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  1.  (4756.41)
    At it's best moments, the show hums along as good as any drama on television. But the penchant for melodrama and sweeping grand moments say space opera to me.

    Not to get into one of those obnoxious pigeonholing arguments that populate the rest of the internet :)

    In thinking about the early run of the show I think Moore and the writers just out-wrote themselves. They promised more and bigger and twistier and it just ended up getting muddled and overwrought. When they settled on that planet the show just seemed to take a very definite turn for the silly.
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      CommentAuthorvrbtm
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2009
     (4756.42)
    They said I was crazy! But I am increasingly vindicated. Once more, my postulate:
    everyone is a frakking cylon
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      CommentAuthoroddbill
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2009 edited
     (4756.43)
    Yeah, before this last episode, this is what I thought was going on:

    I thought Doc Cottle was the final Cylon. I thought he was the R. Daneel Olivaw like instigator of the whole multi-millenial cylon project. I thought what happened was that Earth's biosphere got sterilized in a long nuclear/biological conflict, and the remnant population was only human-like machines. These proto-cylons thought took it upon themselves to attempt to preserve and restore the Earth by growing a new, hardier, more perfect strain of humans, essentially cylons, on the new world of Kobol. At some point in that project there was an impasse in that the cylon strains that were fertile, could reprosuce like humans, were weak and fractious, while the ones that were strong and like minded tended to be too machine like and couldn't successfully interbreed. They decided they needed to accellerate the genetic diversity of the project by spreading the fertile, weak cylon population across 12 different environments and the monitor from a distance without interfering , to await the development of a stronger strain.

    Unfortunately for that plan, what happened instead was that the weaker cylon population instead evolved to more and more purely human analogous - to the point they started to recapitulate the old human history - building thinking machines and the power to destroy themselves. At first the cylon observers allowed the first cylon war to happen, but eventually, to save the experiment they stepped in, took secret control of the rebellious "toaster" cylons and incorporated them into their own ranks, removing them from the colonies.

    After this, there was a split in the thinking of the proto-cylons about the experiment, and while Doc Cottle & his side believed in the eventual success of the colonies, the 6's and her side decided that the experiment was useless and they should concentrate on making a breedable strong-cylon directly. This led to the annihilation of the colonies and all those weird breeding experiments done in the aftermath, which did finally succeed in producing a couple of strong-cylon babies (Athena's, Tyrol's and the one the 6 is now carrying).

    Doc Cottle and other strong cylons sympathetic to the weak-cylon experiment (Tyrol, Anders, Tigh) embedded themselves in the colonial population when they knew the 6's would get their holocoust, and traveled with the fleet in sleeper mode (except for Cottle, who was aware all along, and put himself in the position of Doctor in order to a) keep an eye on the experiment and b) keep the other sleepers from being discovered too soon) to keep the experiment alive.

    When Cottle became aware of the strong-cylon babies, and also the weirdness around Starbuck (who I figured was becoming some kind of new super-cylon out of the original experiment, as Cottle at first intended), he decided it was time to wrap the thing up and attempt to plant the new population back on Earth - so he activated the sleepers.

    But essentially, everyone in the show is some brand of cylon or other.


    Of course, this painstakingly constructed position of mine has crumbled since the last episode, but I still think something similar to this is going on - some combination of what orwellseyes said upthread and what Brent Wilcox said above. I concur with vrbtm's postulate. I honestly can't wait to find out how the details shake out!
    • CommentAuthorKenO
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2009
     (4756.44)
    One kind of nit-picky thing that I hope gets resolved is the what's up with Cylon model numbering.

    We have 1-6 and 8, and then the Final Five. Where's 7?

    Certainly one of the final five could be model 7, but they seem to be treating the Five as some kind of extra special cylon.

    It just strikes me as odd -- presuming the models were made in some kind of order -- that the "regular" skinjob Cylons weren't numbered sequentially.
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      CommentAuthorhowyadoin
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2009
     (4756.45)
    We have 1-6 and 8, and then the Final Five. Where's 7?
    I don't think Leoben's number has ever been stated.

