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      CommentAuthormister hex
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2009
     (6172.161)
    @ johnjones - Of course! My mistake.

    That said, I think Connor has a crush on Alice and he feels badly about what Mark did to her (especially in the early episodes.) And Kirk feels guilty about destroying the world and Karl doesn't (as much, anymore.)

    Also! Sirkka (I believe - might've been KK) destroyed the knife at Connor's throat from a distance. Smashed it into little pieces.

    I like to see the parameters of the FreakAngel Package. Because it's just like people, innit? Some people are good at some things, some at others. Arkady is the only one who can teleport. (For now - I imagine they'll all learn how or already know, once Arkady figured it out.) Karl screens out all the bad shagging with a tinfoil hat. (Or maybe he learned how to hide himself - like Mark. Hmm?)
    I think Mark is the Whitechapel murderer and he's doing it to fuck with them. I could very easily be wrong. But this murder didn't just come out of left field, as it were. "Cutting at the edges." While they're all preoccupied with trying Luke ... one thing that's mentioned, early, is that Mark was one against eleven. Luke would be one against ten. If Mark shows up, it's two against ten. Not very good odds but still ...
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      CommentAuthorjohnjones
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2009
     (6172.162)
    Both Luke and Kait can screen and Luke was potent enough to screen multiple people at once when the refugees raided Whitechapel.

    I don't challenge Conner's guilt about Alice or his affection for her. I'm just not sure he respects her the way Kirk probably does. At the end of Volume I he refers to her as an "honorary Freakangel" because... well, really because she managed to keep her head and follow the simple instructions that he and Kirk had given her regarding the Watchtower.

    I think Alice proved her metal with Kirk during the morter attack and its aftermath. She caught what he and the others has missed - that the only way the morter round would've hit the Frakcave was with the help of a Freakangel. She also piped up about the idea of the raiders putting shooters in town and did so right before said shooters attacked Jack. She also climbed the tower to relieve Kirk so that he could take a personal hand in protecting Whitechapel instead of simply being the "eyes in the sky." And finally, in a funny but significant point, she respected his wishes enough to avoid "touching his stuff.

    While he refers to her as "new girl" and she refers to him as a "moaning pissflap," I think Kirk has a lot of respect for Alice and will stand up for her rights to be included in Freakangel business.

    What's even more interesting about this is that none of the above requires or even involves some sort of romantic triangle between Kirk, Alice and Conner. Instead I think Kirk sees Alice as a person worthy of his trust and respect first and a girl second. I'm not so sure about Conner.
    • CommentAuthorSaiFai
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009 edited
     (6172.163)
    Wonder if Luke's whole Parasite of Love thing factored into this. Something that's sort of been bothering me is that Luke is always described as being "Clever", so I have a feeling that he'll have a back up plan or three. Luke keeps saying he's going to pay everyone back and I'd like to see him pull out a "Exactly as planned moment." if only for a another reason to have him executed.

    Also I reread the scene when Luke was caught with his proverbially hand in the cookie jar and I found his dastardly comment quite humorous the second time around. Luke is basically getting caught for breaking their only law and the first words that come out of his mouth are genius. In context Luke is such a Bastard and I would like to applaud Mr. Ellis for writing him as such. The fact Luke can draw such a emotional response from the audience I believe is just a sign of good writing.
    • CommentAuthormc2
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009
     (6172.164)
    @ Dotcommunist

    'It needs but one foe to breed a war, not two, Master Warden,' answered Éowyn. 'And those who have not swords can still die upon them.'

    ALL EXTREMISTS MUST DIE!
    • CommentAuthormc2
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009 edited
     (6172.165)
    Oh, and [ed.: caught that, did you?]

    Anybody but @diello and me wanting to see 5 minutes of AOE? (Arkady Overdose Experience)
    Or am I just too LD50-as-psyche-punk-initiation-mystery-rite-of-passage for my own good?

    By FA temporal flow standards that could be, say, 46-48 panels of white. Think of everything else Warren and Paul could be doing those 2 weeks! The change in Luke, with his potential...
    • CommentAuthorBellaInara
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009 edited
     (6172.166)
    <blockquote>Anybody but @diello and me wanting to see 5 minutes of AOE? (Arkady Overdose Experience)
    Or am I just too LD50-as-psyche-punk-initiation-mystery-rite-of-passage for my own good?</blockquote>

    Oh yes! I loved seeing Arkady do something other than being lovable. She offers a nice third option to this situation. Because in the end, they are going to have to punish him somehow. I think that given the circumstances, AOE, exile, or death might be the only logical choices. Unless Warren feels like unveiling another choice/FA power that we do not know about currently.

