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  1.  (4756.1)
    i dearly hoped that this thread would have been closed 4 pages in or so and maybe moved out of sight to someone's blog where it can fester away.
    • CommentAuthorcjtremlett
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009
    Is someone going to keep track of all the times people cry for people to snicker over? I'd volunteer, but I'm debating printing out the drinking game rules and may wind up useless by the end.
  2.  (4756.3)
    I have no idea what I think yet. I expected some of that. I did not expect some of that.

    I recall Mike Carey talking about atheists and writing Lucifer and the j-rpg series Xenosaga. And any of you who did the drinking game are dead from alcohol poisoning.

    Edit: I think I like it. I also think dramatic reaction to some key comments was run over by commercials for Killzone 2 and KFC.
    • CommentAuthorlooneynerd
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009
    The finale was awesome for the first half, decidedly "meh" for the second...
    • CommentAuthorhank
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009

    Hm.. I think I may have to watch it again.
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009
    @looneynerd I agree

    I'm really not a fan of how they ended it with Starbuck.
  3.  (4756.7)
    See, and I like how they ended it with Starbuck.

    My roomate compared it to Deckard as a replicant or not (is she or is she not an angel literally).
    Which I (note: I am an atheist who likes biblical/gnostic motifs in fiction). I really am reminded of Xenosaga...
    • CommentAuthorlooneynerd
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009
    I like the idea that human mythology (at least for some people) ended up being shaped by the events. Ala, Helo, Athena, and Hera all ending up together.
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009
    Starbuck will shortly be appearing in a series by Peter David.
  4.  (4756.10)
    Dropped some comments into spoiler space for now.


    Well, you can see the origin of modern faiths in this is you want. And the literal origin of greek/roman faiths and monotheism. Mythic literalism gave them some answers that otherwise would have been messy (and reminds me of season 1 a bit), and I really am getting a gnostic vibe off that ending. I do actually like all the character endings, tough I need to process a few of them a bit more. Totally unsurprised about the bottom line redemption of Baltar, but then I was arguing for that being likely. They chose a few answers that I think are going to be debated (opera house as partially a projection from Hera to literal angels).

    Favorite (honestly) absurd bit: Rolo Lamkin gets one more shot at awesome.
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009
    just going to hide this whole damn post.

    I liked how they handled Caprica and Baltar about how they really were seeing angels the entire time. I really didn't have a problem with angels being part of the answers.

    To me, the biggest question since Starbuck reappeared was who/what is she. That was the one question I was wanting to have answered in the finale, and they didn't answer it. It's almost as if Ronald Moore didn't have a clue how to explain it, so he just didn't. As someone who doesn't listen to the podcast, I was convinced that she was Daniel's daughter, and that she was a half human/half cylon. The whole, "I'm done" *poof* thing just pissed me off.
  5.  (4756.12)

    I think the Daniel thing, which I argued for myslef, was a misfire. The crew did not realize how we would see that. Otherwise, I think it is now clear she died in season 3 and was as much a tool of gods/god as the literal angels. It is left a open, but more then enough to take that position.
    • CommentAuthorlooneynerd
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009

    Daniel was a mistake according to Moore:

    I was seriously bugged by the really obvious Moore cameo at the end too (Guy reading the magazine).
  6.  (4756.14)

    Yeah, I know, he seemed to realize it enough to be that direct in the podcasts. Moore has always allowed for wild speculation, but the Daniel thing got past them and he went to some effort to shut it down. I argued for it like many people did, and he just went "oh shit". I think it is the rare case of them not having seen an interpretation at all. He admits that as clearly as I have seen in that interview. I would argue for looping that scene for DVD to make Daniel expressly a painter or sculptor. One more line just to get rid of the option of composer. And I dislike after the fact changes like that normally.
  7.  (4756.15)
    I’m happy with it. No deus ex machina, and it was good to finally see Gaius/Caprica and their visions explained. The opera house as projection/prophecy was good. Starbuck felt a little weak, but I’m not unhappy about it.

    I was really moved by Baltar describing God as a capricious illogical force of nature that doesn’t take sides. For me that’s the entire series. It’s a pretty damned subversive idea for a television show, and for them to just drop it in there and then keep on going impressed me. I think that we’ll see more people hitting on that as the show is reexamined down the road.

    I recall Mike Carey talking about atheists and writing Lucifer and the j-rpg series Xenosaga.


