Whitechapel - Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T10:36:21-08:00

Living in DC I just don't feel it. Both parties are about the same and honestly, theres no change on the horizon, at least until China crashes our economy and we go all Mad Max.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T13:06:24-08:00

I can't decide whether a Hilary or an Obama presidency would piss off the most of the people in the US that I'd like to piss off.

I do have some predictions for the future, though:

If a Democrat wins, the next X-Files movie will be a hit, possibly leading to a new tv series (or one in a similar vein) and also a massive rise in the number of UFO sightings.

If a Republican gets in, there will be a massive rise in tongue splitting and other extreme body modification. Possibly going mainstream to the extent that tattoos have.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T13:06:32-08:00

I vote crashing our own economy and going Mad Max... but who am I to tell others what to do...

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T13:08:50-08:00

If tattooed UFOs showed up I guess we'd all be screwed.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T13:08:53-08:00

Actually, I badly want a Clinton/Obama ticket, just to see exactly what political dirty tricks *really* look like...

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T13:33:22-08:00

Evan Bayh ain't out of this yet. Who knows in what capacity, however there was a story in the Indianapolis Star about 2 weeks ago (on a Saturday, you know, the slowest news day) stating a recent poll of Indiana residents said they are pretty much over Bush, and that they would vote Democratic if Bayh was on a ticket, which would technically make Indiana a Blue State for the first time since, like, 1972.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T13:53:50-08:00

You mean it really matters if a Democrat or Republican wins the Presidency? Color me jaded.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T14:15:50-08:00

I'm voting for Ron Paul. No I'm not a diehard follower, I just know the guy will lose and then for the next 4 / 8 years I can tell anyone and everyone "if you would've voted for Ron Paul like me the NYSE/economy/USD/banks/Tetris/NASDAQ would not have crashed," and none will be the wiser.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T14:35:55-08:00

Yeah but you can say the exact same thing about Dennis Kucinich and not have that nasty GOP odor follow you as well.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T15:27:32-08:00

Ron Paul has some very radical sympathizers. I highly recommend you check him out more thoroughly before you cast your lot in with him. It spooked me when i read Kucinich made a statement about making Paul his VP. That joke is not funny, nor is it a good gadfly remark.

Paul's stance on no government is not really going to work regardless. We need some kind of bureaucracy to create red tape regulations for the corporations, even if right now, they are working hand in hand. Norquist loves Ron Paul. That's a very bad thing indeed.

I used to bet on martial law and suspended elections. Now it looks like Bush wants out, to retire to cut brush. Maybe Giuliani will play Cheney's new hand puppet, but this newest scandal with the allocation of New York City's funds to hide his affairs might take hold. The election itself seems irrelevant. Both 2000 and 2004 were rigged.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T15:46:10-08:00

I'd rather see Obama than Clinton, as I'm a little disturbed by the subtle affirmations of Clinton from the other side and the party that she's the one they can beat. I see the incumbents wanting most a President willing to tip the boat the least, and of the two of the them, Obama seems more likely to upset the status quo.

That said, politics is horrible.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T15:56:35-08:00

I'm voting for Pedro...

Seriously, I have no clue where my vote is going yet. I'm not happy with any of the field, regardless their label, and I've already grown tired of the handfuls of dirt starting to fly. Then again, I detest politics, really. The whole process just seems so...Fake? Pointless? I don't know...

Although, I get a kick out of watching Al Gore pretend to be Captain Planet...

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T16:50:44-08:00

It's a little bit pointless. Like, if you're expecting that someone good will get in and then things'll be better for people, then it's pointless.

The things that the President can really do, and the ways in which it matters who it is, are: how we're represented to the rest of the world; who gets appointed to which positions; how transparently the administration is run (and, by extension, how much dubious authority they take on); and whether or not troops are committed to police action somewhere.

