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Printheads: The LongBox Digital Comics thread
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@Rantz
Yeah, I understand why Longbox is going to be running DRM and I'm totally fine with it. Whatever it takes to get as many publishers onboard as possible, because I really want this thing to work and work well. Due to an hours change I no longer have such an easy time of getting to the LCS to buy my comics and would love to not have to jump through hoops every Wednesday.
@warrenellis
Touche, but I was meant working as in "preventing piracy". One can still illegally download anything and load it onto whatever iDevice they have. All it's doing is making it difficult for its users. But as the poster above me mentions, they are offering DRM free content for an additional $.39 cents I believe. -
- CommentAuthorTechnocratJT
- CommentTimeJun 30th 2009
cough and Apple is now starting to offer DRM free content because they finally realized its a moot point cough
Because they made a huge amount of money and were able to convince their partners DRM free would now be more money. Including from many of the original sales to upgrade the songs. That last bit of double dipping is both important and unfortunate. But there is no way to get around the fact Itunes was massively successful while totally under DRM, and was only able to build that model under publisher requested DRM agreements. -
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CommentAuthorProfessor Imagine
- CommentTimeJun 30th 2009
This DRM debate begs a larger question that I'm sure someone who has crunched the numbers on this project can answer for me:
Are the major publishers really necessary for the success of this project?
If every small or independent publisher got on board and Marvel and DC missed the boat, would this still be a sustainable venture?
If success is defined by creating a one-stop-digital comics shop or iComics, then no. The alternative would be the Big Guys each coming up with their own inferior solutions that they would have control over, right? But if LongBox is the best (and possibly only multi-publisher outlet), and starts generating revenue and gaining popularity, they would either sign on or fail, right?
Like GM, would it be such a bad thing if the market evolved and we only ended up with 1 X-Title a month? Does anyone see potential here for trimming some of the market's bloat?
I know the object is not to start a distribution war, but if that ends up being the unintended result, what potential benefit would the market reap? -
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@Professor Imagine
I kind of feel like Longbox will need at least Marvel or DC in addition to Dark Horse and another Indy company. Superhero comics are the biggest selling comics and are pretty much singlhandedly keeping the direct market afloat while simultaneously pushing indy titles off the shelves. I really like that revenue stream is going to be key here.
I certainly wouldn't mind a shift away from superhero-centric in comics, but with the movie turn around and relative sucess of the superhero movie creating oppertunities to cross-promote on the new formats like Blu-Ray and Download Services which already have internet connections and could allow people who bought the movie to instantly download some comics right to their player.
I worry most about the stubbornness of the comics reader. Who are more concerned with the "LCS experience" and "Need to hold the real deal in my hands because reading on a screen is a dead experience". I tried talking about this on a forum that's primarily superhero-centric and I haven't had many responses and most of the ones I did get dealt with not wanting to pay for a reader to read comics on the crapper. It was disheartening. -
- CommentAuthorTechnocratJT
- CommentTimeJun 30th 2009 edited
I am rather under the impression that the chances of getting Marvel (who has their own Digital plans)or DC (who is Warner) are at best "in 2-3 years if it succeeds, " and I suspect major publisher in this discussion refers to Dark Horse, Top Cow, IDW, Avatar and so on. -
IFanboy has beem kind enough to host video of the HeroesCon panel & demo, so you can see it for yourselves...
LongBox at HeroesCon -
- CommentAuthortcatsninfan
- CommentTimeJun 30th 2009
@Professor Imagine
Asking whether Marvel and DC are necessary is kind of like designing an application that won't run on Windows or OS X. The key to success here is getting non-hardcore comic readers involved...that's when the money will really show up. And let's face it, at this stage in the game most of these people are very focused on Marvel and DC.
Plus, we as outsiders don't even know which publishers are interested in the DRM. Is it only Marvel and DC or is it all of them? What about Image and Dark Horse?
