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    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2008
    Independent Article indicates that a proposed bureaucracy, Form 696, will bring the London scene to its knees (and not in a good way).
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    The form demands that licensees give police a mass of detail, including the names, aliases, private addresses and phone numbers of all musicians and other performers appearing at their venue, and the ethnic background of the likely audience.

    The ethnic background of the audience? What, so they can identify shows likely to incite terrorism? And can’t the London police just use their network of security cameras to check the ethnic background of everyone going into a show anyway?

    Britain is doing a great job reminding me that, as bad as Bush is, at least I’m not living in a police state.
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    The scheme was introduced by the Metropolitan Police after incidents at live music concerts in 2006, some involving guns.

    Typical. A couple of incidents and lo and behold, some wanker comes up with bureaucracy hell and ruins it for most people, who are not making any trouble at all.
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2008
    Yeah, I've heard about that. Apparently, it's a catch-22 situation where, while in theory they it is not compulsory to fill in the information, publicans can still lose their license (!). From what I've heard they target venues where rap/r'n'b etc music is performed...
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    This is awful but I'm not surprised, it's not a new perception. I was putting on some gigs in Birmingham a few years ago and one of the first things every venue asked me was if it was going to be a rap/r&b night because they were worried about problems at those shows.
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    thats so ridiculously racist. although i heard shootings were on the rise at shoegaze/indie rock/suburban white kid shows....oh, no i didnt.

    in all seriousness though, a LOT of places that book shows are leery of rap/hiphop/r&B shows because of crowd violence of a deadly nature. but, a lot of meathead/tough guy-type hardcore bands also get shit shut down for crowd beatings and property destruction (im talking eyeballs coming out of heads beatings, not just fights). so why does the ethnic backround matter at all?
  5.  (4359.7)
    so why does the ethnic backround matter at all?

    It shouldn't. Idiots come in all shapes and colors.
    • CommentAuthorFlabyo
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2008
    They're looking at the stats they have. If those kinds of shows generate more incidents than others then they want to know if you're doing that kind of show so they can up the police prescence.

    Which sort of makes sense, but still makes my brain scream 'wrong wrong wrong wrong' at me for even thinking it.

    It's the whole 'Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics' thing mangled with a bit of 'Correlation Equals Causation'.
    • CommentAuthorstarfire
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2008
    It might not be right but, its a real concern. as an assistant to a former music venue owner ( i say former because he lost his business because of violence at shows) rap and hardcore shows do have the crowds that cause problems. This law may be taking it too far but, im sure my boss would have appreciated someone looking out for his best interest.
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    luckily for me the types of hardcore shows that are at big venues that deal with this stuff are not the good fun kind of shows 99% of the time. venues with security, contracts, barricades etc arent where the fun underground is happeneing, they are where bros, jocks, gangsta core kids (basketball jerseys and nike dunks in the pit=im probably out of place...). same with hip hop. there is a vibrant hip hop scene that has nothing to do with the idiots who keep guns in their cars in my town. people unfortunately get what they deserve when they go to shitty shows sometimes.
      CommentAuthorcity creed
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2008
    the crime/violence is really about the subculture associated with the music, not anybody's ethnicity. For those lucky enough to remain out of range of the British media's howling and gibbering; the last few years here in the yookay, and especially in London, have seen a sharp increase in deadly violent crime among young people - especially at gigs, most recently the stabbing of three people at the London Urban Music Awards in November. Settling a score at a high-profile public event where it will end up in the headlines is now the way to earn teh maximum respect.

    There is a potential for this trend to spiral out of control pretty quickly so authorities feel like they have to do something about it to protect the ticket-buying public. It seems obvious that these scenes are unwilling or unable to police themselves and I'd be the first to agree that it's not desirable to have officials poking their noses into our parties. Red tape and blue pills don't mix well, if you x my y ;) But if you see a pattern where people are regularly coming violently a-cropper at specific types of events, do you just let it go on?

    Having said that, the way the Met are going about it just pisses me off with its moronic failure. This is essentially racial profiling of possible offenders- just like the mentality that says airport security should search all passengers of Middle Eastern origin and not bother wasting anybody else's time. It's an overly simplistic response to a complex situation that will tend to confirm its own flawed hypothesis through selection bias. The level of bureaucratic control-freakery in evidence in the detail required by the form is disturbing. The problem is not that we don't know enough about the people who are putting on the gig for fuck's sake.

    The root problem here is macho fuckheads of every sort coming together to fondle their sensitive egos and celebrate what giant twats they are in a hostile-by-consensus environment of omnidirectional aggression. Perhaps we could push instead for profiling gigs on the ratio of male to female ticketholders and requiring stringent extra security where it exceeds about 9:1 - obviously an exception could most likely be made for Kylie...