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Art And Moving Pictures: [Closed] Hey, Creative Potential: YOU OWE ME!
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CommentAuthorPaul Sizer
- CommentTimeJan 25th 2009
This has come up a few times in conversation with others in the past weeks;
Meeting people who feel that their creative potential owes them a certain level of return.
It has varied from the "Why aren't I famous?" level to the "Why doesn't anyone buy my stuff that I worked on so hard?" query. It had ranged from artists wondering when they will eventually "hit" to when will they start getting a financial return on all the investment of time, resources and/or practice they've applied to a project.
With as many years as I've been attending cons, I've seen and been on both sides of the table to hear all the arguments/justifications/excuses, but as many times as I've seen an egotistical asshole cry out against the injustice of a public that doesn't acknowledge their "genius", I've also seen nice, talented people who just don't get any action from the work they put out there, again and again and again. They improve, they work hard, they brush up their communication and people skills, and NOTHING.
I do not exclude myself from the camp of the "constantly working towards getting better" crowd, but I have been lucky to get any of the positive response (critical and financial) for the design and comic work I do. I go in really expecting nothing, so when I get something, it's a winning scenario for me.
But truthfully, any artist needs to have SOME level of ego driving them to throw what's in their head onto the canvas/recording tape/internet for the world to see, but how much is too much, and how much is too little? Does the "doing" justify the expectation of return?
You WhiteChapel folks are a bright lot; what are your thoughts on this? Any run-ins with this argument? Just curious... -
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Ultimately, when producing art for consumption in a capitalist system, there is no room for questions of deserved return on creative output. Either we have created something which has monetary value to a buyer, or we have not.
The issue becomes more interesting when considering why our labors do not translate into profit. Certainly when we examine the decline in support for the arts, a problem which translates both into fewer artists and fewer people who have the necessary tools and inclination to appreciate art, fairness and justice are concepts which may easily be applied (I am speaking here only of arts funding in the United States, as I have little experience with the system in other nations).
However, in reference to the individual ego, the justice of the entire system may be only peripherally applicable. I may bemoan the decline of the NEA, the indiscriminate consumer, but what really pisses me off is squeezing in drawing time around my lame retail job. Surely I am too wonderful for such a banal existence? This idea, while based more in ego than fact, provides the energy necessary to continue creating in the face of external discouragement. -
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CommentAuthorRootfireember
- CommentTimeJan 25th 2009
I want a million dollars and a pony.
Does this mean I deserve it, or that deserving something entitles one to getting it?
Fuck No.
Hell, I'd probably hate the pony, and just be overrun with drama if I got the millions; leaving myself as unhappy, if not more so than when I'd started.
Does hard work mean one's entitled to stuff?
I don't think so.
The world isn't a just or even place. Shit happens. I can understand wanting to cry out that ITS NOT FAIR. But that won't change how things ARE.
Does this mean I should NOT create just because I can't get a pony/milliondollars/insert-material-goods-here?
Of course not.
I'm an artist. I create. If I eventually can pay my way on it? Cool. If not, I find other ways to survive and adapt. Because I am a human being, and we're crazy adaptable monkeys! -
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I think, for the most part, creatives of any medium feel very strongly about their work. That ranges from the people who crank out prodigious amounts of work, and the guy down the street who traced a picture of Wolverine and thinks he's the next Jim Lee.
There's no argument that a lot of hard work and effort goes into it, but I think, for the most part, the involvement of the ego should be kept to a reasonable level, or at least in line with your expectations of self. I take a decent amount of pride in my writing, but I know that I'm at the nascent stages of my creative development. I can't expect myself to be on the level with people who've been doing it for years yet right now - they've been using their tools for years, and I'm just learning what everything can do and where my strengths are.
But do I have faith that, one day, I can use my strengths to their fullest, and surpass the vast majority of writers and would-be's out there. To me, there's a different kind of ego involved in saying, "I'm good now, but in five years, I'll blow your mind", rather than, "You don't get it?! You uncultured nabob! My work is genius! The whole world should be shouting my name!".
I feel the first kind would be the best. But, if you think something's positively brilliant, talk it up in a non-demeaning way. I like your approach - just do your best, go in, and whatever happens, happens.
That said, I think your pictures are real purdy, and your post reminded me that I haven't picked up BPM yet. I think this blatant oversight should be rectified immediately, since I just got my student loan check. :D -
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CommentAuthorRootfireember
- CommentTimeJan 25th 2009
I think part of the issue might be the ideals and culture we're raised with. Told from a young age that if you work hard enough, anything is possible, of course its frustrating to find out in the real world that even if you have great talent, work your ass off, it doesn't always mean you'll make something that will sell, or be recognized. In america there's a very, very individualistic culture, and along with some of that goes the 'protestant work ethic'; Its an American myth, way, ideal (Sorry, I can't vouch for other countries or cultures out there) and .... the reality that the situation isn't so in the real world can hurt to understand, and be very frustrating.
