a huge library of true space sounds. To me, Neurosis kinds of hints at it, but I think Isis is more ...

]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=731#Comment_731 2007-11-28T19:55:55-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 Ariana http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1

Just to kill the magic a little more, I should probably point out that there aren't really a whole lot of direct sound recordings from space. Most sound files you'll find out there are processed out ...

http://bison.ph.bham.ac.uk/sounds/solarsounds.html

Of course, some people might argue that if we have to alter it just to perceive it, it's actually a bit more otherworldly.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=733#Comment_733 2007-11-28T20:02:24-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 Red Scharlach http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=212

I'll make it short for the moment as I'm in a bit of a rush, but I'd just like to point out that the move from folk to noise and vice versa has been going for quite longer than the past five years. ...

And there's already Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music, too, in some respect.

For some reason, when I think future settings and cyberpunk variations, I like to imagine that pop has taken a turn to the likes of Björk meets Nine Inch Nails, and I don't know why that is. Speaking of the latter, what are your takes on Trent Reznor's involvement against the music industry as of late, and his encouragement to try out new forms of distribution, like with the freely available album he did with Saul Williams, one-upping Radiohead's pussy-footing, and the new remix site, where not only does he hand out remixes of his own for free, but actively encourages people to remix his works by providing multitracks? I find it all rather exciting, and I really do enjoy Year Zero.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=795#Comment_795 2007-11-28T21:35:23-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 Jeff P. http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=24

I agree that SF tends to be short-sighted when it comes to music. Novels have the obvious narrative wall to break through, but TV and movie SF are particularly unimaginative. The only exception I can ...

Given as there are now videogames that change with each play, we can hope to someday see digital music that differs with each play. And not ambient stuff but more structured material. The artist who manages this will probably not just create the music, but the mutable medium as well: Music released as applets that launch on your handheld. This will inevitably lead to bands releasing music as viruses.
There have been precursors: There was a King Crimson DVD several years back that had a feature where you could listen to Schizoid man, but mix and match drum tracks, rhythm sections, and guitar solos from several performances throughout the bands career. The DVD then synced the tempos up and played it. There was also an artist (the specifics escape me) who released a six album set on vinyl with the intention that all six albums be played on different turntables simultaneously.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=819#Comment_819 2007-11-28T22:28:48-08:00 2007-11-28T22:31:19-08:00 C.c. http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=463

@MJSM, re: cosmic sounds. I've been experimenting with them in my new band (The Myoclonic Jerks). Nothing viable yet, but lots of potential. Then again, I think all kinds of found sounds are pretty ...

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=824#Comment_824 2007-11-28T22:34:53-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 gwferguson http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=495

"I guess I have two points, one is I would like to know what people think about how music is treated in sci fi and if you are annoyed by the fact that sometimes writers who seem to be very ...

"I guess I have two points, one is I would like to know what people think about how music is treated in sci fi and if you are annoyed by the fact that sometimes writers who seem to be very cutting edge in so many ways seem to only draw on their college music experience?"

Interesting. I hadn't thought about that.

One of my favorite science fiction/rock 'n' roll novels is Little Heroes (1987) by Norman Spinrad and though he was great with the dystopic corporate technology bit, the music descriptions smacked of cybersized 'Sixties pop.

On the other hand, that may have been intentional.

What other SF novels revolve around music?]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=837#Comment_837 2007-11-28T23:38:18-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 Jeff P. http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=24

The fantasy novel Glimpses by Lewis Shiner, but it too sticks with 60s. The comic Savage Henry by Matt Howarth also comes to mind. And I'm having horrible memories of the future disco music of ...

The comic Savage Henry by Matt Howarth also comes to mind.

And I'm having horrible memories of the future disco music of the Buck Rogers TV show...]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=1064#Comment_1064 2007-11-29T11:53:07-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 JaredRules http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=374

"There was also an artist (the specifics escape me) who released a six album set on vinyl with the intention that all six albums be played on different turntables simultaneously." I ...

I know that the Flaming Lips did something like that, but I think it was more like three seperate albums.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=1125#Comment_1125 2007-11-29T13:00:05-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 pygmy http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=636

What other SF novels revolve around music? I don't know if it specifically qualifies as sci-fi, it was kinda more fantasy, but Mieville's "King Rat" was pretty much centered on jungle ...

What other SF novels revolve around music?

I don't know if it specifically qualifies as sci-fi, it was kinda more fantasy, but Mieville's "King Rat" was pretty much centered on jungle and techno music.

I always found the musical references in Transmet amusing.

But I always figured that in the future, pop music would get crappier and crappier, and strange music would get stranger. But I'm all for there being more choices. I can enjoy a wide range of things I like from the last 300 years or so.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=1381#Comment_1381 2007-11-29T20:36:14-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 Debacle Sam http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=404

J. Thaddeus “so a sci fi story where they listen to something much older is completely doable.” I’m not saying at AAAAALLL that there isn’t reason to use older music or whatnot in sci fi, ...

