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Printheads: The LongBox Digital Comics thread

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  1.  (6217.61)
    as a longtime fan/supporter of digital comics, I will be using Longbox, regardless of the final form it takes or the publishers involved. also, I'm in the Linux camp and would like to declare my "demand" publicly. that said, how would one participate in this beta period?

    ironically, I'm financially stable enough now to be continually adding books to my pull list (thanks for the heads up on diamond restocking Ignition City, btw) and am bound (pun) and determined to show my financial support for the creators whose work I enjoy (by purchasing field bags, etc). I do, however, share the frequently voiced concern about the impact this will have on our LCS. what consideration, if any, is being made for their long-term viability in this scenario?
    •  
      CommentAuthororwells_eyes
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009 edited
     (6217.62)
    @Rantz:

    Totally serious question here, are you taking investors?

    Cause, to be frank, I look at this and say "That's how I'm going to be reading comics come five years from now."
  3.  (6217.63)
    I do, however, share the frequently voiced concern about the impact this will have on our LCS. what consideration, if any, is being made for their long-term viability in this scenario?

    Let me spin that back at you: why should Longbox make any consideration for your local comics shop?
    •  
      CommentAuthorPJBurke
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
     (6217.64)
    Until we get some other venue for advertising, I think the local shop is still the best way for fans to find new books to check out - regular book stores don't or won't devote the shelf space necessary to stock very many if any indie books, and certainly don't cater to non-graphic-novel books. Longbox has the potential to change that, but until it gains the kind of market share and brand recognition of even something like the Zune Marketplace its not going to happen.

    Which doesn't mean I don't think the FLCS model should stay as it is, but that's another discussion.

    Rantz, will longbox offer anything like the iTunes Gift Cards? Stocking those at local shops will give the stores a bit of kickback and hopefully get them to put the word out a bit on yoru behalf.
    •  
      CommentAuthorlordmitz
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
     (6217.65)
    thought i'd just pop my head in to say: rantz, i genuinely hope this all comes to fruition and succeeds. this all seems like an amazing step forward for both creators AND readers.
    •  
      CommentAuthorFerburton
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
     (6217.66)
    this sounds interesting and like it's the right way to be going with digital comics, makes me wonder why it hasn't been done until now. Though I do like comics better in print, I could see losing the single issues for this and them being collected into graphic novels and being sold in print that way.

    @PJBurke - For me, the LCS here are the worst place to try and find new books to check out, unless you want to find old books they've got in boxes stuffed in the back, priced for more then they're worth. My experience with LCS is they stock their shelves with comics they know will sell or if they get enough requests for a comic. The Longbox looks like it'll be more help for an indie cartoonist then a LCS is. If anything, it'll be the indie artists and publishers that might get this Longbox thing off the ground.
  7.  (6217.67)
    I do, however, share the frequently voiced concern about the impact this will have on our LCS. what consideration, if any, is being made for their long-term viability in this scenario?

    Let me spin that back at you: why should Longbox make any consideration for your local comics shop?


    point. but when I look at this and attempt to view the future through this lens, I see my guy hurting bad, possibly even out of business, and that's unfortunate, tragic even. he was commenting the other day that two of his biggest subscribers just dropped their pulls from 60+ books per month down to 5. I'm heading over there tomorrow and plan to get his perspective on this whole thing. in the meantime, does anyone know if there's any organized strategy on the LCS end to prepare and adjust for the future, or is it an "everyman for himself" deal?

    because I've got an idea.... ;)
    • CommentAuthor/
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
     (6217.68)
    Just a thought: My LCS <em>might </em>be able to get by without comics. They could possibly get by with memorabilia alone. I usually spend just as much on collectibles there as I do comics and I'm sure I'm not the only one...

    Not professional opinion, obviously, just personal observation.
  9.  (6217.69)
    @PJBurke

    To answer your question, yes, Rantz did mention iTunes-like gift cards that could be stocked many places, including local comic shops.

    I have a similar story to Ferburton with my LCS. The guys that work there don't have a passion for comics and hardly ever read them. The only things they stock are the things they know they can sell. Now, granted, it'd be foolish of them to order indie stuff if it won't sell, but on the other hand I think they could get that stuff to sell if they actually read things and had discussions with customers when they came in.

    It's tragic that local comic shops might lose business to LongBox, but what's the alternative? I think Rantz is going to try to help out the local shops within reason, but beyond that there's not a lot that can be done in my opinion.

