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    • CommentAuthorLani
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009
    @chris g -
    me too, about Chief. I'm glad they finally addressed that, though. After all of that, I kinda wanted to give Chief a hug, but I suspect he'd hurt me.

    I'm going to have to let things percolate in my brain a bit before I can give a solid response. Although I didn't like Starbuck's end, I think I was satisfied enough with the rest.
    • CommentAuthorStefanJ
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009
    Adama's last line was a kick in the gut. Beautiful, sad.

    The flashbacks . . . some were kind of tedious, but a few were jarring and effective:
    Boomer's last favor.

    That last half dragged something awful. Good bits, but too drawn out.

    Yeah, she was some kind of angel this last season and a half. Moore, et al, were too sophisticated to resort to a Ship of Lights, so they left it mysterious. I was expecting her to fly off in the last operating Viper, so just disappearing was a nice surprise.
      CommentAuthorJay Kay
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2009

    Yeah, the flashbacks were a little hit and miss.

    I think Anders was the most effective--he really did make the perfect throw, leading the ships into the sun.

    Overall, fraking loved the finale.
    • CommentAuthorStefanJ
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2009
    Something I am pretty sure about:

    I won't be watching all those spin-offs.
    • CommentAuthorchris g
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2009

    Yeah i still can't process any of it. I thought they would go out in a blaze of glory shooting at robots. And then the 2nd half is like a longass LOTR epilogue. I need ta lie down ^_^
  1.  (4756.6)
    One spin-off (which I expect to be good, but as it will not have any space battle porn I don't expect it to last more then a season), one TV movie.
      CommentAuthorJay Kay
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2009
    I won't be watching all those spin-offs.

    Yeah, Caprica does look a lil' soap opera-y from the preview, but there looks like there could be enough sci-fi stuff to keep it interesting. I'm willing to give it a shot.
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2009
    How does everybody feel, now? Was it worth the time and effort you put in? Did anybody get a death/ending they didn't deserve?

    Kara Thrace? Will you miss her?
      CommentAuthorCameron C.
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2009
    fucking awesome. Caprica looks interesting too. super pumped >:O
  2.  (4756.10)
    Re: Thrace (and other points containing spoilers).

    I suspect I will end up in the minority in very much liking her ending. The character has been defined by this destiny, to bring them to earth, since season 1. There is something elegant about her last scene, something exactly right that she was an agent of the forces that be in the series and she gets her rest now. Her ending up with Lee would have been corny as all fuck after the wise decisions not to do that earlier, and nobody wanted to see Farmer Thrace. It is also a last nod to the old series of course, and as a reflect it might be my favorite ending as ambiguous as it was. Helps is was shot as ti was, there is little question she is just gone. I also like the notion Lee is free now. He is not living in anyone's shadow, or for someone else.

    I actually can't find fault in any character ending so far, though I am still considering Cavil as an unclear issue, not his suicide upon failure (which I accept as he defines himself, others ones exist after all) but his sudden willingness to listen being the part I am not sold on.

    One thought on the destruction of the fleet. Essentially this avoids any chance of them being found. Not said directly, but true none the less. What is ever left of the Cylon fleet would be looking for a needle in a haystack the size of everything. And while the epilogue has some narative quirkiness to it, it also makes it clear the that they will not be found.
  3.  (4756.11)
    The problem with series endings is you get this weird bleed over of the cast's obvious affection for each other with the characters, especially in the "big goodbye" moments.
    I liked how that was kept to a minimum actually, just the Adama/Starbuck thing really

    I liked that Galen is the founder of England. Bringing all his stoic qualities to that isle.

    I LOVED Cavil's ending. He had to be the one to control his own destiny.

    The sense of mystery about Starbuck and virtual Baltar/Six was good as well. Are they just reps of some super-advanced culture running a game for a few hundred thousand years? Or are they angels of the one true God? Is there a difference?

    It's left open, but not in an unsatisfying way. And that's the best thing a show can do. Leave you room to think, disagree and interpret without feeling completely adrift.

    Roslin/Adama was the only thing that really got to me. Their relationship was one of the best written arcs on the show. It never felt forced. it was a relationship between older adults in an age when anyone over forty is assumed to be either desperate, hideous or insane if they aren't with their soulmate.

    A visual thing, I loved seeing them under open skies. The sense that after bing under florescants for years they just wanted to stand on an open plain under the sun. Even New Caprica was a cold grey fishmonger of a planet. This was eden and the cast looked lovely.

    The nerd in me thinks the "lets all be amish" bit was a tad convenient, but it works all the same.
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2009
    I;m going to stop using the hide tags now, because the whole post is jusst a big spoiler. If you haven't watched yet [ don't read this!




    Having let it sit for a while, I'm also now impressed with the bleakness of the end, which is hidden a bit in the fact that it happens outdoors in the beautiful sunlight for the first time since the miniseries.

    38,000 people left from a 12 planet civilization. For 5 years they struggled to keep their civilization, their laws, their culture, their social architecture, from disappearing under the pressure of Cylon assult and internal conflict and at the end they failed.

    As Lee pointed out in Baltar's trial, they long ago lost the genuine rule of law. In the mutiny even the hollowed out but still struggling form of their society ate itself. After that it never got back on it's feet. The expended the last of their resources to secure a hope (not the certainty) of a future for an unknown, unformed next generation. Then, when they find the real Earth in the end, there is nothing left of what they once were. They've lost the will to build it anew, and they essentially all crawl off to private corners of the new world to live out the shadows of their last days and die.

    As far as the extinction of the civilization of the 12 colonies goes, the Cylons won. The only intact survivors are one basestar full of Centurions and any Cylons who might have stayed behind on the conquered Colonies (the show ws never clear on whether the loss of Resurrection tech affected only the branch that followed the Cavil/Six attempt to administer the remnant of Humanity on New Caprica, or if it affected Cylons all the way back to the Colonies.)