J. Thaddeus “so a sci fi story where they listen to something much older is completely doable.”

I’m not saying at AAAAALLL that there isn’t reason to use older music or whatnot in sci fi, I just feel that for a genre that is “trying to find the future” it does not seem to fully develop music as a futurist idea.

I’m not really asking writers to always invent new styles or genres but looking into how we may soon be buying, selling, performing, collaborating, and writing music in the future is very much within their purview and I would like to hear more of it.

On that note I keep waiting for William Gibson to drop his noise-fuck novel because I hear many people tell me they have played the Cobalt in Vancouver with him in the room and most of these bands are pretty skull huffing.

Mike - “Frankly, other than Finntroll you're not missing much.”

I know it’s not exactly Kvlt but I have been digging Circle quite a lot, Warren if you have time check it out, weirdo-drone-psych-(sometimes)metal from Finland.

Also your points about ShoeDoom like Isis, Neurosis, Pelican, Mike, made me think about my new recent purchase Nadja. Have you heard em? What is your take?

Tulpa – You should totally post that!

Red Sharlach – OH absolutely the history of noise/no wave/krautrock…etc totally fascinates me and I love digging through all of it. What I was talking about was more the recent movents happening on a social level where four kids from the Midwest can blow up in Venice even though they only have hand made cd-rs. Also it does seem like with that added internet layer it has become easier for people to try many types of music which has added a nice air of who gives a fuck to it all. I mean no reason to be hardline attached to any one genre these days so more people are probably going to be checking out the weird shit. Vice versa as well where the hardcore people are totally picking and choosing what parts of the pop matrix appeals to them and leaving the rest to rot.

Jeff P. – “Given as there are now videogames that change with each play, we can hope to someday see digital music that differs with each play.”

Isnt Eno doing a purely generative soundtrack to Spore, or am I making that up?

“This will inevitably lead to bands releasing music as viruses”

I love this sentence more than your examples but HELL YES!

Pygmy – “I always figured that in the future, pop music would get crappier and crappier, and strange music would get stranger. But I'm all for there being more choices. I can enjoy a wide range of things I like from the last 300 years or so. “

I believe its more that the membrane between pop music and strange music would get thinner and thinner and honestly I think nobody would notice because it becomes the paradox that if weird music is pop doesn’t that mean it isn’t weird anymore? I dunno?]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=1390#Comment_1390 2007-11-29T21:13:16-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 tulpa http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=408

While I can't find a copy of the video anymore, I do remember it was called something like "The worst idea for a band, ever." Also, Music as Viruses would be great. I would love a music ...

Also, Music as Viruses would be great. I would love a music player that would have a completely new playlist every morning, because the viruses that day were different, or were modified by other viruses, or something.

Last I heard, everything in Spore would be purely Generative, but it'll be that sort of ambient that's very easy to configure procedurally. It won't be anymore complicated than that.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=1391#Comment_1391 2007-11-29T21:24:08-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 Debacle Sam http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=404

i personally disagree that making ambient sound good is easy even when programming generative music, but i will say that making bad ambient is easy...but I wouldnt expect Eno to do much of anything ...

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=1393#Comment_1393 2007-11-29T21:34:39-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 mrkvm http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=612

Yes, music as viruses. That's lovely. I like the way Kage Baker handled future music and art movements in her Company novels. It would just be subtle references to names of artists and genres ...

I like the way Kage Baker handled future music and art movements in her Company novels. It would just be subtle references to names of artists and genres without any explicit attempt to describe or define what they were.

Shit, I have trouble describing music I like now, so there's no way I'd be able to write about imaginary future music.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=1396#Comment_1396 2007-11-29T21:47:56-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 tulpa http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=408

Nothing critical aimed at Ambient, Sam. I was mostly thinking more that the music will be in the same vein of generated soundscapes that have been done before, rather than an innovation, thus making ...

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=1432#Comment_1432 2007-11-29T23:42:32-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 Exploder http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=488

It would just be subtle references to names of artists and genres without any explicit attempt to describe or define what they were. In a story I did for Nature I used the genre's innate tech ...

It would just be subtle references to names of artists and genres without any explicit attempt to describe or define what they were.

