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  1.  (4756.1)
    I'd assumed New Caprica was the Terra episode, but I'd be interested to be wrong!
  2.  (4756.2)


    (Via IO9, who point out, with all the gawker media wit, that frak=fuck)

    Get a fuck bucket To-NITE!
  3.  (4756.3)
    This is my show.

    This is 100% my show.

    The fact is this: we have a civilian uprising against a military dictatorship who wants to make peace with the people who killed 99.99% of human life. But the the fact is, making peace is the right choice, becuase otherwise everyone dies and then Cavel comes and laughs his ass off. It is the perfect dilemma, do you let revenge carry you to the point of extinction. Do you forgive the ultimate sin becuase it is the only way there is now hope.

    The military dictatorship are the good guys in every narrative way. But the other side is not wrong in many traditional ethical models.

    Because the rightful civilian government is the masses. And they have chosen death over forgiveness. And that is human history. But they are still the lawful democratic government. And the military is choosing peace, becuase it means life. Pure fucking awesome. World turned upside down.
    And The scene with Gauis and Roslyn both admitting they were religious nut balls? Perfect.

    Pure awesome.

    And no fucking crying.
    And Starbuck is shooing people in the head.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJay Kay
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2009
     (4756.4)
    @JTraub: You basically pointed to exactly what I'm loving about the show right now. It really is a human dillema that has it's right and wrong points. Adama is right in cooperating with the rebel Cylons, since they will give them technology to better survive and, with their being instremental to the destruction of the Ressurection Ship, they have just as much to lose and gain as the rest of the humans. However, the hard-ass libertarian in me can understand and sympathize with the uprising feeling that they are under a military dictatorship and wanting to get away from it. It isn't some half-ass political allegory stuff--they really thought it through.
  4.  (4756.5)
    being instrumental to the destruction of the Ressurection Ship


    Very important to point out. Very important.
    • CommentAuthorchris g
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2009
     (4756.6)
    omfg, I heart Starbuck. There's a woman who takes what she wants.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJay Kay
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2009
     (4756.7)
    @chris g: Yep, heart her too. :D
    • CommentAuthorchris g
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2009
     (4756.8)
    Adama getting some action was awesome. And as always; the ending leaves me soooooo hopeless. This show is the greatest!
    •  
      CommentAuthorCameron C.
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2009
     (4756.9)
    She has more balls than me. :(
    •  
      CommentAuthorJay Kay
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2009
     (4756.10)
    @chris g:

    Well, from the preview afterwards, we know that at least Adama lives until some point next episode. Plus, if the plan is to have him die, I doubt that they could find a better way for him to go out then that.


    There is something I noticed that bothers me, though.

    Why did Lee turn from accepting the Cylon's truce before the battle with the Ressurection Ship, to saying that he can't trust them?
  5.  (4756.11)
    Lee is the ultimate stand in for the issue I described above now, and the best he has been written in ages. He sees that this is trampling democracy, but that the masses are voting for hate and death. I hope the last 7 are this good.
    •  
      CommentAuthoroddbill
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2009
     (4756.12)
    Yes, this is the important stuff - final-cylon/what-is-Starbuck/was-that-Earth only matters in as much as it established the dilemma, but the thing this show excels at, and has always really been about, is this uprising and the questions central to it.

    That kiss was like the fulfillment of a promise. I'm so afraid it might be the last one. And Adama and Tigh grim to the end - that was some iconic shit there.
    •  
      CommentAuthorFinagle
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2009
     (4756.13)
    Yeah, another weekly whipsaw where the writers manage leave me cheering for the military strongmen, robots and religious fanatics to win out over the elected government of humanity. :\ /Babylon 5/ managed to do this sometimes as well, when it worked. Eating it up with a spoon.

    Suck it, democracy; you can't handle the truth!
    •  
      CommentAuthorJay Kay
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2009
     (4756.14)
    Here's a thought I've been having since I saw the latest episode, talking more about the political allegories of the series.

    When the President was making the speech to the people, talking about how both sides hav delt with enormous loss, do you think they were inspired by the Isreal/Palistine conflict? I mean, two groups that are pretty similar, at constant war for centuries and, at this point, fighting just for the sheer hell of it, each responsible with horrific loss of life--I think there's some similarities.
    • CommentAuthorOddcult
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2009
     (4756.15)
    RE: the ending. Clearly a flashbang. not a grenade. No one would be that stupid as to set off a grenade that close to an airlock.
    •  
      CommentAuthoroddbill
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2009
     (4756.16)
    I don't think any of any part of the show has been a direct allegory for anything. Sure they are using knowledge & insight gained from what they understand of known conflicts, but the show has set up it's own unique conditions to explore the nature of genocide, refugees, occupation, resistance, alliances and ethnic conflict. I think it's a mistake to try to read any of it as allegory. In the end, to me, conscious allegory almost always cheapens the thought behind a story. It turns what could be a genuine exploration of something human into a simplistic puzzle of what make believe thing is meant to equal what real world thing. It also carries some presumptions that the author of the allegory is somehow above the real thing and able to make these allegorical judgments of what is really going on, and I don't see the BSG writers making this presumption at any time.