That's about it. A good President won't repair the falling dollar, won't get us out of Iraq, won't create jobs, won't do any of the really interesting or progressive things you've been hoping for, because that's not the President's job. The President's job is to represent us and make appointments. Expecting that your vote could affect anything else is only setting yourself up for disappointment. If being represented well and having sane people who aren't trying to accelerate armageddon appointed to various offices appeals to you, then there's a reason to care. If you don't see a difference between the parties in those two categories, then sitting it out's probably for the best.

--d

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T17:05:29-08:00

The president still has a lot of power to throw around beyond just making appointments and not making an ass of itself in front of foreign dignitaries; look at how the Congressional Republicans followed orders for the first four years of Bush? They were drafting bills according to a presidential agenda rather than according to what was in the interests of their constituency. I don't think that would happen with the Dems in the case of Hilary or Obama, but if either of them were to not veto every single progressive piece of legislation that came across the desk they'd be affecting a whole lot of things, up to and including the dollar, jobs and the armed forces.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T18:15:02-08:00

I live in D.C. as well, so I learned to ride a horse. That way when the modern world comes crashing down I can steal a damn park police horse and get away. The environmental crisis is a more pressing concern.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T18:34:48-08:00

"I live in D.C. as well, so I learned to ride a horse. "
that makes it sound like living in the nations capital leads directly to learning to ride a horse as a means of escaping the coming collapse. doesn't seem like an A - B logical step...and yet I'm right there with you and wish I'd thought of it first. I figure a stolen car till I run out of gas, then a bike until I run out of tires or walking till I get to wherever it is that one goes...probably to my uncle's house, he's got a lot of guns and he's teaching my cousin to use the reloaders in the basement.

Also, I have no idea who to vote for... It's fairly moot since I'm probably voting in MA and the state'll go to the Democrats regardless of who I vote for.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T19:05:57-08:00

I posted this elsewhere on Whitechapel, but I think it applies here, too. I'm literally at a loss. I don't know what a satirist's role is in a world that is already satirical.

That's it, boys and girls. Pack it in. All you comics, comedians, humorists, what have you... it's done. Go back to school and learn a trade.

Because the real world has officially made us redundant.

Because THIS IS NOT A JOKE.

The concept of MIKE FUCKING HUCKABEE reciting the Chuck Norris meme is hilarious as satire. But fo'real? It scares the shit out of me.

I guess the only good to come of this is that it's officially made Chuck Norris jokes decidely not funny. Now if Mitt Romney can do an ad where pirates, zombies, and a navel-contemplating questionnaire endorse school prayer, my facebook account might stop being so useless.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T19:37:59-08:00

In all fairness, the Huckabee's deadpan got one last chuckle out of those jokes that 60 levels of flight paths through the Barrens had killed.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-29T22:44:40-08:00

Chuck Norris. Oh god, and by god I am not, in any way, referring to Mr. Norris...

Anyway, I hope the president is a little more important than simply being our mascot and handing his buddies government positions. I mean, isn't this person supposed to be our commander-in-chief? Doesn't he have that dude with the briefcase and the little red button inside following him around everywhere? Then again, maybe he is just a glorified mascot. It would explain his upbeat attitude in the midst of all the other crap...

The feelings I have towards politics are more general, I guess. I vote, as it's my right and, I believe at least, my responsibility. That said, a majority of the time I don't feel it matters one way or the other. Hopefully I'm wrong about that, but I can't change how disillusioned I feel with our country's political landscape. I don't feel these people truly represent myself, or anyone I know for that matter, or know what it's like for the rest of us. It's as if there's some elite ruling class from which our representatives are selected, and every four years they pretend to know what we're going through, how we truly feel, and what's best for us. Then, several are chosen for various positions and that's that until the dance begins again. They might as well all be Martians...

Maybe local government isn't that way (though in some circles it is), but watching the events of the main stage is much like watching another television program. Odd characters? Check. Intrigue? Check. Relationship issues? Check. Heck, even sexual hijinks and scandals are thrown into the mix. The bit leading up to the finale can run a bit stale, but the ending never disappoints, whether it's shrouded in controversy or not.

