Whitechapel - Alice in Freakangeland

Alice in Freakangeland

johnjones — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:56:18 -0700

One thing I find to be interesting is the speed with which the other Freakangels seem to have accepted Alice as one of their own. As of Freakangels 27 we're still within the same day as Freakangels 1. And at the start of that day Alice showed up with a shotgun and tried to kill them. Granted that she was under Mark's telepathic influence at the time, she still tried to kill them.

I can see them feeling a little sorry for her and wanting to help her out. I can even see them beign happy that she kept her head and did her job at the watchtower. I'm a little unsure as to why they'd be okay with bringing her to the Freakcave.

Granted I don't know what the Freakcave is. From context, though, it seems like it's a private place where the 'angels can be themselves and talk openly about the things that they'd really prefer the rest of Whitechapel be ignorant of (such as their mental abilities and the whole "ending the world" thing).

I can pretty much see why Conner would accept Alice, as it's pretty clear he's already got a bit of the thing for her. It does seem odd that Kirk and Karl, who are two of the harder-edged, suspicious member of the 'angels would be okay with it. Or at least not register any dissent. I could easily have seen Kirk at least say "Maybe later, Conner, when we all know each other a bit better."

I'm wonderign if there's something a little special about Alice herself.

Alice in Freakangeland

MDickey — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:00:35 -0700

Perhaps Alice was reprogrammed a bit... 'Sides she's a good introduction tool.

Alice in Freakangeland

RenThing — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:34:12 -0700

Additionally, didn't she have her mind nuked? Seems the Freakangels could get into her head and see what kind of a person she really is.

Alice in Freakangeland

munin218 — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:55:15 -0700

They were in her head.... I'd think they'd know her pretty well by now.

Alice in Freakangeland

Lachesis — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:02:48 -0700

Hm. I saw at as being plausible because

they seem to have a collective sense of responsibility for the world being that way, as they continually refer to themselves as the cause of it, and also because the person who sent her after them was someone they allowed to live when they knew they shouldn't, someone who was also "one of them". It seems like they feel it's their responsibility to make things right with her and for her since her whole family is completely gone.

Also, I kind of think if they didn't help her, it would be hard to justify them as the type that would help all of White Chapel if they wouldn't be willing to help one girl who's life was also destroyed by one of their number.

Alice in Freakangeland

diello — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:32:23 -0700

Hey now, Connor said she'd just made herself an Honorary FreakAngel. I would wager some of the others in Whitechapel know about them, and are welcome in the Freakcave, too.

Alice in Freakangeland

StrangeQuark88 — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:26:34 -0700

They all read her, and Alice is someone who needs them, and they need her as well. Mark brought her to them, as destruction, but that was not her fault. She may not be able to fulfill their expectations, she may backslide, but really I think she will become a crucial element that holds them together. Will she be ~~Kirk's~~LUKE's salvation?

Alice in Freakangeland

johnjones — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:01:07 -0700

One thing that strikes me is the way that Alice treats the 'angels. She has no trouble getting in Conner's face about the ladders, made her point about food to Conner and Kirk in a reasonable way and otherwise conducted herself with the 'angels as though they were equals, powers or not. She doesn't seem to treat the 'angels any differently than she would treat any other person. I suspect thats a rare and wonderful feeling for them, being treat like normal people by a normal person.

We haven't heard a lot from the other Whitechapel residents. I suspect that they tend to treat the 'angels with a certain degree of deferance, even awe. Let's face it, the most of the other Whitechapel people we've seen are members of Sirkka's harem, Caz's assistents and the market folks giving food to Kirk. The only Whitechapeler not like that was Luke's ex-lover, and Luke is treated with a certain level of contempt by the other 'angels. Perhaps unconsciously the 'angels see Alice as a kind of chance to be accepted by the outside world that they destroyed.

Alice in Freakangeland

liamshiels — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 01:49:51 -0700

I think Mark's currently in Alice's head, and he's either exerting some influence surreptitiously (which is unlikely, not Warren's normal approach), or the other Freakangels are actually that nice to people who've they feel responsible for hurting in one way or another.

