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      CommentAuthorDebacle Sam
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2007 edited
     (35.1)
    Something that has been bugging me for a while.

    *blanket statement alert!*

    In a lot of cyberpunk, edgy contemporary fiction, or mundane sci fi musical progression is treated very differently than social or technologic progression.

    What I saying is many times a writer will comment on the crazy music going on in some scene or and it will almost always come across as frustratingly mundane(industrial) or to easy(Korean Reggae!)

    If we are all really interested in people pushing the edge and what the kids in the basements are doing while nobody watches, why cant we apply that to music.

    I guess I have two points, one is I would like to know what people think about how music is treated in sci fi and if you are annoyed by the fact that sometimes writers who seem to be very cutting edge in so many ways seem to only draw on their college music experience? Am I full of shit? I really don’t know! I just want a discussion. Also this has nothing specifically to do with Warren but Im sure his name will be brought up in the discussion either way.

    The second more clear cut point is what do yall think of the new sorta noise/folk/metal world that has been going on for the last 5 years or so? I personally love all types of music from the biggest labels to the guy handing me noise tapes which is number 1 out of an edition of 12 at a show. That being said I am frequently just totally blown away by the stuff being made outside of the clubs in my area, the stuff in the basements being done by people of all ages that really runs the gamut of experimental music . I don’t really think much of it is totally new other than the age of the people doing it and the demeanor, how it has very much been removed from the sterile academic air and thrust into the world of greasey dudes drinking pabst and rocking out.
  1.  (35.2)
    As far as noise/folk goes, some people may remember that I went through a phase of fascination with the Finnish scene -- not the metal, but the weird tribal stuff like Kemialliset Ystavat, the bands on Fonal...
  2.  (35.3)
    Yeah I finally realized after being so frusterated by the import cost on the Fonal stuff that EMUSIC has almost everything and dove right in, Kemialliset Ystavat's newest is fantastic!
  3.  (35.4)
    I didn't know that Emusic had Fonal now. Off to start up the Emusic remote, nice one...
    • CommentAuthorIdanCohen
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2007 edited
     (35.5)
    Matisyahu - King Without A Crown
    Funkenstein- War & Pain
    Minimal Compact - Next One Is Real

    All of which, now that I think of it, are Israeli bands with songs in (mostly) english who I've been wanting to pimp out to the internet for a while. Perfect timing, me.

    EDIT: Except Matisyahu, of course, that american fuck.
  4.  (35.6)
    I don't think that music and technology progress on the same level. Experimental music doesn't necessarily go along with experimental technology. Music is generally nostalgic while technology is futuristic, so a sci fi story where they listen to something much older is completely doable.
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      CommentAuthorMike Black
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2007 edited
     (35.7)
    -I went through a phase of fascination with the Finnish scene -- not the metal,

    Frankly, other than Finntroll you're not missing much. (Finntroll being uniquely interesting in the world of black metal because all of their songs are polka written on a keyboard.) The real shit, Warren, is in Norway.

    -so a sci fi story where they listen to something much older is completely doable.

    It still sounds lazy, though.
    • CommentAuthortulpa
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2007
     (35.8)
    I enjoy that noise democratized music even more than rock did. Now you don't even need to be talented, you just have to have an ear for good sounds. There used to be a video on youtube of these two comedians who got invited over to the Boredoms studio. They started a noise rock band that minute, being given random instruments and being told to do whatever they want. Then Arto Lindsay showed up and showed them how to play guitar. It was classy.
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      CommentAuthorMJSM
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2007
     (35.9)
    I keep waiting for, like, Cosmicore. Music stitched together from the sounds of the universe. We've got satellites pointing at all kinds of neat stuff out there.

    Is this already being done and I've missed it somehow? I remember a website where you could listen to the sounds of certain stars/nebulae/etc. Maybe it's evolved from there while I was looking elsewhere.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMike Black
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2007 edited
     (35.10)
    Sorry to clutter the thread, but....

    -Is this already being done and I've missed it somehow?

    Neurosis, Isis, and the new wave of doom metal seem to be attempting something like this in theory. In other words, it's just atmospheric.

  5.  (35.11)
    There's actually a black-metal karaoke bar in Helsinki.

    I was once driven past the church that the Norwegian death metal guy burned down.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSarpedon
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2007
     (35.12)
    to add to Mike Black's suggestion of "new wave doom metal" as "Cosmicore. Music stitched together from the sounds of the universe. "

    The music is from a soundtrack for a film made from archival NASA footage in the 1980's with interviews from Apollo astronauts. (the youtube video's not from the film.)
    I'm not sure either the Neurosis or Brian Eno really fits what I imagine to be criteria for Cosmicore, in that neither is directly derived from extra-planetary data except by way of inspiration.

    "Maybe it's evolved from there while I was looking elsewhere." hopefully, though the cynic in me says the 'sounds' probably lack something of the grandeur and emptiness of space, since it's just one kind of radiation or another and isn't strictly speaking 'sound', maybe? I'd be interested to see how the data from say a radio telescope is made into something audible.

