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Printheads: The LongBox Digital Comics thread
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CommentAuthorProfessor Imagine
- CommentTimeJun 29th 2009
side note: mentioned this to my LCS guy yesterday. he hadn't heard of it yet. linking him to this thread. -
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- CommentAuthorhelloMuller
- CommentTimeJun 29th 2009
What? No UK launch yet? *cries
Damn regional copyright. -
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CommentAuthorDazedRambler
- CommentTimeJun 29th 2009
Late to the party and likely reiterating what has already been said. I have a budding interest in comics, I grew up with the cartoons and such of the bigger names, but they never led to any actual desire to look into comics. It wasn't until I discovered Warren Ellis that the interest started to grow and that was like a year ago. I live in the middle of nowhere and the closest comic shop I can find has a fairly pitiful collection of comics in it. The last time I was in the shop there were more used board games than comics. When it comes right down to it, my one remaining source is the internet, which means I either download the comics or I order them off Ebay. I don't care about hard copies, I am more comfortable reading off my computer screen than I am sitting down with a comic and I have very little room to store them. The ability to buy the comics I want (or to sample a wide variety), when I want is something that would definitely lead to me dropping more money on comics. I am a casual fan that spends next to nothing on comics, but I have the inclination to become more than that and spend my money... all it takes is better access. Something tells me I am not alone. -
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This looks good, and I'd use it definitely (if comes out for Linux), except for the DRM bit. Why not just do the files in jpgs or bmps? I've been burned too many times with proprietary formats - I want to know that something I buy will still be accessible in 5+ years.
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We have steps in place to make sure that you'll have access to the content you've purchased 5 years from now, regardless of if the company is still in existence. Without DRM, you'd get (at best) 50% of the comic creators and publishers. Realistically, much less than that, but I'll be generous and say the number is that high without DRM. Will that change over time? Depends on the market, the IP holders, publishers, etc.
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Rantz - I can't say I understand the publisher's reluctance, but I anticipated it. I don't understand it cuz that cat's been out of the bag quite a while. Heck, 5 years ago a cop(!) friend of mine downloaded torrents of every comic published each week, burned them to a CD and organized on his shelf (and rarely read them . .). I assume it's gotten only worse since then and anyone who actually pays for a digital comic is doing so because they want to be honest in the first place, so why bother with DRM; but I guess the publishers either don't know about that or. . some other explanation I don't comprehend.
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@AudieB
Were anyone so inclined, by Saturday night this week they could have any comic that came out Wednesday from multiple sources. For the bigger/popular books you can get them even faster. I'd bet good money that Batman and Robin #2 is scanned and readily available online by 7:00pm or earlier Wednesday evening.
DRM is just...I don't quite understand it. It has never worked. All it has done is make life more difficult for the paying customers. Spore, despite it's arse eel summoning DRM was torrented like a million times, many of which by people who bought the game but were screwed out of playing it because of the insanely strict DRM. It's really talked up and it's something all publishers want to see but with every major PC games release the game is cracked and uploaded DRM free before the game actually streets.
It just feels like shooting yourself in the foot. I'm more then willing to pay for my comics, I want to. And I do. More then once for things I really love! Nothing would make me happier then to have a paid version of what the pirates have now. Same-Day release, fast downloads, simple and lagless reader. That's available for free. Right now. With compatibility with my PSP/PS3/iPhone/iPod Touch. And that's what Longbox is going to have to compete with.
@Rantz
I completely understand why Longbox will have and need DRM to recruit publishers, the above was just a mind dump regarding my frustration with the publisher's obiviousness to what is actually going on online with digital comics. -
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CommentAuthorwarrenellis
- CommentTimeJun 29th 2009
DRM is just...I don't quite understand it. It has never worked.
cough iTunes cough -
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<i>cough iTunes cough </i>
Right. But aside from the sewers, and the roads, what have the Romans ever done for us? -
iTunes DRM has always been easy to bypass, simply by burning an audio CD and ripping it back. And DRM-free iTunes Plus is the standard now. It "works" in so far as it made the major label feel good and didn't affect the user experience.
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It's also "worked" in that they've sold five billion fucking songs! DRM-free came only as a result of that astounding success.
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CommentAuthorProfessor Imagine
- CommentTimeJun 29th 2009
I don't know where this comes in, or exactly how it applies to the discussion, but it is the most pertinent example I can come up with and feel compelled to share/confess:
EpicFU featured FreakAngels about the same time that a brand new good friend of mine was recommending Doctor Sleepless, based on our mutual taste in graphic literature. Both projects immediately struck chords with me, and while I'd remembered hearing the name Warren Ellis before, I couldn't tell you anything he'd written... but lo and behold, he's following Joss on Astonishing. So I ask my LCS dealer for recommendations and he offers me the first Planetary trade. "Mystery Archeologists mapping the secret history of the 20th Century?" SOLD! As soon as I reach the end, I immediately hit the internet, knowing exactly where to go for the rest of the story, right then and there, instant gratification. This has been a few months now, and I'm at the store for my infrequent cash dump. The only title in my box is Astonishing, and I'm not accustomed to transactions under $50 so I'm digging through the trades and come up with vol. 2 and 3 and I little title I'd never heard of, "Red."
When I'm at home, on a comics binge, 70 miles from the nearest LCS which isn't likely to have the inventory I'm needing anyway, I download indiscriminately. Why? Because it's available. But I'm also a consumer who knows his place in the industry, and I know that if I'm not buying the stuff I love, it will cease to exist.