Honestly, I hope all my issues with the way the system works are just that, my issues. Hopefully, everything works as directed, or at least the best it can, and the people involved are sincere and really want to do all they can in service to those they wish to represent.

I just hope they realize some of us feel out of the loop, or that we can't even see the loop, and they'll work to show us something to give us all a little hope that the system isn't just smoke and mirrors. I'd like to think my vote makes a difference somewhere down the line...

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-30T10:24:34-08:00

a majority of the time I don't feel it matters one way or the other.

No, it matters, because regardless of whether or not they're a ruling elite, or if they truly represent you, or if they know what it's like for ordinary people, they'll be making appointments and representing us to the world. They have other responsibilities, and they do other things - but none of them will be what you want. There is no ideal president who will fix what ails you. Not Ron Paul, not Ralph Nader, not Dennis Kucinich, certainly not Giuliani or Obama or Clinton or Romney. Basing your decision on who to vote for (or whether to vote) on whether or not they'll represent how you truly feel, or if they know what it's like to not be part of some ruling elite, is a sucker's game. There isn't anyone who would make you happy there.

If the question is "why vote", the answer is appointments and how you're represented to the rest of the world. Don't cast a vote for President expecting sweeping change or someone who will accurately bring your views and causes into their policy decisions, because that's not what the President is supposed to do. The President has lots of jobs and lots of authority and lots of responsibility, but the only ways in which one is really all that different from another is in who they appoint and how they represent us to the world at large.

--d

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-30T15:25:24-08:00

Seems to me that logic takes all the emotion out of the political process. Well, that and I don't believe those are the only reasons to cast votes for a potential president. To each his own.

I'll stick with Pedro and continue looking for the bubbles below the surface. Somewhere down there someone has to be swimming. Either that or it's another idiot looking to pull the stopper...

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-30T19:14:33-08:00

I think Dan is spot on, actually. I live abroad and my friends here are from all over the world, and whenever America's fuck-ups come up in conversation, I can't help but feel some personal responsibility, even though I did vote for the other guy. "America" is the same as "Bush" to most people I meet. I'm supposed to be "a representative of my country" here in Japan, and when a colleague or friend starts to talk politics with me, I usually just get uncomfortable. Saying "I hate Bush" usually gets equated with "I hate America," and then I sound like a flakey ex-pat.

I admit I sort of ran away from it all by moving to Japan, at least temporarily. And maybe if I feel guilt about anything, it should be that. But I'll vote absentee, and I'll be voting for a better face to put to my home (and the tiny, shriveled, starved idealist chained in the dungeons of my head will feel a little hope that the newbie can actually make some positive change).

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-11-30T21:26:45-08:00

If the question is "why vote", the answer is appointments

This is an essential truth for me as well, and the main reason I vote democrat for president no matter what sort of creature rises up to take the nomination. The president elect will almost never be the person I would want, but I will take any warm body that will generally be in shooting distance of my values on cabinet, regulatory heads, ambassadors and judges.

Kerry, neck-bolts and all, would have given us two moderate to liberal justices. (Probably three, it is an open secret Stevens wants to step down and is holding tight for a democrat to replace him. 31 years now...)

Perhaps I have a depressingly pragmatic view, but those bench appointments last a long time. The Bush presidency will be in the ground many years and we will still be dealing with Alito.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-12-01T01:51:22-08:00

Am I sticking my neck out too far by saying that none of the candidates from either party strike me as particularly well-suited to the job? (Not that they ever are, I realize.) As a veteran, I'd be pro-McCain, but I think he's too long in the tooth. Rudy is too polarizing, and none of the rest seem up to the task. Obama hasn't been serving at the national level for very long, and strikes me as having a lot to learn about how politics works in DC. Hillary, I'd vote against just on general principal (cos she's a Clinton).