Blanche is right, though- in the arts people do feel strongly about their work. I think it goes with the way creation is seen as personal, and in some cases, as an extension of the self. This further compounds the injustice one may feel to find one's 'prized work' isn't favored by the public.
After creating something to find it doesn't end up going anywhere, there may be a sense of hurt, frustration and the creator may want to place blame to help understand WHY something happened, or perhaps didn't.
Sometimes there isn't a why. Sometimes there is. -
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CommentAuthorPaul Sizer
- CommentTimeJan 25th 2009
@Blanche
Aw, thanks. Using important student loan money on my stuff, rather than stuff it's intended for, like Doritos and booze!
I think this question does come down to the issue of entitlement, which does rear it's head more and more as the "T-Ball/Everbody's a Winner" generation comes into the market and enters the workforce. More and more I've encountered the "process martyr"; "Well, I did everything they said, how come I didn't get the same results?" and from there curse the process.
For any success that I've had, I've had twice as many times where I've gotten my ass handed to me in a failed attempt. My ego serves to keep me focused on my intent and direction, but not to the point of flinging myself against the bug light for eternity. Part of the process is being ready to see what does work (and continuing with that) and what doesn't work (and stop doing that).
I liked that "adaptable monkeys" comment, because I think that is what I am successful at: adapting what I do for what I CAN achieve, rather than what I think I might achieve. Not to say I don't dream above where I am right now, but I do keep in mind that I don't live in those dreams. -
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Some ramblings:
What does it take for an artist to be recognized?
Talent, well... possibly, but I think the whole point is that there are phenomenally talented artists that struggle to be noticed and untalented wretches that roll in wealth and fame.
A modicum of luck, being in the right place at the right time is certainly a factor. But there is more than that, luck is insufficient, and moreover is a hopeless thing. If it is only luck that determines success, how depressing would that be.
Dedication and hard work certainly help, but again, that does not explain all, there are artists who do jack shit and become famous, and others who work all their lives and don't.
Another factor might be creating what is wanted and needed at the time, if you as an artist, create art that no-one is interested in, success will be limited, though it is arguable that in our times everything has a niche.
But I think beyond all these factors lies a certain drive, a desire to achieve, but also the willingness and ability to let that drive be seen and noticed. It is clear there are a number of psychological factors that govern and sabotage success, and many artists, by the very requirements of the profession itself (putting stereotypes aside) live in interesting psychodynamic circumstances, to say the least.
Success is a psychological game as much as anything else. There are people who are highly skilled at selling and promoting themselves, and there are those that aren't. Given the slightly uneven playing field in the psychological requirements of the artist's occupation, I would imagine that you will find a large discrepancy in the ability to sell and promote oneself when correlated with success. When you are a hedge fund manager, success is largely based on your being able to sell yourself, when you are an entrepreneur, success is based upon you selling yourself, same goes for many professions. The problem is that with most of those professions, that skill is taken as a necessity and a part of the profession, with artists I think it is often perceived as a negative trait. Self marketing, self promotion, etc.. it is done because it has to be, but is done unwillingly by many. That in of itself would create all sorts of sabotage. How many of you artists out there enjoy promoting yourself? Given that, look at the most 'successful' artists and their defining characteristics... more often than not, it seems it is a talent or skill at self promotion.
I would wager that if you looked at the artists that are successful vs those that aren't, the willingness, time and skill put into self promotion and selling themselves would be one big distinction. That is not to say luck, skill etc are not factors, but my experience is that those who are loud and relentless are those that are noticed, those who wait to be discovered are basing everything on luck. -
Sometimes there isn't a why. Sometimes there is.
True. Sometimes the person in question just isn't very good, though. -
I'm pretty young and inexperienced as a writer, but I would have to agree with aike that self promotion (or the support of influential people) is a big factor in success. It just so happens that some of the most brilliant work in any medium is made by humble unpretentious people who dont feel the need or desire to whore themselves for a glimmer of success. At the same time, if your not willing to go that route, you shouldnt bitch or wonder why it's not working out.
It's not an easy question to awnser. I'm also dismayed by the sheer number of truly talentless people making money in thier "art".
case in point:
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CommentAuthorPaul Sizer
- CommentTimeJan 25th 2009
I would agree that being willing to take the time to discover a way to promote yourself that doesn't turn you into a giant asshole is one important factor (and one I try hard to adopt). It doesn't take much skill to be the braying ass in the marketplace, but it takes time to learn a modicum of finesse to selling one's ideas and talent to others. That also doesn't mean that finesse can't be loud and raucous, but it must sound different than the normal "I'm special, dammit" din that we're used to hearing.
My current favorite advice phrase (passed to me and my wife Jane from our friend, the massively talented Carla Speed McNeil), is "Man up, Nancy!", which was used in reference to an unnamed artist whining about not being able to work because they were afraid to approach the drawing board, as it had become daunting to them. Carla's response; get the hell out of the way for those of us who DO want to try our hand at it! Even uncertain of whether we would succeed, being willing to jump at it, fall, learn from it and jump again (smarter this time) seems to be a trait in artists I admire and respect.