    Something needs to happen. If anything, I think how they chose to deal with Luke will come into play with how they chose to deal with the Whitechapel murderer. If they are going to make Whitechapel into a revitalized civilization, then they are going to have to have a way to deal with crime. There is approximately 400 people that the FAs look after. Someone is going to kill/rape/steal. Let them learn how to handle it with one of their own, so that no one can come back and say what they are doing is too harsh or that they offer preferential treatment to FAs. A precedent of punishment is being established here. I personally count what happened to Mark as being when the FAs tried to avoid a problem. They now know that exile, for a FA, is not effective, and can later be dangerous.

    Of course, I am thinking of how I felt when I was 22/23. I was faced with a problem then that I could avoid or deal with harshly. I wussed out, and tried to avoid the situation. Looking back, I can see how I was able to convince myself that this was the best action for all. If given the chance, I would deal with it in the harsh way. In the long run, that would have protected my family better. I also showed my immaturity by trying to avoid the problem. The FAs, we've come to see, are still a bit immature. They are growing, but not everyone is there yet. Perhaps the situation with Luke will be what everyone needs in order to fully embrace the role they designed for themselves when they were 17.

    @Warren~give yourself a pat on the back. Your story-telling skills are obviously amazing. If it wasn't, there would be so much discussion about things that are slightly off topic. I couldn't imagine any of the TV shows that I watch engaging me into these type of discussions. Wonderful, really, to feel the need to discuss things.

    @Paul~Your artwork has been so inspiring that I am going to get back into art. It's been 10 years, but watching what you do each week has given me the itch back. Thank you for that.

    As usual, I've written more than I had planned. It is so nice to be engaged in this story!
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      CommentAuthorrazrangel
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009
     (6172.167)
    From the commentary here I'd say this has been one the more important works of Ellis's that I've read.

    I was busy throughout the weekend. Read the ep on Friday but had to spend today reading through this thread. A little bit glad I missed the what-is-actually-rape-and-should-it-merit-death discussion. I'm glad it happened, but I'm glad I didn't have the opportunity to say unconsidered things. Anyhow, I am a little taken aback by some comments that indicate there isn't as much of a big deal here with Luke's unnamed victim. "She wanted it, she wasn't present to it, she may have enjoyed it" are all wrong responses. It's exactly the attitude that they betray that allows rape to continue to happen.

    To the episode itself: again, some of the strongest storytelling I've seen from Our Illustrious Host to date. And furthermore, excellent work by Paul to crank up the intensity of action to meet the mood.

    And Alice may just be an honorary Freakangel for being bold enough to do what needs doing. Yay!

    My thoughts on what will befall Luke next regard simply that actions have consequences. And severely negative actions call for severely negative responses. Whether it's death, some kind of mental mutilation (lobotomy, destroying his ability to use the Package), chemical, physical or Freakangel castration, detention/incarceration of a nature that would work on an 'Angel...no matter what they go with, on its own it's going to look horrific. But something big and bad has to meet this action. Not to discourage others but because actions have consequences.

    (I believe that the human feeling for justice is a way to enact organized, populist revenge. And I don't think going with our feelings is a bad thing. We just shouldn't shoot ourselves in the collective foot in its pursuit.)
  1.  (6172.168)
    @ MC2

    'ALL EXTREMISTS MUST DIE!'

    I really hope you are joking here, otherwise you break the irony-o-meter

    Also:

    'It needs but one foe to breed a war, not two, Master Warden,' answered Éowyn. 'And those who have not swords can still die upon them.'


    A society need not war against itself and to induct that sort of us or them mentality into a discussion about morality and capital punishment worries me. We are not crusaders for a cause.
  2.  (6172.169)
    NERDS WILL STOP QUOTING FUCKING ELF STORIES AT EACH OTHER NOW
    •  
      CommentAuthorjohnjones
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009
     (6172.170)
    Awright guys, you heard the man. Time to switch to Harry Potter...
    • CommentAuthorBellaInara
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009
     (6172.171)
    I would, but I'd be afraid of having the eels sent after me.



    Ok, couldn't resist.