Alice in Freakangeland

rough night — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 04:55:23 -0700

I think Connor's got the softest heart of the bunch, and the lot of them have an agreement to accept each other's risks, so when he took her in the rest just went with it. It looks to me like they all consider Alice to be his project.

Alice in Freakangeland

obliterati — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 05:21:38 -0700

We haven't heard a lot from the other Whitechapel residents.

Alice also seems to know all about the Freakangels' abilities, she was aware of this even before she showed up with the shotgun. I wonder how many other residents know who they're living with.

Alice in Freakangeland

johnjones — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 09:36:09 -0700

Alice also seems to know all about the Freakangels' abilities, she was aware of this even before she showed up with the shotgun. I wonder how many other residents know who they're living with.

She was? I don't recall that. Alice knew that the other Freakangels were Mark's "family" but didn't know anything about there powers until those powers were used on her. I remember her threatening Conner with the knife and being surprised and frightened because her hand was moving against her will. I also remember Conner explaining to her that purple eyes + pale skin meant "they can read your mind."

Alice in Freakangeland

obliterati — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:25:58 -0700

In episode 5 Alice mentions that she'd encountered Mark's mindreading abilities before, and also explains that such abilities weren't very well-known even to his friends. If Mark hid his talents from Alice's family, maybe the rest of the Freakangels hide their talents too? How many people know about them anyway?

Alice in Freakangeland

diello — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:43:32 -0700

Episode 14, page 2:
Connor: "Not everyone here knows."
Alice: "Is that right? Keep it a secret, do you?"
Connor: "Little bit."

Alice in Freakangeland

kimieye — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 15:45:46 -0800

I think liamshiels, got a good point they feel responsible to her. Also I think as they are constantly living in each others heads if Conner's got a thing for her they are going to have to accept her. Luke and Sirkka non withstanding (because one is a fuckwit and the other it has been stated has a different set of priorities in rebuilding the world) none of the other Angels seem to have very close relationships with anyone but each other.

Alice in Freakangeland

HylianHearts — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 08:03:12 -0800

She's also the one with the most recent information on Mark. For all the "Angels know, he could look differently. But Alice has seen him the last out of the group. He's changed since they kicked him out, maybe not only in looks, but in personality as well. And she would know.

(edit brought to you by The Laptop, which is impossible to type on when daughter pulls at power cords.)

Alice in Freakangeland

Jay Kay — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 13:52:03 -0800

It might also be that, since they're telepaths, they can easily get into her mind and knew that she had no malintent after they wiped Mark's programming on her.

Plus what everyone else said about her having the most recent information on Mark, being someone who treats them as equals, and all of that.

Alice in Freakangeland

johnjones — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 23:56:49 -0800

Also I think as they are constantly living in each others heads if Conner's got a thing for her they are going to have to accept her. Luke and Sirkka non withstanding (because one is a fuckwit and the other it has been stated has a different set of priorities in rebuilding the world) none of the other Angels seem to have very close relationships with anyone but each other.

One thing that's interesting is that we really don't know that much about the sexual politics of the Freakangels. If we listen to Karl, it's all a bunch "crap shagging." However, up to now the only 'angels we've seen in sexual situations have been Sirkka and KK. It would seem logical that at least some of the Freakangels are paired up aside from on/off business between Jack and Sirkka. I'm wondering which 'angel has been with Conner and if she (or he) still has feelings that might flare into jealously along then line. For that matter, if Alice ends up saving Kirk's life, Conner might have competition for Alice's hand.

Oh God, reading this over makes me fear for the inevitable arrival of Freakangel fanfic. God forgive me for what horrors I may have unleashed...

Alice in Freakangeland

Jay Kay — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 06:13:13 -0800

@JohnJones: I'm thinking up Conner/Karl slash-fic and Arkady chicks-with-dicks stories as we speak.

That was a joke, by the way.

Or was it?

Alice in Freakangeland

Flabyo — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 06:15:08 -0800

@johnjones - too late, you've invoked rule 34 now and all is lost...