    More generally, maybe musical futurism is hard because we're in a sort of splintered singularity where it isn't possible to predict with an reliability or intelligence what music will sound like because new genres and subgenres seem to crop up every 3 seconds in someone's basement, just as tulpa's anecdote on the instantaneous noise-rock band seems to suggest.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMJSM
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2007 edited
     (35.13)
    I wish I could find that site, it was really neat. Both of those song/videos are very cool, but not exactly what I was thinking of.

    To toss in an edit here: Personally, I don't think you CAN represent the full impact of the universe just in sound, but I don't think there's any reason not to use those noises, even if they are just radiation, in some genre of music.

    I think Sarpedon has articulated my thoughts on the original post here. There are so many new styles of music every day, genres constantly schisming into subgenres which schism even further. Add to that the fact that musical styles in the mainstream are pretty cyclical, with the same or heavily similar styles coming back again and again, and it's all but impossible to predict what we'll be listening to in, say, 3022.

    I'm being terribly optimistic here in assuming that there will be anyone around to listen to anything in 3022, of course. Let alone 2022.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAriana
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2007 edited
     (35.14)
    Awkward interface, but you can listen to many (space sound) recordings here.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMike Black
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2007
     (35.15)
    There's actually a black-metal karaoke bar in Helsinki.

    I was once driven past the church that the Norwegian death metal guy burned down.


    It was a beautiful church. I think I badgered you about your time in Bergen before. I was a bit of a Black Metal buff a few years ago.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSarpedon
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2007
     (35.16)
    Yeah, I agree with you, MJSM, in your point about being unable to represent all of that in a piece of music and that using that data is certainly valid, I was just thinking about the ability of the sounds to stand for themselves as vaguely musical. The example Ariana gave is said from their website to be "Ambient textures interwoven with actual spacesounds"

    so even in that recording there's an inevitable amount of human intervention to make it musical. The romantic in me wants the universe to sound immediately beautiful in the same way that Hubble images appear beautiful, I guess.

    (though again, are those all true color? etc. there's all the same questions raised about the process in crafting the images, I've seen some images that were shot with infrared sensors on some telescope aray or whatever, so i know those aren't strictly visible in the same way I can't hear the Hawking Radiation from a black hole. eventually I over think to the point that I should just shut up and enjoy it.)
    •  
      CommentAuthorMike Black
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2007 edited
     (35.17)
    Well it depends on what you want. I doubt, other than what Ariana has linked, we're going to find a huge library of true space sounds. To me, Neurosis kinds of hints at it, but I think Isis is more on track. There is a general vibe that gives their music a sense of freshness, and a sense of the future. Especially if that's the next direction of metal (it's not getting any heavier than it is now.)

    •  
      CommentAuthorAriana
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2007
     (35.18)
    Just to kill the magic a little more, I should probably point out that there aren't really a whole lot of direct sound recordings from space. Most sound files you'll find out there are processed out of frequency data, often jacked up into the human hearing range. Here's some sun data: http://bison.ph.bham.ac.uk/sounds/solarsounds.html

    Of course, some people might argue that if we have to alter it just to perceive it, it's actually a bit more otherworldly.
  6.  (35.19)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    I'll make it short for the moment as I'm in a bit of a rush, but I'd just like to point out that the move from folk to noise and vice versa has been going for quite longer than the past five years. Swans started off in the 80s as part of the No Wave movement, and before them, well, the likes of John Fahey and Scott Walker have moved on to noisier stuff. Einstürzende Neubauten started off noisy as Hell and weaved their experiments into something more melodic and subdued. Some credit can go to Blixa Bargeld's involvement with Nick Cave on that one, I feel, but his inspired lyricism always did feel like it would lead naturally into something more alienatingly harmonious.

    And there's already Lou Reed's <em>Metal Machine Music</em>, too, in some respect.

    For some reason, when I think future settings and cyberpunk variations, I like to imagine that pop has taken a turn to the likes of Björk meets Nine Inch Nails, and I don't know why that is. Speaking of the latter, what are your takes on Trent Reznor's involvement against the music industry as of late, and his encouragement to try out new forms of distribution, like with the freely available album he did with Saul Williams, one-upping Radiohead's pussy-footing, and the new remix site, where not only does he hand out remixes of his own for free, but actively encourages people to remix his works by providing multitracks? I find it all rather exciting, and I really do enjoy <em>Year Zero</em>.
    • CommentAuthorJeff P.
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2007
     (35.20)
    I agree that SF tends to be short-sighted when it comes to music. Novels have the obvious narrative wall to break through, but TV and movie SF are particularly unimaginative. The only exception I can think of now is the weird jazz-warchants from the first Lexx movie.
    Given as there are now videogames that change with each play, we can hope to someday see digital music that differs with each play. And not ambient stuff but more structured material. The artist who manages this will probably not just create the music, but the mutable medium as well: Music released as applets that launch on your handheld. This will inevitably lead to bands releasing music as viruses.
    There have been precursors: There was a King Crimson DVD several years back that had a feature where you could listen to Schizoid man, but mix and match drum tracks, rhythm sections, and guitar solos from several performances throughout the bands career. The DVD then synced the tempos up and played it. There was also an artist (the specifics escape me) who released a six album set on vinyl with the intention that all six albums be played on different turntables simultaneously.