That's why FreakAngels is such a perfect example of a (hopefully) workable business model. You've got hundreds of people clamoring to spend $60 on a field bag, and feeling privileged to be in the lucky few who actually get to make that transaction and show their support for a product that will continue to be provided for free regardless. Hell, I knew I was holding out for the HC of Vol. 1, but bought the soft trade in stock at the store for my best friend (15+ year nerd buddy), because I can not get him to read a digital comic and FreakAngels, cliché as it may be, is a must read.
So thanks, William, Warren, Paul, Ariana, Mark and the entire Avatar gang for being bold and attempting to change the game, or change with the game.
Rantz, that is what LongBox represents to many of us, with our finger on the pulse and a clear vision of the future. It's the game changer we've been waiting on, and I'll do everything in my power, both financial and promotional, to see that it succeeds.
up to and including beta testing as a high volume digital comics consumer ;) -
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- CommentAuthortcatsninfan
- CommentTimeJun 29th 2009
Unlike Spore's DRM, the DRM with LongBox isn't going to prevent you from enjoying the content.
I don't know how many of you realize how behind the times print publishers can be. I mean don't get me wrong, they're a great bunch of guys and all, but sometimes they refuse to look a few years down the road and anticipate the changes that the Internet will bring about. For example, it wasn't until the middle of 2008 that a newspaper company I used to work for removed user registration from their website. That means that, until 2008, you couldn't read ANY of their stories unless you had a subscription with them. You can imagine how many people just went to Google and found a local news station or national news website instead.
In my mind, I'm glad it's just a proprietary format and nothing else too major. It could be a lot worse. And I take Rantz at his word when he says we'll have access to our stuff years down the road regardless of whether or not LongBox is still around. I mean who knows, maybe in a year's time the DRM will be eliminated altogether. -
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CommentAuthorJamie Coville
- CommentTimeJun 29th 2009
Rantz, just wanna say good luck with this. -
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DRM (from an average user POV) becomes an issue only when it prevents you from using or enjoying the content you've purchased in ways that you would logically expect to be able to. You're never going to STOP piracy, so the best you can do, in order to assure publishers and creators that you're not making it 'easier' for pirates is a.)have a system that prevents people from easily just 'handing off files'. and b.)doesn't annoy, or get in the way of legitimate usage. The LBX Schema is unique (to the point where parts of it are patented) and is designed from the ground up to not annoy, frustrate, or piss off legitimate users.
It's a trade off... do you want the majority of publishers to be on a platform? Then there has to be a form of DRM. Since the LongBox model is to HAVE the majority of publishers on the platform, our guiding principle then becomes "Don't ever let DRM become an issue for people who have purchased the content".
(Because, having had the discussions with publishers and creators, I can tell you, we would not have very much in the way of content without it) -
- CommentAuthorTechnocratJT
- CommentTimeJun 30th 2009
Well,
I think an important point here is it is not Longbox's (or Rantz) job to fight DRM anymore than to preserve local stores. This needs to happen in a big way, and getting publishers on board, no matter how reasonable their concerns are or not (we are not going to resolve DRM as an argument here) is a big deal.
Now the other thing is proprietary format has the advantage of preserving visual intent. That may sound like a small thing, but from an artistic perspective a format that has certain rules can be much more desirable than a totally open format. It also allows the publisher to control the general presentation, retain advertisers and continuity as single books. Fidelity of visual intent can be important. -
@Rantz:
What about previews and/or the size and availability of previews? Not the shitty Sears Catalog of comic books, but actual content previews.
One thing that has always bothered me with Amazon is how seemingly arbitrary it is when it allows you to preview content, or when the content itself is almost useless, like only showing the foreword as the "first pages". I would absolutely love a 100% ubiquitous preview of all content, maybe something like 10 to 15% of the content available for everything. -
- CommentAuthortcatsninfan
- CommentTimeJun 30th 2009
@christoph
You can preview up to 5 pages with each comic book before you buy it. The publisher chooses the pages to be included in the preview...that way, they can choose 5 pages that don't give any big reveals away. And I believe the previews are zoomed at 100% too, not like really small thumbnails or something. -
Like so many nerds across the globe, I've been toying with such ideas since forever. Glad to see somebody is actually doing it right.
My personal feature-request is the ability to buy original-language comics, not just the usual anglo rubbish. I've been desperate to get hold of Italian and (especially) French comics here in the godforsaken North of England. The French market is humongous and is the perfect weapon of audience-enlargement, almost 100%-non-superhero and some of the production doesn't even need translating. Also, Frenchmen are actually used to pay big money for their balloons, so you can easily sell them "enhanced content" at markup prices.
I find it ironic that people are worried about LCSs. The business model for those in US/UK/Europe changed quite a while ago, it's now almost completely based on selling merchandise and boardgames; without those sources of income, they would have all but disappeared years ago. If anything, Longbox shaking the market up could mean they start to see some real income from comics again.
<radical-chic-bullshit>
My philosophical stance on DRM doesn't agree with your iTunes-model, but I understand how it's required to get the publishers on board, and we all know it will be cracked in a few weeks anyway. I also don't see the point in geo-limited websites, but again that's something we know how to route around until publishers get to learn what this "intertube" thing is.
</radical-chic-bullshit> -
- CommentAuthorhelloMuller
- CommentTimeJun 30th 2009
DRM is just...I don't quite understand it. It has never worked.
cough iTunes cough
cough and Apple is now starting to offer DRM free content because they finally realized its a moot point cough
Respect your customers and they'll come back for more. Look at Bleep, Boomkat,… and every other successful independent digital download store.