    I also think dramatic reaction to some key comments was run over by commercials for Killzone 2 and KFC.

    That’s why I watch almost no live television anymore. We had a nice dinner and dessert, walked the dogs, and settled in to watch it on the DVR.

    I want Bear McCreary to make a symphony out of that gorgeous little Passacaglia. I was so happy to hear it again.
  8.  (4756.16)
    Well I mean I also recall the j-rpg series, that needed a comma badly. Sorry there. Anyway, those two works are just the things I was reminded of most tonight.

    The Carey stuff was in old exit interviews around the end of Lucifer where he was asked about his faith (or lack of) in writing that comic. Like Ron Moore he is an atheist, and I always think atheists do some of the best biblical motifs. I think one of the Carey interviews is at Sequential Tart. Edit: seems to be a more recent interview, but the topic may be readdressed there.

    My views of things tend to settle in the hours after - I really liked this. More then I thought. I suspect some of our friends in the thread are still trying to get sober, becuase the drinking game would have been death tonight.
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009
    I liiked it for the most part. I didn't really need all those flashbacks and the ending coda was a little heavy-handed and cheesy, but screw it. We got an ending. Look on the bright side, they could've ended it with
    the fleet just making one last jump to Hera's coordinates and left it to the viewer to decide what happened next
    - the Sopranos in Space ending, you could call it.
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009 edited
    Didn't drink, still alive!

    Honestly - I really loved the ending. It went some directions I thought, but many I did not, and I was really satisfied with how all the characters worked out. I love how complicated, delicate negotiations get ruined by the sudden consequences of past crimes (that scene with the Final Five reminded me of how the first series of Rome ended, with the secret of the infidelity suddenly returning after many episodes at exactly the wrong moment to ruin the whole world), I loved how Hera really did turn out to be central to the future of Humans and Cylons, and not in any mystical supernatural way, but in the sense that really none of the events that led to the end, down to Starbuck being in the position to do that jump, would have happened if Hera had not existed or been who she was. It wasn't so much her as herself, but her as what others would do for her.

    I loved how they tied her to the mitochondrial eve, which, if you didn't catch it, is a real thing. That issue of National Geographic they showed was real. I loved the use of those real Japanese robots as an ominous note for a questionable future. I really, really loved how our Earth ended up playing into the story, and how Adama decided to name it that.

    I wasn't disappointed that Chip Six, Head Baltar and Starbuck weren't fully explained. I love the intimation that there is a further layer of manipulation, and that it might be God, but that it might be something else... after all, "He hate's being called that." - My new guess is maybe the whole thing is an extremely advanced simulation, and almost one-to-one scale Universe Simulation, and the intelligences running the sim can pop in as avatars of various kinds to observe or tweak the sim - and that in various ways that's what Chip Six, Head Baltar and the resurrected Starbuck were. That's a first impression theory. I'm sure if they were to ever do more episodes addressing that last mystery, they'd do something completely different.

    I'm quite happy for that to remain a mystery though. It doesn't feel like a hole to me, it feels like open, unexplored territory that expands the scope of the story.

    A preliminary list of moments that were way cool:

    1) Roslin talking to the Doctor in the beginning. I'm a sucker for scenes in which people surprise each other with their gratitude.
    2) How the whole Opera House motif came together - especially impressive since, when they first introduced the motif, you know the writers didn't have any idea who the Final Five were, or how exactly it was going to end. Surprisingly, that thread closed way, way better than I had hoped, and really felt like it had been carefully planned all along.
    3) Colonial Cylon Centurion Marines? That was fucking kickass!

    I'm going to need to watch it a couple of more times, but really, a much better ending than I had hoped for, and I actually had high hopes.
    • CommentAuthorhank
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009
    After that fight and the hand to hand I have determined I still want a new model centurion. You know just for the awesome..

    there was one shot where the new models were doing execution style killings on the old models.. it was just a flash but absolutely perfect.

    I am amused by a base star of cylons out there just cruising the stars.. possibly making V'gr?


    Off to bed.
    • CommentAuthorchris g
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009
    that was a real roller coaster. have those old school Toasters appeared before? Or was it just for this finale? I never watched the original series, but I thought it was a nice nerdy touch.

    Totally went "Oh shits" when Chief found out how his wife died. I'd want my own island too after all that shit he's dealt with.