    Think about it in these terms: I think LongBox will do more to help out local comic shops than what news websites will do to help out the newspaper industry, which is to say LongBox will do more than nothing.
  10.  (6217.70)
    I think the local shop is still the best way for fans to find new books to check out…

    That’s always been the argument, but honestly I don’t think it holds much water anymore. Fifteen years ago LCSs were amazing, but these days they’re falling apart as the related industries fade. Most of the LCSs I’ve been can only afford space for Marvel DC, Marvel, and maybe some Image books. Most of the trades they sell are Marvel and DC. If you want anything else you need a subscription. Because most of them use horribly dysfunctional software for their orders, the orders get fucked up. If the store doesn’t fuck up the orders, Diamond does. Tabletop gaming doesn’t bring in the money it once did because the game companies burned their customers on D20 crap and collectible games the same way comic companies did in the 1990s, so that income is lost, too. The owners are always in debt and trying to come up with some new thing that might actually make the store profitable long enough to pay down the last batch of losses. Eventually the current superhero boom will fade out after Hollywood has milked Marvel movies for every last drop their worth and stores won’t even have that income to rely on. The LCS is becoming a really shitty business model, and I don’t know that anybody is being done a favor by stringing it along on life support.
    • CommentAuthorgzapata
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
     (6217.71)
    Professor Imagine- sooo whats your idea lol

    I think a good business model might be to actually merge a comic shop with another industry that might be able to work off each other. Like a game store, coffee shop or something. Coffee shop/comic store would be interesting. Borders already has a coffee shop inside their store near my house. Not sure if that's normal for them or not though. Pretty much anything to get us out of our regular niche
    • CommentAuthorpi8you
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
     (6217.72)
    If I had any desire to try and operate a business, an uber-shop that catered to the variages of nerddom has always been the thing I'd want to do. Get a huge space, several stories tall, fill the walls/racks with books, comics, movies/videos, and games, and areas setup to partake in each, a cluster of PCs (and wifi), as well as some sort of coffee or pizza shop. Of course, this would be the biggest headache ever to manage, and being profitable would be more than a bit of a nightmare, but its the sort of haven I've always wanted to go to, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
    •  
      CommentAuthorPJBurke
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009 edited
     (6217.73)
    I guess I'm spoiled - the LCS in my areas have largely been well stocked with not just the big 3, but a variety of indie books, manga, etc. I just don't see another route currently to introduce budding fans to new and lesser known projects and publishers. Hell, I'm a fan and even I can't keep up with hitting CBR and the news sites often enough to really stay on the pulse of the industry.

    I do think we'll end up seeing a fusion of the LCS with other industries; I know at least one shop hoping to get off the ground stocking tabletop RPG/Wargaming, along with current run comics and a selection of graphic novels, and anime and manga offerings, plus related collectibles; the idea being to be the one-stop nerd mecca, staff with experts in each field, and cross-pollinate the fandoms as much as possible. Get the Warhammer guys reading the comics, etc. This will all be in association with a web storefront as well, and I know the owners would be all kinds of on fire to support a program like Longbox. Getting a dime from 1000 people instead of a dollar from 50.
    • CommentAuthorDC
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
     (6217.74)
    pi8you you're thinking on the manga model. In Japan there are some stores, several stories high with everything manga-related that you can buy or rent and read everything and anything you want for a small price (it's something like 2$ for and hour or something like that). They have everything there. Food, computers, beds (not sure), anything you can imagine to make people stay.
  15.  (6217.75)
    The problem with the all-geek store is that it involves selling a bunch of stuff that has low margins, low volume, is very cyclical, etc. I’ve seen people make it work, especially in affluent areas, or when they could nail a location with cheap rent near a military base. But I’ve also seen a lot of these businesses fail, and usually they’re sold to someone who thinks he’s found the perfect new support system in wargaming or coffee or LAN gaming or merch and finds out that he’s really just thrown a little more sand under his house.
    • CommentAuthorpi8you
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2009
     (6217.76)
    You know, I know about those places (possibly in more depth than average even), but it never crossed my mind when thinking about it in a Western setting, probably because I've always approached it from the card/tabletop gaming side of the equation. There's also the general (or at least perceived) difference in nerd-density of the populations, outside of some of the huge cities in the US, it just doesn't seem like it'd be able to support the necessary traffic to keep afloat.
  17.  (6217.77)
    …but it never crossed my mind when thinking about it in a Western setting…