    It just strikes me as odd -- presuming the models were made in some kind of order -- that the "regular" skinjob Cylons weren't numbered sequentially.
    Maybe they're named in order of rank or significance.
    • CommentAuthorOddcult
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2009
     (4756.46)
    Can we assume that anyone reading past this point is aware that there are spoilers below, so we don't have to bother with the inviso-text thingy?

    SPOILERS IN THE WHOLE THREAD BELOW THEN. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
































    Okay, so what's going on with Starbuck? Was it her body in the crashed Viper? If so, how did the second version get back? And does this mean that she fits into the 12, or is she something else?
  2.  (4756.47)
    I think my theory's still holding up: This is a sequel to the original, not a remake.

    Also, I don't think Ellen's the final Cylon. I think that's a swerve and that she is an older Six.

    Personally, I'm holding out for Richard Hatch to the be the final Cylon.
    • CommentAuthorOddcult
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2009
     (4756.48)
    My theory is still that it's a sequel to Blade Runner. Adama's going to start making paper unicorns in a bit.
  3.  (4756.49)
    Would Tigh or Adama not recognise either 6 or Starbuck as a younger Ellen.
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      CommentAuthorFauxhammer
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2009
     (4756.50)
    My favorite part of Galactica is that they can somehow make a made-up spaceword sound like a living, breathing curse word with a weight and heft all its own.

    "Frell" never earned that status.

    By the way: If you unironically use the word "frell", please stop because it makes my dicktip bleed a little.
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      CommentAuthorjohnjones
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2009
     (4756.51)
    I don't think Leoben's number has ever been stated.


    He's a 2.

    The various Cylon models and their numbers are:

    Cavil is 1
    Leoben is 2
    Deanna is 3
    Simon (the black doctor) is 4
    Doral is 5
    Six is 6
    7 is unknown but one of (Tigh, Ellen, Tory, Anders or Tyrol)
    Boomer/Sharon is 8
    9-12 see 7.
  4.  (4756.52)
    I was not alive for the first Battlestar Galactica, and never watched a bit of it in re-runs, but it's worth noting that the original series featured nightmare fodder like this.


    So I suppose for all our complaints it could be so much worse.
  5.  (4756.53)
    The subtraction of the boy and his dog directly relates to the success of the new show.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJay Kay
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2009
     (4756.54)
    @RobSchamberger: You say that, and then we find out the freaky bear-dog is the Fifth Cylon and it rapes EVERYONE.
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      CommentAuthorLactamaeon
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2009
     (4756.55)
    I was not alive for the first Battlestar Galactica


    I suddenly feel Incredibly old all of a sudden.....

    but it's worth noting that the original series featured nightmare fodder like this.


    But if you're an eight year old watching the original series at the time ( same age as the "Boxey" character shown above ), you would thing that it was the cooliest thing imaginable.
    Who wouldn't have want a robot dog ( "Dagget" ) as a kid?
    But then again, those were the ' 70's....
  6.  (4756.56)
    @DarkKnightJRK: I actually would like to see Moore's take on the robo-dog. I'm also hoping he delivers on his promise to bring in Battlestar 1980's flying motorcycles.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJay Kay
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2009
     (4756.57)
    @Lactameon:

    I think we're more commenting on how creepy the dog looks. The fact that the picture makes it look like the kid's taking it, err, doggy-style doesn't help.

    @robschamberger:

    You can never go wrong with flying motorcycles.
  7.  (4756.58)
    @Lactamaeon:

    The child was named...Boxey?

    What the fuck was wrong with people back in the 70's? I mean, I assume there was a lot of cheap smoke and good coke, but fucking BOXEY? Why not name the little fucking "Table" or "Objecty" or "Coffin-fodder"?
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      CommentAuthorFauxhammer
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2009
     (4756.59)
    OG Galactica brought me one of the first crushing disapointments of my young life: I'd received a Cylon Raider toy that was one of the first generation that had non-firing plastic missiles.

    It set the stage for a lot of my future expectations.
    • CommentAuthorOddcult
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2009
     (4756.60)
    The kid featured very, very briefly, to tell someone fo frak off because his parents were dead and he was going to slit his own wrists whilst listening to The Cure, or something similar.

    Would Tigh or Adama not recognise either 6 or Starbuck as a younger Ellen.


    True. But either way, we're still left with the issue of who the body in the Viper was.