In a story I did for Nature I used the genre's innate tech advances to talk about the music of the future. Specifically, there's a band featured that uses subdermal magnets implanted in their fingertips to basically dig noises out of the pickups' magnetic fields of their guitars. It seems to me that you'd have to talk about strange methods of playing current instruments or creating completely new instruments that can be played in order to create the idea that the music would be strange, rather than trying to describe the sounds themselves. I think you can always talk about pop music, because pop is essentially immutable. Varying from a formula too much and you'll end up outside the pop mainstream anyway.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Flaming Lips did the six record simultaneous play. Boris did a double LP gatefold that also is intended to be played together, though both records stand alone as complete objects. And it's awesome.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=1438#Comment_1438 2007-11-30T00:17:55-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 stevencudahy http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=158

Seems to me that there's a couple of ways it could go. We've reached a stage where anyone who can afford a computer can record music, and the only real limitations (aside from the technical know-how) ...

As far as ambient background music goes, supposing we all end up implanted with systems to monitor our health in realtime, blood pressure, hormone levels, brain chemistry, whatever, and what if you then repurpose those parameters onto some kind of sound generator? What if you can tune into the music made by the person nearest you, or listen in on the noises made by a politician giving a speech, or what if you can take the outputs from everyone in a club and synthesise a music based on the way their bodies are reacting at any given moment? It would certainly up the stakes for podium dancers. What if your home created music based on your physical and emotional state, either to counter distress or to enhance a feeling you wanted to hold onto?

The maths would be terrifying, as would the bandwidth and processing requirements. But we are talking about the future. Anyway, just some random thoughts.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=1439#Comment_1439 2007-11-30T00:20:54-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 stevencudahy http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=158

there's a band featured that uses subdermal magnets implanted in their fingertips to basically dig noises out of the pickups' magnetic fields of their guitars. It seems to me that you'd have to talk ...

there's a band featured that uses subdermal magnets implanted in their fingertips to basically dig noises out of the pickups' magnetic fields of their guitars. It seems to me that you'd have to talk about strange methods of playing current instruments or creating completely new instruments that can be played in order to create the idea that the music would be strange

What Exploder said. I went to make breakfast halfway through composing my post and ended up missing this gem.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=1453#Comment_1453 2007-11-30T00:51:17-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 Exploder http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=488

I can't remember the exact site name at the moment (it was a Boingboing post a month ago or so), but there's a website where you can use black and white and greytone images to create sound. You ...

How about the future of the record? Why even make studio recordings when you have access to immediate recording and distribution of a live show? You could play a new set of improv noise every show and sell it as mp3s within fifteen minutes of finishing your set. Even the construct of the band could become fluid, changing instruments and members constantly, a kind of amorphous sound-making juggernaut.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=1496#Comment_1496 2007-11-30T05:37:08-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 warrenellis http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2

Sam: I know and like Circle's work, yeah.

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=1505#Comment_1505 2007-11-30T06:58:25-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 branjo http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=646

I don't have the text on hand to cite verbatim; however the liner notes of the Eno Box (Instrumental) explains something about him being in the hospital all doped up and listening to Opera(?) very ...

Did anyone follow through with the urge to rip out the mail-in form for L. Ron. Hubbard's "soundtracks" while younger? I couldn't bear the thought of tearing up a book (and I especially hated the impending spine crease), but was always intrigued by the idea of an authour composing a score to a book... (i actually couldn't wrap my head around how he knew how long it would take everyone to read a specific passage at a specific time - i thought the score must have been huge!)]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=1507#Comment_1507 2007-11-30T07:16:43-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 TacoHugsPHD http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=515

On the space sounds into music tip the circuit bent duo I play in has a song that at it's core is the NASA website Saturn radio sounds put into our Casio SK-1 sampler and spit back out all chopped up ...

With the advent and ease of home recording personally I've noticed kind of a death of the style of mid/late 90s IDM (that saddens me) but in rebellion to this computer overload we're seeing some really awesome postpunk (to life the phrase from Warren) fuck with old sturdy technology and lets spit out something magical. The ironic part is that back when bending started Reed Ghazala was very big on circuit bending being a common denominator. That anyone could do it and make some interesting noises / music and we're seeing that now on these deceptively advanced music making programs with genius simple interfaces.

Maybe I'm tainted by all the solder exposure from bending but currently I play in one group that is all constructively broken toys and early digital keyboards and my solo material largely revolves around the awesome sounds you get pushing audio through old reel 2 reels and a modified boom box. (If your interested I rewired the boom-box to run a line in stright into the tape head. Tape heads are designed to run on a very low signal level so when you blast it with a normal or loud signal you get a super overdriven distortion)

A really cool circuit bending documentary video http://youtube.com/watch?v=w6Pbyg_kcEk

A really cool circuit bending video of a cheep kids toy level casio http://youtube.com/watch?v=wlIUtS2da_g]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=1532#Comment_1532 2007-11-30T09:20:53-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 J. Thaddeus http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=286

Can you imagine all the shitty music you'd have to wade through if it was all coming at you in viruses. It would be harder to find good stuff than it is now.

http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=7201#Comment_7201 2007-12-11T20:32:24-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 eggzoomin http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1442

I think there is a problem with new music. In fact, let me rephrase - when I say new, I actually mean innovative - I don't mean regurgitating something in a setting you've not heard it in before, I ...

innovative - I don't mean regurgitating something in a setting you've not heard it in before, I don't mean something that has been released recently.