Alice in Freakangeland

David Matthew — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:10:22 -0800

I'm buying the idea that they keep the rest of the Whitechapelers at least someone both in the dark and distant to themselves, and Alice both doesn't have those hangups -- she'll tell them when they've got a crap idea, obviously -- and that she'd get useful knowledge locked away in her noggin.

Alice in Freakangeland

RichardFannon — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 02:05:39 -0800

As of this date "Freakangel fanfic" is a googlewack - to this thread. That won't last

Alice in Freakangeland

detourne_me — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 03:16:01 -0800

I have a feeling more of the Whitechapel residents actually know whats going on than they let on.. Keeley's mother (the mom of the girl with the runs) had some choice words to say to Miki.

I like the Alice in Wonderland references too. It would be interesting to see how many more allusions can be made... for example I could see Luke as the Chesire cat in a way, and Karl as the caterpillar.

Alice in Freakangeland

diello — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:57:20 -0800

KK and Connor can be Pig and Pepper ;)
Or is Connor the white rabbit? Or is Mark???

Alice in Freakangeland

HylianHearts — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:10:32 -0800

Hell no, KK is the Queen of Hearts.

Or is Kait...?

Alice in Freakangeland

diello — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:23:46 -0800

Maybe KK should be the mad hatter with Kaz as the march hare (re: the drinking scene, hehehe). Then Kait can be the Queen of Hearts :)

Alice in Freakangeland

HylianHearts — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:35:55 -0800

You know, I think that might actually work!

Alice in Freakangeland

johnjones — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 16:59:12 -0800

Miki could be the Walrus. According to others, she likes to talk of many things...

Alice in Freakangeland

mister hex — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:09:13 -0800

I AM the Walrus. No, wait, I'm not.

Miki wants to do all the talking.

Does that make Arcady the Dormouse?

Alice in Freakangeland

johnjones — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:48:56 -0800

You people are going to make me go re-read "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland" aren't you?

Okay, based on what I've seen so far, here's my thoughts on which Freakangel is which.

Mark is the White Rabbit, who leads Alice down the hole and rather dislikes her. He has things to do and places to go. And he does not want to be late.

KK is the March Hare, who shares madness (and invention) with Caz.

Caz is the Mad Hatter who is generally believed to be based on Theophilus Carter, at one time a servitor at Christ Church, one of the University of Oxford's colleges. He invented an alarm clock bed, exhibited at the Great Exhibition of 1851, that tipped out the sleeper at waking-up time.

Arkady is the Cheshire Cat, an alternately comforting and frustrating presence who fades in and out as she chooses.

Luke is the Knave of Hearts, going on trial and offering a poor defense.

Sirkka is the Duchess, ruling over her confusing household.

Jack is the Beastly Baby, cared for by the Duchess but who prefers to roam in the wild.

Kirk is the Caterpillar, staying high above the others and asking the difficult questions somewhat rudely.

Karl is the Dormouse wearing his tinfoil hit to stay asleep and apart from the others

Conner is the Gryphon who helps explain the nature of things to Alice and put the others in perspective.

Miki is the King of Hearts who tries to mitigate the damage done.

Kait is the Queen of Hearts, trying desperately to control her world through Justice, even if she's not quite sure what justice is.

Alice in Freakangeland

diello — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:52:43 -0800

And you've pinned it!!!

Alice in Freakangeland

johnjones — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:29:59 -0800

@ Diello

I just gave my take. There's plenty of other interperatations that are equally valid. Besides, I forgot one.

The hole is the world, which everyone fell through.

Alice in Freakangeland

Eddie Current — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:40:24 -0800

@johnjones

Well said, sir.

Alice in Freakangeland

izip — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:35:06 -0800

So would this all imply that in the act of trying to "fit in" with the Freakangels, Alice will ultimately be the source of their downfall? For in the end, while the strange and magical appear to be in control in wonderland, Alice all along and alone holds the key.