    I always figured Adama and Roslin would be like Moses, leading their people to a promised land they could not really enter themselves, but it wasn't just tose two, it was the whole remainder of humanity. Everyone wasn't a Cylon, everyone was Moses. They all died with a taste of their new home, but only future generations from Hera's descendants live in it.

    The rest destroy the last physical remnants of their former civilization as surely as Cavil shot himself in the head, spread themselves thin over the surface of a primal world, and disappear into the prehistoric depths of time.

    The only victory anyone got was the chance to end their days on their own terms, in privacy, with dignity.

    It was really a pretty bleak ending, hidden in the vague shape of contentment. Not something I really expected to happen. Quite a feat for the writers to have pulled off on commercial television.
    • CommentAuthorLani
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2009
    The NYTimes article covering the finale: here.

    The religious bit with god/s did bother me a little last night. Being an atheist, and someone who's a big fan of science and the scientific method, I'm a little tired of moralists holding an act of sublime faith as the only way to save the human race. Being made equivalent to Cavil just gets tiring. I'll have you know that I've been an atheist for 15 years and pro-science my whole life, and I've never tried to saw apart a child, thankyouverymuch.

    On a different note, though, I do kinda want to go Amish myself. But that might be more related to the utter exhaustion and frustration with my thesis this week.
  4.  (4756.14)

    I think the God question can be resolved either way.

    Again, I like the idea that the Six and Baltar and Starbuck are representatives of some great and ancient civilization. Like the "Shadows" or "Vorlons" on Babylon 5 or perhaps the "sublimed" cultures from Iain M. Banks, races so ancient, so developed that they are whiling out the time until the heat death of the universe playing a long game.

    They guide, poke, prod, instigate, encode the coordinates of a healthy planet as music in genetic memory all in the service of some great experiment. Perhaps to see if humanity can escape transcend and join them, perhaps simply to settle some kind of long-standing bet about humanoid life?

    That's a rational, secular view. Other people might look and see that as nothing more than angels serving the will of the divine. I like the openess of it.

    Remember, Adama was an atheist too and never had any namby-pamby spiritual awakening, even in the face of immense loss.
  5.  (4756.15)
    Did anyone catch the BSG theme from the '78 show in the finale?
  6.  (4756.16)
    The religious bit with god/s did bother me a little last night. Being an atheist, and someone who's a big fan of science and the scientific method, I'm a little tired of moralists holding an act of sublime faith as the only way to save the human race. Being made equivalent to Cavil just gets tiring. I'll have you know that I've been an atheist for 15 years and pro-science my whole life, and I've never tried to saw apart a child, thankyouverymuch.

    Pet peeve on.

    My reaction: a review which does actually look at the the writers belief at all, condemns them, and assumes that they must be religious moralists becuase they use a classical motif in fiction is exhausting. It is allergic atheism, and I got past that version of it in high school when my English teacher and I talked about the importance of the bible in western literature. I have been comfortable in my own atheism for a good 15 years now as well, and while I debated the Luddite aspects of the show's end I did not get angry at the faith ones. I expect more of a NYT reviewer than that.

    And as Orwell says: Remember, Adama was an atheist too and never had any namby-pamby spiritual awakening, even in the face of immense loss.

    And he was always my sort of atheist as opposed to Cavil. His atheism was born of personal skepticism, not of anger. I have known a number of "Cavils" and they are choosing atheism not as a position based in logic and science (which we do not see enough of on TV, but that is a different argument), but as a stance against their parents, culture or societies god/s. Which is their right, but it is not a position which venerates science or logic. And it is exactly who Cavil was.
  7.  (4756.17)
    More thoughts.

    I can't say how pleased I am we did not get a non-stop set of happy couple ends. We got a few. Two such endings for the characters who it made absolute sense for (it was the root of the the Agathon and Tight stories), and I can buy the third one becuase it closes the narative circle redeeming the people who ended the world. No Chief and Boomer (or Chief and anyone, which I would be sick of people too at this point. Hell I half am in real life), Roslyn was not magically saved (and I loved her ending too), no - fucking thankfully - Lee and Kara. Let me underline that last one a few times.

    Adama and Roslyn's relationship has been excellent this season, but Moore kept to his guns. She had a few days left at most, no sappy plants and dies in a garden or after a few years at the house. She dies before he finds the location. I really did tear up a bit (yes I admit that) until the commercials.
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2009
    @William Joseph Dunn - Yep, and now that theme has bookended the series. Remember that it was played by the military band on the Galactica in the miniseries way back at the beginning when the ship was being dedicated as a museum of the last war? Thought bringing it back here at the end when it's being burned on a nuclear pyre as a memorial of the final war was a nice touch.

    BTW: Can we all stop using hide tags now? Can we just assume that everyone knows there are massive spoilers in this thread, and if you haven't watched the episode yet you shouldn't risk looking here if you don't want to be spoiled? It seems silly to keep hide tagging the content of entire posts.
    • CommentAuthorLani
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2009
    @JTraub - Was your annoyance aimed at me, the NYT article, or both? I was a little confused. I was more reacting to Lee's speech to Adama about science leaping ahead but leaving souls behind (or whatever he said; I don't quite remember) - that was the bit that annoyed me. I should probably rewatch that part or read the script and see how much of my reaction was a knee-jerk reaction or not. I'll admit the general topic of science/faith is a bit of a sore spot for me. But Lee's speech didn't really seem to jive with the rest of the show, in my opinion.

    @orwellseyes - that is a good point about Adama's atheism.
  8.  (4756.20)
    I plan to use spoilers until the 24th when it airs in the UK.