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  1.  (616.1)
    A goth who leads his girlfriend around with a dog lead and collar was stopped from getting on a bus amid fears for passenger safety, a bus firm confirmed.

    ...and if the internet has taught me one thing, it's that there are a lot weirder clothes out there. Will buses start banning tazer jackets?
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      CommentAuthorVespers
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.2)
    amid fears for passenger safety

    Bullshit. The busdriver didn't like the look of them and/or was disgusted by their lifestyle and banned them for that reason alone.

    HOWEVER. As (someone, I can't remember who wrote that entry) said over at COILHOUSE. they said some really stupid things to the press. The goth look gets enough odd looks and bad feelings from old ladies, public servants, and fuckin chavs as it is, without actually *saying to the press* that she feels "like a pet" and likes it.
  2.  (616.3)
    they said some really stupid things to the press.


    Well yes, isn't that part of being 'Goth'? To make out you are different and then to bemoan the fact that everyone says you are different.

    At least it was when I was a goth teenager.

    *Disclaimer - it has been many years since I was goth, before the invention of Industrial for a start*
    • CommentAuthorjona
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.4)
    @Reynolds: but you still have that alien sex fiend t-shirt in the back of the wardrobe, right?
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      CommentAuthorVespers
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.5)
    @Reynolds

    I suppose it is. Which is (part of) why 'the scene' annoys the shit out of me and I wish a better class of people listened to the music I like and dressed the way I do... I personally do not do any of such bemoaning, except when I'm getting fucking jumped for it by a bunch of twats who cruise around on pushbikes. And that's more a bemoaning of how shit they are at jumping people and how twatish they are that if I hurt them I'd inevitably get the shit for it rather than them...

    But anyway, okay, be different, BOAST about it if you must, get angry at arsehole bus drivers sure, I've had that problem before myself... but saying you're a pet to the press is not a good idea. This will not help your case.

    There is such a thing as tact. This is something I attempt to use, myself. Often I use it by insulting people in a tactful way, which is perhaps undermining the principle a bit, but even so. If one wants to appear to be the good guy in a given situation when the public opinion is already against one, it's damn useful.
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      CommentAuthorOwsler
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.6)
    What is the ratio of real goths (if they exist) to commercial drones out of interest?

    From my experience it's less a reaction of disgust etc, and more a groan at the falseness of it all.
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      CommentAuthorVespers
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.7)
    @Owsler
    What is the ratio of real goths (if they exist) to commercial drones out of interest?

    Uhm... couple hundred to one? At least it feels that way.

    From my experience it's less a reaction of disgust etc, and more a groan at the falseness of it all.

    Whose reaction do you mean is less disgust and more 'Oh god more pretenders'? In general, people who are not your basic Mundane will often look at your average Hot Topic teeny gothtard and indeed groan at the falseness of it all. But from *my* experience as one who would call myself Goth if it wasn't for how lame the scene is ever since, oh... about when I was born... the vast majority of the general public not only lump those little whiny shit-eating gothtards in with me, they do in fact feel disgusted etc by my presence and whatever the hell they perceive my lifestyle to be.
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      CommentAuthorMalsain
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.8)
    This is all going to end up as a 'What is Goth?' argument I feel somehow. Which never ends well, and usually in fact never ends, because no-one agrees on anything ever. Except maybe that there's eyeliner.

    From my experience it's less a reaction of disgust etc, and more a groan at the falseness of it all.


    An interesting thing done well is beautiful. A quick slick of black lipstick and some poorly done white facechalk helps no-one.

    I've found as more people settle into a scene, they kinda become more mature about it. Clothes and makeup get better, attitudes reflect experience of trying to be yourself in the real world, rather than being determined that you can prance about on buses with a dog lead on and no-one will mind. Hell, they were probably talking about something really stupid, loudly.
    I think the difference in my opinion between the 'real' goths and the drones that Owsler mentions, is that most 'real' goths just get on with it, and drones make a show of it.

    Obviously I dont know the couple in question, but they look pretty Identikit cutout. A lot of my friends are goth, I used to go to Whitby Gothic Weekend, and I used to work in an alternative fashion store, so I'm reasonably familiar with the people and types of people in the scenes. Things are a lot better now than when I was first starting out, but, well, I always found the best way of getting along was to not try to draw anymore attention to myself really.
    • CommentAuthorInexperto
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.9)
    Perhaps a more pertinent question might be 'What is a pet?' Because the only pets allowed on London buses are guide dogs, and if that's how Mr Graves described his girlfriend to the driver...

    (sorry, I'm feeling pretty flippant today)
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      CommentAuthorMalsain
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.10)
    Up norf we allow all dogs ;)
    • CommentAuthorPooka
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.11)
    i was a college goth. One of the main reasons for me to dress the way I did, was because I had no friends. I had no friends, but i knew the type of people who I'd get along with, and generally they were the freaks and weirdos on campus. I figured if you advertise your freakiness, that it would attract others of your kind...very much like gay pride stickers. :P

    We're here, we're weird...now come drinky drink with us.

    plus I was an art student, and have always been attracted to the creepy stuff..and I always just dressed in what I thought looked good. I overdid it a bit, but all kids do when they're first starting out.
    What toned me down was buying a business and having my step daughters come live with me. They loved the way I dressed by the way but when your focusing your life on kids and a business it's really hard, and annoying to try to maintain any kind of polished look.

    I've graduated to jeans, cords, combat pants and boots, and comic book t-shirts...I still have my nose pierced and I wear lots of pentacles (religious thing)...so I'm still labeled as "the skinny goth chick with the comic book store". Funny thing though...my ex girlfriend was labeled as goth because of genetics. She's got dark hair and pale skin...we went to a party once where she wore a hippy skirt and shirt in light blue with floral embroidery, and she got called goth...It's become hard NOT to be called goth in kentucky...