Alice in Freakangeland

johnjones — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:33:57 -0800

@ izip

Eh... I doubt it, but I suppose it's possible. Freakangels is a branch-off/homage to The Midwich Cuckoos and has nothing to do with Louis Carroll's works. Unless it does and we just haven't gotten to that point yet. Alice is the requisite "stupid person" that everyone has to explain things to so the audience gets background and understands what's going on. The fact that she's a compelling character in her own right is a happy occurrence. It's way too early to focus on one character or the other as being the "key" to anything. Any person believing that a certain character that seems to be "the key" will most likely find that Warren has changed the locks.

Alice in Freakangeland

izip — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:08:27 -0800

@johnjones

Granted the Midwich Cuckoos have little to do with Alice in Wonderland or Freakangeland, but just as AIW is not the whole story neither is TMC, so we can't dsmiss the relevance of Alice as a character in her own right and not just a foil lens through which to see the Freakangels. As another perspective on why FA is not as simple as an homage to TMC, Warren mentions other works that come into play as well -- my particular favorite is the Jungian reference to The Drowned World and what influence it may have on the destination of Freakangels (see here). But since the discussion has so accurately cast the characters in Louis Carroll clothes, why not let Alice play her part?

Alice in Freakangeland

izip — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:36:32 -0800

By the way, completely off topic, I did a search and found no commentary on this question, which has unfortunately been fixated in my mind for some time -- which United player is Alice wearing?

Alice in Freakangeland

mister hex — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:55:16 -0800

@ johnjones - When exactly did people stop naming their children Theophilus? And Erasmus and stuff like that?
Love the summation, btw.

Alice in Freakangeland

HylianHearts — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 23:06:28 -0800

Wow. Yeah, that was it, alright. Nicely done, johnjones. Im going to bake you a Alice in Wonderland Cookie.

Alice in Freakangeland

Flabyo — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 02:35:01 -0800

@izip - you know, I don't think we've ever seen her back... She could just be wearing a replica shirt that doesn't have a name and number on it.

Alice in Freakangeland

diello — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:09:21 -0800

@Flabyo
We have seen her back... it's just a replica:
http://www.freakangels.com/?p=28&page=3

Alice in Freakangeland

johnjones — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:08:25 -0700

Surely other people have alternate Wonderland characterizations for the Freakangels.

Alice in Freakangeland

Clarkthehomonculus — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:03:38 -0700

Mark is the Jabberwocky

Alice in Freakangeland

johnjones — Fri, 15 May 2009 17:04:55 -0700

The "new girl" thing is kind of interesting, especially considering that as of a week ago, Whitechapel has received quite a large number of "new" girls and boys. Given Conner's tendency to pick up "strays" you'd think that Alice might be called "Conner's new girl" to denote her attachment to him, but she's not. But they don't all call her Alice yet, either, at least not when she out of earshot. "New girl" sounds like something teenagers would call somebody they consider to be a peer. And the 'angels still have a lot of teenager in them, as witness the little squabble between Miki, Kaitlyn and Arkady in #55. It's easy to forget how mentally young the Freakangels are. We don't know how long they've been together on their own as a unit, but it could be as long as ten years. And in just under a week or so, they've made major steps toward accepting Alice as one of them, even if she's still "new girl."

Alice in Freakangeland

fod_xp — Sat, 16 May 2009 19:31:32 -0700

I like Alice a lot, but the thing about the FreakAngels calling Alice "new girl" stems from them not wanting to get too attached to her.
I fear they expect a deep line command to still be embedded in Alice and one day she'll grab her shotgun and blow one or two of their heads off before they can "pop" hers.
So they call her "the new girl" to show a level of attachment, yet at the same time a level of detachment. I mean what's the point of getting to know someone if you are only going to end up killing her?
Again that is all conjecture, and as stated in volume 2, the FreakAngels never intended to stay in Whitechapel, they were just crashing there as a way station, so they could have called Alice "the new girl" just to stay detached for when they eventually left. But again the FreakAngels are notoriously spotty on planning unless some drastic measures are taken to prod them into taking them.