I'm currently trying to figure out a more gender-neutral version of "Man up, Nancy!"; maybe "Human up, Nancy!", but it doesn't have the same ring and tone. Hmmm. -
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"Shit or get off the pot" is a nice, if crude, gender-neuteral phrase.
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@Either/or
or, ahem, this :
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I see a lot of artists who make a conscious effort to differentiate themselves from the pack by delving further and further into their own unique style. But the trap with this is that, after investing so much effort and exhaustive brainpower and so forth into perfecting their niche standpoint, they've strayed so far from what the market wants that they end up beneath the radar still anyway.
If you want to get any reasonable amount of money or recognition out of what you do, you have to give the market what it wants. It takes either phenomenal, super-human skill or insane amounts of luck to be able to tell the market what it wants. And its completely unreasonable to expect it to work any other way.
The Australian Film industry has been plagued by this for a couple decades now. Lots of incredibly high-quality films get made here every year, but they inevitably flop at the cinemas because nobody wants to see them. They're highly artistic, but they're boring to anybody who isn't already previously invested in the subject matter. This is because the film-makers who have been getting the govt. arts council grants are the ones who put forth their proposal most intensely (self promotion) but then focused so intently on their art that they cut off their market viability, as a result of ego. And thats just one example. -
@Blanche-
I'd rather be cannibalized alive through my womb by microscopic perverts than read that stain on humanity.
*needs to take a shower* -
@Paul Sizer:
I tend to say "Put the bow in the front."
As in, "please put on your big-kid drawers and fucking DEAL." -
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CommentAuthorrickiep00h
- CommentTimeJan 25th 2009
The thing about art is this: it's not up to you. It's not up to you if someone else likes your work. You work hard, you work consistently, you work constantly, and if someone else likes your own, personal, individual work, then you make money. If they don't, and you still want to do art for a living, you work in a graphic design house and you do art for other people to spec the rest of your life. No one really knows exactly why Pollack's paintings sell, but they do. No one knows why people keep buying schlock like Twilight or any number of other things. So why should your work be any different?
Even relentlessly whoring yourself to any and everyone won't pan out if you're too inflexible or too stupid to take advantage of a good opportunity, and you'll especially not get anywhere by being an asshole. And that's what most of the asshole people don't understand. If you're an asshole to people, they generally won't like you, because you're an asshole. If someone comes along and tells you "This work is great! I'll gladly pay you XXXX dollars for you to work for me!" but you say "Fuck you, man! I don't sell out for nobody!" then you can't bitch because you didn't take them up on the offer. "But they were trying to crush my integrity, man!" Fuck you, if you cared about integrity, you wouldn't be bitching that you're not getting any money. It's a rare artist that can make a living, while staying true to themselves 100% of the time, and be able to be a little lazy.
I've been in some bands. I've written some stuff. I do the occasional drawing. But I also realize that I haven't been working toward making a career out of any it because (I'm too scared/I'm too lazy/I'm not very good/etc.) I'm not blaming anyone else for my creative careers not taking off. I take everything with a grain of salt. Like Roo said upthread, I'm mostly annoyed that the rest of my life gets in the way. Is it making excuses? Maybe a little bit. But I'm not blaming anyone else for my own lack of work.
For the people that think they're working so hard they deserve something and therefore get angry because they're not getting squat: either you're not working hard enough or you're being an asshole. Pick one of the two to work on.
/steps off soapbox -
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*applauds*
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There are several overlapping issues here. The most important is that of entitlement. We're living in a world where many people plugged into western media think that fame is theirs to be had, and shows like Pop Idol and Big Brother all contribute to that outlook. Add to that the fact that many people have never sought or received quality feedback for what they're doing, which only inflates their sense of being brilliant, and you've got the makings of a real problem.
You can find a healthier attitude somewhere like Iceland. There, people typically have more than two jobs, and one of them will be creative. No big deal: creativity isn't anything precious, just something you do. And it's not as reliable at bringing money in as other ways of making a living, which is why you have those other gigs. Plus, for many people, it's healthier that way anyway. Spending your whole time obsessing about the art you're not creating is not healthy. Get some kind of part time work, and that's where you find the impetus to do something creative with the remainder of your time.
www.youdothatvoodoo.com -- this kinda direct about a whole bunch of stuff to do with writing, films, comics... -
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CommentAuthorPaul Sizer
- CommentTimeJan 25th 2009
See? I knew there'd be killer feedback on this topic!
My initial thought was multi-faceted, and I'm glad people are picking it apart and responding to various attributes. All good points, and good range of approaches to the query.
More. More. More. -
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CommentAuthorPatrickBrown
- CommentTimeJan 25th 2009
"Entitlement" seems to be the psychobabble buzzword du jour, and I prefer to avoid it. You've got to believe in what you're doing, and not let your belief in it be dictated by the marketplace - even if the marketplace is right. Do the work, finish it, see what you've got, learn from it, and do something better next time. I think Dave Sim said that, paraphrasing, you'll get to a point when you know you're on to something. But until that point, you've got to believe you're on to something. -