The best idea I've seen yet for a ticket was a cover piece in Time magazine touting a Bloomberg/Schwarzenegger ticket.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-12-01T02:42:20-08:00

I was into Paul for a while, but now I'm more considering Kucinich--he's not as bad-crazy, doesn't have any doners from Stormfront, and it would be cool to have a hot-ass First Lady for once.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-12-01T07:58:29-08:00

I am waiting to see who ends up actually running for President. No third party candidate has announced yet, and they won't until the primaries are over and the two major parties have selected their candidates. I would look for Jesse Ventura to throw his hat into the ring, Ron Paul will run as a Libertarian, and I am curious to see who actually wins the nominations. If Obama wins in Iowa by a large enough margin, he may build enough steam to role through NH and should win South Carolina. Unity '08 is the party I am currently keeping my eye on, they could prove to be the spoiler for both parties.

I desperately want a third party candidate to win, but it will never happen until a third party gets serious. Every third party attempts to capture an entire branch of government by running for the executive branch, but it will not happen until the lay the groundwork in Congress and begin to capture House and Senate seats.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-12-01T09:39:19-08:00

I live in Berkeley where there is a ground swell of support for Ron Paul all around us. I can't help but think that these Berkeley folk are simply latching onto Ron Paul's unambiguous anti-war language without really looking at what he'd like to do on Day 2. Some of the highlights include withdrawing from the UN, stricter border controls and no welfare for immigrants, abandoning nearly all government agencies including the National Endowment of the Arts, among others. Not really in line with the Berkeley crowd.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-12-01T10:25:57-08:00

I'll be voting Libertarian again, which is my default position. I voted for Kerry last time, as I hate Bush so goddamn much, but the election went all pear-shaped anyway, so I might as well try to help the Libertarians qualify for federal matching funds with my vote.

With that said, I hate politics like a poison.

Will

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-12-01T10:46:10-08:00

Kucinich is honestly the most sane of them all. Even if he had a shot in hell of winning it wouldn't matter much though. Too many self righteous fools and lobbyists with their hands so deep in the pockets of politicians they've forgotten what their fingers look like.

The whole system needs to be thrown out and/or totally overhauled. When something is diseased beyond repair it needs to be put down. Many of our systems and policies have outgrown their usefulness. They were designed for a time when volume was manageable. With a larger population, changing technology and changing demands we need new systems. Most people just want to take the old systems and amend them. That's short sighted and can only work so long. I'm afraid that "sticking with what works" just won't work in this context because, obviously, it's not working.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-12-02T09:15:06-08:00

On the Democratic side, the smart money is on Hillary floundering early on against Obama, whose numbers are on their way up. However, there's so little time between the end of the early primaries and Super Tuesday that there almost certainly won't be time for him to capitalize on his gains with the money and volunteers he needs to run in what - 15 states now? - at once. She can pull it out, but it'll be damaging. Read: same old, same old. Early money and organization wins, as McCain found out in 2000.
The Republican side is quite a bit more interesting. Giuliani is on his way down, and Romney has been rendered obsolete by Huckabee's ascendence (his whole point was that he wasn't Giuliani, and even if he wasn't an evangelical, he was willing to pretend that he was). The difference between this race and the Democratic one is that Giuliani doesn't have enough of a lead over the rest of the field to wait out early losses. We could easily see a mixed Super Tuesday, turning into a dogfight for delegates in the later states that no one thought would be important. If that gives us the first consequential convention since Kennedy, all the better.
So, the bigger issue: is any of this going to make a difference? In the short term, sure: the next president (so long as it isn't Giuliani) is going to have a very different perspective on executive power than the current one. However, in the long term, there's no question that whatever happens now, future presidents will inevitably come back to the precedent Bush has established: they've been doing it since Andrew Jackson, and they're not about to stop now. I'm with Stitchy, in that patches on the Constitution aren't enough: we need a new convention, and soon.

Dan

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-12-02T09:18:59-08:00

I desperately want a third party candidate to win, but it will never happen until a third party gets serious. Every third party attempts to capture an entire branch of government by running for the executive branch, but it will not happen until the lay the groundwork in Congress and begin to capture House and Senate seats.