I wouldn't compare Marvel and DC to GM, at least not at this point. Theoretically, if Marvel and DC didn't get on board with LongBox I don't think they would just die out...I think it's like you say, they'll end up coming up with their own solutions and going from there.
Is the market really bloated? Sure, we have a lot of books coming out every month that feature Wolverine, Spider-Man, Batman, and so on, but is that a bad thing? Don't get me wrong, I don't read many of these books myself and often wonder how in the hell there can be half a dozen Spider-Man books alone every month, but when this recession hit it kind of put things in perspective. Think about how many people Marvel and DC employ. Not just the writers and artists and such, but the editors and the merchandising people and on and on and on. Maybe the companies are too big, but would you be happy if they slashed their number of monthly books and laid off hundreds, possibly thousands, of people? -
- CommentAuthorhelloMuller
- CommentTimeJun 30th 2009
Because they made a huge amount of money and were able to convince their partners DRM free would now be more money. Including from many of the original sales to upgrade the songs. That last bit of double dipping is both important and unfortunate. But there is no way to get around the fact Itunes was massively successful while totally under DRM, and was only able to build that model under publisher requested DRM agreements.
Yes, because through the deals they were able to make with the labels, they practically became the defacto market leader overnight.
Its only after Amazon MP3 selling DRM-free content that Apple started making the switch.
The "safety" of DRM is a bit of a moot point really. When we (the company I work at) built Bleep for Warp Records we went DRM free. It didn't hurt sales at all, and Bleep quickly became a hub for hundreds of independent labels to sell digital content. (Of course I know its much easier to work with 1 label's own download store, compared with a 3rd party app distribution other companies' IP)
As usual, it'll be the "small" independent (i.e. LBX) that will have to lead the way. And I fucking do hope they succeed! -
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CommentAuthorProfessor Imagine
- CommentTimeJun 30th 2009 edited
was just reading Ironman:Extremis (digitally) and came across this quote, which sums up alot of the debate raging in this thread:
"You can't just wish the future into being. It has to be paid for."
typo -
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I, like most others here, am very interested in this. Picking an example at random.... After the series of convoluted messes DC has made with their "Crisis" crossover books, I've always shied away from any of their big stories. However, after hearing good things about the "Sinestro Corps War" I picked up a few issues, thinking to just check it out. I liked them, but (again, as many others have said) availability of the remaining story was a problem. If I could have gone and grabbed them online for a buck apiece I would have. In a heartbeat. This idea has a real serious chance to succeed in a big way, and I'm really hoping it does.
As far as DRM goes; I get it. From the small indy publisher thinking "I have to eat this week, I need every sale I can get." all the way up to the big 2 thinking "We need to protect out properties!" I get it. But anyone who has watched the issue over the last few years knows it is possible to make money without forcing DRM on people. How many bands have given away their music just to have their fans go and buy their CD as well? How many webcomics continue to make money off sales of their books and other merch while giving away their daily/weekly strips? Last year Ironclad and Stardock put out the computer game "Sins of a Solar Empire" with no DRM of any kind on it. People lost their minds over this, how could a company do this? Just let their game loose in the wild like that, free to be copied and traded and pirated all willy-nilly? And they sold hundreds of thousands of copies.
Here's the thing; the people and groups and companies that make money consistently without using DRM all put out good products. That's it, as simple as it can be. Put out something worthwhile and people will pay for it.
I think there are a lot of people that want to see this succeed and will pay for comics even with DRM, but they're all going to be hoping the same thing, that maybe, eventually, it'll go away. -
@Rantz:
What about previews and/or the size and availability of previews? Not the shitty Sears Catalog of comic books, but actual content previews.
5-8 page previews, determined by the publisher, which can be either sequential or non-sequential (to avoid spoilers, give a better sense of the 'feel' of the book, etc) Previews are smaller than the LBX file pages (to ensure speed in a catalogue of potentially 100s of thousands of titles) but are large enough you should get a good feel for what the comic is like. -
- CommentAuthorMisterSmith
- CommentTimeJun 30th 2009
Rantz (& Co.), have you had any cases so far with certain books/creators not being on the service because of pressure from companies who don't support it? (For the sake of example) have guys like Bendis and Brubaker turned down putting their own books like Powers and Criminal on Longbox because of their close relationship to Marvel and their current lack of support for Longbox?
