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    • CommentAuthorEbony14
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    Gah, Mark, not Kirk. Got my Freaks flipflopped.
  1.  (6172.62)
    I hope this fight isn't over.
  2.  (6172.63)
    What I would love to see more than anything is Miki being the one to go all out on Luke. Sure, she's the doctor, and the one who wanted to spare all those people, but does that mean she tolerates rape? While you are probably right that she won't want them to kill Luke, I think we shouldn't be so quick to assume what the good doctor will think of this. It would be very pleasing to see her backing up Caz on this one, since Luke is victimizing women in that way... I have a hard time imagining a female doctor defending him at this point.

    Also, the scene I want to see... The FreakAngels figuring out what to do with Luke, then Kait just walking in and shooting him in the head. Put down like a dog with rabies. I know some of us here are trying to avoid the capital punishment discussion, but this is a survival scenerio with a limited population and resources. Should we be feeding and sheltering someone who not only doesn't contribute, but actively attacks other members of the population? Is rehabilitation of any sort really likely to work? Glad the situation is ficticious, hate to make these calls in reality.
    • CommentAuthorBellaInara
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited
    Great episode. I agree with other comments above: I think that it says a lot about Alice that she is not afraid of Luke and that she had the decency to try and protect the other girl. Also, I think that most of the rest of the group would be for Capital Punishment. Here is my take:
    I mean Caz and Sirkka are there and saying that they should have killed Mark when he messed with minds instead of exile.

    Karl and Kirk had the same conversation earlier and we also saw that Karl has no love for Luke. We also saw that Kirk is not against killing a FA, if it best for the group.

    Jack clearly does not like Luke.

    I think that Kait would agree, based on her sense of justice.

    Miki would probably be against it, as I think part of her guilt thing is not harming another person.

    KK is at least disgusted with Luke, the others might be able to get her to join them.

    Conner I think will side with Miki, towards not wanting to harm others, but I think that he could be convinced.

    Arkady has her own wonderful way of handing out punishments. However, I think with her it is going to come down to the last vision that she had of the future. Perhaps she saw Luke's death (for a second time) and saw how killing him caused greater harm. I am most interested in Arkady's take on this situation.

    In the end, do they really need everyone's agreement before handing out a punishment? Two alone can incapacitate Luke. Even with Mark, Kirk acted on his own.

    As for today, it is my day off, so I am doing cleaning and laundry. I'm getting a desk later today and I've got to make room for it. And I've wrote far more here than I had planned.

    Edited to add Jack. Forgot about him as he is off on his boat.
    • CommentAuthorGraizur
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited
    All your hate of this guy ends with one panel where the girl yells stop to the two FA attacking her Dom/Lover.

    I don't really care. How do ethics exist in a world with Mind control?
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited
    I wonder if we're finally about to meet Mark, actually... he'd screen himself until he was right on top of them and come to Luke's rescue.

    I don't think Miki will step up in support of this one... she won't want him dead (and she's really not going to want to have Luke on her slab), but I'm sure she'd want to dole out some other form of punishment. She IS a doctor... perhaps she can remove some things. And not tolerating rape is not the same as tolerating the murder of a rapist. Murder is still murder... now if he were to have an "accident" I think she might look the other way ;)
    But I'll wager that your prediction scenario with Kait is spot on!

    Also, I wonder if the FAs concentrated enough, they could just wipe Luke's mind of his powers. That way, he'd just be another asshole. It'd be fun if they could all transport his powers to Alice... but that's a total pipe dream, I know.
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    Niiice, we get a psychic battle, with flying stuffs and crackling grounds and naked wankers.
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    Doesn't look like Luke has any aces up his sleeve after all, it wasn't just the arrogance of thinking they'd allow him to get back to his raping, but telling them that only Arkady was strong enough to beat him? And saying he'd fix that?

    . Arrogance is one thing, but being all mouth and, no trousers, becomes highly delusional seeing he can't do the simple math that 2 beats 1, something he surely should have taken into account.

    My question this week is was he always this broken? Or did being chased by the hoo-mans and breaking the world rob him of whatever sense he had?

    And despite this being 'freakangels business' I'm wondering if Alice isn't going to find out exactly who did break the world from this, Luke and discretion obviously haven't been introduced.
    • CommentAuthorbuzzorhowl
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    As far as Freakangels killing other Freakangels, sure, the powers might not be able to act on each other that way, but as IndigoRose pointed out, Kait has a gun. That sure would take the guesswork out of things.