    They take their fictional characters, ask questions of extremity, and try to imagine how those specific people in those circumstances would behave. They don't appear to be approaching these from a position of having pre-judged the moral of the stories, and sometimes I think they've surprised themselves where their story experiments have led. Gaeta a mutineer? That happened by honest questions and honest answers on the part of the writers, and there is no way they knew that was coming from the start.

    So, yes and no, I think what the writers know of Israel/Palestine informs their understanding of the conflict in their show, but no, I don't think it was a direct inspiration for that conflict.
  6.  (4756.17)
    Jtraub, as always, speaks the truth.

    My quibble is tossing in the lip-licking rapist types on Gaeta's side. The "Im a gunna get me a peesa yer wyyyf" was unneeded. The civilans have every fucking right to be pissed. Think about it, they bulk of the fleet have been living on algae (note how they showed the food and how shit it is quite a bit this week) and hope while getting randomly bombed and shot by cylons for years now. Then one day a good chunk of the "heroes" turn out to be cylons themselves, the president goes into hiding the son of the admiral is suddenly in charge and hey, lets make an alliance with the machines who've been hunting us to death.

    Here's a terrifying thought. What if you found out that all the Bush madness (Gitmos, invading Iraq, extraordinary rendition, patriot act) was the right thing to do? That it was, in fact, the right path. The most repulsive actions may have been the only way to prevent total annihilation.

    Tearing people apart, making the "right" decisions ugly and wrong, that's good drama.
  7.  (4756.18)
    My quibble is tossing in the lip-licking rapist types on Gaeta's side.

    That is one of the few weaknesses, I agree, but using Gaeta as the point man was a great choice. He has, beyond nearly every other character, only wanted the best of humanity to win out. His sins have been consistent, when faced with a the possibility those he trusted were in error he goes whole hog in the other direction. My other issue is if you look at the cast shot for season 4:



    Well, I am sure you can see who the cast shot is. I mean Saul Tigh is finally in it even. I note Anders is not, hold on to your head Sam.

    Tearing people apart, making the "right" decisions ugly and wrong, that's good drama.


    I think the interesting thing is the Roslyn (even her place as 43rd in line for the presidency, to trying to steal an election) as Bush deal has been hammered so long that it is easy to miss the show is subtly shifting the game. Zarick, man of the people, is pushing for treatment of an race based on the race's past actions. He is pushing for legal and democratic actions that will lead only to death, based on the race of the individual. Gaeta is a slightly different issue, he is leading a military revolution. I have not thought about the total ramifications of that.

    religious fanatics to win


    I love that both seem to have decided their blind faith was a lie. I doubt we have seen the end of the story on that issue, but the brief conversation where they admitted that to the only people they could, each other, was gold.

    So, yes and no, I think what the writers know of Israel/Palestine informs their understanding of the conflict in their show, but no, I don't think it was a direct inspiration for that conflict.


    I doubt it was their at the start, but it is certainly a wonderful reminder that the actions of a democratically elected body can lead to horror and death. Er, pick which ever group you think I am comparing to which ever group and apply as you see fit. Really, I mean if we push the 13th tribe thing hard enough, go back to the original Mormon inspired show and think it over....
    •  
      CommentAuthorJay Kay
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2009
     (4756.19)
    @oddbill: I...think that's the most uninsulting, through asskickings I've ever gotten on the internet. I feel more enlightened as a human being from it. Thank you. :)
    • CommentAuthorSteadyUP
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2009 edited
     (4756.20)
    My quibble is tossing in the lip-licking rapist types on Gaeta's side.
    I think part of the point is to show that those types will end up on any side. If that guy was in it for good-intentioned philosophical reasons, he'd just want to execute Sharon and be done with it. But no matter how noble a cause is, there are always people on both sides who only want an excuse to fuck people up.

    My personal interpretation on the episode: holy crap; the second-tier characters are arresting the first-tier characters and taking over the show!

    @oddbill:
    In the end, to me, conscious allegory almost always cheapens the thought behind a story. It turns what could be a genuine exploration of something human into a simplistic puzzle of what make believe thing is meant to equal what real world thing. It also carries some presumptions that the author of the allegory is somehow above the real thing and able to make these allegorical judgments of what is really going on
    Two words: Animal. Farm.