Whitechapel - Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/ Lussumo Vanilla & Feed Publisher Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10001#Comment_10001 2007-12-28T19:07:42-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 isnotchicago http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=591 Wired.com: Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep In what sounds like a dream for millions of tired coffee drinkers, Darpa-funded scientists might have found a drug that will eliminate ... Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep
In what sounds like a dream for millions of tired coffee drinkers, Darpa-funded scientists might have found a drug that will eliminate sleepiness.

The treatment is "a totally new route for increasing arousal, and the new study shows it to be relatively benign," said Jerome Siegel, a professor of psychiatry at UCLA and a co-author of the paper. "It reduces sleepiness without causing edginess."

Siegel said that orexin A is unique in that it only had an impact on sleepy monkeys, not alert ones, and that it is "specific in reversing the effects of sleepiness" without other impacts on the brain.


Enter the age of the truly 24-hour party people.]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10003#Comment_10003 2007-12-28T19:15:20-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 Scribe http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=904 There are already drugs that do this, but this would probably be the first legalized one. Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10004#Comment_10004 2007-12-28T19:20:46-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 alwayscrashing http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=162 Oh... now that is my kind of stuff, especially if they can give me something that replaces sleep completely. Being awake constantly would be fantastic. Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10005#Comment_10005 2007-12-28T19:25:05-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 alwayscrashing http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=162 @scribe I've never found a non-legal drug that eliminates sleepiness without adding a certain edginess... I've never taken anything that just gives you 'awake and lucid' in a normal way.
I've never found a non-legal drug that eliminates sleepiness without adding a certain edginess... I've never taken anything that just gives you 'awake and lucid' in a normal way.]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10021#Comment_10021 2007-12-28T23:09:24-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 Mr. Pants http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=828 You can already do the same thing with Rhodiola Rosea and Siberian Ginseng. JP
JP]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10024#Comment_10024 2007-12-28T23:15:39-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 sacredchao http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1501 This sounds fantastic. I dislike sleep as it seems a waste of time to me, so I would be up to try it. Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10025#Comment_10025 2007-12-28T23:27:55-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 Rootfireember http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1551 never noticed Ginseng really increasing my wakefullness, but than again, I can do a 6-shot mocha and go to bed... I haven't heard of Rhodiola Rosea. Sounds like a cellphone brand or something. I haven't heard of Rhodiola Rosea. Sounds like a cellphone brand or something.]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10053#Comment_10053 2007-12-29T07:45:31-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 curb http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1334 Wow, like something from one of Iain M Banks' Culture novels. But without the drug glands. Sounds useful, but I like my sleep too much to want to get rid of it completely. Then again, I get my fair ... Wow, like something from one of Iain M Banks' Culture novels. But without the drug glands.
Sounds useful, but I like my sleep too much to want to get rid of it completely. Then again, I get my fair share of sleepless nights (not in the good way) and could do with a decent pick me up every now and again. I'd be interested to know what kind of (if any)psychological changes a person would undergo if they didn't have to sleep.]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10075#Comment_10075 2007-12-29T12:44:22-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 erudite_ogre http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1178 @curb: Yeah, the problem is, while this drug counters the effects of lack of sleep, at least in the short term, how does it deal with long-term effects AND how does it counter the loss of other ...
Yeah, the problem is, while this drug counters the effects of lack of sleep, at least in the short term, how does it deal with long-term effects AND how does it counter the loss of other benefits of sleep? There are some linked articles at the bottom that talk about some of these other aspects. Basically, this may just turn out to be a substitute for coffee, not for sleeping.]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10091#Comment_10091 2007-12-29T14:58:47-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 Exploder http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=488 Isn't REM sleep partially responsible for not going insane? I'm pretty sure there are some profound psychological disorders linked to sleeplessness. Maybe we'll have thousands of completely mad ... Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10095#Comment_10095 2007-12-29T15:24:06-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 erudite_ogre http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1178 @Exploder: There are a number of things that sleep does for us. Not going insane is a very general one :-)! I was thinking about the fact that a number of important cognitive functions are ...
There are a number of things that sleep does for us. Not going insane is a very general one :-)! I was thinking about the fact that a number of important cognitive functions are reset by sleep. For example, our ability to retain and process memories is affected by sleep, and without the proper # of cycles your brain can over time stop working effectively, drugs or no. Healing is facilitated by sleep, and regulation of some bodily functions may be affected by sleep as well.

My understanding is that a lot of this is still tentative; researchers are still perplexed by sleep. But messing with sleep definitely has a number of deleterious effects on the body and mind. So, I take the news of any sleep-elimination drug with a block of salt, although it is an intriguing idea.]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10097#Comment_10097 2007-12-29T16:28:19-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 Jacen http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=343 Modafinil U.S. soldiers are staying awake for days and nights on end in Iraq, and many are almost certainly benefiting from military research into pills that let them work for 40 hours straight, ... Modafinil

U.S. soldiers are staying awake for days and nights on end in Iraq, and many are almost certainly benefiting from military research into pills that let them work for 40 hours straight, without feeling "wired" and without crashing afterward.