We'd all like to see more political diversity, but the problem with third parties in the US is structural: no one's going to vote for a third party when they're all running for just one seat. Historically, the most successful third parties are those that have run for the big prize, as at least their ideas get adopted by the major parties.

Dan

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-12-02T12:07:35-08:00

We'd all like to see more political diversity, but the problem with third parties in the US is structural: no one's going to vote for a third party when they're all running for just one seat. Historically, the most successful third parties are those that have run for the big prize, as at least their ideas get adopted by the major parties.

Dan

I don't agree with that. In modern politics it would be quite easy for a third party to capture seats in the House, and possibly Senate seats in less populated states like Wyoming. If you look at the broad political spectrum of the House, you will notice that there are many who are Republicans and Democrats in name only. Liebermann lost the primary to another Democrat, but won as an independent. The trick that any third part runs into is the ability to run more than one campaign at a time. A third party needs to pick and choose their districts carefully. Issues that affect the west coast are not always the same issues that affect the east coast or the heartland. Third parties will always fail due to their inability to organize.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-12-02T12:30:37-08:00

I'm sure I'll vote for whatever loser the Dems nominate. Almost certainly Clinton/Obama, or Obama/Clinton. Unless one or the other takes their primaries mudslinging too far.
Unless the republican candidate offers a tax rebate again. I'm more than willing to have my vote bought.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-12-02T12:59:26-08:00

I don't agree with that. In modern politics it would be quite easy for a third party to capture seats in the House, and possibly Senate seats in less populated states like Wyoming. If you look at the broad political spectrum of the House, you will notice that there are many who are Republicans and Democrats in name only. Liebermann lost the primary to another Democrat, but won as an independent. The trick that any third part runs into is the ability to run more than one campaign at a time. A third party needs to pick and choose their districts carefully. Issues that affect the west coast are not always the same issues that affect the east coast or the heartland. Third parties will always fail due to their inability to organize.

You're right that we've seen some third party wins for the House and the Senate. I would argue, however, that those gains don't come from a third party successfully competing against one of the major parties, but rather displacing them as the second major party. Lieberman won as the de facto Republican candidate, just as Bernie Sanders wins as the de facto Democrat. In all cases, there's still just two major parties, as there will be whenever there's single-member districts. The question is if any single third party can gather support from enough districts to compete on a national basis, and I don't see how - or who. Their best hope, I think, is to get fusion ticket laws in more states, so that a minor party can nominate the same person as one of the major parties, and threaten to withhold their votes to get influence.

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-12-02T13:03:40-08:00

I'm sure I'll vote for whatever loser the Dems nominate. Almost certainly Clinton/Obama, or Obama/Clinton. Unless one or the other takes their primaries mudslinging too far.
Unless the republican candidate offers a tax rebate again. I'm more than willing to have my vote bought.

Clinton/Obama is a possibility, but Clinton would be a fool to accept a slot as VP. By the time the presidency opens up, she'll be too far gone to take the nomination, and she'll have less influence there than as a big state Senator.
And no one's going to give a tax rebate next year - at least for any of us plebs. Best we can hope for is the removal of the AMT, or an extension of the Bush tax cuts. Either way, we'll wind up paying for it all eventually - unless you're old enough to not worry about it. In that case, take the money and run, my friend.

Dan

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-12-02T21:08:42-08:00

Best we can hope for is the removal of the AMT, or an extension of the Bush tax cuts.

Ugh. Continuing tax cuts is great in principle, but I'm sure that, at some point, China is going to hold the gun of loan repayment to our heads and we'll pay the money we owe them. Its why I've never understood Washington Republicans--many of them, even far too many of the fiscal conservatives, bitch endlessly about "needless" programs like the NEA (which he spend far too little money on) and social welfare programs, but sign off on a trillion dollar war and propose building a fence on the U.S. border (!!).

- Zachary -

Apathy '08: How the US will Screw itself!

2007-12-03T18:17:42-08:00

Bloomberg/Hagel. It's not too late, Mike. C'mon, please.