    And these kind of stores do tend to work better in a country like Japan where entrenched customs of hospitality make it a PITA to have or be a guest. For Americans it’s much easier for friends to socialize in each others homes.
  18.  (6217.78)
    well, first of all, my LCS website sucks utterly. At the very least, a mere cosmetic overhaul would be a vast improvement. however, I think big, and envision a complete web portal that would function as social network, forum, subscription manager/notifier, and industry related feed aggregator. Essentially digitizing the actual LCS itself, while still purchasing hard copies from the hard store. I want a system where, rather than having to pick up the phone and call during normal business hours (don't know why, but my guy is kind of anti-email... go figure) I can log into my account at my LCS website, add and remove titles, and also be automatically notified when the title releases to the store. I'd be able to manage my pullbox akin to the "shopping cart" on etail sites. currently, I get all of my industry news through here(WC), and now, bleedingcool on tuesdays when warren reminds me to check it. I've also been catching acomicbookorange irregularly since it's relaunch. what I'm envisioning is a repurposing of existing tools to increase the web-presence of our respective LCS's and network them in a way that will, hopefully, be mutually beneficial for all involved parties.


    of course, maybe "real" LCS's do this already, and I'm just out here in Bum-Fuck Mississippi buying comics in the Stone Age.

    and based on what I've read so far on this Longbox (great fuckin' name, btw! I mean... shit.) it will accomplish all of this and more, sans brick and mortar. no one seems to lament the passing of the brick and mortar movie rental joint? netflix and redbox just work better, therefore, they win. but the LCS is such a cherished an ingrained institution of our culture (by our, of course, I mean comic readers) that it would be a shame to see it fall by the wayside.

    which brings us to the larger question here: how much of the real world are we willing to sacrifice for the digital?
  19.  (6217.79)
    while reading the comments posted since I started typing that last one, this light bulb flashed on:

    the LCS should offer mini-workshops and courses on (1)comic history and (2)production.

    (1)I know this 20 yr old female who just got turned on, borrowing Watchmen from me prior to the film release. her brother's a huge marvel fan, and now she wants to know all there is to know about the history of the marvel universe. I gave her 500+ digital issues of Uncanny and placed my two FA HC in her hands, grinning as she instantly immersed herself (asking upon reaching pg 7 "why is she saying 'fooking'?" LOL) a primer course in marvel history by her local expert would do her well, of course she could just listen to me and her brother rant for hours...

    of course, I'd much rather attend a course on comparative genres, sci-fi comic commentary, or shit, here's one: "How Warren Ellis became Internet Jesus By Exposing Inherent Flaws in All Immanent Futures" that, of course, would be a 400 level course.

    (2)and fans with ideas, pencils, and paper but no instruction or direction. workshops to link us with local talent, brainstorm, hone our skills, etc. it might even be lucrative enough to support guest artists or writers doing mini-tours... esp in their own areas... along the lines of a community based art studio, but based out of/hosted/promoted by the LCS. theses are all just top of the head thoughts here.
  20.  (6217.80)
    @Professor Imagine

    In my mind, money, Web experience, and population density are the three greatest factors as to why the things you mention don't happen already. Related to money: my LCS's website also blows, but they don't have the money to build a new and better site, one that has all the things you mention. Sure, they could probably get someone local to donate a few hours' time to create a Wordpress site, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a volunteer to roll out a huge site with the features you mentioned.

    But let's say they get a site like that up and running somehow. Even then, you'd have to depend on the staff of the store to run and operate all these different things, some of them quite a bit more complicated than checking and responding to emails. How many comic shops would have staff members knowledgeable enough to handle this? I don't know, but neither of the two shops in my area check their email regularly. It's an alien idea to them, getting business from the Web like that, and who knows how much effort it would take for them to adapt.

    Second, the idea of mini-workshops on comic history, production, etc. This is a matter of population density, i.e. if you live in a smaller town you're just not going to get enough people to show up. Hell, you might even have to find instructors to come in from outside the local area because there's no one nearby who's familiar with that stuff. I live in the second largest city in Georgia and I would be surprised if more than 5-10 people showed up for any workshops like that. So, you could probably get a decent crowd to show up in bigger areas like Atlanta, NYC, and so on, but I think it's going to be quite difficult everywhere else.

    I do like the idea of creating a hybrid shop that specializes in both comics and some other industry. The shops in my town survive because they also function as a used book store, so they have two totally different crowds that come in. You can't combine comics with similar industries because you'd be appealing to the same crowd. I don't know what the right answer is, but something like a comic and music shop with a coffee bar mixed in would be pretty cool, or a comic, music, and video store all rolled into one.

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