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    • CommentAuthorAnanzitusq
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2008
    wangerman: I hear that! I really don't like to go to metal shows of any kind mainly because the audience makes me feel very uncomfortable. I saw Amon Amarth a few months ago and wore a Coheed and Cambria hoodie, and got some "shifty eye" looks. It's sad really.
    • CommentAuthorchris g
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2008
    is there anyone like Bikini Kill available to check out? pissed off, radical feminism. I don't see any of it around these days.
    What I love about them and Black Flag is that their "F you" rings true from the heart. Some just do it just to come off as angry. But to me those two bands just had a reason.
      CommentAuthorfilthy ring
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2008 edited
    I know there are a lot of opinions of what punk is and isn't. Personally, I always thought the most "punk rock" thing you could do is be honest and don't compromise who you are... it doesn't matter how many Ramones shirts you have, how many times you've listened to Damaged by Black Flag, or how many times you trashed Blink 182 to piss off the teeny bopper girls. Punk has ideally been about being true to yourself whether it's for an idea or as a "counter culture" movement.
  1.  (540.84)
    "wangerman: I hear that! I really don't like to go to metal shows of any kind mainly because the audience makes me feel very uncomfortable. I saw Amon Amarth a few months ago and wore a Coheed and Cambria hoodie, and got some "shifty eye" looks. It's sad really."

    I saw Opeth a couple of months ago and actually found the crowd to be pretty cool. no fights. no trouble. everyone was there to hear music. good range of age from the audience too.
    • CommentAuthorAnanzitusq
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2008
    Oh, well that's pretty awesome then. I shouldn't have made the over generalization, but in my experiences that's how it has turned out. I've always been of the opinion that it's better to listen to music, even if it's really bad than to not listen to any music at all.
    • CommentAuthormlpeters
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2008
    I've seen Iggy mentioned, but... MC5 anyone? I'm not a fan of theirs or anything, but their certainly at least proto-punk.

    Although it's not actually hard-rocking enough for some to consider "punk", Patti Smith was called a "punk poetess" and "god-mother of punk" and was married to Fred "Sonic" Smith (last name a coincidence -- obviously there are a lot of Smiths), a former member of MC5.

    "Punk" has a lot of different meanings and derives from a half-dozen or more earlier genres - -trying to narrow the definition is kinda pointless, IMO.
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2008
    he dislikes a large majority of self-described "punks" mostly because of how elitist they can be

    when he was growing up punk was about community and now that punk has gained a larger following that community is no longer possible

    I wasn't actually going to post, but these two posts directly relate to the point I wanted to make. Maybe some of us were born too late and things used to be great, maybe the past is just being romanticized, I don't know. I do know that I'm 26 and I love punk because of what it means to me personally, but punk rock was never about community or solidarity no matter what towns I lived in at the time. The albums were great, but for the kids who listened to them, it wasn't about being together or standing up for each other, it was about who liked what bands and who was or wasn't punk. The kids who talked the most about solidarity and unity were just the kids with the most friends. Even in the sXe scene, where a unifying ideal should have brought people together I found more hierarchies of cool. As I got older and my tastes expanded beyond just two or three styles of music, it became obvious that I would never be a part of a particular scene or movement. So now I don't care what it's called, if it sounds good and has a message I can get behind, then I'll take it, and everything else will be ignored.

    So to answer your original question joe: As much as I love and owe punk rock, "punk" is just an adjective to me now, like "jazz" or "folk" or "metal" or "industrial." They are words we can use to describe pieces of culture because everyone has at least a nebulous sense of the style being referred to. Punk is just another great color in the palette, both in the public sense and in my head. I'm excited to see what comes next, but I'm sure I won't be part of the in-crowd. I think I've gone ronin.
    • CommentAuthorchris g
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2008
    So to answer your original question joe: As much as I love and owe punk rock, "punk" is just an adjective to me now, like "jazz" or "folk" or "metal" or "industrial." They are words we can use to describe pieces of culture because everyone has at least a nebulous sense of the style being referred to.

    i was just thinking right now. How rather than "punk" just being used to describe a flavor of music/movement. it is a trait of ones lifestyle/attitude which the person stays true to. Something similar to what Ellis once said; it's about declaring that you are effing alive and no one will crush your soul. (on the off chance you believe in souls, whole other can of worms tho N/M)
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2008

    That is the punkest thing you can do...
    • CommentAuthorAnanzitusq
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2008
    @infomancer, that was brilliant and I might have to steal that word-usage, it's too perfect.
  2.  (540.91)
    i have to go out (well i dont have to, but i am going to yknow, a punk rock show) so all i will say for now is that i hope everyone reads the whole thread before posting. im not complaining at anyone currently posting, but i would hate for someone to just hop into the middle of this without seeing the beginning which was from almost a year ago when i was in a mood about people attaching the word punk to things that didnt make much sense. talk to you folks later
  3.  (540.92)
    This post is filled with many many contradictions but it was written in one mad dash.