Also, for the gift cards, would they be sold exclusively through comic retailers or would we be able to find them in places like (for example) Borders and Target as well? -
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CommentAuthorwarrenellis
- CommentTimeJun 30th 2009
Rantz (& Co.), have you had any cases so far with certain books/creators not being on the service because of pressure from companies who don't support it? (For the sake of example) have guys like Bendis and Brubaker turned down putting their own books like Powers and Criminal on Longbox because of their close relationship to Marvel and their current lack of support for Longbox?
Do you REALLY expect him to answer that? -
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Do you REALLY expect him to answer that?
Beat me to it... -
- CommentAuthorMisterSmith
- CommentTimeJun 30th 2009
Well, definitely not with examples or specific details. Wasn't expecting much of anything, took a shot anyway. -
Well, I know Warren REALLY wants to be on LongBox, but William won't let him out of his Avatar Shackles...
(I am SO joking. William has been nothing but nice to deal with, and Warren can drink us both under the table and make us cry like schoolgirls.) -
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CommentAuthorAndySpield
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2009
Longbox looks amazing. I use digital comics on my little G1 phone for my train commute but there's very little offered.
Hoping that Longbox solves the content issue. Like many other people on this thread, I'm more than willing to try any number of titles for 99-cents a pop. The more, the merrier. I mean, I don't want to watch any necrophiliac clown pedophile stuff, but I can get into lots of other things.
With that in mind, I hope that more creators feel like they can get involved in comics and make a little bit of coin on their creations. And that more creators pop a wider array of genre (from gangster homo sex to pageant romance melodrama to coffeehouse cliques discovering witchcraft to cowboy gorillas to dinosaur alien explorers to, yes, spandex fetishists).
I've already been forced to switch to digital for books & music just due to space concerns. Can't wait for Longbox. Bring it on! -
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With that in mind, I hope that more creators feel like they can get involved in comics and make a little bit of coin on their creations. And that more creators pop a wider array of genre (from gangster homo sex to pageant romance melodrama to coffeehouse cliques discovering witchcraft to cowboy gorillas to dinosaur alien explorers to, yes, spandex fetishists).
A huge motivation in doing this is that I am sick of seeing very talented creators and friends of mine have to make the choice of a.) have a day job (or 3) in order to be able to pay the bills b.) do comics they really don't want to do in order to pay the bills, c.) give up doing comics or d.) make the choice to basically starve to death in order to be able to keep doing the comics they love. We expand the market past the limitations (in terms of numbers of shops, people willing to Go to shops, and the type of content they typically support) in the majority of LCS', and I think we'll end up being surprised at the types of books that end up becoming the 'big hits'. An example would be the Nintendo DS game "Cooking Mama". Trying to sell that game, prior to the DS having 40 million units installed worldwide, would NEVER have gotten approved. But at those installed numbers, the game could sell to .04% of the installed user base and still be profitable. Four years ago, the discussions with publishers (prior to the DS launch) were VERY different than they are now in terms of both them approving titles, and what kind of titles they prefer to focus on, because (after the willingness to experiment) games like Cooking Mama and Brain Age have actually ended up selling well BEYOND 0.04% percent, AND ended up actually expanding the demographics of the installed user base (i.e. people like my mom ended up buying a DS because of games like that).
It's an exciting time for comics on so many levels. -
i was skeptical about reading comics on my computer but then i realised i've been reading freakangels online since the start.
i just became much more excited about this -
- CommentAuthortcatsninfan
- CommentTimeJul 5th 2009
@Rantz
Will you give us Whitechapelites invitations to the beta? I know that people at SDCC and CBR members will get some kind of notice but I don't fall into either of those groups.