    Not that I'm necessarily advocating killing Luke. Or standing against it, either. I sure am curious to see where this goes in the next few episodes, though.
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited
    All your hate of this guy ends with one panel where the girl yells stop to the two FA attacking her Dom/Lover.

    You're saying that after he nudged a mortar on his fellow Angels and he very clearly tried to kill Alice and promised harm toward Arkady? Even if he's not a rapist (which is extremely fucking unlikely) he's still a right cunt.

    Oh, and @seanarcher, I'd love to see some more about that African tribe if you could conjure it up. Seems fascinating!
  3.  (6172.71)
    Yeah, that's why I phrased it as "you're probably right, but..." I just don't want people to assume it's going to be a black and white thing with her. Even if she doesn't want him killed, I don't think she's going to be soft on this. (At least I hope she won't, I will think less of her if she is imediately the pacifist. This situation is not the same as the last, where desperate/starving people were behaving desperately.) I just don't like the automatic assumption about her reaction.
  4.  (6172.72)
    ? Confusing comment. No such panel exists, and I think most people can guess quite easily that no such panel will exist.
    Ethics arise in a world with mind control via the same principle as they exist now... do unto others as the majority would have done to themselves. It's really not that complex except for the odd exception where someone might profess to enjoy pain or lack empathy, but those cases are the exception and can be reasoned out individually. So, if a group of posses empathy, ethics exist via the most universally basic logic. If you can read minds, you can perhaps understand the pain and fear of others all the more, leading to even stronger ethics (and equally extreme exceptions involving various degrees of sociopathy or bdsm).

    You got it right about Luke's wang. It's just a post-erection swelling, I think I imagined him pretty average in the pants department.
  5.  (6172.73)
    'My question this week is was he always this broken?'

    remember the flashback scenes earlier in the comic? Luke was a nasty master race sub nietzchian shit even then.
    • CommentAuthorQuixotess
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited
    I'm very wary of any television, movie, book, theatre, or comic form depiction of rape--many authors and artists seem to forget that their works are inevitably experienced by people who, you know, have actually been raped, and they will tend to treat rape as comedy, romance, soap-opera-type melodrama, or an opportunity for a kickass action sequence, amiright--to name just a few bad treatments.

    I've been watching this Luke subplot develop, basically, waiting for things to go wrong. So far, some things have and most things haven't.

    I am very pleased that the freakangels who have dealt with Luke's rapes and near-rapes have all been women. No opportunity for anyone to get their macho on. I like that Alice acknowledges her sense of violation and continuing trauma from Mark's mind control. I like that the freakangels are taking Luke's crime very seriously. I like how a rapist is portrayed--a smart guy, who has had girlfriends, who generally seems to be sexually successful, and who expects continued sexual success, someone who is, in fact, nominally a protagonist or with the protagonists. And who rapes, or intends to rape, more than once. (I certainly prefer it to, say, Gaiman's fondness for rapists as thugs with knives, or other brutes, and for whom rape seems be a great trope to add "atmosphere.") I also totally like showing Luke's junk; I think avoiding that would be an undeserved nod to his dignity.

    I am rather worried about the rape victim in this scene. I suppose it's not problematic yet, given that Luke was a dangerous and immediate threat to all present, but so far the story is completely ignoring her. She needs to be taken care of, sensitively and compassionately. She needs medical attention from Miki and from Sirkka. I'm not saying all of that ought to be portrayed in the comic, but it would seem...problematic...for the comic to treat her as a prop and not to have even a panel or something dealing with her, because, hey, she was only important to set off this confrontation/plot with Luke--treating her as a prop is, after all, what Luke has just done, and it would be icky in the extreme to have that echoed by the story. Even something like "you stay behind and take care of her, I'll get Luke over to Kirk" would be good; I'm a little afraid to see all three of them popping off and forgetting this woman.

    Still. I'm cautiously pleased. So far this treatment of rape is much better than I'm used to. Thank you for being responsible and respectful.
      CommentAuthormister hex
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    @ Quixotess - As seen in Vol. 1, when Alice herself arrived, having been messed with mentally by Mark (and physically, too, judging her reaction), Connor and Sirkka "cleansed" her mind. I imagine they'll do the same for this poor girl.