Soldiers in past wars have taken stimulants when they can't afford to fall asleep, but these have all had side effects: poor judgment, jumpiness and the need for extra sleep as soon as the soldier stops popping them.

But the new stay-awake pills appear to have no side effects, at least in the short term.

U.S. military studies found that soldiers can stay awake and function alertly for 40 hours, get eight hours of sleep, and then stay awake for 40 more, all without the impaired judgment of old-fashioned uppers.


Personally, I fucking LOVE sleep. I would sleep 15 hours a day if I could still pay my bills. If you had my dreams you wouldn't want to wake up either.]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10099#Comment_10099 2007-12-29T16:54:28-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 curb http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1334 @Jacen. Personally, I fucking LOVE sleep. I would sleep 15 hours a day if I could still pay my bills. If you had my dreams you wouldn't want to wake up either. Damn straight. I've managed to ...
Personally, I fucking LOVE sleep. I would sleep 15 hours a day if I could still pay my bills. If you had my dreams you wouldn't want to wake up either.


Damn straight. I've managed to (not deliberatley) get into a state where the last 2-3 hours of my sleep cycle are some of the most pleasurable, and therefore sanity preserving, hours of what can be an otherwise nasty working day. There'd have to be some seriously good arguments for giving up my 'semi lucid dreamworld/ best surrealist piece of art I can ever create independantly' state to make me even consider giving up my 8 or so hours a night.

@ Erudite_Ogre

Agreed, although I'm not going to claim to have even the slightest understanding of the science of sleep. But I think Shakespeare was definately on to something when he wrote that bit in Macbeth where Macbeth is freaking out because he'd lost his ability to sleep. For whatever scientific reason, humans need to sleep, and this drug won't change that.]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10116#Comment_10116 2007-12-29T19:13:21-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 Glossolalia Black http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=911 There is a disease related to spongiform encephalitis where you lose the ability to sleep, go nuts, and die a painful and horribly fucked up death. This drug might make the death throes perhaps a ... Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10142#Comment_10142 2007-12-29T23:36:07-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 Unsub http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1446 I don't think this will mean you won't ever have to sleep just that you can go longer without it. They give methamphetamine to airforce pilots because they dont want them to fall alsleep in a billion ... These are some exciting times. I remember reading a article in OMNI about designer drugs but nothing really good has come up yet besides ecstasy. I was hoping for something like Spider has.
There is still nothing better than a quality opiate. The synthetic opiates are good but it is like comparing a spirit with a fine wine. It has the same effect but a lot of subtleties are lost.]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10174#Comment_10174 2007-12-30T06:47:51-08:00 2007-12-30T06:53:42-08:00 Andre Navarro http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1561 I'm the kind of guy who hates going to sleep and hates waking up. As you can imagine, I'm a complete disaster in keeping schedules. There's no "sleep at midnight" with me. Sometimes I'll ...
That drug sounds too magical. Keeps you awake without edginess, and you don't pass out as soon as the effect is gone? There's a hidden side effect there, I suspect.]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10178#Comment_10178 2007-12-30T07:28:39-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 Kosmopolit http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1346 There's already a drug which can allow people to stay awake several days straight with minimal side-effects: Provigil. Some people have negative reactions to Provigil but others seem to function ... : Provigil.

Some people have negative reactions to Provigil but others seem to function fine with it. Orexin A is probably similar.]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10181#Comment_10181 2007-12-30T08:09:05-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 Pooka http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=216 There's a psychology professor at Morehead State University who was working on a caffiene injection. She's a wee bit wacky...I don't know too many people who wouldn't rather drink mass amounts of ... I think she's gotten to the point though, that she'd have to drink espressoes constantly to stay alert. She also is in love with her experiment rats...she sleeps in the animal housing room with them, then lovingly cuts off the tops of their skulls to see how the caffiene injections are affecting them...

I understand wanting more energy to get things done..but it can't possibly be healthy to ward off sleep for days at a time....people trying to overcome the natural healthy rythm of life is what's fucking us up alltogether...]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10192#Comment_10192 2007-12-30T10:42:00-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 Paul Duffield http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6 Has anyone ever read 'Sleep' in 'The Elephant Vanishes'? I don't think I *want* to stay awake after that. Seriously though, if this doesn't string you out like caffeine or other stimulants it could ... Seriously though, if this doesn't string you out like caffeine or other stimulants it could be a godsend for deadlines and the like.]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10195#Comment_10195 2007-12-30T11:40:31-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 acacia http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1559 My expert opinion based on a few minutes skimming through Google: Apparently Siegel's issue with modafinil is that it is imprecise (we don't know how exactly it works, just that it's synergistic ...
Apparently Siegel's issue with modafinil is that it is imprecise (we don't know how exactly it works, just that it's synergistic and involves multiple chemicals) yet widely popular, and affects everyone (sleepy or alert) generally, whereas his research into narcolepsy involving dogs/mice or whatnot led him to focus on hypocretins and isolate treatment with orexin A to only affect the sleepy. It all appears very limited and theoretical at the moment, in regards to cause/correlation interpretations in a very specific context. Also, in general it seems there's some interesting things about oral use and interactions with other drugs in the "not a stimulant" and "not an opiate" categories (apparently modafinil and methadone don't go well together, something about hepatic and/or intestinal enzymes), so the intranasal orexin A could be interesting there as well.