    The article above reminded me of one halloween's eve. I was dressed at Little Red Riding Hood, and my husband was just kinda suggestive of wolfyism, but mostly just kinda gothed out. We had to make a run to Big Lots, so we decided to just go in full costume. I had affixed a collar and chain to my husband and as we were walking across the parkinglot, this very little old lady came towards us, leaving the store. We tensed for sour reactions, but then she turned, stared at us a moment then said "Yeah...yeah, that's how you do it hunny!!"
    We both nearly fell over laughing as I gave him a sharp tug and sauntered into Big Lots. Remember, I live in Kentucky...generally other than FREAK, WEIRDO and HALLOWEEN'S NEXT MONTH, we get DO YOU KNOW JESUS LOVES YOU!?
    • CommentAuthorDracko
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.12)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    I can't say I much care for people who get off on trying to make others uncomfortable.

    If you and your partner like chains and all that, all's well. But why expect anything other than this sort of reaction when in public?

    My point is, and this may surprise you, but I keep my knifeplay in the bed room and don't flaunt it in public.

    Either way, this seems to me that this is exactly the sort of reaction this sort of couple might want, then realise it ain't all that being shunned. Yes, I'm likely over-simplifying but come off it, yeah?
    • CommentAuthorPooka
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.13)
    One side of it, is yes, you'll get the reaction...some people like that...but you forget to realize that some people, just really enjoy looking and acting in a certain way, and it doesn't matter what society thinks of them. They don't care...they just want to have fun, and it's not hurting anyone...generally. It's just not what the public is used to...but there's all sorts of weird behavior in public that's accepted, just because it's common...
    Social acceptance isn't a concern for some people. They dont' care what's expected of them by society...

    but then there's the kids who do it to be weird and get a reaction. They love the drama..the "mystique" of being young and outcast.
    • CommentAuthorDracko
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.14)
    I'm having a time out until I can learn some manners.
    Well, if they don't care, sure. More power to them. That doesn't mean there's not going to be a reaction, however.

    <a href="http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article720058.ece">And from the looks of it, these two really, really do love the attention quite a lot.</a>
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      CommentAuthorTrotsky
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.15)
    this is grand
    "Their day starts with Dani choosing Tasha’s outfit. She goes to the bathroom where a message in eyeliner from Dani reminds her to brush her teeth. Then a close encounter with a spider in the bath has her running to the sofa and curling up in a ball until Dani removes it."

    just... grand.

    ah, thank you social anthropology!
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      CommentAuthorZ
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.16)
    @Dracko

    <blockquote>If you and your partner like chains and all that, all's well. But why expect anything other than this sort of reaction when in public? </blockquote>

    I have to say I agree with you. This morning I got up, put on my work clothes, a leather blazer, and picked up a NY Times with my venti coffee.

    When I go to a con (on those rare occasions), I wear a long black coat, Spider J shades and a pair of black boots.

    Do I get shit wearing my leather blazer? No, and I doubt I would unless I showed up to a PETA rally (which would be my own fault). Do I get shit wearing my Spider J shades and my strange long coat? Sure do. I get The Looks, the Head Shake, and occasionally, the Insults. As any one who's been to a con hosted in a hotel, in a small town, or hell- anywhere- would know, those are the risks.

    As for your comment about "if you and your partner like chains," let me expand upon that with two general points:

    1.) In general, I don't want to see people making out and groping each other, much less what fetishes they're into. If I'm on a public bus, I'm probably on my way home from work, tired as hell, in a bad mood, and in no mental state to tune that out. They need to take that attention seeking somewhere appropriate, like open mic night or a fetish party. This is one of the many reasons people don't utilise public transit.

    2.) The chain is a safety hazard. Perhaps only in the minds of the paranoid, the overly-cautious, or the metal-allergic, but a hazard to some nonetheless. If I see some skinny white dude that looked like he got kicked out of AFI for giggling too much toting a long length of chain on public transit, no matter what that chain is attached to I'm not taking my eyes off the bastard. He may be getting exactly what he wants from all the staring, but I'm not turning my back on <em>someone that fucking stupid</em>.

    Cheers,
    - Z
    • CommentAuthorInexperto
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.17)
    Exactly. For fuck's sake, if you insist on taking your fiancee for walkies of course you're going to get odd looks.
  3.  (616.18)
    to be fair, they were fucking ugly too, and nobody wants that on their bus ;)
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      CommentAuthorZ
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.19)
    @Offt

    If that girl had been on a train with me, I'd probably have left my plastic-wrapped sandwich behind, in hopes she'd eat something. Sad.

    - Z
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      CommentAuthorVespers
    • CommentTimeJan 24th 2008
     (616.20)
    @Malsain
    I think the difference in my opinion between the 'real' goths and the drones that Owsler mentions, is that most 'real' goths just get on with it, and drones make a show of it.

    Point. Although goth is a very showy subculture in the first place, just... not that way. *stops blathering on then*

    Heh. I just tried to find something else serious to respond to, and it didn't really work. Therefore;

    @Z
    I did not expect to ever see the situation come up in Whitechapel in which someone would say "that girl needs to have a sandwich" or something along those lines; ie, what you just said. Personally, I.. no, that is not a sandwich-needing girl, but your comment still made me giggle from the unexpectedness of it.
    However, I do agree with offtandiscord. She could do with a paper bag over the head, perhaps. Both of them could, with their disturbing similarity of features.

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