    Conner as HP?
    Luke as Draco?
    Mark as Voldemort?
    Miki as McGonagall?
    Kirk as Dumbledore?

    Going too far?
  3.  (6172.172)
    I'm not quite sure Mr. Ellis had intended the last two episodes to carry so much steam on the subject. Mind you, that's never a bad thing as healthy debate on such subjects is good.

    But I've been thinking more about the story at the moment. Most likely it's a sneak peek at how the FAs will have to handle Mark, but could it be some way of coercing Luke into some other role? Killing off such a well developed character generally involves a huge plot twist and I'm just not seeing it here.

    Most likely he's not a dead man anyways. I doubt that whatever Arkady will do to him will kill him, but I don't doubt it will make him wish he was dead...
  4.  (6172.173)
    I also just want to pop in here to praise Uncle Warren and Paul Duffield's willingness to show so much restraint -- I don't mean they're holding back, but that they're so confident in their skills, they couldn't give two shits and a pineapple what the audience thinks about the pacing or story content.

    And I've seen Warren really refine his skills on this. With Planetary, Fell, and Freakangels, he's really captured this tight crisp package of storytelling that no one else in comics really achieves.

    I don't know how well Paul's holding up on the side of art duties with the four-panel grids -- most artists I know would kick Warren in the head at this point. Mostly every artist wants to rip a splash page every other scene, or have exploding panels as much as they can, and yeah, they can have that, but you have to pay service to the story first.

    With that said, I'm not a big fan of the shorter works Warren's done -- the little three or six issue stints -- because, and he's said this before, he doesn't care about plot. He cares about characters and setting up situations and letting them react. (I think the only other novel that he's done that was long but didn't grab me was Doktor Sleepless which, granted, isn't over, but I'm still following it.

    Hope to see you guys in San Diego soon (I know it won't happen, but still...)
  5.  (6172.174)
    because, and he's said this before, he doesn't care about plot

    ...to the exclusion of all else.
  6.  (6172.175)
    lol at the comic book writer calling me a nerd. I think that qualifies me for some uber-geek award. Or the arse-eels.

    I have to agree that plot cannot rule all. When you are on a good riff, then riff. Otherwise you might as well be Crichton, Clancy or Grisham.


    I think Luke is going to be expelled and will end up teaming up with Mark in an attack on our Freak Angels. It seems the logical path...
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      CommentAuthorjohnjones
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2009
     (6172.176)
    I think Luke is going to be expelled and will end up teaming up with Mark in an attack on our Freak Angels. It seems the logical path...


    Which is why it won't happen - at least not immediately or without some external intervention (Mark rescuing Luke perhaps). I mean, c'mon, the 'angels aren't stupid. Like you say, that's a logical path if they banish. So they'll certainly see that path and take steps to avoid it.

    One of the things I like most about this series is that nobody comes off as a moron. Luke may not have much common sense, but even he is beyond brilliant intellectually.
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      CommentAuthormister hex
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2009
     (6172.177)
    Another thing I like about this is that Warren has written this ages ago and knows what's going to happen and enjoys watching us flail around like moths pinned to a board. And when I say "He enjoys it", I mean it displeases him sometimes and makes him laugh at others (I hope!) and at odd times, must touch his cold, dark heart at how much this means to so many people.

    Miki can see through things. Makes sense, as a doctor. Kait can reanimate the dead. Makes sense, as a detective. Arkady can teleport. Makes sense, as a psychonaut. (psikonot in Russian, natch! - Ed.)

    Mark will be a big reveal, y'all get me? He ain't just gonna pop up and say "Hello!"
    • CommentAuthorUrbanAngel
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2009
     (6172.178)
    I think that you're giving Luke too much credit - he seems pretty slow and not very clever at all.
    •  
      CommentAuthormister hex
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2009 edited
     (6172.179)
    He was described more than once as being "the most intellectual of all" the FreakAngels. Connor who described him "He's spent too long in his own head. From up there in his brain, we all look a bit like ants."

    Also - KK and Caz are engineering whizzes so they can probably see the inner workings of machinery. Makes sense. Connor, Karl, Kirk, Jack, Sirkka and Luke (and Mark) have not revealed their Secret Freakangel Skill. (Although Luke's is probably mind-kontrol.)

    And just in case you needed it, it's arrived.


    EDIT TO ADD - Note secret entrance to underground complex at bottom left of photo.