When we've got athletes 'busted' for steroids and then talking about these complicated supplements they took that they allegedly didn't realize were steroids and have complex mechanisms of action, and with savvy "illicit" users of many variations around the world, I do wonder how continuing to develop these fuzzy types of drugs/precursors and such will change policies and use/abuse in the future. Then there's the torture/weapons systems, waterboarding and pain rayguns and weep-into-your-beer grenades or whatever.]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10226#Comment_10226 2007-12-30T16:08:37-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 BrianKellett http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=234 As a shift worker, all I want is something that can reset my body clock. I'd just love to not be tired all the time. Fucked up sleep cycles not only bugger your psychology (I find myself weeping ...
Fucked up sleep cycles not only bugger your psychology (I find myself weeping at *commercials* for heaven's sake) but also make you more likely to get such fun things such as cancer, diabetes, depression and commit suicide.

Is it so hard to sleep, or stay awake?* Illegal stuff will just screw you up.

*I've been known to take overdose levels of Diazepam, and not have it touch me, now I'm trying something softer with a SAD light, anything to stop from feeling like shit all the time]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10256#Comment_10256 2007-12-30T22:02:26-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 Chris M Ferguson http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1141 What about the immune system, it needs sleep. Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10274#Comment_10274 2007-12-31T01:38:38-08:00 2007-12-31T01:41:38-08:00 Mr. Pants http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=828 never noticed Ginseng really increasing my wakefullness, but than again, I can do a 6-shot mocha and go to bed... I haven't heard of Rhodiola Rosea. Sounds like a cellphone brand or ... never noticed Ginseng really increasing my wakefullness, but than again, I can do a 6-shot mocha and go to bed...
I haven't heard of Rhodiola Rosea. Sounds like a cellphone brand or something.

Regular Ginseng doesn't really work well. Used to use Siberian Ginseng when I was in college. I found it didn't get rid of fatigue per se, but rather allowed to push it aside like it didn't matter. Korean Ginseng also seems to work well. Regular Ginseng though just doesn't seem to work that way.

Rhodiola Rosea does a lot of different things including increasing concentration, focus, memory as well as increased energy and stamina. Combining it with Ginseng (Siberian or Korean) and Yerbe Mate really gave me a boost during my time when I used to do two jobs (one of them graveyard) on a regular basis. There's quite a few ways to kill fatigue. Hell, you can do it with peppermint and caffeine if you wanted to (at least on a short term basis).

I definitely see how a brain chemical can eliminate fatigue, however, I think doing this on any long term basis is a bit crazy. There is a reason why you sleep. You can get rid of feeling fatigued, but there comes a point when the body has to shut down to rest, heal, recover not only on a physical level but a psychological one as well. I'd question someone's sanity that did this on a regular or long term basis. This is something I'd try on a deadline.

But this really isn't anything new. There are many combinations that can increase stamina and eliminate fatigue on short and long term basises. That said, as someone who's played with my own brain chemistry so I can function on no sleep, I seriously think it's a bad idea to do so long term. I wouldn't recommend it outside of an emergency. But yeah, there are tonnes of ways to do it.

JP]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10342#Comment_10342 2007-12-31T17:30:12-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 Unsub http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1446 The brain is a weird organ and so darn complex I live where we have very very short daylight hours in the winter and lots of people get cranky and sluggish. It is truly amazing what some powerful ... sluggish. It is truly amazing what some powerful lights in the right spectrum can do to change how you feel. I usually don't go in for a lot of the new age
health stuff but I am a believer in light therapy. The sleep thing could work as well ,DARPA has come up with some neat stuff over the ears. I would love to plunder their stash.]]> Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10610#Comment_10610 2008-01-03T10:49:54-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 grenacia http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1323 I would love to have something like this for the mornings where I just haven't gotten enough sleep and need to get up and do stuff anyway. So far I've found nothing that works for me in that ... Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10612#Comment_10612 2008-01-03T10:54:40-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 screaming meat http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1219 It's already out there folks (with extra side-effects, of course); on street corners it retails about £50 a gram? No? Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=403&Focus=10705#Comment_10705 2008-01-04T06:17:12-08:00 2013-05-19T09:59:59-07:00 tmofee http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=522 I remember reading that Faith No More's song Caffiene was written when Mike Patton deliberately kept himself awake for days and then wrote music. I know it's probably very very dangerous, but Ive ...