    I love punk. I absolutely adore it. But I don't often get on with punks. Everyone's too serious, and I'm not saying you shouldn't take it seriously sometimes, because it means a lot to me and I get very defensive when people trash it, but just because something is important to you doesn't mean you shouldn't have fun with it. I hate being the only one dancing at shows. I hate people putting the past on a pedestal and saying that everything that comes after it is shit. Peace-punks decry slogans and posturing, but slogans and posturing are fun. Sure, a band like Leftover Crack is fucking stupid but they are lots of fun. Street-punks decry anarcho-punks for being too preachy, but having ideals is important. It's all about a happy medium. Punk is dead, long live punk, that's what I say. Either that or punk's not dead, but The Exploited have always been fucking shite.

    Punk is a broad church. You can be silly and sing about girls and drinking or about the government and anarchy. You can ape the Ramones, or introduce a string section and multiple percussionists. You can play so loud your amps break, or you can do it with an acoustic guitar. It's getting piss-arse drunk and fucked-up on drugs and being straight-edge. It's hating yourself and everything and loving life. Punk, to me, is everything.

    I love punk and I still think Operation Ivy said it best when they sang Jaded, or maybe The Bouncing Souls sang it best when they sang True Believers, or maybe Dear Landlord with Three to the Beach, or Ghost Mice with Up the Punx, or Propagandhi with Back to the Motor League or Dead Kennedys with Nazi Punks Fuck Off, or Against Me! with Reinventing Axl Rose, or Cock Sparrer with Where Are They Now?, or a million shitty punk bands with a million shitty punk songs. My opinion of it changes with each song.

    Punk is probably the main creative influence on my life, I owe it a lot. It's music, it's style, it's ethics, it's literature, even though none of these things are remotely constant and are all in a giant state of flux. But I love punk even though I'm often frustrated with the reality of it compared to how I see it in my head, but the reality is better because it exists and if it doesn't conform to how I want it to be I have to work to change it because punk is at once transient and eternal. I love punk. And punk rock girls are really hot too.

    That probably made no sense whatsoever.

    EDIT: I forgot my favourite punk slogan: Punk is my life and my life is what I make of it.
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2008
    @chris g:

    I think you're exactly right, it does go far beyond music. That's why I wanted to say "pieces of culture" instead of just "songs." Henry Rollins spoke about punk once by saying that it's gotten so deep into the culture that when a kid decides to tell a teacher to shove it, someone can recognize that and say, "That was so punk rock." So you're definitely right, punk does indeed inform our attitudes and lifestyles down to everyday decisions. Individual lives shaped the music, and the music helped shape our lives, and now those shaped lives have to decide what to shape, I guess.

    • CommentAuthorpoor_boy
    • CommentTimeDec 14th 2008
    Six thousand, eight hundred and eighty seven windows were broken in the time it took me to read this.

    What punk means to me personally...slit the world's throat, burn it, and then fuck the ashes.

    Just felt like sharing. I love you guys.
    • CommentAuthorkperkins
    • CommentTimeDec 14th 2008
    I'd forgotten about this thread, thanks for bringing it back up folks.
    • CommentAuthorbandini
    • CommentTimeDec 14th 2008
    Interesting thread, but I always thinks it's a little odd when people get so concerned about defining or reclaiming what the word punk means. It is just a word, and no matter what it means to you, popular consensus dictates what it really means. Language evolves. If in the modern era people use the word punk to describe modern mall-punk crap like New Found Glory or whatever, well then that is what it means. Or at the very least, it is a part of what it means. You can scream from a hilltop about what "real" punk is all you want. It doesn't really matter.

    It is the equivalent of trying to argue that the word "gay" really only means "happy" and should not have the modern association with homosexuality.
    • CommentTimeDec 14th 2008
    Telling people that Good Charlotte aren't punk is like telling people My Chemical Romance aren't emo.

    I gave up trying to do that kind of thing a long time ago and instead now don't give a shit what they want to call whatever guitar band is currently in the charts.

    Punk to me is more of an attitude. It's DIY. It's a middle finger to the system and creating a sub-culture as far from the mainstream as possible. I suppose?