    I apologize if this gets a bit ... fan-boyish but ... what ARE the powers of the FreakAngel Package?

    Telekinesis - they can all do that. Telepathy - again, that's all of them.
    ARKADY alone can teleport. KAIT can ... re-animate dead things? Luke is a skilled mind-manipulator, as was Mark.

    And the TK seems seismic, like they create mini-earthquakes or something.

    One final note - I don't want to see the book turn into 'Lil FreakAngels' but I sure would like to see more of what they were like as children. Luke, especially.

    And I thought Warren loved us.
  6.  (6172.76)

    I agree that it is good to see a rapist depicted as a seemingly intelligent person who isn't using physical force to get what he wants (telepathy as a metaphor for the psychological manipulation many rapists/molestors use?). To create the popular image of a rapist as a physical brute, rather than the "intelectual" type that Luke appears to be, is actually quite dangerous.

    I don't think you have too much to worry about. Even from a purely mechanical point of view, I don't think Warren would leave that kind of a "loose-end", with them just popping off to take care of Luke and leaving her there (that would be bad writing regardless of the subject at hand)... unless it was immediately followed by Miki throwing the biggest fit ever because they didn't take care of the victim. Besides, Sirkka is there, she's the psychological/emotional healer type. I expect that girl will be well taken care of.
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited
    I never really paid attention before, but you're right... there is a terrible trope for rapists, being thugs with guns and knives, though I can't say I'm glad to see intelligent characters, Luke included, turned out to be rapists (my own was my black-belt, macho-dick boyfriend). And thinking on this sort of trend, now I'm wondering if Connor is the Whitechapel Murderer.
    I also like seeing the women taking care of this business (where HAVE all the guys gone in this comic??).

    Also, page 5 shows Alice shuffling the girl out of danger. I'm sure she'll be taken care of next week. But first thing's first... get rid of the threat.
    • CommentAuthorBellaInara
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    @ mister hex

    I agree, FAs as kids. We've had hints and references, but I'd love to see more.
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    @Dotcommunist yeah, he was shown to have that streak and seems to be the one who planted the idea for the FA strike back big time, but was he a rapist even then? Did he have any awareness of consequence? Was he trying this shit even back then and maybe one of the causes of them being hunted?

    Or in the brave new world has he just gone 'fuck it I'll do what I want'? Seeing as how he doesn't seem capable of remembering to put pants on without a keeper I wonder how back before the cataclysm the others regarded him. They've said he was the smartest but haven't qualified that with 'for a total skeevy rapist fuck up who almost got us killed in the first place' I wonder if he was broken or just born bad.
    • CommentAuthorSaiFai
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    I don't see why the FreakAngels are so freaked out by rape. (No pun intended.) As Alice has already stated the act of Mind Control/Manipulation is a form of rape and probably worse then actual physical rape. With this in mind the FreakAngels preform acts of rape by probing into peoples minds in an offhanded manner. True, while they may not force them to do anything, they are most likely manipulating their mind in much more subtle and passive ways. Sirkka's Harem may be an example of this. Luke as the most amoral and I assume because of the earlier chapters and philosophically minded person in the group see no difference between physical rape and what they normally do with their powers.

    I am in no way condoning Luke's actions, but what should be analyzed is what is the rape in the scene. Why doesn't Luke just hold down the women with the force and get the "business" on, why go through the trouble of making her want him when he could probably just wipe her memory afterwards. I think that it's because it's the fundamental skill set that each FA leans towards. (Not to mention draws less attention to Luke.) Luke specializes in Emotion manipulation and as stated by Kirk, I think, feeds of people's love in some manner. Since the women probably loves him in some manner due to mind control, the rape is the Mind Control and not the Physical act.

    So far from what I've seen Luke isn't a Pariah by choice. Everyone actively hates the "Smart Guy" like they are all Jerk Jocks beating on the Nerd. Luke seems to rub people the wrong way just by being himself, and he's that Friend the guy they wonder why they are friends with. I don't know if something bad happened between the FA and Luke or whether they blame him for convincing all of them to "End the World". It may just be their law, 'No Mind Control unless threatened by Death.' that is pissing them off so much. Either way killing him would just prove that the FA are no better then Luke himself. That they are more Nazi-minded then he ever was by killing the weakest link and making their race clean once more.

    Maybe Luke jumped off the Slippery Slop, maybe in a similar manner as Mark, but it seems that all the FA are fast approaching it.