The problem... perhaps I'd better start with an apology. I'm about to try and solidify some things that have drifted around me, brainbound, for quite a while. This may not make sense and it may be muso bollocks. I think there will also be reference to music theory. My grovelling done, here we go.

Right. I would define music as deliberately arranged sound. "Deliberately" is a loose word - I don't care whether it's through-composed to the finest detail or generated by coding, abstract or concrete. Conventionally, we think of music in terms of melody, rhythm and harmony (yeah, I know, I know, but bear with me).

The 12 chromatic tones that our conventional Western instruments produce are the result of a tone divison system devised by Christian composers to sound "nice." Every possible mathematical permutation of them has been mapped - Slonimsky saw to that neatly. It's perfectly possible to rearrange this temperament - in simple terms, more than 12 notes per octave. Various non-Western musics have used microtonal systems for thousands of years. Unsurprisingly, it has also made its way into the West - John McLaughlin's work with Shakti and even the work of Steve Vai have both featured these ideas. Harmonically pleasant or dissonant, it's been explored. Found sounds, sampling... there are parallels everywhere, analogies to be drawn.

Rhythmically, the boundaries have been pushed, from the aforementioned Shakti to Meshuggah's polyrhythmic grinding to Zappa's SynClavier compositions which play divisions that no human (to my knowledge) could ever hope to. Fast and slow, both have been taken to extremes.

In a world that's seen Stockhausen, Pierre Henri, John Cage, Zappa, Coltrane and (ohfuckitjustputyourownnamesinhere) where can you actually go?

Our brains are socialised with music as much as anything else. Minor/sadface, major/happyface. Let's not be confused by timbre here - I don't care whether you play C,E, B and D on a Les Paul through a Marshall, a synth or a set of tuned milk bottles, it's still a Cmaj9 chord.

I know about the possibilities for control methods - I know that our current methods can be imperfect, so that technique influences composition sometimes and - even worse - sometimes things are conceived that cannot be played; Allan Holdsworth has complained of this on many occasions and his technique is as dazzling on his instrument as anyone that's ever played the damn thing. (Aside: yeah, I know these examples are a bit guitar-centric, but it's what I do; no surprise that it springs more readily to my mind than other things) However - if a control method is just that - a vehicle for expression, not expression itself - then it is the content that we should be concerned with. Would my words really be fundamentally any different if I wrote in French rather than English?

On reviewing this, I'm concerned that it appears fussy and unclear, that it sounds like the whining of an "old world" musician confused and frustrated by the new world and that it involves too much jargon. I'm groping around concepts here. Help me out.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=7208#Comment_7208 2007-12-11T21:10:41-08:00 2013-05-22T22:15:57-07:00 Necros http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1325

If you want to read a science fiction novel that makes music a major focal point try reading Grey by Jon Armstrong....it is published by Nightshade Books in San Francisco It is a truly ...

Grey
by Jon Armstrong....it is published by Nightshade Books in San Francisco

It is a truly impressive first novel, and it really looks at music, culture and fashion in more depth than most science fiction. It is satirical, but at the same time his ideas are truly fascinating and worth thinking about.

Oh yeah, and if you don't want to buy it he has podcasts you can listen to chapter by chapter.]]> http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=35&Focus=7210#Comment_7210 2007-12-11T21:15:08-08:00 2007-12-11T21:15:55-08:00 Corey Waits http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=453

To go back to the first couple of paragraphs of the opening post: I've written a section in my still-being-written Cyberpunk novel (is it still Cyberpunk if it's 20 years too late?) where I try ...

I've written a section in my still-being-written Cyberpunk novel (is it still Cyberpunk if it's 20 years too late?) where I try and describe a truly 'new' sort of music that encompasses glitch, prog, jazz, metal, etc, because I agree; science fiction writers tend to be lazy when discussing music in their fictional realms.
Industrial hasn't been new since, what, the early 80s? The Reggae thing I liked in Neuromancer, but if other people are using it to I would have to assume it's an homage to Gibson, because otherwise it would seem lazy.

Anyway, all I really did was describe the kind of music I want to hear, or what I think it would sound like if I smushed together a handful of my favourite artists in different genres. So even then it's not really 'futurist' because it's just a (hopefully) logical evolution of where music is at now, but hey, at least I'm trying to envision something a little bit original.

Hope that made sense. I would post that section of my story to illustrate my point and because I quite like it, but you know, NO FICTION ;)]]>